very late follow on question Issues with preinstalled disk images? Always reinstall OS on brand new system?

I just re-read this note, and I do need to ask a question.

I have a Dell Latitude D600, no SCSI there, but I do need to fix some
problems by re-imaging. However, Dell support told me that I can't
simply use the Windows product code that is on the sticker on the
bottom of the system, because it is Dell-specific and would work only
with a Dell-supplied install CD, which I do not have.

I don't want to buy another copy of Win XP, just to fix some nagging
problems. Any way around this problem?



On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 01:27:50 GMT, "Jay Bollyn"
wrote:

"Daniel P. B. Smith" wrote in message
. com...
The company I work for manufactures a (big, expensive) device with a
SCSI interface. In some cases, we buy PC platforms, install our
software, test, and ship a turnkey system to our customers. Usually
the platform is a built-to-order Dell. The OS is Windows NT 4.0 SP 6.
There's nothing very special about the build-to-order specs, but we do
call for certain disk drives, a specific SCSI card (Adaptec 29160)
dedicated to our device, and so forth.

In the past year, we've encountered about half-a-dozen instances
(about 25%) in which we experience the following: open box, install
software, test, and see a mysterious failure that LOOKS like bad SCSI
hardware (or a bad driver or something like that). The failure is
always a hard failure. What's weird is it only affects certain
specific SCSI commands--certain specific CDB codes. Dozens of SCSI
commands are handled successfully, mode sense, mode select, inquiry,
test unit ready, etc. But when it gets to the first actual WRITE
command, it hangs. The first time we encountered this we tore our hair
out swapping cards, getting out the SCSI analyzer, checking driver
versions, having the EE's scope signals, etc. Nothing obviously wrong,
except it didn't work.

Six times out of six, reinstalling the OS (using the CD-ROM's supplied
by Dell with that particular PC) cured the problem.

Cured it permanently. Every single time. So far, anyway.

We haven't been able to pin down what's really happening. One of our
theories is that Dell does not actually install the OS but simply
clones a stock disk image--and that somehow the disk image isn't
always "right" for the built-to-order configuration. One engineer did
manage to capture the Registry before and after reinstallation and DID
see some evidence that the Registry was slightly mismatched to the
actual hardware before reinstallation. Of course, the puzzle then is
why this only happens about one time in four. Perhaps Dell is counting
on Windows PNP to automatically adapt itself to the added hardware,
and this works, but not reliably?

Anyone encounter anything like this? Any theories about what's
happening? Can't we assume that a vendor that lives by build-to-order
would know how to ship a preinstalled OS that's an adequate match for
the hardware they've installed?

The best way to get a reliable box is to reformat and fresh install the OS.
We have bought many Dells since NT4 was new. We don't use SCSI much, so I
can't comment on that specifically. Our problems with the OEM image(s) tend
to be related to our Novell Netware network, but there are problems with the
OS itself also. We simply have many fewer problems with reformatted/fresh
installed boxes. This is especially true if one is adding on hardware or
software, after it leaves Dell. Especially if the hardware or software is a
bit unusual. As yours is.

You can be sure that Dell uses something like Norton Ghost to replicate disk
images. Potential problems come in when the target PC does not exactly match
the existing image. Sometimes the OS can correctly adjust, sometimes not.

Dell will never admit that there is a problem with their OEM image(s).

I suggest reformat and fresh install the OS, then use Norton Ghost to
replicate the image. This will give you the best reliability, and you will
be assured that you *know* what you have. Who knows exactly what Dell's OEM
image is.

Contact Dell and get the CD.
Otherwise you could try Ebay for a Dell CD appropriate for your
computer.

Otherwise your options become limited because the Product Key on the
computer will probably not work with the wrong CD.

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Winey" wrote in message
...
I just re-read this note, and I do need to ask a question.

I have a Dell Latitude D600, no SCSI there, but I do need to fix
some
problems by re-imaging. However, Dell support told me that I can't
simply use the Windows product code that is on the sticker on the
bottom of the system, because it is Dell-specific and would work
only
with a Dell-supplied install CD, which I do not have.

