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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 26th 20, 05:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:30:55 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

Most trolls nymshift often. It's one of the marks of a troll. They do it
to escape our killfiles. The troll Arlen Holder has already done it
multiple times.

But it's no big deal. It's quick and easy to killfile the new nym.


I find it illustrating that this well-known worthless piece of ****
troll simply made this up. And then the other trolls followed suit.

They're too stupid to even realize I haven't changed a thing!

Yup.
o I repeat: I didn't change a thing.

We already _knew_ these were well-known trolls
o None have _ever_ added _any_ value to this newsgroup in its history

Think about that fact.
o Not one of them has _ever_ authored a thread of any value to this ng

In the entire history of Usenet!

And yet, all they _can_ do, is fabricate a nymshift that never happened.
o Worse, they complain that this imaginary nymshift they can't deal with

Can anyone prove to be more moronic than these well-known trolls just did?
o And then you have the moron Frank Slootweg essentially high fiving them.

Just as he does with Snit.

Roger Blake
o Path: doubletreewisp!news.alt.net!xmission!news.snarked. org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.c om!news.iecc.com!suck
o From: Roger Blake
o Message-ID:
o Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 00:48:25 -0000 (UTC)

Bob Eager
o Path: doubletreewisp!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
o From: Bob Eager
o Message-ID:
o Date: 26 Nov 2020 02:28:32 GMT

Ken Blake
o Path: doubletreewisp!news.mixmin.net!weretis.net!feeder8 .news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
o From: Ken Blake
o Message-ID:
o Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:30:55 -0700
--
What's petrifying is not that these trolls exist; but that they outnumber us when we vote.
  #22  
Old November 26th 20, 07:37 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networkedprinter - have you also printed from Android? How?

Roger Blake wrote:
On 2020-11-25, Arlen Holder wrote:
HELPFUL HINT: I've been pulling up the printer menus so much that this


HELPFUL HINT: Take your stinking bullet points and shove them up your ass.

I thought I killfiled you, jerk, but apparently you engage in nymshifting
as well.


The only way to ensure you never see his posts is to use wildcards in the
kf. His name and email change regularly, but it's fairly easy to find an
appropriate filter.

No surprise there. People like you are nothing more than disgusting
filth.




  #23  
Old November 26th 20, 07:37 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 09:46:25 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

Do a google search for: printing android windows
First article:
https://www.howtogeek.com/165778/eve...one-or-tablet/
Everything You Need to Know About Printing From Your Android Phone or
Tablet


Hi Michael Logies,

I thank you very much for your purposefully helpful advice!
o Not only for me, but for _everyone_ who wishes to do the same thing.

I've been able to print - but not yet without using the Internet:
o Nor, yet, for free https://i.postimg.cc/DZJprj3b/printing08.jpg

All of us should be able to freely print from Android to our printer (IMHO)
o But I haven't yet found a solution that works given the requirements of
.... unlimited free printing on my own LAN to an Ethernet'd printer ...

You'd think that would be an _easy_ problem set to resolve...
o But it's not (or it's not yet since we haven't found a solution).

I'm still digging into the many proposed solutions I've found, so I haven't
exhausted the "easy" solutions yet though - but I have exhausted the
tutorials on the net - where I haven't found a single cite that is
"Everything you need to know about printing from Android" on your own LAN.

Bear in mind _most_ of these tutorials assume _different_ conditions
o Some use the Internet (e.g., most payware seems to be doing that)
o Some assume a CUPS server (usually on Linux, but maybe on Windows)
o Most assume Wi-Fi (and/or Wi-Fi Direct)
etc.

I haven't seen any tutorials that use the fact Windows can print to the
Ethernet'd printer (meaning Windows has the necessary printer drivers);
but that "may" be the solution (perhaps via its SMB/CIFS or CUPS server).

Notice that if the problem were easy to solve - I wouldn't be asking.

This problem may certainly turn out to be easy to solve (as many problems
are); but it's not easy to _find_ the solution to this problem on the net.

Rest assured, you can trust that I've scoured the Internet for a tutorial.

