Ebuyer refund excludes shipping - Pursue or not?

I accept some fault on my part here, so I could let this go, but I
thought I'd seek other opinions first. The situation is this:

I ordered a mobo+CPU bundle 2 weeks ago and realised, the following
morning, that I could get a better combination by ordering the items
seperately. I should have checked this before hand, but I was looking at
so many combinations that I missed it.

Anyway, I cancel at around 9:30AM Monday morning (ordered Sunday
afternoon). The order is scheduled to ship Tuesday for delivery
Wednesday, so cancellation shouldn't be a problem. The site asks me to
check back in 10 minutes. When I do, the shipping date has been bumped to
that day, the cancel option greyed out and no indication of my cancel
request logged. I enote them, but the order ships that day, with no
response. I send a second enote expressing my annoyance and suggesting I
wouldn't be using them anymore.

They respond mid-Tuesday and suggest that I refuse delivery, if I no-
longer require the parts - they also state that "once we receive this it
will be refunded in full". I therefore opted to refuse delivery and let
them know the package should be on it's way back.

However, today I see on my ledger that the refund excludes shipping.
Should I complain or take the hit? I realise I f#cked them around trying
to change/cancel my order, but I wouldn't have refused delivery if they
hadn't suggested it and they did say "refunded in full", which played a
part in my final decision.


higgy.

higgy wrote:
I accept some fault on my part here, so I could let this go, but I
thought I'd seek other opinions first. The situation is this:

I ordered a mobo+CPU bundle 2 weeks ago and realised, the following
morning, that I could get a better combination by ordering the items
seperately. I should have checked this before hand, but I was looking at
so many combinations that I missed it.

Anyway, I cancel at around 9:30AM Monday morning (ordered Sunday
afternoon). The order is scheduled to ship Tuesday for delivery
Wednesday, so cancellation shouldn't be a problem. The site asks me to
check back in 10 minutes. When I do, the shipping date has been bumped to
that day, the cancel option greyed out and no indication of my cancel
request logged. I enote them, but the order ships that day, with no
response. I send a second enote expressing my annoyance and suggesting I
wouldn't be using them anymore.

They respond mid-Tuesday and suggest that I refuse delivery, if I no-
longer require the parts - they also state that "once we receive this it
will be refunded in full". I therefore opted to refuse delivery and let
them know the package should be on it's way back.

However, today I see on my ledger that the refund excludes shipping.
Should I complain or take the hit? I realise I f#cked them around trying
to change/cancel my order, but I wouldn't have refused delivery if they
hadn't suggested it and they did say "refunded in full", which played a
part in my final decision.


You possibly want uk legal /moderated for the legal answer.

They do state in their standard email that deliveries may be brought
forward.

For me, I'd write off the shipping. It isn't a lot and really it wasn't
their fault. It sounds like they refunded the money quite quickly - some
companies take months and a lot of fuss to do it. Which would have cost
more in time and trouble and lost interest than the shipping did in this
instance.

I have this idea that business is a partnership - the seller has to make
a profit to stay in business and all costs have to be reflected in
selling prices. If everyone that changes their mind makes a fuss to get
the shipping charges refunded, then it simply puts up the overhead and
hence the prices for those that get their orders right. And I suspect
that, most of the time, that's you..

--
Sue

I was just thinking how wonderful life was, when higgy
opened his gob and said:

However, today I see on my ledger that the refund excludes shipping.
Should I complain or take the hit?

You returned the goods under the Distance Selling Regs which does NOT
include reimbursement of any delivery costs.

IANAL.

--
Cheers,

Guy

** Stress - the condition brought about by having to
** resist the temptation to beat the living daylights
** out of someone who richly deserves it.

Dr Teeth wrote:
I was just thinking how wonderful life was, when higgy
opened his gob and said:

However, today I see on my ledger that the refund excludes shipping.
Should I complain or take the hit?

You returned the goods under the Distance Selling Regs which does NOT
include reimbursement of any delivery costs.

IANAL.

