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#1
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Monitor fed by VGA and DVI-D thru KVM
Can I use a splitter (DVI-I to DVI-D & VGA) on my monitor (Philips
200W6), and attach a KVM switch, so I can I pump either VGA or DVI from the KVM and have monitor auto-select the input? [LCDMonitor -- Philips 200W6] DVI-D VGA | | --------- | DVI-I | [KVM switch -- TRENnet TK-404KR] | | | | DVI-D DVI-D DVI-A DVI-A | | VGA VGA PC PC | | PC PC Here's why: I have a VGA HD15 D-sub KVM now. I just built a fast system with DVI, and bought a 1680x1050 LCD monitor. So, I'd like to feed the LCD with DVI from my two most used systems, but VGA from my two older systems. The trouble with plugging in the new DVI box into the DVI input and the VGA KVM into the VGA input is... switching the input manually on the Monitor takes 12 menu button pushes, AND having multiple VGA signals means that I have to adjust the phase every time I switch VGA inputs (phase is out of whack). To solve this second problem I would put a DVI video card into my second most used system, so VGA would be used only on the 3rd and 4th PCs. The Philips 200W6 has two inputs: DVI-D and VGA. It will auto-sense and switch inputs if the active signal goes away. So if I feed DVI-D and VGA from a splitter cable, they monitor should auto-sense and switch inputs, right? I just need to know if I can put a splitter cable on the two Philips inputs -- such as this one http://www.cbbstore.com/retail/shop/...=5593&src=1001 -- and plug that into a DVI-I KVM switch without frying the monitor. This is the KVM I would use: http://www.trendnet.com/products/TK-404KR.htm Is this splitter setup commonly used (known to work) or am I breaking new ground? Jaz (Please excuse the 'burp' when replying (b)) |
#2
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Monitor fed by VGA and DVI-D thru KVM
Reality folded in on itself, and somewhere the following words from
"Jaz" appeared in history: Can I use a splitter (DVI-I to DVI-D & VGA) on my monitor (Philips 200W6), and attach a KVM switch, so I can I pump either VGA or DVI from the KVM and have monitor auto-select the input? Possably... http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-dvi-cables.htm DVI/VGA adapters don't convert anything they just re-wire things, but if you find the right VGA to DVI-I cable it may work out. You will have to double check with the maufature to see if the KVM is Dual-Link (switches both analog and digital) and use dual-link cables between the KVM and any adapters you use (that is a VERY SHORT DVI-I adapter). -- __ __| | __ __| | __ / | \ -_) | -_) _| \ / -_) _| _ \ _| _| _| \___| _| \___| \__| _| _| ____| \___| _| \___/ Lossing quality sleep to help others online since 1997... |
#3
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Monitor fed by VGA and DVI-D thru KVM
Tech Zero wrote:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-dvi-cables.htm I think dual-link refers to two digital channels, doubling the DVI-D data rate. Read more he http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/11/...ion/page8.html There's also some good info he http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/page/video And yes, I need the KVM to carry analog as well as digital -- the specs say : "DVI-I & DVI-D Compliant". And no, no conversion at here, just proper adapters and cables. I think the concept is sound, I'm just looking for people who have done this so I know it will work with the right hardware. Thanks! (Please excuse the 'burp' when replying (b)) |
#5
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Monitor fed by VGA and DVI-D thru KVM
(Paul) wrote:
In article , wrote: Can I use a splitter (DVI-I to DVI-D & VGA) on my monitor (Philips 200W6), and attach a KVM switch, so I can I pump either VGA or DVI from the KVM and have monitor auto-select the input? [LCDMonitor -- Philips 200W6] DVI-D VGA | | --------- | DVI-I | [KVM switch -- TRENnet TK-404KR] | | | | DVI-D DVI-D DVI-A DVI-A | | VGA VGA PC PC | | PC PC Here's why: I have a VGA HD15 D-sub KVM now. I just built a fast system with DVI, and bought a 1680x1050 LCD monitor. So, I'd like to feed the LCD with DVI from my two most used systems, but VGA from my two older systems. The trouble with plugging in the new DVI box into the DVI input and the VGA KVM into the VGA input is... switching the input manually on the Monitor takes 12 menu button pushes, AND having multiple VGA signals means that I have to adjust the phase every time I switch VGA inputs (phase is out of whack). To solve this second problem I would put a DVI video card into my second most used system, so VGA would be used only on the 3rd and 4th PCs. The Philips 200W6 has two inputs: DVI-D and VGA. It will auto-sense and switch inputs if the active signal goes away. So if I feed DVI-D and VGA from a splitter cable, they monitor should auto-sense and switch inputs, right? I just need to know if I can put a splitter cable on the two Philips inputs -- such as this one http://www.cbbstore.com/retail/shop/...