I don't want to buy another copy of Win XP, just to fix some nagging
problems. Any way around this problem?



On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 01:27:50 GMT, "Jay Bollyn"
wrote:

"Daniel P. B. Smith" wrote in message
. com...
The company I work for manufactures a (big, expensive) device
with a
SCSI interface. In some cases, we buy PC platforms, install our
software, test, and ship a turnkey system to our customers.
Usually
the platform is a built-to-order Dell. The OS is Windows NT 4.0
SP 6.
There's nothing very special about the build-to-order specs, but
we do
call for certain disk drives, a specific SCSI card (Adaptec
29160)
dedicated to our device, and so forth.

In the past year, we've encountered about half-a-dozen instances
(about 25%) in which we experience the following: open box,
install
software, test, and see a mysterious failure that LOOKS like bad
SCSI
hardware (or a bad driver or something like that). The failure
is
always a hard failure. What's weird is it only affects certain
specific SCSI commands--certain specific CDB codes. Dozens of
SCSI
commands are handled successfully, mode sense, mode select,
inquiry,
test unit ready, etc. But when it gets to the first actual WRITE
command, it hangs. The first time we encountered this we tore our
hair
out swapping cards, getting out the SCSI analyzer, checking
driver
versions, having the EE's scope signals, etc. Nothing obviously
wrong,
except it didn't work.

Six times out of six, reinstalling the OS (using the CD-ROM's
supplied
by Dell with that particular PC) cured the problem.

Cured it permanently. Every single time. So far, anyway.

We haven't been able to pin down what's really happening. One of
our
theories is that Dell does not actually install the OS but simply
clones a stock disk image--and that somehow the disk image isn't
always "right" for the built-to-order configuration. One engineer
did
manage to capture the Registry before and after reinstallation
and DID
see some evidence that the Registry was slightly mismatched to
the
actual hardware before reinstallation. Of course, the puzzle then
is
why this only happens about one time in four. Perhaps Dell is
counting
on Windows PNP to automatically adapt itself to the added
hardware,
and this works, but not reliably?

Anyone encounter anything like this? Any theories about what's
happening? Can't we assume that a vendor that lives by
build-to-order
would know how to ship a preinstalled OS that's an adequate match
for
the hardware they've installed?

The best way to get a reliable box is to reformat and fresh install
the OS.
We have bought many Dells since NT4 was new. We don't use SCSI
much, so I
can't comment on that specifically. Our problems with the OEM
image(s) tend
to be related to our Novell Netware network, but there are problems
with the
OS itself also. We simply have many fewer problems with
reformatted/fresh
installed boxes. This is especially true if one is adding on
hardware or
software, after it leaves Dell. Especially if the hardware or
software is a
bit unusual. As yours is.

You can be sure that Dell uses something like Norton Ghost to
replicate disk
images. Potential problems come in when the target PC does not
exactly match
the existing image. Sometimes the OS can correctly adjust,
sometimes not.

Dell will never admit that there is a problem with their OEM
image(s).

I suggest reformat and fresh install the OS, then use Norton Ghost
to
replicate the image. This will give you the best reliability, and
you will
be assured that you *know* what you have. Who knows exactly what
Dell's OEM
image is.

I have had no difficulty whatsoever using the "Dell Restore" CD to install
Windows on another brand of computer with its own XP Certificate of
Authorization, that convoluted 25 character gobbledygook code on the sticker.
This tells me that the Dell Restore CD is no different than your usual XP
install CD. This is the case for XP Home. Don't know about XP Pro.

You should be able to use a garden-variety XP Home CD to reinstall the software
on your Dell, and the install should accept the product ID code on the sticker
on your computer.

But, as another posting stated, call Dell and request the restore CD. I wonder
why you did not get one with your computer? They seem to be part of the
standard package with all Dells. While you're at it, go on line at
www.dell.com , enter in the computer serial "number" and see what shipped with
the computer initially... Ben Myers

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:13:41 -0700, Winey wrote:

I just re-read this note, and I do need to ask a question.

