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#1
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
Last summer I bought a box from a very big OEM at a good price.
The box would not boot on delivery because the RAM had been installed incorrectly, so it's clear that, if the box was tested, it was tested before the RAM was installed, and now I'm wondering at what stage of assembly the boxes are supposedly tested (not at all after assembly?). I increased the memory by 50%, reinstalled the incorrectly installed memory, and added a second HDD, and the machine did boot. I haven't used the machine much, and, in particular, I haven't used the video much, but this summer I started encountering video problems while trying to upgrade Fedora. Since I had an extra video card available, I tried changing video card. My replacement video card drew too much power and the machine would not even boot. The easy conclusion was that the power supply was either malfunctioning or marginal to begin with. The computer store is a fair drive, so I bought both a replacement power supply and a very low end video card. I don't like replacing power supplies, so I tried the video card. Works like magic. I'll replace the power supply if I get around to it. I mostly run the box remotely and I don't need fancy video. As far as warranties are concerned, I can't imagine what circumstances would make a warranty repair worth my time, so I don't worry about it. Maybe when you pay for installed upgrades, you pay for an upgraded power supply. Since the memory was added to this box with no further testing, it's easy to imagine that boxes might be shipped with upgrades such that the power supply is often marginal or inadequate. Anybody have any insight? Robert. |
#2
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
Robert Myers wrote:
Last summer I bought a box from a very big OEM at a good price. The box would not boot on delivery because the RAM had been installed incorrectly, so it's clear that, if the box was tested, it was tested before the RAM was installed, and now I'm wondering at what stage of assembly the boxes are supposedly tested (not at all after assembly?). The stage where the end user tries to boot the box, at least from the vendor you used. I increased the memory by 50%, reinstalled the incorrectly installed memory, and added a second HDD, and the machine did boot. I haven't used the machine much, and, in particular, I haven't used the video much, but this summer I started encountering video problems while trying to upgrade Fedora. Since I had an extra video card available, I tried changing video card. My replacement video card drew too much power and the machine would not even boot. The easy conclusion was that the power supply was either malfunctioning or marginal to begin with. That's a fair guess, many are sized to the need as sold. That's not an unfair practice, just one which should be more obvious before it bites you. The computer store is a fair drive, so I bought both a replacement power supply and a very low end video card. I don't like replacing power supplies, so I tried the video card. Works like magic. I'll replace the power supply if I get around to it. I mostly run the box remotely and I don't need fancy video. As far as warranties are concerned, I can't imagine what circumstances would make a warranty repair worth my time, so I don't worry about it. Unless you have some reason to use a brick and mortar store, places like newegg and tigerdirect are good sources for parts. Maybe when you pay for installed upgrades, you pay for an upgraded power supply. Since the memory was added to this box with no further testing, it's easy to imagine that boxes might be shipped with upgrades such that the power supply is often marginal or inadequate. Anybody have any insight? Except for gamer machines, vendors expect the cover to stay on. The bad memory install would have gotten a complaint from me, I doubt anyone ships without a smoke test, at least not anyone remotely reputable. I bet someone saved a bit of time by not doing it as s/he should. |
#3
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
Bill Davidsen wrote:
Robert Myers wrote: snip I increased the memory by 50%, reinstalled the incorrectly installed memory, and added a second HDD, and the machine did boot. I haven't used the machine much, and, in particular, I haven't used the video much, but this summer I started encountering video problems while trying to upgrade Fedora. Since I had an extra video card available, I tried changing video card. My replacement video card drew too much power and the machine would not even boot. The easy conclusion was that the power supply was either malfunctioning or marginal to begin with. That's a fair guess, many are sized to the need as sold. That's not an unfair practice, just one which should be more obvious before it bites you. Never occurred to me that they would size the power supply to the actual sale. That means that, even if you pay outrageous prices for a subsequent OEM add-on, it might not work. I'd call that deceptive marketing. The computer store is a fair drive, so I bought both a replacement power supply and a very low end video card. I don't like replacing power supplies, so I tried the video card. Works like magic. I'll replace the power supply if I get around to it. I mostly run the box remotely and I don't need fancy video. As far as warranties are concerned, I can't imagine what circumstances would make a warranty repair worth my time, so