Sempron overclocking

I'm trying to evaluate how bad these chips actually are.... Clearly
the thing to do was to buy a Barton six months ago, if your budget
doesn't stretch to an A64....

Anyway they are Thoroughbred-B processors with 166MHz fsb, which is
faster than most of the thoroughbred cores, but it's not a huge
difference. AMD's own figures show that it only makes about 4%
difference at the same clock... But, if you are buying a Sempron now
and get an nforce 400 motherboard, I guess these chips should do
200MHz fsb. Apparently the Sempron equals roughly the same as an
Athlon XP with 400 less PR. But when you overclock to 200 MHz fsb (is
this reasonable?),

you get

2300+ = 200 x 9.5 = 1.9GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2400+
2400+ = 200 x 10 = 2GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2500+ speed
2500+ = 200 x 10.5 = 2.1GHz = Athlon XP 2600+ speed
2600+ = 200 x 11 = 2.2GHz = roughly Athlon Xp 2700+

For the money, is there a better buy? And is my assumption of
overclocking FSB to 200MHz reasonable?

got a 2600+ sempron, and ur numbers look about right. i could only get to
183 fsb(2.086GHZ i think, no pci lock, lol) so you should be able to get to
2.2. although with the recent price drops, hold on to your money and get a
754 athlon64 the price difference when i did my system( couple of months
ago) was about £100($200 roughy) money i just didn't have, but if you
strech, kiss socket a bye bye.

Hope that helped
wrote in message
om...
I'm trying to evaluate how bad these chips actually are.... Clearly
the thing to do was to buy a Barton six months ago, if your budget
doesn't stretch to an A64....

Anyway they are Thoroughbred-B processors with 166MHz fsb, which is
faster than most of the thoroughbred cores, but it's not a huge
difference. AMD's own figures show that it only makes about 4%
difference at the same clock... But, if you are buying a Sempron now
and get an nforce 400 motherboard, I guess these chips should do
200MHz fsb. Apparently the Sempron equals roughly the same as an
Athlon XP with 400 less PR. But when you overclock to 200 MHz fsb (is
this reasonable?),

you get

2300+ = 200 x 9.5 = 1.9GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2400+
2400+ = 200 x 10 = 2GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2500+ speed
2500+ = 200 x 10.5 = 2.1GHz = Athlon XP 2600+ speed
2600+ = 200 x 11 = 2.2GHz = roughly Athlon Xp 2700+

For the money, is there a better buy? And is my assumption of
overclocking FSB to 200MHz reasonable?

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:47:38 -0800, thelawnet wrote:

. Apparently the Sempron equals roughly the same as an Athlon XP with 400
less PR. But when you overclock to 200 MHz fsb (is this reasonable?),

you get

2300+ = 200 x 9.5 = 1.9GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2400+
2400+ = 200 x 10 = 2GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2500+ speed
2500+ = 200 x 10.5 = 2.1GHz = Athlon XP 2600+ speed
2600+ = 200 x 11 = 2.2GHz = roughly Athlon Xp 2700+

And is my assumption of overclocking FSB to 200MHz reasonable?

Looks pretty close.

For the money, is there a better buy?

Sure. Any of the XP's, and even the Tbred B core Durons if you can't get
the FSB to 200MHz or more. All these are still available here. If your MB
doesn't support a 200MHz FSB, then the Sempron is the worst buy of all.
Even at 200MHz FSB, the Sempron 2200+ will only run 1800Mhz. Way short of
it's potential of about 2400MHz. In comparison, a Tbred B core 1700+ XP
with an 11 multiplier would run 2200Mhz. I bought a Duron 1600 and MB at
Fry's the other day for $40. Gave the board to my brother and sold his old
one with his old Duron 750 and 128M of ram for $45 on ebay. My total cost
was -$5. Put the duron in my board and set the FSB to 175 IIRC for about
2100Mhz. Not bad for $0.
Now you really want to get screwed, buy a high end socket A Sempron. Oh
..well, enough. Socket A Semprons are for suckers should be the world wide
motto.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

