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#11
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On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 17:47:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
I would have bought the A version, just because VCore has two heatsinks on it. The A also has one more PCI Express slot. With the A, there are reviews to read. And then you can look at the failure cases, and see if there is a common theme to them. ******* The reason I am suddenly concerned about heatsinks, is I bought an Asus motherboard about two months ago, it has a single cheap heatsink on VCore... and it is burning hot to the touch when running Prime95. I ended up fitting a cooling fan, blowing down on VCore. And you know how hard it is to mount cooling fans in odd places. A waste of my time, to have to set that up, just because a decent heatpipe cooler wasn't used in place of the flimsy single aluminum heatsink. The computer I'm typing this on, Asus uses a huge heatpipe cooler (three sides), that never gets more than a couple degrees above room temperature. Which is engineering to the other extreme (overkill). I wish I could swap coolers between boards, but of course they don't share common features or footprint. I've also got a MB, GByte tho, with burning chipsets (could be either support or video, according to SpeedFan, tho they're both on the hot side). I'll try pulling from the Big Box of Past Heatsinks something suitable, first, cutting it down with hacksaw, dremel tool, to fit and glue it on from the Big Box of Heatsink Compounds. Can be a mixed bag, effort and time involved, going for optimality among traditionalists (overclockers especially). First time I did it was with a pane of glass and car oxidizing compound, "figure-8" polishing mirror finishes into the bottom of heatsinks. As well, a lesser/major impediment for accounting engineering. I've an ART (studio rack stuff) amplifier, for instance, where I'm looking behind at engineers designing such things. "Well," says one, "when I walk up to a component and handle it, I don't feel comfortable about putting out that product, into the market, when I'm uncomfortable and concerned about burning my fingers." Now, that's quality control. Damn amp is a little hot box, whole of both its sides are massive heatsinks formed into the case design to account four power-output chips, two to a side. And, there's already a newer design model, (hey, mine is new at least to me, purchased a few, couple of years ago), supposedly with more efficient cooling. Perhaps fanless. I see electronics savvy reviewers with their highend gear -- "Well, I pulled out the fan because I don't need to run it that hard on my efficient $80K speakers." Ha - I pulled the fan and instead the finned-sides feeling like a car's radiator, the whole thing turns into a mini-oven. Now, there's another case of why in the hell can't a decent fan, with a piezo incorporated, engineered to audibly coincide for a RPM-failure monitored incident. I'm sure, it's just going to be nothing short of peachy if that friggin' amp fails and I reach over and find I'm grabbing a fanless hotbox. Every one of my tubed amps (four of them), I've flipped over to send the tubes' 450F radiant filament heat away from the backplane and underlying support circuitry. In certain terms, by those amps' terms, they're now acceptably known for "heads." ...Almost, someday I'll have to buy some wood to stain and slap together for prettier enclosures, than just grabbing one with a mind to stick not fingers into cap-circuitry territory, that keep stored their lethal voltages. |
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On 11/22/2014 5:47 PM, Paul wrote:
Motor T wrote: On 11/21/2014 11:34 AM, Motor T wrote: I see an ASUS Z97-E motherboard on Newegg I would like to get. I can't find any reviews for this board anywhere. Nor can I find a QVI list of qualified memory. Is this a new board, or is it older/unreliable? Any help would be appreciated as it quite inexpensive compared to other Z97 boards. Thanks. Thanks for the replies and the link. I decided to 'go for it', based on reputation and price. It is very much equal to the Z97-A I was going to buy. This one $30 cheaper. Thanks again. I would have bought the A version, just because VCore has two heatsinks on it. The A also has one more PCI Express slot. With the A, there are reviews to read. And then you can look at the failure cases, and see if there is a common theme to them. ******* The reason I am suddenly concerned about heatsinks, is I bought an Asus motherboard about two months ago, it has a single cheap heatsink on VCore... and it is burning hot to the touch when running Prime95. I ended up fitting a cooling fan, blowing down on VCore. And you know how hard it is to mount cooling fans in odd places. A waste of my time, to have to set that up, just because a decent heatpipe cooler wasn't used in place of the flimsy single aluminum heatsink. The computer I'm typing this on, Asus uses a huge heatpipe cooler (three sides), that never gets more than a couple degrees above room temperature. Which is engineering to the other extreme (overkill). I wish I could swap coolers between boards, but of course they don't share common features or footprint. Paul What you have here is one for my side. I am a firm believer in the "you get what you pay for" school of thought. In the long run it never pays to cheap out for a measly few bucks. While this good purchasing practice doesn't necessarily mean you have to though money away it does mean you can look for an affordable boat while not settling for a dingy. If you can't afford the bait don't go fishing or you might be left floundering. I have had several ASUS based systems but have now settled for Gigabyte. |