In fact, I read that exact tutorial days ago & even posted it he
o https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4/m/NsnpkXBoBwAJ

Here is a quote of my one-line summary of that specific article.
"This article pretty much says it can't be done for free without using the
Google cloud to print from your Android phone to a printer on your own LAN:
o Everything You Need to Know About Printing From Your Android Phone or Tablet
https://www.howtogeek.com/165778/everything-you-need-to-know-about-printing-from-your-android-phone-or-tablet/

Bear in mind we can _easily_ solve the problem by relaxing the constraints:
a. If we want to _pay_ for printing, that will work
b. If we want to use the cloud for printing, that will work
c. If we purchase a new Wi-Fi printer, that will work

But I'm trying to find a solution that works for an Ethernet'd printer.
o Keeping everything on my own LAN, and for free

In summary, nobody yet seems to have solved this problem and documented the
solution that I can find - although I can't imagine that almost anyone with
Android and an Ethernet'd printer wouldn't _benefit_ from the solution.

Since I need to dig deeper, I have to figure out _how_ printing actually
works, e.g., does Android need the printer drivers or not?

And why do we need something called a "printer server" anyway?

If people on this newsgroup know how printing normally works, that would be
helpful because then I'd know better where to focus on solving the
problems.

Is this "printer flow" correct, for example, for Windows?
1. The document to be printed is open in an editor on Windows.
2. The editor's "File Print" sends the file to a "printer driver"
(what format is that in? I don't know.)
3. The printer driver reassembles the format into a printer format.
4. The printer driver sends that printer-format-file over the LAN
(the network is just a printer IP address, and a port, I guess???)
5. The printer prints

Notice I don't mention a "print server" in that process; but everything I
read on Linux solutions seems to require a "CUPS print server"????

So is _this_ how printing works on Linux?
1. The document is open in an editor on Linux
2. That editor has a "file print" which sends it to a CUPS server???
3. The CUPS server acts as a universal printer driver????
4. The CUPS server sends a printer-format file to the printer over the LAN
(the network is just the printer IP address and port 631 for CUPS???)

Note that I bring up Linux simply because Android is kind of sort of Linux.
o https://i.postimg.cc/6qRSK6WY/printing11.jpg

These linx-based solutions all seem to use port 631 for some reason:
o https://i.postimg.cc/9fMnMYX4/printing12.jpg

Unfortunately, I never needed to understand the print process on Windows
(or Linux) simply because it just worked with a printer driver.

But if I'm going to be the first person to solve this problem (that we know
of), then I'm gonna have to figure out where exactly the problem lies.
a. In the printer driver?
b. In the printer server?
c. On the network?

Dunno yet.
o Does anyone?

  #24  
Old November 26th 20, 07:42 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Alan Baker[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - haveyou also printed from Android? How?

On 2020-11-26 8:59 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 06:30:55 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

Most trolls nymshift often. It's one of the marks of a troll. They do it
to escape our killfiles. The troll Arlen Holder has already done it
multiple times.

But it's no big deal. It's quick and easy to killfile the new nym.


I find it illustrating that this well-known worthless piece of ****
troll simply made this up. And then the other trolls followed suit.

They're too stupid to even realize I haven't changed a thing!

Arlen Holder
Arlen Holder
Arlen Holder
Arlen H. Holder
Arlen_Holder
arlen michael holder
arlen holder
Arlen G. Holder
Arlen George Holder
Arlen _ Holder
Arlen G. Holder
Arlen _G_ Holder
Arlen Holder
Arlen Holder
Arlen Holder
Arlen Holder
  #25  
Old November 27th 20, 12:00 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 18:37:09 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

The only way to ensure you never see his posts is to use wildcards in the
kf. His name and email change regularly, but it's fairly easy to find an
appropriate filter.


Jesus Christ, Chris.

There's no love lost between you and me as I consider you an utter moron.
o You know this - as you get your head handed to you - you're that stupid.

Even so ... *how _stupid_ would you have to be to _miss_ my posts*?
o If it takes more than seconds to figure out my posts, you're an idiot.

Besides, they completely fabricated the whole thing anyway...
o As I haven't changed a damn thing.

Nothing.

Funny actually...
1. One sock fabricates a change that never happened...
2. And then whines that he can't filter out that which didn't change...
3. Then he brings in his next sock to complain of the same inability...

How freakin' stupid can these utter morons prove to be?
o Are they having a contest of who's even dumber than Alan Baker is?

Is it even possible for them to prove to be dumber than he?
  #26  
Old November 28th 20, 09:47 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 10:57:56 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

What I will do, since your point is valid, is STOP updating this thread,
where the solution will be found in the Android newsgroup instead.
o How do you print from Android to your home networked printer on your LAN?
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4


SOLVED.