I have a Dell Latitude D600, no SCSI there, but I do need to fix some
problems by re-imaging. However, Dell support told me that I can't
simply use the Windows product code that is on the sticker on the
bottom of the system, because it is Dell-specific and would work only
with a Dell-supplied install CD, which I do not have.

I don't want to buy another copy of Win XP, just to fix some nagging
problems. Any way around this problem?



On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 01:27:50 GMT, "Jay Bollyn"
wrote:

"Daniel P. B. Smith" wrote in message
.com...
The company I work for manufactures a (big, expensive) device with a
SCSI interface. In some cases, we buy PC platforms, install our
software, test, and ship a turnkey system to our customers. Usually
the platform is a built-to-order Dell. The OS is Windows NT 4.0 SP 6.
There's nothing very special about the build-to-order specs, but we do
call for certain disk drives, a specific SCSI card (Adaptec 29160)
dedicated to our device, and so forth.

In the past year, we've encountered about half-a-dozen instances
(about 25%) in which we experience the following: open box, install
software, test, and see a mysterious failure that LOOKS like bad SCSI
hardware (or a bad driver or something like that). The failure is
always a hard failure. What's weird is it only affects certain
specific SCSI commands--certain specific CDB codes. Dozens of SCSI
commands are handled successfully, mode sense, mode select, inquiry,
test unit ready, etc. But when it gets to the first actual WRITE
command, it hangs. The first time we encountered this we tore our hair
out swapping cards, getting out the SCSI analyzer, checking driver
versions, having the EE's scope signals, etc. Nothing obviously wrong,
except it didn't work.

Six times out of six, reinstalling the OS (using the CD-ROM's supplied
by Dell with that particular PC) cured the problem.

Cured it permanently. Every single time. So far, anyway.

We haven't been able to pin down what's really happening. One of our
theories is that Dell does not actually install the OS but simply
clones a stock disk image--and that somehow the disk image isn't
always "right" for the built-to-order configuration. One engineer did
manage to capture the Registry before and after reinstallation and DID
see some evidence that the Registry was slightly mismatched to the
actual hardware before reinstallation. Of course, the puzzle then is
why this only happens about one time in four. Perhaps Dell is counting
on Windows PNP to automatically adapt itself to the added hardware,
and this works, but not reliably?

Anyone encounter anything like this? Any theories about what's
happening? Can't we assume that a vendor that lives by build-to-order
would know how to ship a preinstalled OS that's an adequate match for
the hardware they've installed?

The best way to get a reliable box is to reformat and fresh install the OS.
We have bought many Dells since NT4 was new. We don't use SCSI much, so I
can't comment on that specifically. Our problems with the OEM image(s) tend
to be related to our Novell Netware network, but there are problems with the
OS itself also. We simply have many fewer problems with reformatted/fresh
installed boxes. This is especially true if one is adding on hardware or
software, after it leaves Dell. Especially if the hardware or software is a
bit unusual. As yours is.

You can be sure that Dell uses something like Norton Ghost to replicate disk
images. Potential problems come in when the target PC does not exactly match
the existing image. Sometimes the OS can correctly adjust, sometimes not.

Dell will never admit that there is a problem with their OEM image(s).

I suggest reformat and fresh install the OS, then use Norton Ghost to
replicate the image. This will give you the best reliability, and you will
be assured that you *know* what you have. Who knows exactly what Dell's OEM
image is.

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:36:12 GMT, "Jupiter Jones"
wrote:

Contact Dell and get the CD.

I am not the original owner and the person I got this system from
couldn't find their CD. And thus Dell refuses to even talk to me on
the phone.

Otherwise you could try Ebay for a Dell CD appropriate for your
computer.

That I could do.

Otherwise your options become limited because the Product Key on the
computer will probably not work with the wrong CD.

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:47:00 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

I have had no difficulty whatsoever using the "Dell Restore" CD to install
Windows on another brand of computer with its own XP Certificate of
Authorization, that convoluted 25 character gobbledygook code on the sticker.
This tells me that the Dell Restore CD is no different than your usual XP
install CD. This is the case for XP Home. Don't know about XP Pro.

Interesting. You would think that wouldn't work.


You should be able to use a garden-variety XP Home CD to reinstall the software
on your Dell, and the install should accept the product ID code on the sticker
on your computer.