Wes Newell wrote in message news:pan.2005.02.18.17.40.20.817914@TAKEOUTverizo n.net...
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:47:38 -0800, thelawnet wrote:

. Apparently the Sempron equals roughly the same as an Athlon XP with 400
less PR. But when you overclock to 200 MHz fsb (is this reasonable?),

you get

2300+ = 200 x 9.5 = 1.9GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2400+
2400+ = 200 x 10 = 2GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2500+ speed
2500+ = 200 x 10.5 = 2.1GHz = Athlon XP 2600+ speed
2600+ = 200 x 11 = 2.2GHz = roughly Athlon Xp 2700+

And is my assumption of overclocking FSB to 200MHz reasonable?

Looks pretty close.

For the money, is there a better buy?

Sure. Any of the XP's, and even the Tbred B core Durons if you can't get
the FSB to 200MHz or more. All these are still available here. If your MB
doesn't support a 200MHz FSB, then the Sempron is the worst buy of all.
Even at 200MHz FSB, the Sempron 2200+ will only run 1800Mhz. Way short of
it's potential of about 2400MHz. In comparison, a Tbred B core 1700+ XP
with an 11 multiplier would run 2200Mhz. I bought a Duron 1600 and MB at
Fry's the other day for $40. Gave the board to my brother and sold his old
one with his old Duron 750 and 128M of ram for $45 on ebay. My total cost
was -$5. Put the duron in my board and set the FSB to 175 IIRC for about
2100Mhz. Not bad for $0.
Now you really want to get screwed, buy a high end socket A Sempron. Oh
.well, enough. Socket A Semprons are for suckers should be the world wide
motto.

I guess it depends on where you do your shopping.... In USA, bartons
are still relatively affordable and available I see. From Newegg, an
OEM barton 2500+ will give you an 11x multiplier for $76, plus 512k
cache. Basic heatsink, fan and thermal paste will cost about $10, so
say $86 all in.

From the same place, a *retail* sempron 2400+ is $68, with a 10x
multiplier. Roughly speaking the cache loss will cost you 1x fsb, so
effectively you are getting the equivalent of a 9x barton chip for
$68. The barton 2500+ gives you 22% more perfomance for 26% more
price. So it's not really such a good deal after all...

That's USA. Here in UK, things are much worse. Few etailers actuall
still stock the barton chips, but where they do they are premium
priced.

The cheapest barton 2500+ is £63, roughly $100 when you take off sales
tax. The Sempron 2400+ is £40 or about $63 net of sales tax.

There is a similar situation in mainland Europe in terms of
availability and price. There just isn't any value at the very bottom
end any more. To build a *new* cheap PC now, sempron is actually, in
the face of poor competition, the best choice. I checked again on
newegg, and there aren't any thoroughbred CPUs available, except for a
refurbished 2200+ at 13.5x 133 for 1.8GHz total speed. Admittedly this
would probably be a better buy than that 10x sempron (although a
little more expensive when you have added on fan & heatsink, and again
here in UK, the 2200+ goes for about 25% more than a sempron) - I
guess they will both overclock the same. But basically the bototm line
now is that new entry-level PCs right now should include Sempron
chips. Of course once you get within spitting distance of being able
to afford a s754 mboard + chip (personally I'm waiting for
availability on the Sempron 2600+ skt754), forget Socket A Sempron.

On 19 Feb 2005 02:53:48 -0800, wrote:

Wes Newell wrote in message news:pan.2005.02.18.17.40.20.817914@TAKEOUTverizo n.net...
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 01:47:38 -0800, thelawnet wrote:

. Apparently the Sempron equals roughly the same as an Athlon XP with 400
less PR. But when you overclock to 200 MHz fsb (is this reasonable?),

you get

2300+ = 200 x 9.5 = 1.9GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2400+
2400+ = 200 x 10 = 2GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2500+ speed
2500+ = 200 x 10.5 = 2.1GHz = Athlon XP 2600+ speed
2600+ = 200 x 11 = 2.2GHz = roughly Athlon Xp 2700+

And is my assumption of overclocking FSB to 200MHz reasonable?

