A computer components & hardware forum. HardwareBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HardwareBanter forum » General Hardware & Peripherals » Storage (alternative)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Physical hard drive failure.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 30th 05, 12:38 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Physical hard drive failure.

I have a no-name (Platinum) 160GB 7200RPM hard drive that has had some
sort of physical failure. The bios sees it, but any reads from the
drive result in errors or time out. I have tried many hard drive tools
to try to recover the data, but all point to a physical failure. The
drive is not making the normal 'clicking' sound, but I can hear a
repetitive sound as if it's trying, and failing, to access the same
spot. In the past, I've always just RMA'd drives that had physical
failures if they were under warranty, or trashed them otherwise. This
time, I would like to try and see if I can fix the drive myself. The
data on there is not super important, but I would like to recover it if
possible. I'm willing to try anything to fix the drive, including
opening it, since it is no longer under warranty.

So, I guess my questions a
1) Has anyone here ever fixed a drive with a physical problem?
2) Any guesses as to what component on the drive has most likely
failed?
3) Any websites detailing the steps to fix a physical hard drive
problem? (Google has been no help so far)
4) I know I could probably take this to some place and pay them
thousands of dollars to recover the data on it. So I'm wondering what
approach they take and if any of their techniques can be done at home
without expensive equipment.
5) Any other suggested groups to crosspost to?

Thanks.

--Phillip

  #2  
Old July 30th 05, 01:25 AM
Arno Wagner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Previously wrote:
I have a no-name (Platinum) 160GB 7200RPM hard drive that has had some
sort of physical failure. The bios sees it, but any reads from the
drive result in errors or time out. I have tried many hard drive tools
to try to recover the data, but all point to a physical failure. The
drive is not making the normal 'clicking' sound, but I can hear a
repetitive sound as if it's trying, and failing, to access the same
spot. In the past, I've always just RMA'd drives that had physical
failures if they were under warranty, or trashed them otherwise. This
time, I would like to try and see if I can fix the drive myself. The
data on there is not super important, but I would like to recover it if
possible. I'm willing to try anything to fix the drive, including
opening it, since it is no longer under warranty.


So, I guess my questions a
1) Has anyone here ever fixed a drive with a physical problem?
2) Any guesses as to what component on the drive has most likely
failed?
3) Any websites detailing the steps to fix a physical hard drive
problem? (Google has been no help so far)
4) I know I could probably take this to some place and pay them
thousands of dollars to recover the data on it. So I'm wondering what
approach they take and if any of their techniques can be done at home
without expensive equipment.
5) Any other suggested groups to crosspost to?


Well, good luck. This is hi-tech you are trying to repair. In some
(few) cases this might be feasible without much experience and
without special tools, but in most cases you will not even be able
to even diagnose the problem. You are trying something akin to brain
surgery at home. True, the Azteks did brain surgery without
modern medical knowledge or equipment and true, some of their
patients survived, but care to guess how many did not?

One word of advice though: As soon as you open the drive
you have very limited time to repair and get the data off,
unless you have access to a clean room. Depending on what
particles settle on the disk's surface you may also have
no time at all.

Arno

  #3  
Old July 30th 05, 01:31 AM
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote

I have a no-name (Platinum)


Not clear what you mean by that. The name should show
up on the black bios screen at boot time, and with Everest.
http://www.lavalys.com/products/over...?pid=1&lang=en

160GB 7200RPM hard drive that has had some sort of physical failure.


Yeah, looks like it.

The bios sees it, but any reads from the drive result in
errors or time out. I have tried many hard drive tools to
try to recover the data, but all point to a physical failure.


The drive is not making the normal 'clicking' sound, but I can hear
repetitive sound as if it's trying, and failing, to access the same spot.


Not all drive click when they recalibrate.

In the past, I've always just RMA'd drives that had physical
failures if they were under warranty, or trashed them otherwise.
This time, I would like to try and see if I can fix the drive myself.


Not very likely with a drive that recent.

The data on there is not super important, but I would like
to recover it if possible. I'm willing to try anything to fix the
drive, including opening it, since it is no longer under warranty.


So, I guess my questions a
1) Has anyone here ever fixed a drive with a physical problem?


Yes, and there is a difference between good enough
to get most of the the data back and fixed properly.

2) Any guesses as to what component on the drive has most likely failed?


The only thing its possible to say is that it doesnt appear to be
able to read the data off the platters properly. That can be due
to a number of failures, everything from the read amp inside the
sealed enclosure failing to a poor joint in the connection to that,
to something more basic on the logic card. Not possible to say
which it is without doing stuff like looking at the signals from the
heads with a CRO etc.

3) Any websites detailing the steps to fix a physical
hard drive problem? (Google has been no help so far)


There's a few around, but they're all mostly rather silly.

