Computer speaker recommendations.

Michael Black wrote:

Go to a garage sale, buy a stereo amplifier or receiver for ten bucks.
Then buy small speakers, or big ones, either at a garage sale or new.
You'll get more for the money than buying something labelled as "computer
speakers".

But you won't have the shielding needed to prevent EMF induction to the
speakers (you'll hear noise in the amp/speakers when next to the
computer) and/or you'll induce EMF effects into your nearby computer
gear (CRTs will waver, don't know about LCDs but suspect not, hear
feedback from CD drive playback). "Computer" speakers are shielded
speakers. Entertainment speakers aren't shielded. Also, the cabling to
computer speakers is shielded versus plain speakers where you're
basically using lamp cord (2 unshielded wires) which means more likely
to pickup noise. The power supply in [good] computer speakers will
filter out line noise from the A/C power source versus amps that
typically end up picking up hum or ground loop noise.

Remember that consumer-grade computers are class B devices (and often
even worse than that rating) so they emit EMF. Unshielded speakers will
pickup noise from everywhe computer gear, line noise, nearby AM/FM
tower antennae, shortwave operator, and someone in your house using a
hair dryer. That's just about EMF induced into the speaker. Since the
speaker is a magnetic device, there's also the problem of magnetic
fields exiting the speaker enclosure. You could see if there are
magnetic shield kits for your unprotected speakers or make them
yourself, like with air duct caps (made of steel, not aluminum) but that
only covers the backside of the speaker. You would still have to
address the cable shielding. At that point, you might've as bought
"computer" speakers in the first place. Plus garage sale speakers and
amps tend to be poor quality as the kid that used them blasted them at
high volume all the time and the cone and flex membrane weather
(stiffens) with age so you lose the low end.

You might be lucky and be in an electrically quiet area but you might
not. Whether unshield speakers sound clean depends on where you are and
what's nearby and the quality of your line power and the amp to filter
out line noise.

John wrote:

For listening to the occasional MP3, sports video clips (like ESPN) and
such. The speakers on my LCD are pretty puny and not really loud enough
to hear much. I don't have a sound card so standard mother board
connections are all I have available. The mother board has VT1708
high-def with a 6-channel audio out I/O port.

If anyone has had good results with something in the $40 or less range I
would appreciate the info. A woofer would be nice but that may run more
than $40, still if a bit more $$ is a good investment I'm open to
suggestions.

Thanks,
John

My favorite here, is Altec ACS21W, for around $20 at your local recycler.
Not fancy, but not annoying either. Not an attempt at room-filling sound.

Of the two sets I bought, I had to repair one, by opening it up, which
was not an easy job. The PCB inside the amp, had horrible hand soldering,
similar to how those old $5 transistor radios were made. They haven't made
these speakers "in a hundred years", so it's not like you'll find them at
Best Buy. The plastic of the speaker casing is strong enough, you can stand
on it! You can't say that of too many plastic things you can buy today.
(Note to self - don't stand on the front grill :-) Turn the speakers
sideways, to stand on them.)

http://www.pcpartscollection.com/allaaccospsy.html

The nice thing about the sound, is I never needed to fiddle with
equalization with those. They were good as delivered. I've tried
my hand at building my own amp to drive passive speakers for the
computer room, and those need significant equalization to get
balanced sound.

What is interesting about the purchase of those, is first I did start
at the local big box stores. I spent a few days over a two week period,
visiting the stores and trying the computer speakers that were on display.
Whether the speakers were $39.95 or $139.95, they all had some kind of
obvious defect while reviewing them. And I wasn't going to spend $400
on some "7.1 gamer speakers with piston/boombox". Out of frustration, I
went to the local computer recycler, who carries end of line stuff
they get from other operations, and that's where I found their
stash of ACS21W new-in-box for $20. They're relatively low
power (a watt or two per speaker), but at least they're
better than anything you'd find on a laptop. I've spent many
hours gaming, with only those for sound.

If they still have a computer speaker section in a local store,
you'll be pretty disappointed with the results.

