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#11
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Major upgrade
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:31:02 +0200, Yrrah
wrote: Rene Lamontagne : Intel i7 8700 CPU $400 Why Intel, why not an AMD Ryzen CPU? Yrrah Or a AMD3+ FX-8300 8-Core. $60 in the Chinese pull market, $70 in a US pull. They've went up, in the used market, since I bought mine (new retail hasn't dropped in price, still) for $90. The fast Ryzen octal is close enough, $300 for the faster model, and a slow one $200, although prices on the faster model has recently dropped in occasional sales to as low as $200. A new MB for the FX-8300 is a third less than the CPU. I bought two of the same model MBs for $120. Octal in one, the other this: AMD FX-Series FX-4100 Zambezi FD4100WMW4KGU Socket AM3+ 95W CPU Subtotal $24.50 Shipping Free Grand total: $24.50 Think it's from the Korean used CPU market pulls. This pull gets run harder, draws around 50-watts at peak 50% average thread usages across cores at 4GHz. Also have an Amd Phenom II X4 810 - 2.6Ghz for under $30 pulled. A backup CPU, but that's that, $200 for two working computers (2 configs for two new Mem modules, two used CPUs, and 2 new MBs). An octal core then isn't as much a luxury but actually hauls butt in the right conditions. When it doesn't, there's more inactive blank cores to look at than four. What do you get with a Ryzen ... you get non-SATA SSDs. Reminds me when I sat and watched, over a course of a year or two, Intel sitting fat and large from 386SX prices, until a likes of (pre-AMD) Texas Instruments or Cyrix came out with more suitable offerings and drastic reductions. The 386SX was effectively my first and last Intel, until my last system, recently, a quad Intel q8200 that got blown-up by a lightning strike. I'd updated that motherboard four times with Intel CPU used pulls from Ebay. And then I replaced it with AMD (AMD3+ socket version) octal. Think of it as like an option not to buy a car with $10K worth of things like $1000 worth of mandatory, four transmitting, radio battery valve stems, among accessories, when opting out from $300 MBs and CPUs. Yes, indeed, it's back to life's bleak hardships with six SATA ports and MB-chipped video for playing freeware LucasChess. It's breaking my balls. |
#12
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Major upgrade
On 04/22/2019 8:31 AM, Yrrah wrote:
Rene Lamontagne : Intel i7 8700 CPU $400 Why Intel, why not an AMD Ryzen CPU? Yrrah I haven't used an AMD CPU for many years but when I did use them they were A,OK and I am sure they are even better now, the chip sets were the reason I went to Intel, I suppose they too are much improved now. I know The Intel may cost more but I am more familiar with them and they have not given me any problems. As far as video cards My choice is AMD over Nvidia BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? Thanks, Rene |
#13
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Major upgrade
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 10:17:12 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote: I haven't used an AMD CPU for many years but when I did use them they were A,OK and I am sure they are even better now, the chip sets were the reason I went to Intel, I suppose they too are much improved now. I know The Intel may cost more but I am more familiar with them and they have not given me any problems. As far as video cards My choice is AMD over Nvidia BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? Thanks, Rene About half, if you act now, as much for an Intel at half the wattage. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-...AOSwVHFcu9l K Or roughly the same disadvantage at parity on wattage. https://slickdeals.net/f/11391847-in...-free-shipping https://slickdeals.net/f/10869331-am...bcaewof-ac-295 https://slickdeals.net/f/12946618-am...00x-300-newegg https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compar.../3937vsm340638 Better utilization of more cores in one if not both cases where that can be predetermined for suited to applicability. An octal 7 and Threadripper look to be a bad mambo on encodes. |
#14
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Major upgrade
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/22/2019 8:31 AM, Yrrah wrote: Rene Lamontagne : Intel i7 8700 CPU $400 Why Intel, why not an AMD Ryzen CPU? Yrrah I haven't used an AMD CPU for many years but when I did use them they were A,OK and I am sure they are even better now, the chip sets were the reason I went to Intel, I suppose they too are much improved now. I know The Intel may cost more but I am more familiar with them and they have not given me any problems. As far as video cards My choice is AMD over Nvidia BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? Thanks, Rene You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html # single threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHz 2,630 # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920X 2,231 # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 2,193 # $420 CDN https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html # "towing capacity" # 7zip goes faster, movie enc goes faster Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHz 15,153 # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920X 22,044 # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 16,985 # $420 CDN AMD clock*IPC cannot quite match Intel clock*IPC. That's why the single thread results are lower. AMD sometimes has a higher clock at the same price, but the IPC (Instructions Per Clock) is a bit lower, and so head-to-head single thread, AMD loses. AMD compensates by trying to use more cores. Usually on AMD, when the core count is extremely high, the bench results become confused. For example, I might expect to see a higher 7ZIP bench, with all that silicon sitting there, and the results are instead, disappointing. Then I don't know if this is Microsofts fault (scheduler), Igors fault (wrong compiler), or AMDs fault (flimsy connection to DRAM channels). Anyway, those two pages are a start, but not the entire story. There are always particular benchmark tests, where one of the players falls flat. "Single point measurements" like the above, are flawed, but they're easy to write up in a USENET post. Paul |