You could try putting the drive in a plastic bag and putting it
in the freezer for a few hours and then checking to see if you
can see any data on the drive as quickly as possible before it
warms up. And repeat the process until you get the data you need.

That can work if the fault is a dry joint or a crack
in the flexible connection to the heads etc.

4) I know I could probably take this to some place and
pay them thousands of dollars to recover the data on it.
So I'm wondering what approach they take


Everything from checking those basics with a CRO and
fixing what is found to be wrong to opening the drive in
a clean room and fixing a physical problem in there, to
replacing the head amp etc in a clean room.

and if any of their techniques can be
done at home without expensive equipment.


Only really the freezing technique.

With older drives you can often just replace the logic
card with one off another drive of the same model,
but that isnt very likely to work with a drive that
modern, even with two brand new fault free drives.

5) Any other suggested groups to crosspost to?


This is the best for those questions.


  #4  
Old July 31st 05, 03:39 PM
J. Clarke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:

I have a no-name (Platinum) 160GB 7200RPM hard drive that has had some
sort of physical failure. The bios sees it, but any reads from the
drive result in errors or time out. I have tried many hard drive tools
to try to recover the data, but all point to a physical failure. The
drive is not making the normal 'clicking' sound, but I can hear a
repetitive sound as if it's trying, and failing, to access the same
spot.


That's recalibration--it's either dealing with a marginal sector that is not
quite to the point of being marked bad or something has gone wrong in the
read circuitry so that all attempts at reads give the appearance to the
firmware of being reads of bad sectors.

In the past, I've always just RMA'd drives that had physical
failures if they were under warranty, or trashed them otherwise. This
time, I would like to try and see if I can fix the drive myself. The
data on there is not super important, but I would like to recover it if
possible. I'm willing to try anything to fix the drive, including
opening it, since it is no longer under warranty.

So, I guess my questions a
1) Has anyone here ever fixed a drive with a physical problem?


It's been done.

2) Any guesses as to what component on the drive has most likely
failed?


The platter is most likely. If so you don't have a prayer of fixing it--the
only possible repair is to read everything _else_ off of it, and if the
sector the drive is trying to read is one that the drive needs in order to
start then you're going to have to rewrite the firmware to not need that
sector, which is for an individual whose understanding of disks is such
that he has to ask questions here going to be a huge undertaking.

It _may_ be that you have lucked out and it's an electronics problem, in
which case replacing the circuit board with one from an identical drive
might fix the problem.

3) Any websites detailing the steps to fix a physical hard drive
problem? (Google has been no help so far)


Not really.

4) I know I could probably take this to some place and pay them
thousands of dollars to recover the data on it. So I'm wondering what
approach they take and if any of their techniques can be done at home
without expensive equipment.


The only thing you can try that's not going to be expensive would be to swap
out the controller, and don't bet on that working.

Note that some of the recovery services now have reasonably low cost
recovery available if you're willing to sit at the bottom of the priority
queue for however long it takes.

5) Any other suggested groups to crosspost to?

Thanks.

--Phillip


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
  #5  
Old July 31st 05, 11:19 PM
Folkert Rienstra
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
wrote:

I have a no-name (Platinum) 160GB 7200RPM hard drive that has had some
sort of physical failure. The bios sees it, but any reads from the
drive result in errors or time out. I have tried many hard drive tools
to try to recover the data, but all point to a physical failure. The
drive is not making the normal 'clicking' sound, but I can hear a
repetitive sound as if it's trying, and failing, to access the same spot.


That's recalibration--it's either dealing with a marginal sector that is not
quite to the point of being marked bad or something has gone wrong in the
read circuitry so that all attempts at reads give the appearance to the
firmware of being reads of bad sectors.

In the past, I've always just RMA'd drives that had physical
failures if they were under warranty, or trashed them otherwise. This
time, I would like to try and see if I can fix the drive myself. The
data on there is not super important, but I would like to recover it if
possible. I'm willing to try anything to fix the drive, including
opening it, since it is no longer under warranty.

So, I guess my questions a
1) Has anyone here ever fixed a drive with a physical problem?


It's been done.

2) Any guesses as to what component on the drive has most likely failed?


The platter is most likely. If so you don't have a prayer of fixing it--the
only possible repair is to read everything _else_ off of it,


and if the sector the drive is trying to read is one that the drive needs in
order to start


It's recognized by BIOS so obviously it passed that point.

then you're going to have to rewrite the firmware to not need that sector,


In this case, just overwriting it.

which is for an individual whose understanding of disks is such
that he has to ask questions here going to be a huge undertaking.

It _may_ be that you have lucked out and it's an electronics problem, in
which case replacing the circuit board with one from an identical drive
might fix the problem.

3) Any websites detailing the steps to fix a physical hard drive
problem? (Google has been no help so far)


Not really.