As usual, we almost never, if ever, fail to do what we need to do.
o For free, with unlimited printing, on our own LAN, sans the cloud!

The full solution is in the referenced thread:
o How do you print from Android to your home networked printer on your LAN?
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4

That solution involved setting up a free "print service", and an additional
free "print renderer" (which we can sort of refer to as a 'printer driver'
perhaps). In addition, it took judicious trial & error to get the settings
just right, as any one setting affected other settings, so I apologize it
took a few days to solve this problem.

To my credit, nowhere on the entire Internet have I or anyone who posted
found this solution documented (which is often the case when highly
marketed scam solutions abound, as they do with most printer apps it seems)
and when that's coupled with older equipment (my HPLJ2100TN printer is not
a Wi-Fi printer, for example, nor Mopria certified, although all those
Mopria apps turned out to be scams, IMHO, given my Android 10 comes with a
Mopria print service by default).

I don't profess to know exactly the flow, but it's certainly working, where
I've only tested printing of PDF files so far, just to keep things simple.

The general flow of data is:
a. Send the PDF file to the print renderer to be bitmapped
o Let's Print PDF, by BlackSpruce [free, ad free, gsf independent]
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.mupdf

b. Send the resulting bitmap to be output as PCL-5 to the print server
o Let's Print Droid, by BlackSpruce [free, ad free, gsf independent]
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.lpd

Please note that there are gory details in the Android thread, so consider
this simply a courtesy summary because it turned out there was no need to
get the Windows 10 machine involved.

One key way though that Windows users can help is to explain why there is
no such thing as a "printer driver" on Android, and what the "printer
server" actually does (by way of contrast to how Windows prints & how
Android prints given the same LAN and printer setup).
--
We almost never, if ever, fail to solve even our toughest problems
using unlimited, unrestricted freeware, and never do we need the cloud.
  #27  
Old November 28th 20, 09:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 14:08:15 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

the help of my phone (Xiaomi Mi 8) tells me, that for printing it has
to be a Wifi printer. My printer are Wifi-capable, so I have no
problem printing to them from Android.


Hi Michael Logies,

I very much appreciate your kind volunteer advice, as Usenet is how we,
together, solve problems, given none of us are trained in this stuff.

And none of us are paid to help each other.
o Worse, even if we were... we're all amateurs at printing technology

At least I am... (when things just work, we don't learn anything)

Hence Usenet is how we solve things, and, better yet, how we disseminate
the solutions, since we can then help everyone else with the same issues.

Yes. You are correct that if the HP LaserJet 2100tn were a "Wi-Fi capable"
printer (either Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi Direct), then it would most likely be simple
to print from Android to that printer.

Yet, the printer is on the LAN (via Ethernet on CAT5 cable), and, to the
point of this newsgroup, it prints just fine from Windows.

Interestingly, Windows needs something called a "printer driver".
o I don't know why Android doesn't seem to use printer drivers

What's confusing to me is that I never even once had thought about how
Android printing must be completely different (in some way) than Windows
printing.
a. In Windows, you install a printer driver for each printer
b. On Android, it doesn't seem to work that way (at least AFAICT)

As I understand, the printer
and the device have to support Cups, the linux standard way of
printing. Because Android is a Linux flavor, Cups is integrated. And
modern printer also support Cups.


I must openly admit that I only recently looked up what CUPS means, as, on
Android, they do have a CUPS "print service" that I installed.
o https://i.postimg.cc/6qRSK6WY/printing11.jpg

But that requires, apparently, a "CUPS Print Server" which I don't have:
o https://i.postimg.cc/9fMnMYX4/printing12.jpg

I'm very confused why Windows doesn't seem to need a "print server"
o Yet, Android seems to need a "print server"

Windows just needs a "printer driver".
o Yet Android doesn't even use printer drivers.

It's confusing to me _how_ printing actually works when it doesn't work.

If your printer does not support Cups, I would print to a pdf on
Android, transfer it to the windows machine and print it from there to
the Windows printer.


Actually, early this morning, I found a solution that works perfectly.
o It's still "magic" _how_ it works (I need help on that); but it works!