He seems to have cancelled before shipping was scheduled. So there
shouldn't have been any shiping costs except through ebuyer's
negligence. They also apparently said there'd be a "full" refund.

--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk
Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk)

=?UTF-8?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?= wrote:

You possibly want uk legal /moderated for the legal answer.

They do state in their standard email that deliveries may be brought
forward.

I know, but it's the bringing it forward after I hit cancel part, that
bothered me.

For me, I'd write off the shipping. It isn't a lot and really it
wasn't their fault.

I think they hold some responsibility - there's no point having a cancel
option on their site, if their system can choose to ignore it.

It sounds like they refunded the money quite quickly - some companies
take months and a lot of fuss to do it. Which would have cost more in
time and trouble and lost interest than the shipping did in this
instance.

I have this idea that business is a partnership - the seller has to
make a profit to stay in business and all costs have to be reflected
in selling prices. If everyone that changes their mind makes a fuss to
get the shipping charges refunded, then it simply puts up the overhead
and hence the prices for those that get their orders right. And I
suspect that, most of the time, that's you..

Yep, slight annoyance aside, I do accept my part in this, so overall I'm
inclined to agree. Think I'll let this one go...


higgy.

higgy wrote:
=?UTF-8?B?UGFsaW5kcuKYu21l?= wrote:


You possibly want uk legal /moderated for the legal answer.

They do state in their standard email that deliveries may be brought
forward.


I know, but it's the bringing it forward after I hit cancel part, that
bothered me.


For me, I'd write off the shipping. It isn't a lot and really it
wasn't their fault.


I think they hold some responsibility - there's no point having a cancel
option on their site, if their system can choose to ignore it.


snip

I would imagine that they have several computers and that those
computers don't exchange data in real time. There will be a lag of
several hours between one computer doing something and the others being
updated to reflect the changes.

So, when you went to the website computer, it had to interrogate the
dispatch computer to ask if the goods had gone past the point of no
return in the shipping process. At which point the website computer
update its records and showed the changed status. It would presumably
have updated automatically later, when the computer databases were
brought into synchronisation every few hours.

So, I don't think they brought it forward after you hit cancel - I think
it had already been brought forward but the dispatch computer hadn't
updated the website computer yet.

They could have explained things better. Like the website computer
telling you it was going to the dispatch computer to check - as it
didn't have up to date information stored locally.


--
Sue

On 30 Sep 2006 09:05:34 GMT, higgy wrote:

I accept some fault on my part here, so I could let this go, but I
thought I'd seek other opinions first. The situation is this:

I ordered a mobo+CPU bundle 2 weeks ago and realised, the following
morning, that I could get a better combination by ordering the items
seperately. I should have checked this before hand, but I was looking at
so many combinations that I missed it.

Anyway, I cancel at around 9:30AM Monday morning (ordered Sunday
afternoon). The order is scheduled to ship Tuesday for delivery
Wednesday, so cancellation shouldn't be a problem. The site asks me to
check back in 10 minutes. When I do, the shipping date has been bumped to
that day, the cancel option greyed out and no indication of my cancel
request logged. I enote them, but the order ships that day, with no
response. I send a second enote expressing my annoyance and suggesting I
wouldn't be using them anymore.

They respond mid-Tuesday and suggest that I refuse delivery, if I no-
longer require the parts - they also state that "once we receive this it
will be refunded in full". I therefore opted to refuse delivery and let
them know the package should be on it's way back.

However, today I see on my ledger that the refund excludes shipping.
Should I complain or take the hit? I realise I f#cked them around trying
to change/cancel my order, but I wouldn't have refused delivery if they
hadn't suggested it and they did say "refunded in full", which played a
part in my final decision.


higgy.

My purely personal opinion - they did nowt wrong so you should stand
the shipping cost.

I realise that they said "full refund" but from *their* POV, they
have.

Regards,
vj

"Mike Scott" wrote in message
...
Dr Teeth wrote:
I was just thinking how wonderful life was, when higgy
opened his gob and said:

However, today I see on my ledger that the refund excludes shipping.
Should I complain or take the hit?

