Changing 'default' FSB speed with Tualatin?

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:40:06 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:

I got a Slot-T today and fiited it into my only MSI 6163 Pro 440BX mobo of
the three I have that *doesn't* have bulging caps. At default (14 x 100) I
got 110 marks! That is good huh? BX does indeed rock!

nice & Ok!

. I don't think I'll even
try 115Mhz FSB (the next available setting) as I don't think it will give a
great improvement in CPU marks and will put my PCI/AGP busses even further
out-of-spec. Well, maybe I will. :-) 1.6Ghz sounds good to me. Maybe I'll
need to raise vcore a bit though....

do not exagerate & leave it like this ... not to overheat mosfets &
caps; problems will start to manifest after a year or so if not
replaced caps & voltage regulators with stronger ones!

rather tweak your sistem with this from my archive:
BX lovers with Tuallies, here is a "present" :-) ...
http://users.volja.net/jerman55/440BXNBT230.zip
(with proper settings, the sistem can be speeded up to 10% or even
more...)

MBM5 is giving me a vcore of 1.47v with the jumpers on the Slot-T set to
1.5v. Seems fine though....

mine is same here too, thats because Tuallies would need stronger
watts mosfets & higher capacity caps ...

I also lowered Vtt from 1,47 to 1,41V (added 68ohm resistor on the
one LM voltage reg close to Cpu Fan header to its control terminal
left pin & connected it to the Gnd, ... Cpu heats for about 0,5°C
less read from its onDie diode (my "gadget"!), barelly noticable but
prevents "my" extreme (CPUburn suite) test to quit time to time ...
Thats because my Cpu is at default voltage & with that program
Vcore falled too much below Vtt (not good, sporadic data corruption!
can occur)

I hot-glued a 40mm fan to the back of the case,
just above the I/O shield as the FET's behind the slot were getting
uncomfortably hot. It seems to have cooled them considerably....

wise thing that you have done that! ... I did the same few days ago
additionally....

my time ago research thru Web showed that BX is superior in
performance to any Tuallie native chipset:
approx. beter than i815epT 10%, 20% better than Via or Sis, 25% or
more better than **** Ali ones ... more or less ...

PS.: U do not need to reply 2 my mail I send it yesterday 2 U ...

I already fixed my MoBo (hope finally for next problematic caps, there
are some still original ones there left) after that encountered
lightning hit ... & problems manifested later:

left mem chips on slots & NB, Q47 & EC13 are not heating so much now
after again replacing EC13 again with bigger one; damn, previously
8months before already replaced! this is Ram supply cap ... & ...
¤ß�÷׸¨ˇ^`˛°**** ... was even not bulged yet !!!

Everything back to normal (knock knock!); it would be time to update
my site with new pics too, but I am a bit lazy with the summer temps
here we have ... (I have an AirConditioner, but anyway ...)

.... I am really sick & tired of mounting & dismounting my machine
lately ... :-/ I hope that the lightning strike did not damage my
rams further ...

... now I have to repair my surgeProtector (change MOVs inside for
mains with such strong shock they got, they are not reliable any more)
to be able to do its work properly again....
(to save money w/o replacing it with a new one; I have a lot of new
proper MOVs laying around here :-) ... uf, what a week ...
--
Regards, SPAJKY ®
& visit my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
"Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##

Spajky wrote:

PS.: U do not need to reply 2 my mail I send it yesterday 2 U ...

I only noticed it an hour ago and have written you a reply already. I don't
check the Yahoo account often.
--
~misfit~

Spajky wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:11:51 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:
I have a 1.2Ghz one arriving tomorrow ..

not a good choice ...

It's free.

Unfortunately that'll put my AGP way out-of-spec but I can always
run an old PCI video card in it I guess,.....

After getting the 1.4 to do 1.61 I'm hoping the 1.2 will handle a 133FSB.
--
~misfit~

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 03:10:25 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:

PS.: U do not need to reply 2 my mail I send it yesterday 2 U ...

I only noticed it an hour ago and have written you a reply already. I don't
check the Yahoo account often.

Thanks anyway; hope you will be lucky with that 1,2@1,6; cheers ..
--
Regards, SPAJKY ®
& visit my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
"Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##

Spajky wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:40:06 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:


I got a Slot-T today and fiited it into my only MSI 6163 Pro 440BX mobo of
the three I have that *doesn't* have bulging caps. At default (14 x 100) I
got 110 marks! That is good huh? BX does indeed rock!


nice & Ok!


. I don't think I'll even
try 115Mhz FSB (the next available setting) as I don't think it will give a
great improvement in CPU marks and will put my PCI/AGP busses even further
out-of-spec. Well, maybe I will. :-) 1.6Ghz sounds good to me. Maybe I'll
need to raise vcore a bit though....


do not exagerate & leave it like this ... not to overheat mosfets &
caps; problems will start to manifest after a year or so if not
replaced caps & voltage regulators with stronger ones!

It really depends on the board - my P2B systems have run 7x24 for over 2
years with no sign of problems. The FETs and caps don't even get hot (no
extra cooling or sinks), just don't touch the clock chip at 150Mhz FSB!