=5593&src=1001 -- and plug that into a DVI-I KVM switch without frying the monitor. This is the KVM I would use: http://www.trendnet.com/products/TK-404KR.htm Is this splitter setup commonly used (known to work) or am I breaking new ground? Jaz (Please excuse the 'burp' when replying (b)) The Trendnet folks are careful in that advert, not to mention VGA. You can _plug_ a DVI-I signal into the box, but I suspect only the digital portion is handled by the Trendnet product. I think the analog portion is ignored. In other words, the two right hand PCs are not going to get their VGA signals through the Trendnet box. I spoke to TRENDnet today and they said "DVI-I is analog and digital so the TK-404KR does support both (DVI-I and DVI-A)." I was sure to drive the point home that I would need it to pass the analog signals over DVI-I. The tech checked with 2nd teir support twice and verified. So the question is whether this splitter setup between the KVM out and the two monitor inputs will do what I'm suggesting. (Please excuse the 'burp' when replying (b)) |
#6
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Monitor fed by VGA and DVI-D thru KVM
In article ,
wrote: I spoke to TRENDnet today and they said "DVI-I is analog and digital so the TK-404KR does support both (DVI-I and DVI-A)." I was sure to drive the point home that I would need it to pass the analog signals over DVI-I. The tech checked with 2nd teir support twice and verified. So the question is whether this splitter setup between the KVM out and the two monitor inputs will do what I'm suggesting. These are the only reviews I can find: http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRa...82E16817107256 OK, Let's try this another way. Pretend the product implements switching with mechanical relays. There are some very nice miniature RF relays that could be used to route signals. What such a box would lack, is translation from one standard to another. Considering the price is $150, about all they could afford to put in there is some relays. The box topology would look like this: VGA_Out_Pins DVI_Out_Pins | | | | (relays) (relays) / | | \ / | | \ | | | | | | | | Four comps' VGA pins Four comps' DVI-D pins What this would mean to you, is when you switch from a VGA output computer, to the DVI-D output computer, you still need to visit the Philips 200W6 and switch it between the digital and analog input connectors. I cannot buy that the Trendnet box is able to convert, in an arbitrary manner, digital or analog input on any of the four channels, into any old digital or analog output standard. Translating from digital to analog formats or vice versa, is not free, and has a significant parts cost. It would be easier, for the Trendnet box to support two separate networks, one for the VGA analog signals, and another for the digital TMDS diff pairs, but four channels of translation from one standard to the other cannot be included for a $150 retail box cost. Just my best guess, Paul |
#7
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Monitor fed by VGA and DVI-D thru KVM
(Paul) wrote:
In article , wrote: I spoke to TRENDnet today and they said "DVI-I is analog and digital so the TK-404KR does support both (DVI-I and DVI-A)." I was sure to drive the point home that I would need it to pass the analog signals over DVI-I. The tech checked with 2nd teir support twice and verified. So the question is whether this splitter setup between the KVM out and the two monitor inputs will do what I'm suggesting. These are the only reviews I can find: http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRa...82E16817107256 OK, Let's try this another way. Pretend the product implements switching with mechanical relays. There are some very nice miniature RF relays that could be used to route signals. What such a box would lack, is translation from one standard to another. Considering the price is $150, about all they could afford to put in there is some relays. The box topology would look like this: VGA_Out_Pins DVI_Out_Pins | | | | (relays) (relays) / | | \ / | | \ | | | | | | | | Four comps' VGA pins Four comps' DVI-D pins What this would mean to you, is when you switch from a VGA output computer, to the DVI-D output computer, you still need to visit the Philips 200W6 and switch it between the digital and analog input connectors. I cannot buy that the Trendnet box is able to convert, in an arbitrary manner, digital or analog input on any of the four channels, into any old digital or analog output standard. Translating from digital to analog formats or vice versa, is not free, and has a significant parts cost. It would be easier, for the Trendnet box to support two separate networks, one for the VGA analog signals, and another for the digital TMDS diff pairs, but four channels of translation from one standard to the other cannot be included for a $150 retail box cost. Just my best guess, Paul