1. On Android, I installed a "print server" which outputs PDF level 1.3
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.lpd
2. But my printer doesn't accept PDF - my printer wants PCL-5 instead
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-2100-printer-series/25469/model/14918
3. So I added a muPDF "faux printer driver" to "render" the PDF to a bitmap
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.mupdf

Somehow, the _combination_ (with judicious settings applied) converts the
PDF to a bitmap and by some magic, then to PCL-5, which is then sent to the
printer via the Android "print server".
o https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4/m/qnuazdahCAAJ

I do not profess nor pretend to know _how_ it works; but it works.
o I must say this is documented NOWHERE on the entire Internet (AFAICT).

So I may be the first person on the planet who has documented it here.
o Where it took hours of trial & error (particularly on the many settings)

Now that it works, I need someone to help EXPLAIN _how_ it is working
o Because at this point, it's just "print magic" to me that it's working

Especially since all the other solutions I tried turned out to be scams
o Or cloud services, or watermarked crippleware, or bogus in some way

In summary, I solved the problem set of printing from Android
o For free, ad free, gsf-free, google free, Windows-free, Linux-free
o Over the Wi-Fi LAN
o To a non-Wi-Fi Ethernet'd HP LJ 2100tn printer (built in 1999)
o Keeping everything on the LAN (i.e., no cloud involved)
o For unlimited printing (sans prevalent watermarking crippleware)
o From any Android device that I want at any time I want
o As long as both the Android device & the printer are on the same subnet

How it works is what I want to know, where I think the file conversions are
o PDF on Android to bitmap on Android to PCL-5 on Android to the printer

What I need help with is understanding why printing from Windows is easy
o And yet, printing from Android to the same printer is not

Why, for example, does Windows use a "printer driver" but Android does not?
o Why, for example, does Android use a "print server" but Windows does not?
--
On Usenet we can solve problems that nobody else seems to have resolved.
  #28  
Old November 29th 20, 03:15 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 09:22:17 GMT, AnthonyL wrote:

Just did a nice helpful reply - actually I think there are one or two
clues that may have helped - then saw the other thread in which you've
solved it.


Hi AnthonyL,

I thank you and appreciate your purposefully helpful advice.
o All of us are volunteers - we pitch in together to help each other

As you noted, printing has gotten easier over time, at least from Windows &
Linux it has, where Linux (with CUPS) was even easier than Windows years
ago; but both are seamless nowadays (although Windows drivers are a PITA
when HP no longer supplies them on their web site, & neither does Win10):
o Tutorial for the EASIEST (maybe only?) way to install a problematic legacy printer such as the HP LaserJet 2100 on Windows 10 current versions
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/Qb-fXNOH_8g

Also as you noted, the only requirement for the printer "should" be that
it's on the LAN (no matter _how_ it's hooked up to that LAN subnet).

(1) Cloud solutions
Like you, I found out a lot of the highly marketed solutions require the
cloud, which is, I think, this data flow (I'm not fully sure though)
a. You press a print button which sends your document to a server
b. That server renders that document in the proper format (e.g., PCL-5)
c. That server sends the rendered results (e.g., PCL-5) back to you
d. And then your app sends that PCL-5 to the printer over your LAN

(2) Local PDF solutions
I also found a bunch of so-called "local" solutions, which didn't render
all that much it seems; they just send the PDF directly to the printer,
which would work fine (I guess) for a printer that directly accepts PDF.

(3) OEM Brand-name solutions (e.g., HP, Epsom, Brother, etc.)
I tried the OEM HP-branded solution, but it simply failed for whatever
reason. It only had the choice of Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi direct, so I suspect that
it failed simply because it was designed for a Wi-Fi enabled printer only.

(4) Mopria solutions
I tried a bunch of these until I realized that they're _all_ scams
(AFAICT), since Android _already_ comes, native, with a "Mopria" print
server (as its default print server). Even so, they can't work, I think,
simply because my printer, built in 1999, isn't Mopria compliant.

(5) CUPS Server solutions
I only halfheartedly tried the "CUPS Server" solutions, in that I installed
them on my phone; but they seem to require a cups server somewhere, where I
couldn't find CUPS software for Windows (I found it for Linux). While I
dual boot, it's more often in Windows than it's in Linux, so that's not a
good solution for me unless it was the only way to do it (and it wasn't).

(6) Windows SMB shares solutions
I contacted the Windows newsgroup asking for sharing solutions, but none
were forthcoming, and, besides, it turns out I didn't need to go this far
(although I would have had I not found another solution). It's strange
though, that Windows 10 prints just fine, and Android is so difficult, but,
if you were to ask me today, I could get you up and running in minutes just
because I now know how to do it and I didn't know then.