Keep in mind the Tualatin only draws slightly more power than a Katmai
P3 600 - so if the board was *properly* designed to power a Katmai, it
should handle a Tualatin.

rather tweak your sistem with this from my archive:
BX lovers with Tuallies, here is a "present" :-) ...
http://users.volja.net/jerman55/440BXNBT230.zip
(with proper settings, the sistem can be speeded up to 10% or even
more...)


MBM5 is giving me a vcore of 1.47v with the jumpers on the Slot-T set to
1.5v. Seems fine though....


mine is same here too, thats because Tuallies would need stronger
watts mosfets & higher capacity caps ...

I also lowered Vtt from 1,47 to 1,41V (added 68ohm resistor on the
one LM voltage reg close to Cpu Fan header to its control terminal
left pin & connected it to the Gnd, ... Cpu heats for about 0,5°C
less read from its onDie diode (my "gadget"!), barelly noticable but
prevents "my" extreme (CPUburn suite) test to quit time to time ...
Thats because my Cpu is at default voltage & with that program
Vcore falled too much below Vtt (not good, sporadic data corruption!
can occur)

You can reduce Vtt further - BX chipset runs just fine with Vtt=1.25v.
My systems run Vcore=1.4v, Vtt=1.3v.

I hot-glued a 40mm fan to the back of the case,
just above the I/O shield as the FET's behind the slot were getting
uncomfortably hot. It seems to have cooled them considerably....


wise thing that you have done that! ... I did the same few days ago
additionally....

my time ago research thru Web showed that BX is superior in
performance to any Tuallie native chipset:
approx. beter than i815epT 10%, 20% better than Via or Sis, 25% or
more better than **** Ali ones ... more or less ...

PS.: U do not need to reply 2 my mail I send it yesterday 2 U ...

I already fixed my MoBo (hope finally for next problematic caps, there
are some still original ones there left) after that encountered
lightning hit ... & problems manifested later:

left mem chips on slots & NB, Q47 & EC13 are not heating so much now
after again replacing EC13 again with bigger one; damn, previously
8months before already replaced! this is Ram supply cap ... & ...
¤ß�÷׸¨ˇ^`˛°**** ... was even not bulged yet !!!

Everything back to normal (knock knock!); it would be time to update
my site with new pics too, but I am a bit lazy with the summer temps
here we have ... (I have an AirConditioner, but anyway ...)

... I am really sick & tired of mounting & dismounting my machine
lately ... :-/ I hope that the lightning strike did not damage my
rams further ...

... now I have to repair my surgeProtector (change MOVs inside for
mains with such strong shock they got, they are not reliable any more)
to be able to do its work properly again....
(to save money w/o replacing it with a new one; I have a lot of new
proper MOVs laying around here :-) ... uf, what a week ...

P2B wrote:


Spajky wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:40:06 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:


I got a Slot-T today and fiited it into my only MSI 6163 Pro 440BX
mobo of
the three I have that *doesn't* have bulging caps. At default (14 x
100) I
got 110 marks! That is good huh? BX does indeed rock!



nice & Ok!


. I don't think I'll even
try 115Mhz FSB (the next available setting) as I don't think it will
give a
great improvement in CPU marks and will put my PCI/AGP busses even
further
out-of-spec. Well, maybe I will. :-) 1.6Ghz sounds good to me. Maybe
I'll
need to raise vcore a bit though....



do not exagerate & leave it like this ... not to overheat mosfets &
caps; problems will start to manifest after a year or so if not
replaced caps & voltage regulators with stronger ones!


It really depends on the board - my P2B systems have run 7x24 for over 2
years with no sign of problems. The FETs and caps don't even get hot (no
extra cooling or sinks), just don't touch the clock chip at 150Mhz FSB!

Keep in mind the Tualatin only draws slightly more power than a Katmai
P3 600 - so if the board was *properly* designed to power a Katmai, it
should handle a Tualatin.

It isn't (processor) 'power', per see, that's the problem with the
regulators, it's the *current*.

35 watts at 2 volts is 17.5 amps but at 1.5 volts it's 23.3 amps, or 33%
more than it was 'designed for'.

David Maynard wrote:

P2B wrote:



Spajky wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:40:06 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:


I got a Slot-T today and fiited it into my only MSI 6163 Pro 440BX
mobo of
the three I have that *doesn't* have bulging caps. At default (14 x
100) I
got 110 marks! That is good huh? BX does indeed rock!




nice & Ok!


. I don't think I'll even
try 115Mhz FSB (the next available setting) as I don't think it will
give a
great improvement in CPU marks and will put my PCI/AGP busses even
further
out-of-spec. Well, maybe I will. :-) 1.6Ghz sounds good to me. Maybe
I'll
need to raise vcore a bit though....




do not exagerate & leave it like this ... not to overheat mosfets &
caps; problems will start to manifest after a year or so if not
replaced caps & voltage regulators with stronger ones!



It really depends on the board - my P2B systems have run 7x24 for over
2 years with no sign of problems. The FETs and caps don't even get hot
(no extra cooling or sinks), just don't touch the clock chip at 150Mhz
FSB!

