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Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 4th 07, 08:30 AM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Tony[_2_]
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Posts: 600
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply

Art
You are and always will be intriguing. No way to hide from that ;-)
Tony


Arthur Entlich wrote:
Hi Richard,

It is just easier to provide US law for a number of reasons.

1) Easier to find them on line.

2) much of Canadian case law is based upon US laws that have become a
standard within industrialized countries. For instance, most of our
copyright and patent law has been adopted under conventions with the
major industrialized countries and most of that was written under US law
first. Being major trading partners, and having an elephant in our bed
means we often have to accommodate US regulation, so Canada has adopted
much of their law when it comes to trade and international issues.

3) Litigation is a US past time, and there is 10 times the population
there as in Canada, so there is bound to be much more documentation
available from the US on these issues, and many more test cases.

4) I suspect that more people on this newsgroup are living in the US
than probably the total of all other countries combined, and if not,
they still represent the majority here, especially as an english
language group. I am not suggesting anyone ignore all the other people
from other locations, and that is why I made the comments that people
from other areas should also make their voices heard in their locales.

I hope I'm less intriguing now ;-)

Art




Richard Steinfeld wrote:

Arthur, you have intrigued me. There you are in Canada, but you're
talking about American laws, providing links to them, etc.

????????

Richard


  #22  
Old September 4th 07, 09:22 AM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Mumia W.
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Posts: 6
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply

On 09/03/2007 09:30 AM, Gary Tait wrote:
Arthur Entlich wrote in news:aJOCi.120973
$rX4.16160@pd7urf2no:

Perhaps the answer is for someone to come up
with a competitive model and try to educate people to pay more for the
printers so that the ink doesn't end up the only profit engine.


I don't know how profitable it would be (I personally think that the
purchasing public are fine buying underpriced hardware and paying ongoing
costs to use it), but I though of setting up a company whose purpose is to
badge-order devices such as printers and sell them at actual fair market
value for the hardware, and selling the consumables for what they are
really worth, and not preventing 3rd party consumables.


A smarter option would be to set up a company that produces printers
that don't require bundled inks.

BTW, what do you mean by "badge-order"?

  #23  
Old September 4th 07, 11:29 AM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Arthur Entlich
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Posts: 2,229
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply

Kodak is now making, or having made, their own printer designs with
their own ink formulations. They use pigment inks, and they claim to
have lowered the prices of image printing with their business model.

They claim cost per 4x6" at about 10 cents inclusive of paper.

What does concern me is they are using the one black cartridge and one 5
color cartridge, and I have yet to get a straight answer on how they
portion the different ink colors or how the drivers are set up in terms
of the ink use. The problem with a 5 color cartridge is that if one
color runs out that's the end of that cartridge, and with light cyan and
light magenta, those often run out much sooner than the higher color
load colors.

There has been some discussion in this newsgroup about clogs, but the
number of people currently owning these units seems to be small. Also,
the only models out so far are all-in-one devices.

The black cartridges list for $10 US, color for $15 US.

If they continue in this market, it will be very interesting to see what
comes of it.

I agree about Eastman Kodak's tape (Video). Their broadcast videotape
was one of the best I used. I believe it was made for them by TDK. I
was saddened when it went off the market.

Art



Richard Steinfeld wrote:

Arthur Entlich wrote:

Although not yet available in Canada, and without comment about
reliability or quality or other issues, Kodak is trying to break the
business model currently in use, by charging more for the hardware and
lowering prices on the consumables considerably. So far they haven't
seems to make the splash I was hoping for (I don't know how they feel
about it).



I'm curious about this Kodak situation. Maybe they're moving into the
market carefully and slowly. I'm not familiar with their inkjet printers
at all. I can't think of any time that anyone here has discussed them! I
can't recall ever seeing a Kodak inkjet for sale. I understand that
they've been just rebadged machines from established manufacturers with
incompatible cartridges. Anyone know?

What kind of marketing has Kodak used already? Who sells their printers?

But in this case, these are Kodak's own machines (or made for them) that
are designed for their own ink formula.

I wonder if Kodak has been experiencing resistance from the retailers,
or de-facto threats of retaliation by the big boys in the field -- the
type of thing that has happened in the supermarket business, where
manufacturers actually have to pay the store for shelf space (!!!!), and
Ben and Jerry's was locked out by other ice cream companies, causing a
lawsuit that they won.