#13
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On 22/11/14 3:34 AM, Motor T wrote:
I see an ASUS Z97-E motherboard on Newegg I would like to get. I can't find any reviews for this board anywhere. Did you google "asus z97-e review"? Nor can I find a QVI list of qualified memory. Asus' website for the motherboard got a list: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z97E/specifications/ You don't need to worry too much about RAM compatibility issues... -- @~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you! /( _ )\ (Fedora 19 i686) Linux 3.14.23-100.fc19.i686 ^ ^ 18:06:01 up 3 days 23:34 0 users load average: 0.00 0.01 0.05 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
#14
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Al Drake wrote:
On 11/22/2014 5:47 PM, Paul wrote: Motor T wrote: On 11/21/2014 11:34 AM, Motor T wrote: I see an ASUS Z97-E motherboard on Newegg I would like to get. I can't find any reviews for this board anywhere. Nor can I find a QVI list of qualified memory. Is this a new board, or is it older/unreliable? Any help would be appreciated as it quite inexpensive compared to other Z97 boards. Thanks. Thanks for the replies and the link. I decided to 'go for it', based on reputation and price. It is very much equal to the Z97-A I was going to buy. This one $30 cheaper. Thanks again. I would have bought the A version, just because VCore has two heatsinks on it. The A also has one more PCI Express slot. With the A, there are reviews to read. And then you can look at the failure cases, and see if there is a common theme to them. ******* The reason I am suddenly concerned about heatsinks, is I bought an Asus motherboard about two months ago, it has a single cheap heatsink on VCore... and it is burning hot to the touch when running Prime95. I ended up fitting a cooling fan, blowing down on VCore. And you know how hard it is to mount cooling fans in odd places. A waste of my time, to have to set that up, just because a decent heatpipe cooler wasn't used in place of the flimsy single aluminum heatsink. The computer I'm typing this on, Asus uses a huge heatpipe cooler (three sides), that never gets more than a couple degrees above room temperature. Which is engineering to the other extreme (overkill). I wish I could swap coolers between boards, but of course they don't share common features or footprint. Paul What you have here is one for my side. I am a firm believer in the "you get what you pay for" school of thought. In the long run it never pays to cheap out for a measly few bucks. While this good purchasing practice doesn't necessarily mean you have to though money away it does mean you can look for an affordable boat while not settling for a dingy. If you can't afford the bait don't go fishing or you might be left floundering. I have had several ASUS based systems but have now settled for Gigabyte. I took my eye off the ball, and missed the important details at the time. The receipt for the motherboard says $281.37 with tax included. Price isn't a guarantee of anything, really. The analysis at the time was a bit rushed, and I was more worried about whether the CPU cooler would fit, that the DIMMs could be fitted without having to take off the CPU cooler, and that the computer case side panel would close on the computer case, with the cooler in place. There's maybe a quarter inch between the top of the cooler, and the side of the case. So I was kinda fixated on getting that detail right. And they fooled me on the DIMMs too. The DIMM sockets are two-tone colored, which makes it look like the lock latches both move. When in fact one of the lock latches is the "fixed" kind that doesn't move. I would not have bought the motherboard if I'd known that. Normally, if the DIMM socket is all one color of plastic (one latch white, other latch matches the socket plastic), that's a hint it's the "half a socket" type. It's a good thing I bench tested and happened to poke it with a finger while it was sitting there. If I'd built up the system straight into the case, it would probably be frying itself to death at this very moment. Paul |
#15
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On Friday, November 21, 2014 11:34:56 AM UTC-8, Motor T wrote:
I see an ASUS Z97-E motherboard on Newegg I would like to get. Here's a more general question: who cares about the mobo? if a mobo supports certain operations, isn't that only true for bootup, and after that it becomes irrelevant? For example, supposed the motherboard supports SATA3. After bootup, the mobo hands off to the OS, and the OS supports these SATA drives, yes? So if can bootup, the mobo has performed its duties, and no need to worry anymore? Hence any mobo that supports the hardware you have is 'good enuf'? There is no interaction between OS and mobo after bootup? RL |