No, I think you've read me all wrong. What I mean to do is simply route the vga and dvi signals over their respective paths... A VGA 15-pin d-sub cable carrys only an analog signal; the VGA input on the monitor only accomodates analog. The monotor's DVI-D input only accomodates digital (it is void of the analog pins). The KVM switch is equiped with DVI-I, which is both analog AND digital, by rights of having paths for all the pins on a DVI-I cable (analog and digital are carried on separate pins/wires). The TRENDnet folks have told me that it works with both digital and analog. Therefore, if the KVM is switched to a PC supplying VGA, then there should be a signal on ONLY the VGA pins of the KVM DVI-I out. And, by switching to a PC supplying DVI-D, there should be a siganl on ONLY the digital pins of the DVI-I out. Now, use the splitter cable I mention above, and as I switch between VGA and DVI-D PC, the video signal switches between the VGA and DVI-D sides of the splitter. Since there would be a signal on only one at a time, the monitor should do the input switching for me. One last thing, when I mentioned "adapters" I was only referring to a connector format change from 15-pin d-sub to DVI-I. This simply lets me plug a VGA cable into a DVI-I port on the KVM switch. These adapters are everywhere -- one comes included with almost all DVI video cards. Frankly, this discussion is helping gain confidence that this will work, so I'm going to place the order asap. Also because if this doesn't work then I'm going to need a different monitor -- one that has dedicated input select buttons. And please! Correct me if I'm wrong! Jaz (Please excuse the 'burp' when replying (b)) |
#8
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Monitor fed by VGA and DVI-D thru KVM
In article ,
wrote: (Paul) wrote: In article , wrote: I spoke to TRENDnet today and they said "DVI-I is analog and digital so the TK-404KR does support both (DVI-I and DVI-A)." I was sure to drive the point home that I would need it to pass the analog signals over DVI-I. The tech checked with 2nd teir support twice and verified. So the question is whether this splitter setup between the KVM out and the two monitor inputs will do what I'm suggesting. These are the only reviews I can find: http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRa...82E16817107256 OK, Let's try this another way. Pretend the product implements switching with mechanical relays. There are some very nice miniature RF relays that could be used to route signals. What such a box would lack, is translation from one standard to another. Considering the price is $150, about all they could afford to put in there is some relays. The box topology would look like this: VGA_Out_Pins DVI_Out_Pins | | | | (relays) (relays) / | | \ / | | \ | | | | | | | | Four comps' VGA pins Four comps' DVI-D pins What this would mean to you, is when you switch from a VGA output computer, to the DVI-D output computer, you still need to visit the Philips 200W6 and switch it between the digital and analog input connectors. I cannot buy that the Trendnet box is able to convert, in an arbitrary manner, digital or analog input on any of the four channels, into any old digital or analog output standard. Translating from digital to analog formats or vice versa, is not free, and has a significant parts cost. It would be easier, for the Trendnet box to support two separate networks, one for the VGA analog signals, and another for the digital TMDS diff pairs, but four channels of translation from one standard to the other cannot be included for a $150 retail box cost. Just my best guess, Paul No, I think you've read me all wrong. What I mean to do is simply route the vga and dvi signals over their respective paths... A VGA 15-pin d-sub cable carrys only an analog signal; the VGA input on the monitor only accomodates analog. The monotor's DVI-D input only accomodates digital (it is void of the analog pins). The KVM switch is equiped with DVI-I, which is both analog AND digital, by rights of having paths for all the pins on a DVI-I cable (analog and digital are carried on separate pins/wires). The TRENDnet folks have told me that it works with both digital and analog. Therefore, if the KVM is switched to a PC supplying VGA, then there should be a signal on ONLY the VGA pins of the KVM DVI-I out. And, by switching to a PC supplying DVI-D, there should be a siganl on ONLY the digital pins of the DVI-I out. Now, use the splitter cable I mention above, and as I switch between VGA and DVI-D PC, the video signal switches between the VGA and DVI-D sides of the splitter. Since there would be a signal on only one at a time, the monitor should do the input switching for me. One last thing, when I mentioned "adapters" I was only referring to a connector format change from 15-pin d-sub to DVI-I. This simply lets me plug a VGA cable into a DVI-I port on the KVM switch. These adapters are everywhere -- one comes included with almost all