Keep in mind the Tualatin only draws slightly more power than a Katmai
P3 600 - so if the board was *properly* designed to power a Katmai, it
should handle a Tualatin.


It isn't (processor) 'power', per see, that's the problem with the
regulators, it's the *current*.

35 watts at 2 volts is 17.5 amps but at 1.5 volts it's 23.3 amps, or 33%
more than it was 'designed for'.

I agree with your calculations, but my understanding is it's overheating
that causes the demise of these components over the medium term - and I
would expect temperature to be proportional to power dissipated, i.e. 35
watts in both cases.

I would expect failure to occur in a matter of hours, perhaps days, if
the current rating of any component was significantly exceeded - I've
seen pictures of Abit BX boards that died spectacularly shortly after
being asked to run a Tualatin.

Spajky wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 03:10:25 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:

PS.: U do not need to reply 2 my mail I send it yesterday 2 U ...

I only noticed it an hour ago and have written you a reply already.
I don't check the Yahoo account often.

Thanks anyway; hope you will be lucky with that 1,2@1,6; cheers ..

It's been running fine for quite a while now. I'm quite happy with it.

Cheers,
--
~misfit~

P2B wrote:


David Maynard wrote:

P2B wrote:



Spajky wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:40:06 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote:


I got a Slot-T today and fiited it into my only MSI 6163 Pro 440BX
mobo of
the three I have that *doesn't* have bulging caps. At default (14 x
100) I
got 110 marks! That is good huh? BX does indeed rock!





nice & Ok!


. I don't think I'll even
try 115Mhz FSB (the next available setting) as I don't think it
will give a
great improvement in CPU marks and will put my PCI/AGP busses even
further
out-of-spec. Well, maybe I will. :-) 1.6Ghz sounds good to me.
Maybe I'll
need to raise vcore a bit though....





do not exagerate & leave it like this ... not to overheat mosfets &
caps; problems will start to manifest after a year or so if not
replaced caps & voltage regulators with stronger ones!




It really depends on the board - my P2B systems have run 7x24 for
over 2 years with no sign of problems. The FETs and caps don't even
get hot (no extra cooling or sinks), just don't touch the clock chip
at 150Mhz FSB!

Keep in mind the Tualatin only draws slightly more power than a
Katmai P3 600 - so if the board was *properly* designed to power a
Katmai, it should handle a Tualatin.



It isn't (processor) 'power', per see, that's the problem with the
regulators, it's the *current*.

35 watts at 2 volts is 17.5 amps but at 1.5 volts it's 23.3 amps, or
33% more than it was 'designed for'.


I agree with your calculations, but my understanding is it's overheating
that causes the demise of these components over the medium term - and I
would expect temperature to be proportional to power dissipated, i.e. 35
watts in both cases.

Well, yes, it's the 'power' but not the processor's power. It's the current
through the FETs, which causes voltage drop across them (due to their RDSon
resistance), which is power.

Say it's RDSon is .02 ('typical' for my BH6 FET with 5V gate). That would
be (P = I^2 x R) 23.2^2 x .02 = 10.8578 watts (average).

Something not shown in the 'average' power is the peak switching current.

I would expect failure to occur in a matter of hours, perhaps days, if
the current rating of any component was significantly exceeded

Not necessarily. Depends on ambient, CPU load (how long do most people run
it full out?), etc.

My BH6 was fine till room ambient, plus it being confined under a desk,
went up 5C (last year).

I think the now 'repaired' BH6 would be fine even then because I replaced
the FET with one that has an RDSon of .008.

- I've
seen pictures of Abit BX boards that died spectacularly shortly after
being asked to run a Tualatin.


I don't doubt it.

Of course, there could be other reasons why one failed. Maybe the Vreg
didn't understand the Vcore setting, etc.

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:11:45 -0400, P2B wrote:

It really depends on the board - my P2B systems have run 7x24 for over 2
years with no sign of problems. The FETs and caps don't even get hot (no
extra cooling or sinks), just don't touch the clock chip at 150Mhz FSB!

yep depends on the board; on the contrary with MS6163pro; but there is
no overheating of a clock chip @ 155MHz on this particular MoBo!
(& I am running ALL my fans @ 5V or even a bit less)
But P2B is a "mitic" Asus hell-of-a-board (best quality of that time)
now they do not make boards that can last so anymore ... :-(

Keep in mind the Tualatin only draws slightly more power than a Katmai
P3 600 - so if the board was *properly* designed to power a Katmai, it
should handle a Tualatin.

not necessary; voltage & current on mosfets with Tuallies is enough
bigger that can overheat if are weaker ones; on my MoBo they are
75W/52A ones; for example other spare I have (canibalized from EpoxBX6
non CuMine ready) are 100W/65A ones & heat much less!

You can reduce Vtt further - BX chipset runs just fine with Vtt=1.25v.
My systems run Vcore=1.4v, Vtt=1.3v.

I know (I´ve tested with 1,22 Vtt) but dont´t wanna go lower, since
time to time I test even some old Mendocino ones on my board
occasionally ...
--
Regards, SPAJKY ®
& visit my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
"Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##