If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
PC occasionally freezing
I recently bought a new motherboard for my main PC and shunted others down the line
until I got rid of an old one causing problems. The motherboard originally in my main machine (ASRock Fatal1ty H370 Performance) went into the machine in my bedroom (replaced H270 Performance). But I've been getting occasional freezing on that since the change. Everything locks up and I have to hit the case reset button to reboot. Once Windows restarts, it runs with no apparent problems. The event viewer indicates ID 41, Kernel-Power, so I put a new PSU in. No change. Still getting freezing that occasionally occurs in the first 20 or 30 minutes the machine is on, never after that so far. When it happens, it tends to be either during or immediately after a procedure such as running a Windows Defender scan. Yet nothing is overheating. The board has the same CPU (including heatsink & fan) and memory modules it had when it was in my main PC and ran with no problems. Incidentally, the new and original PSUs check out fine and both run other machines flawlessly. Any ideas what could be causing these freezes other than PSU or overheating? I'm thinking an electrical connection on the motherboard could be grounding out on occasion before everything heats up properly, but that's really just a stab in the dark considering what happens and when. Larc |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
PC occasionally freezing
On 2021-04-07 2:15 p.m., Larc wrote:
I recently bought a new motherboard for my main PC and shunted others down the line until I got rid of an old one causing problems. The motherboard originally in my main machine (ASRock Fatal1ty H370 Performance) went into the machine in my bedroom (replaced H270 Performance). But I've been getting occasional freezing on that since the change. Everything locks up and I have to hit the case reset button to reboot. Once Windows restarts, it runs with no apparent problems. The event viewer indicates ID 41, Kernel-Power, so I put a new PSU in. No change. Still getting freezing that occasionally occurs in the first 20 or 30 minutes the machine is on, never after that so far. When it happens, it tends to be either during or immediately after a procedure such as running a Windows Defender scan. Yet nothing is overheating. The board has the same CPU (including heatsink & fan) and memory modules it had when it was in my main PC and ran with no problems. Incidentally, the new and original PSUs check out fine and both run other machines flawlessly. Any ideas what could be causing these freezes other than PSU or overheating? I'm thinking an electrical connection on the motherboard could be grounding out on occasion before everything heats up properly, but that's really just a stab in the dark considering what happens and when. Larc Can't think of much offhand, but you might try unplugging and reseatting all connectors including memory modules, if you haven't already done this. Rene |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
PC occasionally freezing
On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 15:54:06 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
| Can't think of much offhand, but you might try unplugging and reseatting | all connectors including memory modules, if you haven't already done this. Thanks, Rene. I've done that partially, but will redo and include connections I missed. Larc |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
PC occasionally freezing
Larc wrote:
On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 15:54:06 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: | Can't think of much offhand, but you might try unplugging and reseatting | all connectors including memory modules, if you haven't already done this. Thanks, Rene. I've done that partially, but will redo and include connections I missed. Larc Check for VRM overheat. That's the Google-provided hint. ******* Once upon a time, in a land far far away, there were VRMs. This is the VCore voltage regulator. It started as a module, but was also soldered to the motherboard. That gave it the name Voltage Regulator Down (VRD), when it was soldered down. My first one put out a measly 35W, had a single phase, and used a pretty good sized MOSFET. Back in the day, there was no feedback. Designers were worried about thermal runaway. They had to guess at what max power would be, and add a generous heatsink. This is basically open loop design. Then, more recently, power limiters were fitted. At the same time, you may have noticed the heatsinks are getting smaller and more poorly designed. The design is now closed loop, and it's because of feedback about how the VCore is running, allowed it to run burning hot. When I bought my latest board, I hadn't noticed this. I didn't even have it as a particular item to check on my checklist. It was the usual deal. Burned my finger on the heatsink when testing the board on the kitchen table. Ended up turning off turbo, as well as fitting a fan right next to the VRM cooler. In the old days, a board would not leave the factory, if a customer could burn their finger on it. Today, this seems to be OK. Some manufacturers, their "auto-overclock" is too aggressive and they're using the wrong VCore. The user is then forced to do the research, to figure out what values might better serve the board. There is a suggestion that the Kernel Power, is a report of overheat, arriving at kernel level. Adjusting BIOS conditions and taking it off "auto/auto" may allow reducing VCore heatsink below "insanely hot". Paul |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
PC occasionally freezing
On Thu, 08 Apr 2021 09:02:09 -0400, Paul wrote:
| Once upon a time, in a land far far away, there were VRMs. | | This is the VCore voltage regulator. It started as a module, | but was also soldered to the motherboard. That gave it the | name Voltage Regulator Down (VRD), when it was soldered down. | My first one put out a measly 35W, had a single phase, and | used a pretty good sized MOSFET. | | Back in the day, there was no feedback. Designers were | worried about thermal runaway. They had to guess at what | max power would be, and add a generous heatsink. This is | basically open loop design. | | Then, more recently, power limiters were fitted. At the same | time, you may have noticed the heatsinks are getting smaller | and more poorly designed. The design is now closed loop, and | it's because of feedback about how the VCore is running, | allowed it to run burning hot. | | When I bought my latest board, I hadn't noticed this. I didn't | even have it as a particular item to check on my checklist. | | It was the usual deal. Burned my finger on the heatsink | when testing the board on the kitchen table. Ended up | turning off turbo, as well as fitting a fan right next | to the VRM cooler. | | In the old days, a board would not leave the factory, if | a customer could burn their finger on it. Today, this | seems to be OK. | | Some manufacturers, their "auto-overclock" is too aggressive | and they're using the wrong VCore. The user is then forced | to do the research, to figure out what values might better | serve the board. | | There is a suggestion that the Kernel Power, is a report | of overheat, arriving at kernel level. Adjusting BIOS conditions | and taking it off "auto/auto" may allow reducing VCore heatsink | below "insanely hot". Thanks, Paul. The motherboard and CPU in question ran in my main computer for about 3 years with no problems. I didn't change BIOS settings when I moved it. Should the VCore start giving problems now when it never did before? Besides, it's an H370 that's not set up for overclocking. I could and did disable turbo boost and will give it some time to see if that helps. Freezing doesn't always occur. Larc |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
PC occasionally freezing
Larc wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2021 09:02:09 -0400, Paul wrote: | Once upon a time, in a land far far away, there were VRMs. | | This is the VCore voltage regulator. It started as a module, | but was also soldered to the motherboard. That gave it the | name Voltage Regulator Down (VRD), when it was soldered down. | My first one put out a measly 35W, had a single phase, and | used a pretty good sized MOSFET. | | Back in the day, there was no feedback. Designers were | worried about thermal runaway. They had to guess at what | max power would be, and add a generous heatsink. This is | basically open loop design. | | Then, more recently, power limiters were fitted. At the same | time, you may have noticed the heatsinks are getting smaller | and more poorly designed. The design is now closed loop, and | it's because of feedback about how the VCore is running, | allowed it to run burning hot. | | When I bought my latest board, I hadn't noticed this. I didn't | even have it as a particular item to check on my checklist. | | It was the usual deal. Burned my finger on the heatsink | when testing the board on the kitchen table. Ended up | turning off turbo, as well as fitting a fan right next | to the VRM cooler. | | In the old days, a board would not leave the factory, if | a customer could burn their finger on it. Today, this | seems to be OK. | | Some manufacturers, their "auto-overclock" is too aggressive | and they're using the wrong VCore. The user is then forced | to do the research, to figure out what values might better | serve the board. | | There is a suggestion that the Kernel Power, is a report | of overheat, arriving at kernel level. Adjusting BIOS conditions | and taking it off "auto/auto" may allow reducing VCore heatsink | below "insanely hot". Thanks, Paul. The motherboard and CPU in question ran in my main computer for about 3 years with no problems. I didn't change BIOS settings when I moved it. Should the VCore start giving problems now when it never did before? Besides, it's an H370 that's not set up for overclocking. I could and did disable turbo boost and will give it some time to see if that helps. Freezing doesn't always occur. Larc Some brands boost VCore above the recommended value, as part of their "stability program". You can see similar things on memory. For example, on a server board, maybe a memory is given "precisely 2.5V". The equivalent generation desktop board (no overclock) might be 2.65V for memory. Modern designs have more environment monitoring than designs in the past. You would need to find an inspired description for "Kernel Power", to understand what the problem is. Since the system does not freeze (totally unresponsive, no Stop Code in the log), then you know the system was sane when it logged the event, so it's some kind of environmental signal. Excessive power as recorded by a power monitor on the VCore chip, excessive temperature (harder to get, because manufacturers are cheapskates). But if Intel says in a VRM or VRD spec to "do it this way", then the feature gets added quietly. No VCore regulator company can afford to make non-compliant silicon for a big market (millions of regulators per year as a potential market). ******* When you move a system, there is a small chance of bumping a heatsink or shaking something loose, and then it does not cool properly. In years past, it was the Northbridge heatsink which was a problem. U-pins were soldered to the motherboard, but the metal was a poor choice and solder did not wet the pins properly. Dell was so impressed with the Intel design, Dell Did as they were told, used the Intel-recommended restraint. Put an electrical continuity check in, so when the U-pins pulled out, the computer would refuse to power up. They used a little ohm-metering circuit, to verify the strap had fallen off. Such are double-standards :-) Paul |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Laptop LCD not working occasionally | [email protected] | Homebuilt PC's | 1 | January 24th 12 10:21 PM |
Why is disk performance occasionally so slow? | Ian R | Storage (alternative) | 11 | May 19th 09 11:32 PM |
BIOS occasionally does not see HDD? | Joseph O'Brien | General | 5 | May 2nd 06 03:42 PM |
Please recommend a printer used only occasionally | [email protected] | Printers | 10 | November 8th 03 01:46 AM |
PC Occasionally Doesn't Boot | Buck Turgidson | General | 1 | September 14th 03 01:11 AM |