DVI video cards. Frankly, this discussion is helping gain confidence that this will work, so I'm going to place the order asap. Also because if this doesn't work then I'm going to need a different monitor -- one that has dedicated input select buttons. And please! Correct me if I'm wrong! Jaz OK. We seem to be in agreement :-) I guess the advertising text's insistence on not mentioning VGA is what put me off. The remaining thing that bothers me a bit, is what will happen to the DDC signals. There is a DDC clock and data digital signal, coming from the computer to the monitor. One of four computers will be selected, on the computer side of the Trendnet, which is fine. No problem there. On the monitor side, your splitter cable presumably will put the same DDC_clock and DDC_data signal, on both the analog and digital connectors on the monitor. The monitor should not really connect these signals together, because the monitor designer assumes two independent computers are driving the monitor analog and digital connector. That means the monitor will be queried for EDID information by both connectors at the same time. I believe the technology, is an I2C bus, and I think that is open collector. There would be no damage to the monitor with the DDC_data pins wired together (open collector logic is inherently safe against that kind of fault). The computer end may become confused about the available resolutions supported by the monitor, if there is a conflict between the two data pins driving the same DDC_data. Maybe if the bus address decode on the two connectors were different, then only one of the two DDC_data pins would respond with EDID information. So it might just magically work, and as I don't own any VESA standards, I cannot guess at the details of their implementation of I2C. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2C (clock and data pins) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel (data exchanged) I don't think this is a big deal, but if you notice that either your VGA or your DVI-D computers, don't seem to know the declared monitor type (they see it as "Default" or something), then you'll have some idea why it is happening. If the splitter cable routes the DDC signals to only one of the two connectors, then two of the computers would not get monitor type and resolution data. It might be a minor nuisance, but everything else should work. Paul |
#9
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Monitor fed by VGA and DVI-D thru KVM
(Paul) wrote:
In article , wrote: (Paul) wrote: In article , wrote: I spoke to TRENDnet today and they said "DVI-I is analog and digital so the TK-404KR does support both (DVI-I and DVI-A)." I was sure to drive the point home that I would need it to pass the analog signals over DVI-I. The tech checked with 2nd teir support twice and verified. So the question is whether this splitter setup between the KVM out and the two monitor inputs will do what I'm suggesting. These are the only reviews I can find: http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRa...82E16817107256 OK, Let's try this another way. Pretend the product implements switching with mechanical relays. There are some very nice miniature RF relays that could be used to route signals. What such a box would lack, is translation from one standard to another. Considering the price is $150, about all they could afford to put in there is some relays. The box topology would look like this: VGA_Out_Pins DVI_Out_Pins | | | | (relays) (relays) / | | \ / | | \ | | | | | | | | Four comps' VGA pins Four comps' DVI-D pins What this would mean to you, is when you switch from a VGA output computer, to the DVI-D output computer, you still need to visit the Philips 200W6 and switch it between the digital and analog input connectors. I cannot buy that the Trendnet box is able to convert, in an arbitrary manner, digital or analog input on any of the four channels, into any old digital or analog output standard. Translating from digital to analog formats or vice versa, is not free, and has a significant parts cost. It would be easier, for the Trendnet box to support two separate networks, one for the VGA analog signals, and another for the digital TMDS diff pairs, but four channels of translation from one standard to the other cannot be included for a $150 retail box cost. Just my best guess, Paul No, I think you've read me all wrong. What I mean to do is simply route the vga and dvi signals over their respective paths... A VGA 15-pin d-sub cable carrys only an analog signal; the VGA input on the monitor only accomodates analog. The monotor's DVI-D input only accomodates digital (it is void of the analog pins). The KVM switch is equiped with DVI-I, which is both analog AND digital, by rights of having paths for all the pins on a DVI-I cable (analog and digital are carried on separate pins/wires). The TRENDnet folks have told me that it works with both digital and analog. Therefore, if the KVM is switched to a PC