Looks pretty close.

For the money, is there a better buy?

Sure. Any of the XP's, and even the Tbred B core Durons if you can't get
the FSB to 200MHz or more. All these are still available here. If your MB
doesn't support a 200MHz FSB, then the Sempron is the worst buy of all.
Even at 200MHz FSB, the Sempron 2200+ will only run 1800Mhz. Way short of
it's potential of about 2400MHz. In comparison, a Tbred B core 1700+ XP
with an 11 multiplier would run 2200Mhz. I bought a Duron 1600 and MB at
Fry's the other day for $40. Gave the board to my brother and sold his old
one with his old Duron 750 and 128M of ram for $45 on ebay. My total cost
was -$5. Put the duron in my board and set the FSB to 175 IIRC for about
2100Mhz. Not bad for $0.
Now you really want to get screwed, buy a high end socket A Sempron. Oh
.well, enough. Socket A Semprons are for suckers should be the world wide
motto.

I guess it depends on where you do your shopping.... In USA, bartons
are still relatively affordable and available I see. From Newegg, an
OEM barton 2500+ will give you an 11x multiplier for $76, plus 512k
cache. Basic heatsink, fan and thermal paste will cost about $10, so
say $86 all in.

From the same place, a *retail* sempron 2400+ is $68, with a 10x
multiplier. Roughly speaking the cache loss will cost you 1x fsb, so
effectively you are getting the equivalent of a 9x barton chip for
$68. The barton 2500+ gives you 22% more perfomance for 26% more
price. So it's not really such a good deal after all...

That's USA. Here in UK, things are much worse. Few etailers actuall
still stock the barton chips, but where they do they are premium
priced.

The cheapest barton 2500+ is £63, roughly $100 when you take off sales
tax. The Sempron 2400+ is £40 or about $63 net of sales tax.

The cheapest unlocked Barton is an XP-M
- runs cooler
- less voltage
- similar O/C
- a Barton is a Barton

There is a similar situation in mainland Europe in terms of
availability and price. There just isn't any value at the very bottom
end any more. To build a *new* cheap PC now, sempron is actually, in
the face of poor competition, the best choice. I checked again on
newegg, and there aren't any thoroughbred CPUs available, except for a
refurbished 2200+ at 13.5x 133 for 1.8GHz total speed. Admittedly this
would probably be a better buy than that 10x sempron (although a
little more expensive when you have added on fan & heatsink, and again
here in UK, the 2200+ goes for about 25% more than a sempron) - I
guess they will both overclock the same. But basically the bototm line
now is that new entry-level PCs right now should include Sempron
chips. Of course once you get within spitting distance of being able
to afford a s754 mboard + chip (personally I'm waiting for
availability on the Sempron 2600+ skt754), forget Socket A Sempron.

The Sempron 3100+ can clock the same or higher than the A64's 2.4GHz
without any special cooling if you choose the right MOBO.

¸ô¶ó

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:53:48 -0800, thelawnet wrote:

I guess it depends on where you do your shopping.... In USA, bartons are
still relatively affordable and available I see. From Newegg, an OEM
barton 2500+ will give you an 11x multiplier for $76, plus 512k cache.
Basic heatsink, fan and thermal paste will cost about $10, so say $86 all
in.

From the same place, a *retail* sempron 2400+ is $68, with a 10x
multiplier. Roughly speaking the cache loss will cost you 1x fsb, so
effectively you are getting the equivalent of a 9x barton chip for $68.
The barton 2500+ gives you 22% more perfomance for 26% more price. So it's
not really such a good deal after all...

First off, how do you figure a 26% increase in price?. If you check again,
There's only about 12% difference in price of 76 vs. 68. Second, the
overclocking ability of setting the FSB to 200 gives the XP 2500+ a rating
of a 3200+ XP and the Sempron 2400+ a rating of only slightly higher
than a 2400+ XP. And third, this is the closest of all the Semprons. Which
leaves me wondering why you chose it to compare and still misrepresent the
numbers. AMD marketing shill?