(7) Windows USB shares solutions
As with the SMB shares, I didn't explore directly connected computers,
although others who posted to the thread claimed they work just fine.

(8) There was only one solution (so far) that actually worked!
This solution turned out to be, as many tend to be, devilishly simple!
o Note: I almost never fail, if ever, in solving technical problems.

*How to print from Android to an Ethernet-only HP PCL-5 printer on your LAN*
a. On Android, I installed a "print server" which outputs PDF level 1.3
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.lpd
b. But my printer doesn't accept PDF - my printer wants PCL-5 instead
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-2100-printer-series/25469/model/14918
c. So I added a muPDF "faux printer driver" to "render" the PDF to a bitmap
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.mupdf

Somehow, the _combination_ (with judicious settings applied) converts the
PDF to a bitmap and by some magic, then to PCL-5, which is then sent to the
printer via the Android "print server".
o https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4/m/qnuazdahCAAJ

I do not profess nor pretend to know _how_ it works; but it works.
o I must say this is documented NOWHERE on the entire Internet (AFAICT).

Since the main purpose of my posts once a problem is resolved is to
leverage that solution to others so that they don't have to go through the
hell I did, here are, physically, the steps that will solve this problem.

A. If necessary, figure out your printer's IP address on your LAN:
o Printer's IP address, by Alex Trishan
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.periphs.printers/c/Y-b186tFKTs

B. Test that the Android device can connect to the printer's IP address:
AndroidTermux: ping 192.168.1.20

C. Determine if your printer can support PDF level 1.3
Note: I don't know programmatically how to determine this information,
but if you try to print from Let's Print Droid, it will pretty much
tell you that it needs Let's Print PDF in order to print PCL-5.

D. If your printer can't support PDF level 1.3 directly, then install
this "faux printer driver" which renders PDFs into bitmaps (I think):
o Let's Print PDF, by BlackSpruce (note it uses muPDF code)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.mupdf
Note: As always, this APK is free, ad free, cloud free, & google free.

E. Then install the companion "Let's Print Droid" print server APK
o Let's Print Droid, by BlackSpruce
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackspruce.lpd
Note: As always, this APK is free, ad free, cloud free, & google free.

As a side note, I don't use Google Play as I don't ever use Google
products if I don't have to; so I use the Aurora Store, which is better.

F. After installing both programs, you have to also know a few more tricks
in terms of setting up the Let's Print Droid "print service".

I only found out these tricks by pure trial and error; so not only
is there likely a better way, but some of the tricks may be wrong.

a. The first is to disable Apple Bonjour mDNS scanning
(it simply doesn't work and just wastes your time overall)
b. Another is you need to "manually configure" the printer in LPD
(where I hit upon the settings below by almost sheer trial & error)
Printer Name: HP LJ 2100 tn == this isn't critical
Protocol: RAW - Jet Direct == there are 13 protocols to choose from
IP Address/Computer Name: 192.168.0.20 == it's a static IP address
Port Number: 9100 == this was the default, so I kept it that way
Queue/Share/Dir Name: DROID == this was the default, which I kept
Page Description Language: PCL - HP-PCL5 Black/White == 8 choices
c. You need to make sure Let's Print Droid is the _only_ print server
turned on in the Android Settings "Print Service" menu
(which you can easily make a shortcut to if you follow this thread)
o Creating quick-access shortcuts to any Android or App setting page
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/_1oTdgCIpkc

Note: The "trial and error" choices for the "protocol" setting above a
o LPR - Line Printer Remote
o RAW - Jet Direct
o SMB - Windows Shared Printer
o GCP - Google Cloud Print
o IPP - IPP/CUPS print server
o IPPS - IPP/CUPS SSL server
o HTTP - Web Server POST
o HTTPS - encrypted POST
o FILE - CIFS/SMB File drop
o FTP - File Transfer
o FTPS - File Transfer SSL
o SHARE - Share PDF with another app
o VIEW - View PDL with another app

Note: These are the trial & error Page Description Language (PDL) choices:
o RAW - image files not rendered to PDL
o Jpeg Image
o PCL - HP-PCL5 Black/White
o PCL-C - HP-PCL5-C Colour PCL
o PS - Postscript
o PDF - Portable Document Format
o PCL-XL - HP PCL 6 colour,b/w
o URF - Apple AirPrint Universal Raster

While there may be other settings that will likewise work, those are what
worked first for me given my Ethernet'd HP LaserJet 2100tn printer which is
connected by CAT5 cable directly to the SOHO router.