supplying VGA, then there should be a signal on ONLY the VGA pins of the KVM DVI-I out. And, by switching to a PC supplying DVI-D, there should be a siganl on ONLY the digital pins of the DVI-I out. Now, use the splitter cable I mention above, and as I switch between VGA and DVI-D PC, the video signal switches between the VGA and DVI-D sides of the splitter. Since there would be a signal on only one at a time, the monitor should do the input switching for me. One last thing, when I mentioned "adapters" I was only referring to a connector format change from 15-pin d-sub to DVI-I. This simply lets me plug a VGA cable into a DVI-I port on the KVM switch. These adapters are everywhere -- one comes included with almost all DVI video cards. Frankly, this discussion is helping gain confidence that this will work, so I'm going to place the order asap. Also because if this doesn't work then I'm going to need a different monitor -- one that has dedicated input select buttons. And please! Correct me if I'm wrong! Jaz OK. We seem to be in agreement :-) I guess the advertising text's insistence on not mentioning VGA is what put me off. The remaining thing that bothers me a bit, is what will happen to the DDC signals. There is a DDC clock and data digital signal, coming from the computer to the monitor. One of four computers will be selected, on the computer side of the Trendnet, which is fine. No problem there. On the monitor side, your splitter cable presumably will put the same DDC_clock and DDC_data signal, on both the analog and digital connectors on the monitor. The monitor should not really connect these signals together, because the monitor designer assumes two independent computers are driving the monitor analog and digital connector. That means the monitor will be queried for EDID information by both connectors at the same time. I believe the technology, is an I2C bus, and I think that is open collector. There would be no damage to the monitor with the DDC_data pins wired together (open collector logic is inherently safe against that kind of fault). The computer end may become confused about the available resolutions supported by the monitor, if there is a conflict between the two data pins driving the same DDC_data. Maybe if the bus address decode on the two connectors were different, then only one of the two DDC_data pins would respond with EDID information. So it might just magically work, and as I don't own any VESA standards, I cannot guess at the details of their implementation of I2C. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2C (clock and data pins) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel (data exchanged) I don't think this is a big deal, but if you notice that either your VGA or your DVI-D computers, don't seem to know the declared monitor type (they see it as "Default" or something), then you'll have some idea why it is happening. If the splitter cable routes the DDC signals to only one of the two connectors, then two of the computers would not get monitor type and resolution data. It might be a minor nuisance, but everything else should work. Paul By George, er... Paul, I thnk you've got something! I don't have time to research this now, 'cept to say that this is cable I'm looking at: http://www.lindy.com/uk/productfolde...1219/index.php Now, Lindy's description for this cable is just what I'm proposing to do! I didn't know about this page until now, so I'm excited to have come accross it. More later... and thank you Paul. (Please excuse the 'burp' when replying (b)) |
#10
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Monitor fed by VGA and DVI-D thru KVM
Reality folded in on itself, and somewhere the following words from
"Jaz" appeared in history: One last thing, when I mentioned "adapters" I was only referring to a connector format change from 15-pin d-sub to DVI-I. This simply lets me plug a VGA cable into a DVI-I port on the KVM switch. These adapters are everywhere -- one comes included with almost all DVI video cards. Just to add to Paul's comments, at the "bolts" side of things as it where... The adapters that DVI-I cards have a male DVI-I connector with a female sub-D VGA at the other end, so to put it bluntly *the genders don't match there mate. Simple Rules: - Video cards have female connectors - Monitors have male connectors - Video cables only go in one direction This was origonaly done to differentate serial ports from video ports back in the CGA days, since they used the same style connectors. Video have as evolved since then but the gender diffrences remain. That said, there are DVI-A cables out there that may work; thay have a male VGA connector at one end and a female DVI-A connector at the other... But I don't know if they have nay issues... -- __ __| | __ __| | __ / | \ -_) | -_) _| \ / -_) _| _ \ _| _| _| \___| _| \___| \__| _| _| ____| \___| _| \___/ Lossing quality sleep to help others online since 1997... |
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