120 gb is the Largest hard drive I can put in my 4550?

"Cristian Croitoru" wrote in message ...

"Terry Collins" :

For home and SOHO and SME, IDE is probably quite okay.

But IDE isn't SCSI and without SCSI, you can not do RAID.

It really is a "business risk"
How much do you loose per hour when the computer system goes down?

Why do you say "without SCSI, you can not do RAID"?
We have here 4 separate RAID systems on IDE.. RAID 0, 1, 0/1 and 5
One has 1TB+ volume, six 200GB HDs on a six channel IDE controller

One of the advantages of SCSI against IDE is "command queuing"
This means that if the controller receives a number of commands and it is
more efficient (time wise) to process them in a different order, it will do that.

Parallel ATA can not do that

Some can.

BUT SATA will!

And it remains to be seen if it gets used much.

There is another solution I am looking into now: a self contained RAID
15 hotswap slots IDE enclosure that has a SCSI bridge so you can
extend your server with an external pseudo-SCSI massive store..

So there is scope..

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

" Miro" wrote in message
u...

"Phred" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David H. Lipman" wrote:
"Tom Scales" wrote in message
...
| "David H. Lipman" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Go RAID 5 and SCSI and you will not have the artificial barriers
| of IDE hard disk controllers. Plus you a very reliable and very
| fast disk sub-system.
|
| That's ridiculous. A $900 computer and $1500 worth of disk.
| 250GB works fine in a 4550.

Except...

You are not taking into account; the importance of the data, the
reliability
factor and the sheer speed that RAID 5 provides.

I can understand your enthusiasm for a RAID system that provides data
redundancy, but do you need to run a SCSI system to do this?

I have the impression from comments elsewhere in recent times that
modern IDE drives are perfectly adequate and SCSI is quite simply
over-priced, perhaps even over-rated, in comparison these days?

Lots of photographers run 100's of gigs and there
is nothing they can do to keep it smaller. Digital Pro
photography has been one application for RAID systems.

Yes, but thats a separate issue to expensive SCSI RAID5.

Only a very elite number of IDE models have "enterprise" tags

Mindless wanking. And a digital photographer is
nothing like a typical desktop system usage anyway.

- which means they are as close to bullet-proof
as an IDE drive can be in 2003.

Or its just more mindless wanking that
fools like you are stupid enough to buy.

Enterprise drives are nearly the same
cost as decent SCSI drives anyhow.

Yep, there are actually fools as stupid as you around.

It is simply that IDE works on more standard
and less expensive motherboards.

It is simply that anyone with a clue has noticed that IDE is the
only thing that makes any sense on personal desktop system.

SATA is another thing to look at. SATA Raid
is now making a strong appearance.

More wanking on those last two words.

As for the HD being more expensive than PC ......
it used to be the other way around and back then the
machines were nowhere as impressive as they are now.

All completely and utterly irrelevant to how much sense
those numbers make today for personal desktop system.


You should be writing for Woody Allen ... except he uses the up-market
phrase "masturbation"

Are you sure you didnt go to a boarding school ?

" Miro" wrote in message
u...

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

" Miro" wrote in message
u...

"Phred" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David H. Lipman" wrote:
"Tom Scales" wrote in message
...
| "David H. Lipman" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Go RAID 5 and SCSI and you will not have the artificial
barriers
| of IDE hard disk controllers. Plus you a very reliable and
very
| fast disk sub-system.
|
| That's ridiculous. A $900 computer and $1500 worth of disk.
| 250GB works fine in a 4550.

Except...

You are not taking into account; the importance of the data, the
reliability
factor and the sheer speed that RAID 5 provides.

I can understand your enthusiasm for a RAID system that provides
data
redundancy, but do you need to run a SCSI system to do this?

I have the impression from comments elsewhere in recent times that
modern IDE drives are perfectly adequate and SCSI is quite simply
over-priced, perhaps even over-rated, in comparison these days?

Lots of photographers run 100's of gigs and there
is nothing they can do to keep it smaller. Digital Pro
photography has been one application for RAID systems.

Yes, but thats a separate issue to expensive SCSI RAID5.

Only a very elite number of IDE models have "enterprise" tags

Mindless wanking. And a digital photographer is
nothing like a typical desktop system usage anyway.

- which means they are as close to bullet-proof
as an IDE drive can be in 2003.

Or its just more mindless wanking that
fools like you are stupid enough to buy.