Note: I haven't yet tested anything but PDF files as I wanted to keep the
problem set as simple as possible while I'm setting it up & testing.

The printing process that worked first after the setup above was:
1. Tap the homescreen "Let's Print Droid" icon (which I renamed LPD)
2. Inside the "Let's Print Droid" app, tap the "Print A File" icon
3. In the resulting file browser navigate to your PDF file
4. That brings up not the PDF file, but the default print settings
5. Keep or change the print settings as desired, & press [Continue]

That's it.
o Every page of your PDF file to be printed will be rendered on your phone.
o Once all pages are rendered, they will then be sent to the printer
o Note that a huge PDF will consume a lot of your phone's memory
(My 64GB $100 Moto G7 has 4GB of memory so it didn't flinch yet.)

Key technical issues which remain to be resolved:
a. It would be nice to eliminate the Let's Print PDF renderer if possible
(This will likely take trial & error on the protocol settings.)
b. But mainly I need help from experts in figuring out what's going on!
(I need to better understand what's actually happening when I print.)
c. Is either of these two flows what is actually happening to the data?
PDF - LetsPrintPDF - bitmap - LetsPrintDroid - PCL5 - printer
PDF - LetsPrintPDF - bitmap - PCL5 - LetsPrintDroid - printer

See also this Google Group, apparently, for the Let's Print Droid app:
o https://groups.google.com/g/lets-print-droid
--
As always, please improve so all benefit from every action we take.
  #29  
Old November 29th 20, 11:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 14:59:21 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:

if your printer is modern, it has a CUPS server included,
the CUPS client ist on Android.


Hi Michael Logies,

Thank you for your purposefully helpful advice on the CUPS process
o None of us are paid to help each other so I appreciate your help.

You help out of your heart and that's what is great about Usenet!

THANK YOU for being the first to explain _how_ the CUPS process works!
o Almost all debugging _requires_ knowledge of _how_ the system works.

I had tried CUPS, and failed, but I didn't even know _how_ it worked!
o Thank you for explaining that process for us all.

If the CUPS client is on Android, then I _already_ have that installed.
o https://i.postimg.cc/PxdDh7Sv/printing03.jpg

In fact, a CUPS client was the second approach I had tried (after Mopria):
o https://i.postimg.cc/xdvmwQ3S/printing02.jpg

However, based on my search results, CUPS "seemed" to only reside on Linux
which is fine except my dual-boot desktops are mostly on Windows, and,
worse, I tried like hell to find a CUPS port to Windows.
o I found something for Windows called CUPSS but it seemed a dead end.

So I failed with CUPS; but if I had a step-by-step tutorial...
o I might not have failed (likewise if the CUPS setup were more intuitive).

The CUPS client always converts to PDF or
forwards a PDF to the CUPS server which converts it for the printer
(like a driver on Windows) for its printing.


Thank you for _explaining_ what the heck CUPS does as I read the Wikipedia
& still didn't understand in the least how it applied to Android printing.

Unfortunately, when I tried using CUPS, I could find no Android tutorial:
o https://i.postimg.cc/6qRSK6WY/printing11.jpg

So when it got to this stage, I had no server to give the setup form:
o https://i.postimg.cc/9fMnMYX4/printing12.jpg

It needs a serverort of the format:
o http://server.tld:631/printers/Print...

Certainly I "guessed" and gave it the printer's IP address:
o http://192.168.0.20:631

But that failed.
o And I gave up on CUPS as I didn't have any step-by-step tutorials.

Nor did I even understand what I was doing.
o Up until now, printing has "just worked"; and then you learn nothing.

If the printer supports printing PDF natively, the CUPS server has
not to convert. I took my wisdom from:
https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/CUPS/ Funktionsweise von CUPS


My printer is a typical Hewlett Packard LaserJet 2100tn built in 1999:
o I really do not know what it supports, but I "think" it's only PCL-5.
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/bpl13210

o I don't see any mention of CUPS or PDF on its official web page:
o https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-2100-printer-series/25469/model/14918

I'm very confused why Windows doesn't seem to need a "print server"
o Yet, Android seems to need a "print server"


The situation on Window is similiar, I think. You have a print job
from a client, which has to be converted in a way, the printer
understands. This is done by the printing driver for Windows.