I don't worry about it. Unless you have some reason to use a brick and mortar store, places like newegg and tigerdirect are good sources for parts. A Microcenter is reasonably close, and, if you shop carefully, their prices are hard to beat. **And**, if something goes wrong, I know how to find the store manager. Maybe when you pay for installed upgrades, you pay for an upgraded power supply. Since the memory was added to this box with no further testing, it's easy to imagine that boxes might be shipped with upgrades such that the power supply is often marginal or inadequate. Anybody have any insight? Except for gamer machines, vendors expect the cover to stay on. The bad memory install would have gotten a complaint from me, I doubt anyone ships without a smoke test, at least not anyone remotely reputable. I bet someone saved a bit of time by not doing it as s/he should. The default memory configuration for this machine was two sticks. A third stick was added to this three-channel machine as an "upgrade." DIMM slots 0 and 2 had been installed correctly and the "upgrade" was installed to slot 3. This purchase was from a *very* well-known OEM. It's really hard to imagine who, other than someone like me or a gamer, would buy such a box. The only reason I don't name the company is that I know engineers who work there. Robert. |
#4
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Robert Myers wrote in part:
Never occurred to me that they would size the power supply to the actual sale. That means that, even if you pay outrageous prices for a subsequent OEM add-on, it might not work. I'd call that deceptive marketing. It might well be. Perhaps this was a batch of computers specifically built for some megacorp refresh but which proved out to have a high defect rate -- either as RAM installation or PSU quality. It was subsequently rejected and dumped on the resale market where you bought it cheaply. They ought to have been sold as "debranded", but perhaps someone was asleep at bigOEM. Or a disobedient reseller. The Shenzhen suicides and subsequent salary doubling do not indicate high-quality. -- Robert |
#5
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
Robert Redelmeier wrote:
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Robert Myers wrote in part: Never occurred to me that they would size the power supply to the actual sale. That means that, even if you pay outrageous prices for a subsequent OEM add-on, it might not work. I'd call that deceptive marketing. It might well be. Perhaps this was a batch of computers specifically built for some megacorp refresh but which proved out to have a high defect rate -- either as RAM installation or PSU quality. It was subsequently rejected and dumped on the resale market where you bought it cheaply. They ought to have been sold as "debranded", but perhaps someone was asleep at bigOEM. Or a disobedient reseller. Not a reseller. Direct purchase from the OEM. Your thought that my deal might have been the result of a messed up corporate order would explain some weird things. For example, why would anyone put two 2Gb memory sticks in a three-channel box to begin with? The boxes don't make much sense for a big corporate purchase, but maybe they weren't the right boxes to begin with. The order was for a more normal corporate machine with 4Gb of memory and a core 2 dual processor. 4Gb was stuck into the wrong boxes and the boxes were tested before someone said oops. Test the memory, tell your guys to stick it into the boxes and offer a special deal. Who knows. The extra stick of memory seems obviously to have been stuck in. Someone who knew to skip slot 1 would also know to skip slot 3. Robert. |
#6
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
Robert Myers wrote:
Bill Davidsen wrote: Robert Myers wrote: snip I increased the memory by 50%, reinstalled the incorrectly installed memory, and added a second HDD, and the machine did boot. I haven't used the machine much, and, in particular, I haven't used the video much, but this summer I started encountering video problems while trying to upgrade Fedora. Since I had an extra video card available, I tried changing video card. My replacement video card drew too much power and the machine would not even boot. The easy conclusion was that the power supply was either malfunctioning or marginal to begin with. That's a fair guess, many are sized to the need as sold. That's not an unfair practice, just one which should be more obvious before it bites you. Never occurred to me that they would size the power supply to the actual sale. That means that, even if you pay outrageous prices for a subsequent OEM add-on, it might not work. I'd call that deceptive marketing. The computer store is a fair drive, so I bought both a replacement power supply and a very low end video card. I don't like replacing power supplies, so I tried the video card. Works like magic. I'll replace the power supply if I get around to it. I mostly run the box remotely and I don't need fancy video. As far as warranties are concerned, I can't imagine what circumstances would make a warranty repair worth my time, so I don't worry about it. Unless you have some reason to use a brick and mortar store, places like newegg and tigerdirect are good sources for parts. A Microcenter is reasonably close, and, if you shop carefully, their prices are hard to beat. **And**, if something goes wrong, I know how to find the store manager. That qualifies as a reason for sure, didn't think "reasonably