*******

This is the kit I used last year, to build my own amp. The idea was,
I had a couple sets of passive bookshelf speakers, and this amp was
an attempt to "recycle" a set of speakers and get some usage from them.

http://www.canakit.com/40w-bridged-s...194-uk194.html

That thing only gives "40W", if you push the max DC voltage on the DC
supply feeding the amp, while using low impedance speakers. The power
supply I provided the amp kit with, didn't meet that requirement
(my power transformer would have needed a secondary with a few more
winds on it, to do that). And the speakers were double the impedance
needed for decent power transfer. The end result, is with the volume
set at a non-distorting level, they aren't that much louder than
the ACS21W setup. So when you see a power rating on a kit like that,
take it with a grain of salt. Under reasonable conditions, you might
get nowhere close to the stated value. (Unless you happened
to snag a set of passive speakers of the correct impedance.)

An even better format for building your own, was the "hybrid brick"
format. Some of these may have come from Japan originally, and
there are a wide range of specs (some have pretty low distortion
specs, and the module with none of the infrastructure can be
$100-$150). My home stereo, the one that failed, used one of these
bricks inside, rather than the power section being built with discrete
parts. Note that some of these were popular enough, Chinese counterfeits
were made as a ripoff (frequently with poorer performance, due
to a lack of matched components inside). On a website that tracks
counterfeiting, at least one audio equipment manufacturer admitted
to buying 10,000 units of one of those counterfeits, that was made
by some fly-by-night outfit in China. And if you go to all the
trouble of selecting "a good one", that aspect always has to be
in the back of your mind - is it genuine or not. With that
cheesy kit I bought, there's no worry there - no fat profits,
to encourage counterfeiting.

http://www.rcrowley.com/Sanken/index.htm

Paul

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012, VanguardLH wrote:

Michael Black wrote:

Go to a garage sale, buy a stereo amplifier or receiver for ten bucks.
Then buy small speakers, or big ones, either at a garage sale or new.
You'll get more for the money than buying something labelled as "computer
speakers".

But you won't have the shielding needed to prevent EMF induction to the
speakers (you'll hear noise in the amp/speakers when next to the
computer) and/or you'll induce EMF effects into your nearby computer
gear (CRTs will waver, don't know about LCDs but suspect not, hear
feedback from CD drive playback). "Computer" speakers are shielded
speakers. Entertainment speakers aren't shielded. Also, the cabling to
computer speakers is shielded versus plain speakers where you're
basically using lamp cord (2 unshielded wires) which means more likely
to pickup noise. The power supply in [good] computer speakers will
filter out line noise from the A/C power source versus amps that
typically end up picking up hum or ground loop noise.

Fine, then buy good speakers that are shielded. The later variants of the
Minimus 7 from Radio Shack were shielded.

But you can also simply place the speakers further apart, like you would
with a real stereo system. I should point out that one reason cheap
computer speakers work is because they are being used close to the ears,
which means they don't have to handle much power, and the close coupling
to the ears allows the cheap speakers to "sound fine".

Wiring to speakers won't pick up noise, that's a low impedance out of the
amplifier and it just won't pick anything up, plus, there's nothing to
amplify that noise. You might as well complain about the signal into the
amplifier, or for that matter into "computer speakers" since that is a
high impedance line that will pick up hum, and then amplify it.

I should point out that since the computer itself is so noisy, chances
are more that somewhere in the soundcard it will pick up noise, rather
than the cable to the amplifier (or in your case, the "computer speaker").
There's nothing magical about "computer speakers" to eliminate that
problem of noise pickup, if it is such a noisy environment.

The power supplies for cheap computer speakers are likely to be bad, lack
of filtering and lack of regulation, they may even not provide enough
current for the amplifiers in the speakers. The average stereo receiver
is well designed and can handle much more power than most amplified
speakers. For that matter, you can get a stereo receiver for ten bucks,
that cost a few hundred to when new, while many of the computer speakers
people talk of buying have cheap speakers and cheap amplifiers, and
cost a lot less new.