That's USA. Here in UK, things are much worse. Few etailers actuall
still stock the barton chips, but where they do they are premium priced.

That's too bad. But if my only socket A option was a Sempron, I'd go ahead
and replace the MB too and switch to socket 754 or 939. The Sempron 3100+
for socket 754 will ovreclock like crazy., although an A64 2800+ may be a
better buy now.


The cheapest barton 2500+ is £63, roughly $100 when you take off sales
tax. The Sempron 2400+ is £40 or about $63 net of sales tax.

Don't know what to tell you. While I've seen prices for the XP rise a
little lately, not near that much here. An XP 2500+ here can be had for
$71 shipped. A Sempron 2400+, $57. But an XP 1700+ with a higher
multiplier than the Sempron 2400+ can be had for $51 and will clock to
2200MHz with a 200MHz FSB vs 2000MHz for the Sempron. And just raise the
FSB to 166Mhz for the 1700+ and it's faster the Sempron 2400+. Like I
said, socket A Semprons suck. AMD is just playing a marketing game to get
more money for less propuct. Smart on their part I guess. Seems to have
most people buffaloed.

There is a similar situation in mainland Europe in terms of availability
and price. There just isn't any value at the very bottom end any more.
To build a *new* cheap PC now, sempron is actually, in the face of poor
competition, the best choice. I checked again on newegg, and there
aren't any thoroughbred CPUs available, except for a refurbished 2200+
at 13.5x 133 for 1.8GHz total speed.

Well, Newegg isn't the only place to buy over here. Virtually all XP
models are still available here at this time. How long that will last I
don't know, but AMD is still selling XP-M DTR cpu's at not much more than
Semprons.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...l?redir=CPT301



--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
Verizon server http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm

!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
html
head
meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"
title/title
/head
body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"
a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" "thelawnet@gmail. com/a wrote:
blockquote le.com"
type="cite"
pre wrap=""I'm trying to evaluate how bad these chips actually are.... Clearly
the thing to do was to buy a Barton six months ago, if your budget
doesn't stretch to an A64....

Anyway they are Thoroughbred-B processors with 166MHz fsb, which is
faster than most of the thoroughbred cores, but it's not a huge
difference. AMD's own figures show that it only makes about 4%
difference at the same clock... But, if you are buying a Sempron now
and get an nforce 400 motherboard, I guess these chips should do
200MHz fsb. Apparently the Sempron equals roughly the same as an
Athlon XP with 400 less PR. But when you overclock to 200 MHz fsb (is
this reasonable?),

you get

2300+ = 200 x 9.5 = 1.9GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2400+
2400+ = 200 x 10 = 2GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2500+ speed
2500+ = 200 x 10.5 = 2.1GHz = Athlon XP 2600+ speed
2600+ = 200 x 11 = 2.2GHz = roughly Athlon Xp 2700+

For the money, is there a better buy? And is my assumption of
overclocking FSB to 200MHz reasonable?
/pre
/blockquote
font face="Verdana"Check these test results out /fontfont
face="Verdana"(includes o/c'g)/fontfont face="Verdana"...br
br
a href="http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-239-1.htm"Sempron
2500/AthlonXP 2500 Barton/AthlonXP 2500 Mobile comparison/abr
br
a
href="http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD04MjcmdXJsX3BhZ2U9MQ= ="Sempron
2800 - 3100/Celeron D335 comparison/abr
/fontbr
pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"--
Convert & Proud Adopter of ...
Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 & my new favorite Browser ... FireFox 1.0
get on board at a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mozilla.org//"http://www.mozilla.org///a
/pre
/body
/html

For your sake and others, don't post using HTML. It makes reading the
message annoying (copy-paste to .HTML file, check to make sure it's safe,
open up in IE) to anyone who's vaugely security- or privacy-conscious and
also will be blocked by many ad-blockers and filtered out by quite a few
newsfeeds. Not to mention wasting bandwidth and all the other stuff. See
http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=%22html+on+usenet%22
for a full discussion

Also, reply inline as opposed to bottom- or top-posting (ie: trim the
quoting to what you are replying to).