#16
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RayLopez99 wrote:
On Friday, November 21, 2014 11:34:56 AM UTC-8, Motor T wrote: I see an ASUS Z97-E motherboard on Newegg I would like to get. Here's a more general question: who cares about the mobo? if a mobo supports certain operations, isn't that only true for bootup, and after that it becomes irrelevant? For example, supposed the motherboard supports SATA3. After bootup, the mobo hands off to the OS, and the OS supports these SATA drives, yes? So if can bootup, the mobo has performed its duties, and no need to worry anymore? Hence any mobo that supports the hardware you have is 'good enuf'? There is no interaction between OS and mobo after bootup? RL There is a small amount of BIOS code that runs, while the OS is running. This is only an issue with audio workstation design (only people working with low latency audio, care about the side effects of this issue). The code runs under System Management Mode. When SMM is invoked, the OS is no longer running. It's a very crude form of timesharing (and I don't know if the concept has been updated over the years by Intel or not). Maybe SMM steals 30*100usec or about 3 milliseconds per second of operation time. I don't really know what controls SMM rate, whether it's just a timer signal connected to SMI, or some system timer is set up to do it. There have been motherboards, with the Asus iPanel connected, where it appeared the SMI signal on the iPanel header, triggered SMM to update the iPanel display. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Mode (Suspected to use SMM code for support...) http://ht4u.net/old/2001/asusipanel/...eingebaut2.jpg ******* You buy motherboards, according to the set of hardware interfaces they support. Say, for example, you're holding an M.2 drive in your hand, and want to plug it in. Then you need a motherboard with an M.2 socket. Or, with expansion slots (PCI Express), that could hold a separate card. The advantage of integrated connectors (onboard M.2) is the overall system cost is lower. I can get a USB3 port on a motherboard for peanuts, whereas adding a separate card might cost me $25. For example, in an impulse buy at the computer store, it cost me $25 for a serial port, $25 for a parallel port, and so on. If those ports are already on the motherboard, the incremental cost is a lot lower. For the manufacturer, back in the day, those two interfaces could be added for the cost of the connector alone. For gamer purposes, you may want slots for more than one video card. They make more expensive designs, from the CPU on down, for that purpose (LGA2011 with 40 lanes). That can double the cost of the basic system, if you throw in the bells and whistles (best of everything). But the video cards might cost $500 a piece, so it's all relative. The whole project is going to be expensive, and mainly for bragging rights. That's what some of those people do, is waggle their three or four video cards, in your face. What they don't tell you, is how uncomfortably warm it is in their computer room, when they're gaming :-) You don't need a home heating system, if you buy all that stuff. Another selector for motherboards, is the adequacy of the design. Whether there were shortcuts taken or not. In a past Anandtech review, they managed to "burn out" several motherboards under their review, by putting 130W processors in the socket. And as it turned out later, there was advanced information available that would in a subtle way, have warned that the motherboards in question were only good with 65W or 89W processors. So when you're looking at the cheapest motherboards, there's a danger they could burn out on the first day, if you haven't been reading all possible documentation before hand. If you select a mid-range priced motherboard, one with good reviews from hundreds of buyers, less is likely to go wrong with them. Paul |
#17
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RayLopez99 wrote:
On Friday, November 21, 2014 11:34:56 AM UTC-8, Motor T wrote: I see an ASUS Z97-E motherboard on Newegg I would like to get. Here's a more general question: who cares about the mobo? if a mobo supports certain operations, isn't that only true for bootup, and after that it becomes irrelevant? For example, supposed the motherboard supports SATA3. After bootup, the mobo hands off to the OS, and the OS supports these SATA drives, yes? So if can bootup, the mobo has performed its duties, and no need to worry anymore? Hence any mobo that supports the hardware you have is 'good enuf'? There is no interaction between OS and mobo after bootup? RL What you say is not true. For instance, many buses are on the motherboard. An OS is just software (which is going to be loaded into RAM, caches, hard drives). The motherboard is facilitating the computers communication--even through it's network interface. |
#18