Actually it's XP Pro, but I think the idea is the same.


But, as another posting stated, call Dell and request the restore CD. I wonder
why you did not get one with your computer? They seem to be part of the

See my other reply.

standard package with all Dells. While you're at it, go on line at
www.dell.com , enter in the computer serial "number" and see what shipped with
the computer initially... Ben Myers

That is also something I can do. Thanks.

If I sound a bit newbie-ish, it's because I've built all my own
(desktop) systems for the past almost 20 years. All my vendor-made
systems have been at work, where there is an IT department to deal
with all these issues, fortunately.



On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:13:41 -0700, Winey wrote:

I just re-read this note, and I do need to ask a question.

I have a Dell Latitude D600, no SCSI there, but I do need to fix some
problems by re-imaging. However, Dell support told me that I can't
simply use the Windows product code that is on the sticker on the
bottom of the system, because it is Dell-specific and would work only
with a Dell-supplied install CD, which I do not have.

I don't want to buy another copy of Win XP, just to fix some nagging
problems. Any way around this problem?



On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 01:27:50 GMT, "Jay Bollyn"
wrote:

"Daniel P. B. Smith" wrote in message
e.com...
The company I work for manufactures a (big, expensive) device with a
SCSI interface. In some cases, we buy PC platforms, install our
software, test, and ship a turnkey system to our customers. Usually
the platform is a built-to-order Dell. The OS is Windows NT 4.0 SP 6.
There's nothing very special about the build-to-order specs, but we do
call for certain disk drives, a specific SCSI card (Adaptec 29160)
dedicated to our device, and so forth.

In the past year, we've encountered about half-a-dozen instances
(about 25%) in which we experience the following: open box, install
software, test, and see a mysterious failure that LOOKS like bad SCSI
hardware (or a bad driver or something like that). The failure is
always a hard failure. What's weird is it only affects certain
specific SCSI commands--certain specific CDB codes. Dozens of SCSI
commands are handled successfully, mode sense, mode select, inquiry,
test unit ready, etc. But when it gets to the first actual WRITE
command, it hangs. The first time we encountered this we tore our hair
out swapping cards, getting out the SCSI analyzer, checking driver
versions, having the EE's scope signals, etc. Nothing obviously wrong,
except it didn't work.

Six times out of six, reinstalling the OS (using the CD-ROM's supplied
by Dell with that particular PC) cured the problem.

Cured it permanently. Every single time. So far, anyway.

We haven't been able to pin down what's really happening. One of our
theories is that Dell does not actually install the OS but simply
clones a stock disk image--and that somehow the disk image isn't
always "right" for the built-to-order configuration. One engineer did
manage to capture the Registry before and after reinstallation and DID
see some evidence that the Registry was slightly mismatched to the
actual hardware before reinstallation. Of course, the puzzle then is
why this only happens about one time in four. Perhaps Dell is counting
on Windows PNP to automatically adapt itself to the added hardware,
and this works, but not reliably?

Anyone encounter anything like this? Any theories about what's
happening? Can't we assume that a vendor that lives by build-to-order
would know how to ship a preinstalled OS that's an adequate match for
the hardware they've installed?

The best way to get a reliable box is to reformat and fresh install the OS.
We have bought many Dells since NT4 was new. We don't use SCSI much, so I
can't comment on that specifically. Our problems with the OEM image(s) tend
to be related to our Novell Netware network, but there are problems with the
OS itself also. We simply have many fewer problems with reformatted/fresh
installed boxes. This is especially true if one is adding on hardware or
software, after it leaves Dell. Especially if the hardware or software is a
bit unusual. As yours is.

You can be sure that Dell uses something like Norton Ghost to replicate disk
images. Potential problems come in when the target PC does not exactly match
the existing image. Sometimes the OS can correctly adjust, sometimes not.

Dell will never admit that there is a problem with their OEM image(s).

I suggest reformat and fresh install the OS, then use Norton Ghost to
replicate the image. This will give you the best reliability, and you will
be assured that you *know* what you have. Who knows exactly what Dell's OEM
image is.