I've redone your message in plain text, hopefully the quoting doesn't get
screwed up ...

iamnotme wrote:
wrote:
[...]
Anyway they are Thoroughbred-B processors with 166MHz fsb
[...]
But when you overclock to 200 MHz fsb (is
this reasonable?), you get

2300+ = 200 x 9.5 = 1.9GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2400+
2400+ = 200 x 10 = 2GHz = roughly Athlon XP 2500+ speed
2500+ = 200 x 10.5 = 2.1GHz = Athlon XP 2600+ speed
2600+ = 200 x 11 = 2.2GHz = roughly Athlon Xp 2700+

For the money, is there a better buy? And is my assumption of
overclocking FSB to 200MHz reasonable?

Check these test results out (includes o/c'g) ...
http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-239-1.htm
(Sempron 2500/AthlonXP 2500 Barton/AthlonXP 2500 Mobile comparison)

I think they must have lucked out a bit with their Sempron. Most TBred B
cores can do 2.0GHz, though most don't make it over 2.2GHz without a fair
bit of coercion (voltage/cooling). New Bartons will usually get to 2.2GHz
with fairly standard cooling and voltage, and sometimes up to 2.3 or 2.4,
though the falloff rate above 2.2 seems to be fairly sharp. A Barton at
2.2GHz will give you probably about 15% (app dependent) over a TBred B at
2.0GHz, so price/performance wise choose accordingly

FSB is pretty much limited by your motherboard rather than your CPU (which
is limited by the resulting clockspeed). Another option, compared to the NF2
route, is a Via KT600-based board. There's a big review of boards at:
http://www.vr-zone.com/reviews/VIA/KT600/

Going this way you lose the (small) gains from dual-channel memory, but gain
the ability to adjust the current multiplier if you go and mobilise your
CPU. So you'll probably be able to get more out of your CPU, but (possibly)
slightly less from FSB/RAM.

With an NF2 (no multiplier adjustment possible), a Barton 2500 vs a Sempron
2400 would probably be about right, wheras for a KT600 you'll be able to get
away with a Sempron 2200 (though may have a higher chance of getting a dud).
In NZ, the prices of Bartons (and XPs in general) have gone up enough that
the Sempron would be a better deal price/performance wise, but YMMV.

[...]

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open


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Wes Newell wrote in message news:pan.2005.02.19.18.44.09.787402@TAKEOUTverizo n.net...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:53:48 -0800, thelawnet wrote:

I guess it depends on where you do your shopping.... In USA, bartons are
still relatively affordable and available I see. From Newegg, an OEM
barton 2500+ will give you an 11x multiplier for $76, plus 512k cache.
Basic heatsink, fan and thermal paste will cost about $10, so say $86 all
in.

From the same place, a *retail* sempron 2400+ is $68, with a 10x
multiplier. Roughly speaking the cache loss will cost you 1x fsb, so
effectively you are getting the equivalent of a 9x barton chip for $68.
The barton 2500+ gives you 22% more perfomance for 26% more price. So it's
not really such a good deal after all...

First off, how do you figure a 26% increase in price?. If you check again,
There's only about 12% difference in price of 76 vs. 68.

But one is retail and one is OEM. 26% is including the costs of fan,
heatsink and thermal paste, which you wouldn't need on a retail chip.

Second, the
overclocking ability of setting the FSB to 200 gives the XP 2500+ a rating
of a 3200+ XP and the Sempron 2400+ a rating of only slightly higher
than a 2400+ XP.

No that's unfair. The differences between the chips are much less than
you think, a 1x multiplier and 256kb of cache.