Remember that consumer-grade computers are class B devices (and often
even worse than that rating) so they emit EMF. Unshielded speakers will
pickup noise from everywhe computer gear, line noise, nearby AM/FM
tower antennae, shortwave operator, and someone in your house using a
hair dryer. That's just about EMF induced into the speaker. Since the
speaker is a magnetic device, there's also the problem of magnetic
fields exiting the speaker enclosure. You could see if there are
magnetic shield kits for your unprotected speakers or make them
yourself, like with air duct caps (made of steel, not aluminum) but that
only covers the backside of the speaker. You would still have to
address the cable shielding. At that point, you might've as bought
"computer" speakers in the first place. Plus garage sale speakers and
amps tend to be poor quality as the kid that used them blasted them at
high volume all the time and the cone and flex membrane weather
(stiffens) with age so you lose the low end.

You don't understand the point of "shielded speakers". A good speaker has
a powerful magnet in it, and that did affect CRT monitors, which use
magnetic deflection. "Shielded speakers" may use some sort of metal that
keeps the magnetism in, but usually they include an extra magent that
counters the magnetism in the speaker magnet. Which can be sort of an
illusion, because you may pick up some cheap "computer speaker" and
note that there's a heft to it, only to discover that's because there's an
extra magnet in there rather than a decent speaker in the first place.

Speakers are not shielded to protect them from outside radiation. Like I
said, a speaker is low impedance, it would have to have a very strong
signal to be a problem, and realistically, it's going to affect the
amplifier before the speaker directly. Note, computer speakers have very
short runs between the amplifier and the actual speaker since the
amplifier is in the speaker box, but that's a completely separate issue.


If you're worried about where the speakers have been, which is a fair
point, then buy new speakers. You'll still end up with a better system
for the money than buying all but the most expensive "computer speakers".
Or hey, if you buy that set of speakers for ten bucks, and they don't
sound good, you can buy another set at another garage sale for another ten
bucks, and still come out ahead.

You might be lucky and be in an electrically quiet area but you might
not. Whether unshield speakers sound clean depends on where you are and
what's nearby and the quality of your line power and the amp to filter
out line noise.

You don't have a clue.

Just about every person has a stereo system and does not have the problems
you are making this out to be.

But more important, there is no difference, other than magnetically
shielded speakers, between a home stereo and computer speakers. This is
the very point, clueless people think they need "computer speakers" so
they buy into it. They spend money on junk (tiny little speakers with a
"subwoofer" that can't handle real subwoofer frequencies, with a tiny
amplifier that is often claimed on the package to be much more powerful
than it can be) or they overpay on some premium computer speaker that does
fine, but they could just as easily bought a garage sale amplifier and
speakers. The only real advantage of "computer speakers" is their size,
and their built in amplifiers (if the amplifiers are actually any good).

There is no difference between a stereo receiver with stereo speakers and
"computer speakers" other than the latter are small and have the amplifier
built in, and the speakers are shielded so their magnets won't cause a
problem with CRT monitors. The rest is marketing.

Yes, you can get really good computer speakers, but they would be good
speakers anyway, it's not because they are labelled as such. And you'll
spend money on it. But there is nothing magical about them.

Michael

"John McGaw" wrote in message
...

On 2/26/2012 7:05 AM, John wrote:

For listening to the occasional MP3, sports video clips (like ESPN) and
such. The speakers on my LCD are pretty puny and not really loud enough to
hear much. I don't have a sound card so standard mother board connections
are all I have available. The mother board has VT1708 high-def with a
6-channel audio out I/O port.

If anyone has had good results with something in the $40 or less range I
would appreciate the info. A woofer would be nice but that may run more
than $40, still if a bit more $$ is a good investment I'm open to
suggestions.

Thanks,
John

I have several sets of speakers but for the price the Altec VS2621 is
difficult to beat and it is the type I use on a daily basis even though I
have other big high-end speakers. This is a small 2.1 (pair plus amplified
woofer) that takes up little space and the list is $50 but the street price
is about $40 ($39 at Amazon for example) so it fits your cost criterion.
Reviews for it are available online and seem to be universally positive.

HI Paul I agree with you an the altec Lansings of some years ago, In 1995 I
bought a set af ACS 31 Altecs with subwoofer and I have found the to be the
best units I have ever used, Good clean sound without equalization The Sub
is rated 18 watts and the satellites are 7 watts each.
They sound better than any of the new models that I have heard, They are the
only part of my systems which I have never upgraded and never will unless
they fail completely beyond repair.