close," since you earlier said "The computer store is a fair drive," but I know what you mean, not too far to go to save a shipping cycle but far enough that you don't want to do it twice. Maybe when you pay for installed upgrades, you pay for an upgraded power supply. Since the memory was added to this box with no further testing, it's easy to imagine that boxes might be shipped with upgrades such that the power supply is often marginal or inadequate. Anybody have any insight? Except for gamer machines, vendors expect the cover to stay on. The bad memory install would have gotten a complaint from me, I doubt anyone ships without a smoke test, at least not anyone remotely reputable. I bet someone saved a bit of time by not doing it as s/he should. The default memory configuration for this machine was two sticks. A third stick was added to this three-channel machine as an "upgrade." DIMM slots 0 and 2 had been installed correctly and the "upgrade" was installed to slot 3. I would expect that to pass smoke test, then, incorrectly installed as in not full speed rather than upside down or something, I'm actually surprised that it didn't show up working on POST and only be obvious with the cover off or using dmidecode. Or whatever the Windows tool is to get the same information. This purchase was from a *very* well-known OEM. It's really hard to imagine who, other than someone like me or a gamer, would buy such a box. The only reason I don't name the company is that I know engineers who work there. Robert. |
#7
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
Bill Davidsen wrote:
Robert Myers wrote: DIMM slots 0 and 2 had been installed correctly and the "upgrade" was installed to slot 3. I would expect that to pass smoke test, then, incorrectly installed as in not full speed rather than upside down or something, I'm actually surprised that it didn't show up working on POST and only be obvious with the cover off or using dmidecode. Or whatever the Windows tool is to get the same information. I would have expected it to boot, too, but it didn't. I tried to boot before opening the machine. It's been long enough that I don't remember if it got past a power-on POST and stopped at a blank screen. Maybe that would have constituted passing a smoke test. I can understand why a tester in a hurry wouldn't want to wait for Vista to boot. Since I intended to add memory, I didn't hesitate to take the cover off to see what was going on. Making what I thought would be a correct memory install fixed the problem. Robert. |
#8
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
Robert Myers wrote:
Bill Davidsen wrote: Robert Myers wrote: DIMM slots 0 and 2 had been installed correctly and the "upgrade" was installed to slot 3. I would expect that to pass smoke test, then, incorrectly installed as in not full speed rather than upside down or something, I'm actually surprised that it didn't show up working on POST and only be obvious with the cover off or using dmidecode. Or whatever the Windows tool is to get the same information. I would have expected it to boot, too, but it didn't. I tried to boot before opening the machine. It's been long enough that I don't remember if it got past a power-on POST and stopped at a blank screen. Maybe that would have constituted passing a smoke test. I can understand why a tester in a hurry wouldn't want to wait for Vista to boot. Since I intended to add memory, I didn't hesitate to take the cover off to see what was going on. Making what I thought would be a correct memory install fixed the problem. Glad you like it, I have been thinking of a 930 for a KVM server, drop in 12GB of RAM and 4TB of cheap disk and put all the boring little 512m servers on Earth on it. |
#9
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
Bill Davidsen wrote:
Maybe when you pay for installed upgrades, you pay for an upgraded power supply. Since the memory was added to this box with no further testing, it's easy to imagine that boxes might be shipped with upgrades such that the power supply is often marginal or inadequate. Anybody have any insight? Except for gamer machines, vendors expect the cover to stay on. Nonsense. Any PC must be expected to have memory and/or PCI cards added. |
#10
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Marginal OEM Power Supply
chrisv wrote:
Bill Davidsen wrote: Maybe when you pay for installed upgrades, you pay for an upgraded power supply. Since the memory was added to this box with no further testing, it's easy to imagine that boxes might be shipped with upgrades such that the power supply is often marginal or inadequate. Anybody have any insight? Except for gamer machines, vendors expect the cover to stay on. Nonsense. Any PC must be expected to have memory and/or PCI cards added. Could you note the source of that opinion? Some where a major vendor said that? For both cost and power efficiency reasons vendors seem to sell machines where anything more than a memory upgrade puts it out of power. Add a disk, marginal, hope you can power on spun down to avoid surge. And that 200w super gaming video card? Not on the machines intended to let a casual user get on the net, or a clerical worker do data entry or update a few things using the system as a terminal. Seriously, I see stuff with 300w, even 250w power supplies, and as shipped they have 50w of headroom if the voltage stays up. Honest, lots of vendorsmaking them, and they work fine when used as intended. |
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