Thank you for explaining _how_ the printing process works on Windows
o As I never needed to understand it until now (since Windows "just works")

Is this a correct data flow based on what you are trying to advise me?
1. The Windows application (eg MS Word) opens the file in a native format
2. Word "File Print" sends the native format file to the "printer driver"
3. The printer driver receives "native format" & outputs "printer format"
(which, for my HP LaserJet 2100tn appears to be "PCL-5")
4. The printer driver sends that PCL-5 to the printer IP at 192.168.0.20
(I have no idea which port as a port scan shows only port 80 open.)
5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL-5 format

Is that the correct data flow in a typical Windows printing situation?
o If so, that printer driver is doing a _lot_ of work as it needs to know
a zillion native formats (e.g., MS Word, Irfanview image, VIM text, etc.)

On CUPS it is more standardized. If a printer understands PDF,
no conversion by a the CUPS server is needed.


Half of my problem is I don't understand how printing is supposed to work
o That can be overcome with a step-by-step tutorial - but there are none

So it behooves me to _understand_ what you're trying to impart to me!]

Assuming that the printer can "understand" the PDF format...
o Is this how an Android print to that printer is "supposed" to work?
1. The Android editing app reads the file in a native format (e.g., JPEG)
2. The app's "File Print" sends native format to its "CUPS client"
3. The Android CUPS client converts that native (eg JPEG) format to PDF
4. That CUPS client forwards that PDF to the printer at 192.168.1.20:????
5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PDF format

I do not profess nor pretend to know _how_ it works; but it works.


PCL-5 is another standard (from HP), like PDF. If Android generates a
PCL output, your printer accepts it as a PCL input.


Given I haven't seen any evidence my HP LJ2100tn supports PDF, I think I
_must_ get Android to output PCL, which, so far, I have been able to attain
only with the combination of two companion programs, where I still need to
_understand_ the data flow as it's not yet working perfectly:

I "think" this is the data flow, but I'm not at all sure that it is:
1. The LetsPrintDroid "print server" reads native format (e.g., PNG)
2. That print server converts that native format (eg PNG) to PCL-5 format
3. It then sends the resulting PCL-5 to the printer 192.168.0.20:?
4. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL format

For PDF files, for whatever reason, we need to add an Android intermediary:
1. The LetsPrintDroid "print server" reads native format (e.g., PDF)
2. That print server can't convert that native format (eg PDF) to PCL-5
3. So it sends the PDF to "LetsPrintPDF" which sends back a "bitmap"
4. The LetsPrintDroid print server" converts that bitmap to PCL-5 format
5. LetsPrintDroid then sends the PCL-5 to the printer at 192.168.0.20:?
6. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL format

Note: Any of that can be wrong; it's what I "think" the data flow is.
Note: LetsPrintPDF is a PDF viewer (also image viewer) on its own.

What I need help with is understanding why printing from Windows is easy
o And yet, printing from Android to the same printer is not


If your old windows printer does not support PDF or CUPS, it does not
work with Linux/Android out of the box. It`s simple.


As far as I can tell, the HP LJ 2100tn, built in 1999, doesn't support
either CUPS or PDF; but it does have something called "Jet Direct", which
seems to accept something called "RAW" but I can't figure out what that is.
o What is JetDirect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetDirect

All I can figure out about "JetDirect" is that it's an Ethernet "NIC".
o It's what allows me to connect the printer to the SOHO router by CAT5.

On terminology, I see JetDirect somehow related to "print server" based on:
o HP LaserJet - Printers that can use HP Jetdirect print servers
https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04763513

But I'm not at all sure what a "print server" even is.
o Nor if my printer having a JetDirect card makes it a "print server".

What is a print server anyway? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Print_server
o I looked it up and it seems to be unnecessary for a single printer.
https://rjyoung.com/blog/managed-it-services/what-you-need-to-know-about-a-print-server-setup/

Years ago hardware for Postscript/PDF-rendering was too expensive to
integrate in every printer. So it was done in software on the Windows
machine, which converts e. g. PDFs to GDI for the GDI driver of the
printer. Such printers are called "GDI printers":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphi...e#GDI_printers

The better ones supported at least PCL, too.
But today every new printer should support CUPS/PDF.