Regards Rene

On Feb 26, 10:54 pm, Michael Black wrote:

I should point out that since the computer itself is so noisy, chances
are more that somewhere in the soundcard it will pick up noise, rather
than the cable to the amplifier (or in your case, the "computer speaker").
There's nothing magical about "computer speakers" to eliminate that
problem of noise pickup, if it is such a noisy environment.

Negatory.

Although the soundcard is A-D for presumably analog inputs (likewise D-
A), if then bypassing altogether such stages for straight S/PDIF on a
high bandwidth, DD laser optical signal carrier over 10Hz to 48KHz,
there's really no place for signal degradation on a straight digital
signal path.

Actually, I've both, optionally an analogue signal interpolation
provided by the soundboard for simultaneous S/PDIF output to a mixer
unit variously distributed between two amps and another discrete
signal processor (Behringer stuff, the mixer and signal processing.
Amps are both studio grade and prosumer.)

Speakers are effectively being bi-amped over 200 watts, although to
maximize the better of two sets, I'll possibly need to step over to
pro-stage territory with QVC or Crown units for 250watts RMS, say at
300 to 400watts.

The signal processor unit is actually more than just a S/PDIF
distribution carrier, as with the computer when running layered
programming modules attached to a digital media player for further
processing sound (somewhat technical in dealing with peak limitations,
compression, or stereo stage enhancement). However, both the
Behringer as a discrete processor and the program are very similar in
many regards. The program will actually hog down a single core P4 at
3.2GHz, dedicated to it, when set for its highest orchestral grade
settings.

It's simply, for the most, a clean P4 built computer. Nothing magical
about rudimentary assembly. That the soundcard I chose is magical,
was as much an afterthought as seeing both practical application and
their limitations. Of course digital source quality must be high
indeed to approach that level.

There's really no reason to assume even an budget Pentium4 computer,
built with due care, is anything less than capable of reproducing high
audio standards. Then again, a cost of my speakers or a 400watt stage
amp will run at multiples over what the computer cost to build. Used
parts, again roughly $50, as was soundcard, perhaps more, although I
managed to secure it severely discounted at $19.

Anyone care to recommend where a perfectly functioning JBL, Crown, or
QVC 400watt amp can be procured for under $200? Age of course is
commiserate to condition and price fluctuation.

Michael Black wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012, VanguardLH wrote:

Michael Black wrote:

Go to a garage sale, buy a stereo amplifier or receiver for ten bucks.
Then buy small speakers, or big ones, either at a garage sale or new.
You'll get more for the money than buying something labelled as "computer
speakers".

But you won't have the shielding needed to prevent EMF induction to the
speakers (you'll hear noise in the amp/speakers when next to the
computer) and/or you'll induce EMF effects into your nearby computer
gear (CRTs will waver, don't know about LCDs but suspect not, hear
feedback from CD drive playback). "Computer" speakers are shielded
speakers. Entertainment speakers aren't shielded. Also, the cabling to
computer speakers is shielded versus plain speakers where you're
basically using lamp cord (2 unshielded wires) which means more likely
to pickup noise. The power supply in [good] computer speakers will
filter out line noise from the A/C power source versus amps that
typically end up picking up hum or ground loop noise.

Fine, then buy good speakers that are shielded. The later variants of the
Minimus 7 from Radio Shack were shielded.

Yeah, I did like those when I had them (for use with my entertainment
center, not with my computer). Don't remember if it was the flex
membrane that deteriorated too quickly with age to reduce the lows or
one got blown out, but I replaced the first set, got a 2nd, but those
got replaced with much better speakers. I forget when Radio Shack
stopped selling those. I think the brand changed to RCA/Optimus but
they haven't carried them for a long time (maybe 10-20 years ago?).
They were a bit weak in the high range and had a resonance in the
mid-bass yet I still liked them although eventually I got much higher
fidelity speakers. They didn't exaggerate the bass (muddy it up like
many cheap speakers); however, they're small speakers you added a
subwoofer. They're okay for bedroom, office, or other small volumetric
setups but better fidelity speakers are needed for an entertainment
system. As I recall, you could get them for $20-$30 because they always
went on sale. Placement was critical for these speakers. They had to
be placed near a reflecting boundary to direct below 1000 Hz into the
listening area. They changed from acoustic suspension (that I liked
better) to a reflex design: when I replaced the first pair (that had
gentler frequency rolloff), I was disappointed with the 2nd set where
its bass port added more oomph to the 120-350 Hz range but at a loss
under 80 Hz plus the reflex port introduced a substantial phase shift
(after all, it's the backward push of the speaker that pushes the air
through the port). A buddy actually plugged the port because he like it
better that way. I even remember having the larger Minimus 77's (5" LF
speaker vs 4") but, as I recall, I was disappointed as they weren't any
better than the smaller Minimus 7's.