The Barton 2500+ has an 11x multiplier & 166MHz fsb, and 512kb of
cache
The Sempron 2400+ has a 10x multiplier & 166MHz fsb, amd 256kb of
cache.

Therefore the barton will overclock to 11 x 200 = 2.2GHz. This is
exactly 3200+ speed.
The Sempron will overclock to 10 x 200 = 2GHz. As it is 10/11 of the
clock speed of the barton this initially makes it a 2900+. However,
the chip only has 256kb cache rather than the 512kb on the barton.
Comparisons of bartons versus thoroughbreds at the same clock speed
shows that a 2.083GHz 166MHZ fsb tbred is a 2600+ whereas the 2.083GHz
barton gets 2800+. So we take off 200 PR.

The net *overclocked* performance of the Sempron is XP 2700+ level.
Because the two chips overclock from the same base to the same oced
FSB, while the hit from lack of cache stays the same, the Barton has
*less* of a lead when overclocked, only 19%.

And third, this is the closest of all the Semprons. Which
leaves me wondering why you chose it to compare and still misrepresent the
numbers. AMD marketing shill?

I didn't misrepresent the numbers, everything is accurate. Actually I
am trying to work out if a celeron d 320 would give better overclocked
performance, but I think the answer is no, as a good overclocking
board for the celeron is going to be 25% more expensive than the same
thing for the Celeron.

And I chose the Sempron 2400+ because that's what people are actually
buying! Of course it's madness to buy a Socket A 3000+, you would just
go for skt754. The Sempron 2400+ is bottom-of-the-range (excepting
2200+ and 2300+ which aren't even listed in Amd's pricelist), and
bottom-of-the-range choose for a low-end system - it's pretty obvious
if you think about it, that more money gets you more performance, but
there are diminishing returns, and the cheapest model nearly always
provides most performance per $.

That's USA. Here in UK, things are much worse. Few etailers actuall
still stock the barton chips, but where they do they are premium priced.

That's too bad. But if my only socket A option was a Sempron, I'd go ahead
and replace the MB too and switch to socket 754 or 939. The Sempron 3100+
for socket 754 will ovreclock like crazy., although an A64 2800+ may be a
better buy now.

Well I'm thinking that the new skt754 2600+ (depending on how badly
128kb of cache hurts you) or 2800+ at $78 or $88 look like good buys,
and a good bit cheaper than the $122 A64 2800+ chips. Nobody spending
$1000 or less on a PC is going to need 64-bit in the next 4 years, so
the saving makes sense, as you don't lose anything else by going
Sempron skt 754.

Still the motherboards remain more about 25% more expensive, so there
will still be buyers for socket a systems, as for the fewest possible
dollars it's the only way to go.

Like I
said, socket A Semprons suck. AMD is just playing a marketing game to get
more money for less propuct. Smart on their part I guess. Seems to have
most people buffaloed.

Agreed, but it's not that easy/accepted to find 2-year old CPUs.
Socket A has lost value, to the point that I'm not going to buy it,
and have been succesfully upsold to the new Sempron socket 754 chips.
The reason is that AMD didn't need to be competitive! Intel doesn't
compete against AMD on bang for buck at the bottom, in fact they don't
really try to. Dell will continue to build low-end Celeron systems,
and retail buyers don't have an obvious alternative to slow, crappy
Sempron chips based on 3-year-old tech.

Well, Newegg isn't the only place to buy over here. Virtually all XP
models are still available here at this time. How long that will last I
don't know, but AMD is still selling XP-M DTR cpu's at not much more than
Semprons.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...l?redir=CPT301

Not here they aren't. The 45W 2400+ sells for £58 + postage (about
£8), and is only available from about 2 vendors in the UK. Would you
pay $91 (ex tax) for one of these?

wrote:
[...]
Nobody spending
$1000 or less on a PC is going to need 64-bit in the next 4 years,

There's more to x86-64 than being 64-bit. Most of the gains currently seen
in non-encryption apps (such as games, etc) come from things such as more
GPRs. So you lose a few % in potential performance by not having x86-64.

[...]

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open