I know of one example, far in the past, in which Kodak was defeated
because they didn't have the right distribution chain. The product was
recording tape -- the best that I have ever used. But camera stores
aren't exactly the best place for people to buy recording tape, and
that's where it was offered. How are they getting their printers on the
shelf now?

Richard

  #24  
Old September 4th 07, 03:08 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
zakezuke
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Posts: 296
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply

On Sep 3, 11:49 pm, measekite wrote:

There is no substantial competition making a quality product. They are
protecting themselves from spending money on warranty service that is
not justified and having a fly by night damaging their reputatuon.


1) There are quality after market products available, made by major
ink manufacturers
2) Their reputation is not damaged at all, they can not by law require
their consumable as a condition of the warranty, and even so products
are locked out after the warranty period has expired.
3) How many years does a product by a given company until such time as
they are no longer considered "fly by night"


  #25  
Old September 4th 07, 03:14 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
zakezuke
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Posts: 296
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply

On Sep 4, 1:22 am, "Mumia W." paduille.4061.mumia.w
wrote:

I don't know how profitable it would be (I personally think that the
purchasing public are fine buying underpriced hardware and paying ongoing
costs to use it), but I though of setting up a company whose purpose is to
badge-order devices such as printers and sell them at actual fair market
value for the hardware, and selling the consumables for what they are
really worth, and not preventing 3rd party consumables.


A smarter option would be to set up a company that produces printers
that don't require bundled inks.

BTW, what do you mean by "badge-order"?


I believe the parent is talking about... for example Dell sells
printers, Lexmark is the OEM. Dell asks Lexmark to "badge" their
printers and ink "Dell" so Dell can sell them on their own. Often
Dell offers a free printer with computer, but that printer can only
accept "Dell" ink, it won't accept Lexmark ink due to physical
differences in the cartridges possible electronic keying.



  #26  
Old September 4th 07, 06:25 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Gary Tait
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Posts: 127
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply

Richard Steinfeld wrote in
:

I'm curious about this Kodak situation. Maybe they're moving into the
market carefully and slowly. I'm not familiar with their inkjet printers
at all. I can't think of any time that anyone here has discussed them! I
can't recall ever seeing a Kodak inkjet for sale. I understand that
they've been just rebadged machines from established manufacturers with
incompatible cartridges. Anyone know?


I don't know about the current run.
I know back in the past, they sold a line of printers based on the the HP
Thinkjet technology.

Near as I can tell, these new ones use a separate head, but a tri-color
cartridge a black text cartridge, and will be chipped.

If they use a removable head, and when they release separate colors, I'll
consider it.
  #27  
Old September 4th 07, 06:32 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Gary Tait
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Posts: 127
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply

"Mumia W." wrote in
:

BTW, what do you mean by "badge-order"?


Kinda what Sears does to order Kenmore appliances.

They order so many units manufactured with their "badge" applied to it, and
will assume all support for it, either directly, or with some agreement
with the manufacturer.
  #28  
Old September 4th 07, 06:39 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Gary Tait
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Posts: 127
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply

Barry Watzman wrote in news:46dc3c94$0$15413
:

Somewhere in the middle there should be an acceptable medium, but at
this point I don't think it's been found.


The "point" to be quite literal would be where the consumable unit would
mate with the non-comsumable device. While the printer manufacturer could
patent ink storage and feed technology in the cartridge, they however could
not prevnt 3rd party cartridge manufacturers from supplying non patent
infringing containers and chips.
  #29  
Old September 4th 07, 11:44 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
measekite
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Posts: 3,433
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply



Gary Tait wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote in news:46dc3c94$0$15413
:


Somewhere in the middle there should be an acceptable medium, but at
this point I don't think it's been found.


The "point" to be quite literal would be where the consumable unit would
mate with the non-comsumable device. While the printer manufacturer could
patent ink storage and feed technology in the cartridge, they however could
not prevnt 3rd party cartridge manufacturers from supplying non patent
infringing containers and chips.


This is America not dumbsville
  #30  
Old September 5th 07, 09:21 PM posted to comp.periphs.printers
Jerry1111
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Posts: 37
Default Epson wins litigation - aftermarket carts already in short supply

Barry Watzman wrote:
"If we want our rights as consumers to be protected ...."

The manufacturers do have some rights also. I understand not liking it,
it makes things more expensive for us as consumers. But the
manufacturers did put in huge up-front engineering effort to invent
these things, and the did get patents on their products.


Can't see the problem. Price all the products honestly.

--
Jerry1111
 




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