What I desire is to know the normal data flow for an Ethernet'd printer.
o From Windows (since it just works), and,
o From Android (since it needs to be debugged).
--
When we pool our knowledge, all of us can learn from each other.

  #30  
Old November 30th 20, 01:46 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows,comp.periphs.printers
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 09:47:15 -0000, wasbit wrote:

the help of my phone (Xiaomi Mi 8) tells me, that for printing it has
to be a Wifi printer. My printer are Wifi-capable, so I have no
problem printing to them from Android.


I would suggest that means the phone needs to connect to the router via
wifi.


Hi wasbit,

The funny thing about doing something for the first time that nobody has
been successful at (as far as I can tell) even as it's a trivially simple
problem set - you would think - is that I end up needing to understand the
printing data flow - which I never bothered to try to grasp before.
o I could even turn my brain off if I could find a step-by-step tutorial.

Regarding Wi-Fi (or Wi-Fi Direct?) printing, I'm not sure if that means the
Android device connects to the printer via a subnet on the LAN or if that
means the Android 10 device connects to the Wi-Fi printer directly via the
Wi-Fi printer's own Access Point. Do you know which it is?

On that note, I'm sure printing would be a lot easier if the printer had an
access point of its own which the Android 10 phone could simply connect to.

But the HP LaserJet 2100tn was built in 1999 where it only has Ethernet.
o https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-2100-printer-series/25469/model/14918
Note: I think the "tn" means it has the "JetDirect/Raw" Ethernet NIC.

Paradoxically, the Android 10 "Help" that Michael Logies speaks of "looks"
good upon first inspection - in fact - it looks "very good" at first glance
o https://i.postimg.cc/PxdDh7Sv/printing03.jpg

But, notice in this screenshot there's _nothing_ in the help for Ethernet!
o https://i.postimg.cc/pTkFdBSG/printing04.jpg

It's as if Android 10 isn't designed to do something that Windows 10 has no
problem doing, which is to print to a printer on the same subnet connected
via Ethernet (e.g., it's just a computer with IP address192.168.0.20ort).

What's also interesting is that "cloud printing" has no problem printing to
the printer, which kind of sort of seems to imply that the network isn't
really the problem. Or at least I think that's what that fact implies.
o https://www.google.com/cloudprint/learn/

While anyone who knows me knows that I abhor using the cloud just to go
from one computer on my subnet to another computer on my subnet, but what's
interesting is that when I tested out cloud printing, it just worked.
o I tested ZenoFX "PrintBot" & "LocalBot", both of which are crippleware
PrintBot https://zenofx.com/printbot/

When I tested that "cloud" solution, it worked the very first time.
o Seamlessly (or so it seemed).

But how?
o How does cloud printing work anyway?

I'm not sure what the "data flow" is for cloud printing, but for sure, the
server-on-the-cloud is converting the native file format to the native
printer format (which is PCL-5 in the case of my Ethernet'd HP LJ 2100tn).
o What is Cloud Printing? How Cloud Printing Works
https://www.uniprint.net/en/what-cloud-printing/
"cloud printing service eliminates the need for printer drivers"
"Cloud printing works with both cloud ready printers or legacy printers"

Since coming up with a step-by-step tutorial which is documented nowhere
(AFAICT) is going to take a bit of knowledge on my part, can someone check
this presumed data flow with respect to how cloud printing actually works?

Is this a correct data flow based on what you are trying to advise me?
1. The Android application (eg Acrobat) opens the file in a native format
2. Acrobat "Print" sends the native format file to a "cloud server"
3. The cloud server receives native format & outputs "printer format"
(which, for my HP LaserJet 2100tn appears to be "PCL-5")
4. The cloud server sends that PCL-5 back to the _phone_
5. The phone sends that PCL-5 to the printer IP at 192.168.0.20:?
(I have no idea which port as a port scan shows only port 80 open.)
6. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL-5 format

Or, is this what cloud printing entails by way of data flow:
1,2,3, are the same, but 4 is different, & 5 is omitted
4. The cloud server sends that PCL-5 to the _printer_ at 192.168.0.20:?
5. is omitted
6. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL-5 format

Can someone please help me figure out the data flow for cloud printing?
--
On Usenet, people can work out a solution which everyone can then use.
 




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