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:02:01 -0800 (PST), RayLopez99
wrote: Here's a more general question: who cares about the mobo? if a mobo supports certain operations, isn't that only true for bootup, and after that it becomes irrelevant? For example, supposed the motherboard supports SATA3. After bootup, the mobo hands off to the OS, and the OS supports these SATA drives, yes? So if can bootup, the mobo has performed its duties, and no need to worry anymore? Hence any mobo that supports the hardware you have is 'good enuf'? There is no interaction between OS and mobo after bootup? - If that's all you want, then that holds true: 'The richest man in town is the man whose games are the cheapest [to play].' Buy into mid-level MB reputability, as Paul's saying, or let it 'hang' with some of the better reviewed, cheaper, if at best, among lesser-known, though qualified MB brandnames. To extrapolate: - (excerpts from Pensées [Blaise Pascal] part III, §233): "God is, or He is not" A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up. According to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions. You must wager (it is **not** optional). [Emphasis -Fl.] Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. (Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity). [however... -Fl.] ....Indeed, Ockham's contribution seems to be to restrict the operation of this principle in matters pertaining to miracles and God's power: so, in the Eucharist, a plurality of miracles is possible, simply because it pleases God.[17] This principle is sometimes phrased as: Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate (Plurality should not be posited without necessity).[23] Frustra fit per plura quod potest fieri per pauciora. (It is futile to do with more things that which can be done with fewer). -wiki - Caveat emptor: May he beware, the subjunctive of cavere, to beware and emptor, buyer. [Beware -1) to be aware, -2) not without impunity, you are conjunctively -3) ware(s). -Fl.) |
#19
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:02:01 -0800 (PST), RayLopez99 wrote:
| On Friday, November 21, 2014 11:34:56 AM UTC-8, Motor T wrote: | I see an ASUS Z97-E motherboard on Newegg I would like to get. | | Here's a more general question: who cares about the mobo? if a mobo supports certain operations, isn't that only true for bootup, and after that it becomes irrelevant? | | For example, supposed the motherboard supports SATA3. After bootup, the mobo hands off to the OS, and the OS supports these SATA drives, yes? So if can bootup, the mobo has performed its duties, and no need to worry anymore? Hence any mobo that supports the hardware you have is 'good enuf'? There is no interaction between OS and mobo after bootup? | | RL The OS only takes over operational control of the functions, not the functions themselves. The MB and OS relationship is a lot like a car and driver situation. No matter how good the driver, he can only do what the car lets him do (you are the owner of the car and employer of the driver telling him where you want to go). Larc |
#20
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Regular Google Groups troll...
-- RayLopez99 raylopez88 gmail.com wrote in news:88c37247-3c9a-4ac8-a725-7e265d4b1c9d googlegroups.com: X-Received: by 10.70.44.161 with SMTP id f1mr18698431pdm.7.1417240921873; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:02:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.36.231 with SMTP id p94mr409qgp.13.1417240921826; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:02:01 -0800 (PST) Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!h15no1920563igd.0!new s-out.google.com!m4ni576qag.1!nntp.google.com!w8no32 11503qac.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.g ooglegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 22:02:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: m4o44q$giq$1 speranza.aioe.org Complaints-To: groups-abuse google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=108.175.163.243; posting-account=fRZa_AkAAACE3nlFA9zM1Eq00OKq1Ycq NNTP-Posting-Host: 108.175.163.243 References: m4o44q$giq$1 speranza.aioe.org User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: 88c37247-3c9a-4ac8-a725-7e265d4b1c9d googlegroups.com Subject: New ASUS motherboard info From: RayLopez99 raylopez88 gmail.com Injection-Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 06:02:01 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:31648 On Friday, November 21, 2014 11:34:56 AM UTC-8, Motor T wrote: I see an ASUS Z97-E motherboard on Newegg I would like to get. Here's a more general question: who cares about the mobo? if a mobo supports certain operations, isn't that only true for bootup, and after that it becomes irrelevant? For example, supposed the motherboard supports SATA3. After bootup, the mobo hands off to the OS, and the OS supports these SATA drives, yes? So if can bootup, the mobo has performed its duties, and no need to worry anymore? Hence any mobo that supports the hardware you have is 'good enuf'? There is no interaction between OS and mobo after bootup? RL |
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