Enterprise drives are nearly the same
cost as decent SCSI drives anyhow.

Yep, there are actually fools as stupid as you around.

It is simply that IDE works on more standard
and less expensive motherboards.

It is simply that anyone with a clue has noticed that IDE is the
only thing that makes any sense on personal desktop system.

SATA is another thing to look at. SATA Raid
is now making a strong appearance.

More wanking on those last two words.

As for the HD being more expensive than PC ......
it used to be the other way around and back then the
machines were nowhere as impressive as they are now.

All completely and utterly irrelevant to how much sense
those numbers make today for personal desktop system.


You should be writing for Woody Allen ... except he uses the up-market
phrase "masturbation"

Are you sure you didnt go to a boarding school ?


I doubt he went to school much at all, one reason why he is trying to blind
us all with his boring and often inaccurate rhetoric that he uses to try to
cover up the fact that Rod is a sexually frustrated compulsive masturbator
that can't get it up without the use of sexual aids like Viagra.

Now, now....
We are talking about hard disks not floppy disks.

Rod just thinks "personal computer" and is in a box of thought. He can't get out. He can't
see the trees through the forest.

He seems to forget Dell makes Enterprise solutions not just home computer products.
He obviously never worked for a VAR or for a Fortune 100 IT group.

Dave :-)


"Clockmeister" wrote in message
...
|
| " Miro" wrote in message
| u...
|
| "Rod Speed" wrote in message
| ...
|
| " Miro" wrote in message
| u...
|
| "Phred" wrote in message
| ...
| In article ,
| "David H. Lipman" wrote:
| "Tom Scales" wrote in message
| ...
| | "David H. Lipman" wrote in message
| | ...
| |
| | Go RAID 5 and SCSI and you will not have the artificial
| barriers
| | of IDE hard disk controllers. Plus you a very reliable and
| very
| | fast disk sub-system.
| |
| | That's ridiculous. A $900 computer and $1500 worth of disk.
| | 250GB works fine in a 4550.
|
| Except...
|
| You are not taking into account; the importance of the data, the
| reliability
| factor and the sheer speed that RAID 5 provides.
|
| I can understand your enthusiasm for a RAID system that provides
| data
| redundancy, but do you need to run a SCSI system to do this?
|
| I have the impression from comments elsewhere in recent times that
| modern IDE drives are perfectly adequate and SCSI is quite simply
| over-priced, perhaps even over-rated, in comparison these days?
|
| Lots of photographers run 100's of gigs and there
| is nothing they can do to keep it smaller. Digital Pro
| photography has been one application for RAID systems.
|
| Yes, but thats a separate issue to expensive SCSI RAID5.
|
| Only a very elite number of IDE models have "enterprise" tags
|
| Mindless wanking. And a digital photographer is
| nothing like a typical desktop system usage anyway.
|
| - which means they are as close to bullet-proof
| as an IDE drive can be in 2003.
|
| Or its just more mindless wanking that
| fools like you are stupid enough to buy.
|
| Enterprise drives are nearly the same
| cost as decent SCSI drives anyhow.
|
| Yep, there are actually fools as stupid as you around.
|
| It is simply that IDE works on more standard
| and less expensive motherboards.
|
| It is simply that anyone with a clue has noticed that IDE is the
| only thing that makes any sense on personal desktop system.
|
| SATA is another thing to look at. SATA Raid
| is now making a strong appearance.
|
| More wanking on those last two words.
|
| As for the HD being more expensive than PC ......
| it used to be the other way around and back then the
| machines were nowhere as impressive as they are now.
|
| All completely and utterly irrelevant to how much sense
| those numbers make today for personal desktop system.
|
|
| You should be writing for Woody Allen ... except he uses the up-market
| phrase "masturbation"
|
| Are you sure you didnt go to a boarding school ?
|
|
| I doubt he went to school much at all, one reason why he is trying to blind
| us all with his boring and often inaccurate rhetoric that he uses to try to
| cover up the fact that Rod is a sexually frustrated compulsive masturbator
| that can't get it up without the use of sexual aids like Viagra.
|
|
|

Some pathetic little pig ignorant ****** desperately cowering behind
Miro desperately attempted to bull**** its way
out of its predicament, yet again, in message
u...
and fooled absolutely no one at all. As always.

David H. Lipman wrote in
message ...

He seems to forget Dell makes Enterprise
solutions not just home computer products.