Wow, we're dating ourselves.

However, those used a cast aluminum case. They were not magnetically
shielded. Some even had a wood case. I don't think there was any
magnetic shielding until the brand changed to Optimus and only for the
"AV" shielded versions.

But you can also simply place the speakers further apart, like you would
with a real stereo system.

You're also sitting farther away from your entertainment center for
those separated speakers. Since these are to be used with a computer
and considering where most users place their monitors and speakers, the
overly wide spread of the speakers would result in loss of stereo effect
and especially loss in direction. In a 4-speaker setup, and put far
enough apart, you couldn't tell whether those footsteps in the game were
coming from in front or behind you. In a 2-speaker system and if the
speakers are too far apart, you might as well as go with monaural.

Plus I don't see how placing them farther apart helps with induced noise
into the speakers unless they are shielded. Your first reply wasn't
pointing the OP at getting shielded speakers and what I addressed.

I should point out that one reason cheap
computer speakers work is because they are being used close to the ears,
which means they don't have to handle much power, and the close coupling
to the ears allows the cheap speakers to "sound fine".

Same reason why headphones don't need much power but that doesn't
preclude them from fine audio reproduction. In fact, in a 2-speaker
only setup or cost restrictions, sometimes headphones are the better
option in a particular environ rather than put up with chintzy speakers.

I wasn't saying your scheme wasn't plausible but it could have some
gotchas that may incur extra expense. I know plenty of users that pipe
their audio outputs from their computers to their stereo system but
sometimes they have to correct some noise problems.

"John" wrote in message
.. .

such. The speakers on my LCD are pretty puny and not really loud enough
. . .

If anyone has had good results with something in the $40 or less range I
would appreciate the info. A woofer would be nice but that may run more
than $40, still if a bit more $$ is a good investment I'm open to
suggestions.

On 2/26/2012 8:10 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

You want a powered speaker set. That means you'll need an A/C outlet
nearby to plug in the speakers
Speakers, like monitors, is something that I go to the retail store to
figure out if I like them. Just going by specs won't tell you if they
sound good to your ears or look good to your eyes. . . .
I've had Logitech speakers but wasn't impressed (wouldn't bother with
them again). Creative and Altec have been pretty good but then I am
usually looking at the $200+ range and not the low end. A lot depends
on what type of sound you like to hear.

Creative Gigaworks T20 speakers may be the best under $200. Mine
cost $90 in 2007 and are still unmatched.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Don Phillipson wrote:

Creative Gigaworks T20 speakers may be the best under $200.
Mine cost $90 in 2007 and are still unmatched.

The last Creative speakers I bought had crap potentiometers.
They were 2.0, cost $50 about five years ago, and there sealed.
I forget the model number. I haven't since had that that warm,
fuzzy feeling about Creative Labs speakers...

On 2/27/2012 9:56 AM PT, Fishface typed:

The last Creative speakers I bought had crap potentiometers.
They were 2.0, cost $50 about five years ago, and there sealed.
I forget the model number. I haven't since had that that warm,
fuzzy feeling about Creative Labs speakers...

Were those Cambridge SoundWorks?
--
"I don't know how good ants are at swimmin', but I'd be willing to bet
that a good fire'd get their attention." --MacGyver in Trumbo's World
episode
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

Ant wrote:
Were those Cambridge SoundWorks?

Nope, Creative I-Trigue 2200.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00067KRTG

Problem noted in reviews. I bought them for the inlaws.