You returned the goods under the Distance Selling Regs which does NOT
include reimbursement of any delivery costs.

IANAL.

He seems to have cancelled before shipping was scheduled. So there
shouldn't have been any shiping costs except through ebuyer's
negligence. They also apparently said there'd be a "full" refund.

--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk
Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk)


Hi,

I would strongly go with this opinion too.

Cancellation rights and options should exist including reimbursement of any
delivery charges to the point of dispatch (i.e. goods out of the suppliers
door) (as no charges should be levied until goods are dispatched!).

That most / many suppliers and online retailers like to streamline their
operations to their own convenience and cost benefit does not mean the
customer should cover any burden (i.e. arguing the point I would suggest
that cancellation should be possible including full refund with delivery
charge to the point at which the physical package has physically entered the
dispatch end of their operations - i.e. physically entered into shipping
crates / packs awaiting collection by a / the delivery van - i.e. when it
would now require an unreasonable effort to find the specific package out of
tens or hundreds in order to cancel it). However, what I suspect often or
actually happens is the "computer" determines that it has now entered an
"irreversible" process component (namely - the order is accepted) and
although physically the item, order and goods may be a long way off the
aforementioned physical status, the processes and systems of the supplier
make it easier for them to "pretened" or just call this "computer" status of
irreversible the same as the physical state aforementioned (i.e. if they
cared or bothered they could implement more comprehensive systems to catch
orders before reaching the point of being physically unreasonably
retrievable). The most obvious example of this is when an order is placed at
a time when they are shut and no one is there physically doing anything but
their systems can determine that the order is beyond the point of no return
with respect to cancellation in ten minutes when no one is there(!). I.e.
the "computer" (and their business systems) make determinations or decisions
that do not reflect physical realities (because this is simply easier and
cheaper for them). In law and truth they probably should be mandated / are
required to have more comprehensive systems and care more about how
cancellation rights and processes of customers are dealt with so that until
such time as the physical cancelability of an order actual matches that
mentioned above (rather than an arbitrary cut-off point determined in a
virtual environment detached from the physical reality).

I.e. it is just easier if a company has not or is not bothered to put in
these extra measures, to allow the processes to just run the blind and
ignorant / foolish course (i.e. allowing something to ship out when
obviously right up to the point even after picking and packing, but before
when a package is mixed with other orders for dispatch / outgoing, is
clearly foolish and more expensive for all concerned in time, money, etc.
[when the goods are already still in the physical building of the supplier -
it will always be cheaper and easier, if a system or process is invented /
put in place to achieve this, i.e. take those goods and reverse pack and
pick them rather than allowing a ship out and ship back routine to be
inserted in the middle [they will have to reverse pick and pack anyhow! and
probably undertake considerably more checks too than if this reverse
operation is performed before the goods leave the suppliers premise]).

Anyhoo! All good fun - especially when enough customers push the point and
get the supplier to pay for the unnecessary delivery charges (as this will
teach them to improve their processes and procedures the way that works /
talks - money and costs!).


Best wishes,




News Reader

"Palindr?me" wrote:

I would imagine that they have several computers and that those
computers don't exchange data in real time. There will be a lag of
several hours between one computer doing something and the others being
updated to reflect the changes.

So, when you went to the website computer, it had to interrogate the
dispatch computer to ask if the goods had gone past the point of no
return in the shipping process. At which point the website computer
update its records and showed the changed status. It would presumably
have updated automatically later, when the computer databases were
brought into synchronisation every few hours.

I work with enterprise software encompassing every stage from order
placement through picking, despatch and invoicing. Such a hypothetical
system as you describe would have to be written very badly indeed not to be
updateable in almost real time.

Maybe 15 or 20 years ago one system would produce a printout that might have
to be manually typed into another, or connected through some arcane bespoke
interface but in these days of XML (or even MySQL, or Access) such a lag
between backend and frontend would be unforgiveable.

TMK