#15
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Major upgrade
On 04/22/2019 1:38 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 8:31 AM, Yrrah wrote: Rene Lamontagne : Â*Â* Intel i7 8700 CPUÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â *Â* $400 Why Intel, why not an AMD Ryzen CPU? Yrrah I haven't used an AMD CPU for many years but when I did use them they were A,OK and I am sure they are even better now, the chip sets were the reason I went to Intel, I suppose they too are much improved now. I know The Intel may cost more but I am more familiar with them and they have not given me any problems. As far as video cards My choice is AMD over Nvidia BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? Thanks, Rene You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.htmlÂ*Â*Â* # single threaded, highest clock Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHzÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,630Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,231Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,193Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.htmlÂ*Â* # "towing capacity" Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # 7zip goes faster, movie enc goes faster Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHzÂ*Â*Â*Â* 15,153Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920XÂ*Â*Â*Â* 22,044Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 16,985Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN AMD clock*IPC cannot quite match Intel clock*IPC. That's why the single thread results are lower. AMD sometimes has a higher clock at the same price, but the IPC (Instructions Per Clock) is a bit lower, and so head-to-head single thread, AMD loses. AMD compensates by trying to use more cores. Usually on AMD, when the core count is extremely high, the bench results become confused. For example, I might expect to see a higher 7ZIP bench, with all that silicon sitting there, and the results are instead, disappointing. Then I don't know if this is Microsofts fault (scheduler), Igors fault (wrong compiler), or AMDs fault (flimsy connection to DRAM channels). Anyway, those two pages are a start, but not the entire story. There are always particular benchmark tests, where one of the players falls flat. "Single point measurements" like the above, are flawed, but they're easy to write up in a USENET post. Â*Â* Paul Yep, when I am ready to do this I will stick to the Intel i7 8700to as it suits my purposes best. Will post back before I begin, not sure when. Rene |
#16
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Major upgrade
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote: BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html # single threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHz 2,630 # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920X 2,231 # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 2,193 # $420 CDN snip When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up, but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to happen, I went with the 8700. |
#17
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Major upgrade
On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html # single threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHz 2,630 # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920X 2,231 # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 2,193 # $420 CDN snip When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up, but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to happen, I went with the 8700. When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card later or use my existing HD 5850. Rene |
#18
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Major upgrade
On 04/22/2019 6:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.htmlÂ*Â*Â* # single threaded, highest clock Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHzÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,630Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,231Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700XÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* 2,193Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* # $420 CDN snip When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up, but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to happen, I went with the 8700. When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card later or use my existing HD 5850. Rene The computer gods must have been watching me, this morning I heard a kinda funny noise from my system so I pulled the side panel and there was my GPU fan and shroud laying on the PSU spinning merrily away. I pulled the Video card out and found the 2 little plastic posts broken off, the other 2 had never been attached from the factory. So to try and repair it properly would have meant removing the large heatsink/pipe assembly. So instead I used 2 sets of tiewraps to hold it all back together. So I guess that was the signal to get going, so tonight after doing price checking at 4 online stores as folows. Amazon.ca Memory express.ca Newegg.ca Walmart.ca I chose Amazon as being the lowest price. I ordered the following parts Asus Z390 prime Motherboard Intel i7 8700 CPU G.skill 3200 trident memory- 16GB Coolermaster hyper 212 evo cooler I did not order the video card ,as per Char jacksons post saying the CPU/GPU onboard graphics may be adequate, will give them a try first. Will post again when all parts are received. Rene |
#19
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Major upgrade