No 'details' but real people to help guide:
http://forums.actionfront.com/


4) I know I could probably take this to some place and pay them
thousands of dollars to recover the data on it. So I'm wondering what
approach they take and if any of their techniques can be done at home
without expensive equipment.


The only thing you can try that's not going to be expensive would be to swap
out the controller, and don't bet on that working.

Note that some of the recovery services now have reasonably low cost
recovery available if you're willing to sit at the bottom of the priority
queue for however long it takes.

5) Any other suggested groups to crosspost to?

Thanks.

--Phillip



  #6  
Old August 1st 05, 10:31 PM
RPR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Generally data recovery companies replace the drive's board first, then
the preamp board inside the HDA. If that doesn't help, they may check
if a head needs to and can be replaced. The last step is taking the
drive apart, putting each platter on a spin stand (like a turntable)
and reading the analog data with a high performance head and converting
the flux changes into user data with software. This can generally
recover anything that's not physically erased or damaged but takes a
lot of time.

Your drive clearly has problems reading data since you hear it
retrying, but you won't be able to do anything about it (except maybe
trying various temperatures.) If it was easy data recovery wouldn't be
so expensive. Don't waste your time. An open drive makes a nice paper
weight or bookend.

  #7  
Old August 2nd 05, 12:06 AM
Folkert Rienstra
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"RPR" wrote in message ups.com
Generally data recovery companies replace the drive's board first, then
the preamp board inside the HDA. If that doesn't help, they may check
if a head needs to and can be replaced. The last step is taking the
drive apart, putting each platter on a spin stand (like a turntable)
and reading the analog data with a high performance head and converting
the flux changes into user data with software. This can generally
recover anything that's not physically erased or damaged but takes a
lot of time.

Your drive clearly has problems reading data since you hear it
retrying, but you won't be able to do anything about it


What exactly did you not understand in "It's recognized by BIOS".

(except maybe trying various temperatures.)
If it was easy data recovery wouldn't be so expensive.
Don't waste your time. An open drive makes a nice paper
weight or bookend.



  #8  
Old August 4th 05, 09:24 PM
lazinator
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


RPR wrote:
Generally data recovery companies replace the drive's board first, then
the preamp board inside the HDA. If that doesn't help, they may check
if a head needs to and can be replaced. The last step is taking the
drive apart, putting each platter on a spin stand (like a turntable)
and reading the analog data with a high performance head and converting
the flux changes into user data with software. This can generally
recover anything that's not physically erased or damaged but takes a
lot of time.


The technology you described does not exist, no data recovery company
or intelligence/law enforcement agency recovers data by reading analog
data off platters on a spin stand.

  #9  
Old August 4th 05, 09:43 PM
J. Clarke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

lazinator wrote:


RPR wrote:
Generally data recovery companies replace the drive's board first, then
the preamp board inside the HDA. If that doesn't help, they may check
if a head needs to and can be replaced. The last step is taking the
drive apart, putting each platter on a spin stand (like a turntable)
and reading the analog data with a high performance head and converting
the flux changes into user data with software. This can generally
recover anything that's not physically erased or damaged but takes a
lot of time.


The technology you described does not exist, no data recovery company
or intelligence/law enforcement agency recovers data by reading analog
data off platters on a spin stand.


And of course you are privy to the internal workings of every law
enforcement and intelligence agency in the world.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
  #10  
Old August 5th 05, 12:37 AM
Arno Wagner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Previously lazinator wrote:

RPR wrote:
Generally data recovery companies replace the drive's board first, then
the preamp board inside the HDA. If that doesn't help, they may check
if a head needs to and can be replaced. The last step is taking the
drive apart, putting each platter on a spin stand (like a turntable)
and reading the analog data with a high performance head and converting
the flux changes into user data with software. This can generally
recover anything that's not physically erased or damaged but takes a
lot of time.


The technology you described does not exist, no data recovery company
or intelligence/law enforcement agency recovers data by reading analog
data off platters on a spin stand.


HDDs have long since switched to analog reading and decoding, so there
is no advantage left in doing so. With classical digital decoding
doing maximum likelyhood decoding would gain you some signal
improvement (1.5dB better S/N ratio, if I remember my coding theory
course correctly). Not anymore.

Arno
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What do you use for backup today? Mxsmanic Homebuilt PC's 46 July 18th 05 09:19 PM
Win XP doesn't like a second hard drive! N9WOS General 9 January 6th 05 02:10 AM
Mysterious Hard Drive Problem Bill Anderson General 4 January 18th 04 04:43 AM
Help With Locked Hard Drive Louis Bybee Storage (alternative) 29 November 22nd 03 04:01 PM
SOLUTION! IBM Hard Drive only recognized as 33GB hard drive, but is more >>>82.3GB Andy Storage (alternative) 9 November 18th 03 12:20 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 HardwareBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.