Even you should be able to bull**** your way out of your
predicament better than that pathetic effort, Lipman.

Pity that it was a 4550 that was actually being discussed.

Reams of your desperate attempts to bull**** your way
out of your predicament flushed where it belongs.

And what does the model 4550 have to do with it ?

It is a computing platform, it has a CPU and RAM and processes using a high level GUI based
operating system.
So what's your point ?

You should have seen what I was doing with IBM286 based MCA based platforms.

Dave




"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
|
| David H. Lipman wrote in
| message ...
|
| He seems to forget Dell makes Enterprise
| solutions not just home computer products.
|
| Even you should be able to bull**** your way out of your
| predicament better than that pathetic effort, Lipman.
|
| Pity that it was a 4550 that was actually being discussed.
|
| Reams of your desperate attempts to bull**** your way
| out of your predicament flushed where it belongs.
|
|

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

David H. Lipman wrote
in message ...

How many RAID 5 systems have you
setup and how often have you used SCSI ?

All completely and utterly irrelevant to that basic value for money
question being discussed with normal desktop systems.

Agreed. Using SCSI drives on a home system is like chartering an airplane
to take you across the street. IDE drives are fast enough and reliable
enough, especially with the security of RAID 5. SCSI drives might be a few
percent faster, but can cost more than twice as much.

David H. Lipman wrote
in message ...

And what does the model 4550 have to do with it ?

Its the system being discussed where the
cost of RAID5 SCSI cant be justified, fool.

It is a computing platform, it has a CPU and RAM and
processes using a high level GUI based operating system.

And is a fairly basic desktop system
where IDE is perfectly adequate, fool.

So what's your point ?

Even you should be able to bull**** you way out of your
predicament better than that pathetic effort, Lipman.

You should have seen what I was doing
with IBM286 based MCA based platforms.

This is where we're all supposed to swoon is it Lipman ?

Aint got the remotest relevance to what makes sense on
a 4550 TODAY, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** arstist.


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
|
| David H. Lipman wrote in
| message ...
|
| He seems to forget Dell makes Enterprise
| solutions not just home computer products.
|
| Even you should be able to bull**** your way out of your
| predicament better than that pathetic effort, Lipman.
|
| Pity that it was a 4550 that was actually being discussed.
|
| Reams of your desperate attempts to bull**** your way
| out of your predicament flushed where it belongs.
|
|

Speaking of speed and not being particularly familiar with the SCSI
protocol, my common sense tells me that having a stripe on a IDE
multichannel controller can push the speed quite some way..
Again my common sense tells me that a SCSI controller can not stream data
from more than one drive at a time, as only one drive can put data on the
bus at the same time
We have an experimental machine with a six way IDE controller with 128 MB on
controller cache with six 40 GB, set as a stripe. This is solely as a work
drive, as there is another drive on the main controller as system drive and
yet another one for swap only, each on it's own channel.
We have simulation software running on it, the machine is a dual AMD with 2
GB memory. It appears that running the model from the stripe makes the
system fully utilize the processing power, while running from a separate
drive shows clearly a bottle neck in the HD data transfer. Our consultants
love the machine because it performs the simulation about 3 times faster
than their laptops (2.6 with 1 GB RAM).
The 2.5" drives in the DELL laptops are pathetic. Using an external 3.5"
HD - firewire makes the system crunch the models about 50% faster. I have
also purchased a 7200 8MB 2.5" and replaced a 4500 (standard on DELL) but
the consultant using it found no gain from that (even a 5% decrease in
speed!!!) which I can not explain.

As mentioned in another mail when using hardware RAID (of any kind) I
strongly recommend refraining from converting the volume from "basic" to
"dynamic"; Promise controllers have the ability to use a drive as "hot
spare" but if you convert to dynamic and the RAID tries to switch on the
spare you will probably lose the data!
I am not too sure if this is the case for SCSI as well but I have added
another HD to a SCSI system and I can not make the spare to join the RAID
volume, I suspect is because the volume has been made dynamic previously. I
should probably read more about it but time is at a premium for me.

Anyway, I thought it would be good to share this information with the people
reading this newsgroup.
And all (decent) comments are most welcome

Cristian Croitoru

"That Guy" :
Agreed. Using SCSI drives on a home system is like chartering an airplane
to take you across the street. IDE drives are fast enough and reliable
enough, especially with the security of RAID 5. SCSI drives might be a
few
percent faster, but can cost more than twice as much.