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 04/22/2019 6:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html # single threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHz 2,630 # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920X 2,231 # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 2,193 # $420 CDN snip When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up, but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to happen, I went with the 8700. When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card later or use my existing HD 5850. Rene The computer gods must have been watching me, this morning I heard a kinda funny noise from my system so I pulled the side panel and there was my GPU fan and shroud laying on the PSU spinning merrily away. I pulled the Video card out and found the 2 little plastic posts broken off, the other 2 had never been attached from the factory. So to try and repair it properly would have meant removing the large heatsink/pipe assembly. So instead I used 2 sets of tiewraps to hold it all back together. So I guess that was the signal to get going, so tonight after doing price checking at 4 online stores as folows. Amazon.ca Memory express.ca Newegg.ca Walmart.ca I chose Amazon as being the lowest price. I ordered the following parts Asus Z390 prime Motherboard Intel i7 8700 CPU G.skill 3200 trident memory- 16GB Coolermaster hyper 212 evo cooler I did not order the video card ,as per Char jacksons post saying the CPU/GPU onboard graphics may be adequate, will give them a try first. Will post again when all parts are received. Rene PRIME Z390-A $250CDN One DisplayPort on I/O plate One HDMI on I/O plate Purchase an active adapter to make a VGA signal (I own one of each, and they're "transparent") 8700 res-out Max Resolution (HDMI 1.4) 4096x2304 @ 24Hz (drop res for 60Hz...) Max Resolution (DP) 4096x2304 @ 60Hz 8700 graphics UHD 630 24 EU 192 Shaders (likely with some flavor of QuickSync video block) You didn't mention your current video card, or I'd have stuffed it into the table. https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php Intel UHD 630 1202 passmark G3D === your CPU graphics Radeon HD 4870 1382 (historical reference) GeForce GTX 1050 4688 passmark G3D (don't buy 1030, 1050 has NVenc encoder) Radeon RX 580 8447 passmark G3D Your proposal GeForce GTX 1660 11022 passmark G3D RTX generation (but with raytracing off?) Anyway, you can mine that Passmark web table for comparisons to what you've got. Paul |
#20
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Major upgrade
On 04/24/2019 12:28 AM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 6:46 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 04/22/2019 5:17 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 14:38:50 -0400, Paul wrote: Rene Lamontagne wrote: BTW what would be a Ryzen equivalent to an Intel i8700 Coffee lake? You can work this out using cpubenchmark. AMDs premise, is to give you more on multithreading, rather than have the highest clock*IPC on single threaded benches. Games need some of each. "Highest clock" for the boss thread, "Moar cores" to the extent that other parts of the game (AI, map prefetch) can be parallelized. https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html # single threaded, highest clock # The most common operations use this. Intel Core i7-8700 @ 3.20GHz 2,630 # $420 CDN AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2920X 2,231 # $800 CDN, mobo++, large socket AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 2,193 # $420 CDN snip When I was shopping a few months ago, the AMD equivalent to the Intel 8700 was indeed the Ryzen 7 2700X, which was US$280 at the time, compared to US$310 for the Intel 8700. I didn't choose the Ryzen because it doesn't have onboard graphics. A couple of the lesser Ryzens do have onboard GPU, but then they were less comparable to the 8700. Things may have changed by now. Even as recently as a few months ago, I was hearing rumors that AMD was going to add another GPU-equipped CPU to the line-up, but the concern was that they'd have to get rid of something (some number of CPU cores) to make room on the die for the GPU. Rather than waiting to see what was about to happen, I went with the 8700. When I decide to go ahead I will try the CPU graphics and see if they will be good enough for the lite gaming I do, if so That will save me about $250 CDN, if not I can get a new Video card later or use my existing HD 5850. Rene The computer gods must have been watching me, this morning I heard a kinda funny noise from my system so I pulled the side panel and there was my GPU fan and shroud laying on the PSU spinning merrily away. I pulled the Video card out and found the 2 little plastic posts broken off, the other 2 had never been attached from the factory. So to try and repair it properly would have meant removing the large heatsink/pipe assembly. So instead I used 2 sets of tiewraps to hold it all back together. So I guess that was the signal to get going, so tonight after doing price checking at 4 online stores as folows. Amazon.ca Memory express.ca Newegg.ca Walmart.ca I chose Amazon as being the lowest price. I ordered the following parts Asus Z390 prime Motherboard Intel i7 8700 CPU G.skill 3200 trident memory- 16GB Coolermaster hyper 212 evo cooler I did not order the video card ,as per Char jacksons post saying the CPU/GPU onboard graphics may be adequate, will give them a try first. Will post again when all parts are received. Rene PRIME Z390-A $250CDN One DisplayPort on I/O plate One HDMI on I/O plate Purchase an active adapter to make a VGA signal (I own one of each, and they're "transparent") 8700 res-out Max Resolution (HDMI 1.4) 4096x2304 @ 24Hz (drop res for 60Hz...) Max Resolution (DP) 4096x2304 @ 60Hz 8700 graphics UHD 630 24 EU 192 Shaders (likely with some flavor of QuickSync video block) You didn't mention your current video card, or I'd have stuffed it into the table. https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php Intel UHD 630 1202 passmark G3D === your CPU graphics Radeon HD 4870 1382 (historical reference) GeForce GTX 1050 4688 passmark G3D (don't buy 1030, 1050 has NVenc encoder) Radeon RX 580 8447 passmark G3D Your proposal GeForce GTX 1660 11022 passmark G3D RTX generation (but with raytracing off?) Anyway, you can mine that Passmark web table for comparisons to what you've got. Paul Should have mentioned Radeon HD 5850 which seems to give me passmark of 763, so the UHD 630 should be a fair amount better. I have HDMI in on my Asus MX279 27 inch IPS monitor, so I guess I shouldn't need an adaptor (I think). Rene |
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