If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
In article , Sheldon Simms writes:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:43:30 +0000, Roger Marquis wrote: As reported in The Register (.uk) http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33543.html: The Nihon Keizai Shimbun is reporting that Sun and Fujitsu plan to standardize their Unix server architectures and have a Fujitsu subsidiary manufacture the gear. Both companies currently make Sparc/Solaris servers, which would make combining their operations a complementary move. The good news is that finally, after years of declining competitive advantage, Sun is finally multi-sourcing the production of SPARC processors. This can only be good news for consumers as it paves the way for faster, cheaper SPARC CPUs (still the fastest and most popular open CPU architecture available). What exactly does "open" mean in this case? What it always means. Anything you want it to or not to mean. Rob |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
"Logan Shaw" wrote in message
... Sheldon Simms wrote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 02:55:00 +0000, Rich Teer wrote: It means the opposite of proprietory. Intel's x86, contrary to unimformed popular belief, is not an open archtecture. I see. So although I can buy an x86 CPU from Intel, or AMD, or Transmeta, or VIA, with SPARC I am somehow less bound to one particular corporation (in some legal, if not practical, sense)? Let's say I want to take my 32-bit application and turn it into a 64-bit application. Let's say I have x86 right now and want to move to the new 64-bit version of x86. (I need to buy some machines to run this 64-bit app, of course.) What do I do? Since x86 is not an open architecture whose future is guided by a standards body, each company has its own set of proprietary, competing extensions that do 64-bit. I can't just choose to go forward with "the standard". There is none, so I have to make a choice between standards. This sucks because it's not just a choice -- it's a gamble. If I need 64-bit now, I have to buy machines that might turn out not to be compatible with whatever winds up being the dominant 64-bit successor to x86. They may be pretty worthless in a year or two, and if so, I not only have to get new machines, but I also have to re-tool to build apps for that architecture instead. Meanwhile, in the SPARC world, the 64-bit SPARC processors from various manufacturers are all compatible with each other, and I can (now that there are stable 64-bit compilers) build a 64-bit app that runs on all 64-bit SPARC chips. The x86 world will eventually reach the point where it settles on a 64-bit instruction set that works and is standard. But it will be a de facto standard, and it will only reach that point when the massively-strong market forces in the x86 world force it to happen, providing the resources for one company to reverse engineer another's architecture, for legal battles to happen, and all that nonsense that would be unnecessary with an open standard. In the SPARC world, the 64-bit problem is already decided and has already been decided for over 5 years. Certainly this is partly due to the fact that there is more demand for 64-bit machines in the SPARC world than in the x86 world, but I don't have any doubt that the fact that it's standards-based has made it an easier and faster process. - Logan I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another Sparc CPU other than from Sun? |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Godzilla wrote:
I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another Sparc CPU other than from Sun? If you had bothered to read my previous post, you'd have found this: http://www.sparc.com/members.html It lists four microprocessor vendors in addition to Sun, and nearly 20 OEMs. -- Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA President, Rite Online Inc. Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URL: http://www.rite-online.net |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
"Roger Marquis" wrote in message
... As reported in The Register (.uk) http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33543.html: The Nihon Keizai Shimbun is reporting that Sun and Fujitsu plan to standardize their Unix server architectures and have a Fujitsu subsidiary manufacture the gear. Both companies currently make Sparc/Solaris servers, which would make combining their operations a complementary move. The good news is that finally, after years of declining competitive advantage, Sun is finally multi-sourcing the production of SPARC processors. This can only be good news for consumers as it paves the way for faster, cheaper SPARC CPUs (still the fastest and most popular open CPU architecture available). Not surprising really, the Sparc architecture is rapidly being pushed upmarket to survive, and not of its own strategy. The lower tiers of the server market are being taken over by the x86 architectures (Xeon and Opteron), so there is not as much call for separate Sparc architectures to both exist simultaneously. Yousuf Khan |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Sheldon Simms wrote:
I see. So although I can buy an x86 CPU from Intel, or AMD, or Transmeta, or VIA, with SPARC I am somehow less bound to one particular corporation (in some legal, if not practical, sense)? Yes. And more to the point, if you want to design your own chip that is SPARC compatible, you are allowed to do so. No one will try to sue you. I somehow doubt Intel will let you off so lightly if you try to design your own x86 compatible. Unfortunately, too many people these days (not necessarily you, I hasten to add!) equate ubiquity and being a commodity with "not proprietory"; it ain't so. SPARC is nowhere near as ubiquitous as x86, but it IS open. The latter is not. -- Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA President, Rite Online Inc. Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URL: http://www.rite-online.net |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
"Godzilla" wrote in message
le.rogers.com... I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another Sparc CPU other than from Sun? Fujitsu, for example. Fuji makes their Sparc64 processors, which compete against Sun's UltraSparc processors. Both are based on the same standard instruction set. But as the original posting said, it looks like Fuji and Sun are pooling their resources together now to combine their processors. Yousuf Khan |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
"Rich Teer" wrote in message news:Pine.SOL.4.58.0310222118050.467@zaphod... On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Godzilla wrote: I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another Sparc CPU other than from Sun? If you had bothered to read my previous post, you'd have found this: http://www.sparc.com/members.html It lists four microprocessor vendors in addition to Sun, and nearly 20 OEMs. I just looked at the above site: As for OPEN, the architecture is free, and anyone can build processors based on it. The SPARC trademark requires membership in SPARC, and compliance testing. Membership is $20,000 for manufacturers of hardware, $1500 for companies promoting the architecture, and $100 for universities not supplying products or services. I would guess that it costs more than $20,000 to license any required patents from Intel for x86. -- glen |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Sheldon Simms wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:43:30 +0000, Roger Marquis wrote: This can only be good news for consumers as it paves the way for faster, cheaper SPARC CPUs (still the fastest and most popular open CPU architecture available). What exactly does "open" mean in this case? And what does 'fastest' mean? I guess we might have to ask for a definition of 'available' as well? :-) Terje -- - "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
"Roger Marquis" wrote in message ... As reported in The Register (.uk) http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33543.html: The Nihon Keizai Shimbun is reporting that Sun and Fujitsu plan to standardize their Unix server architectures and have a Fujitsu subsidiary manufacture the gear. Both companies currently make Sparc/Solaris servers, which would make combining their operations a complementary move. The good news is that finally, after years of declining competitive advantage, Sun is finally multi-sourcing the production of SPARC processors. This can only be good news for consumers as it paves the way for faster, cheaper SPARC CPUs (still the fastest and most popular open CPU architecture available). I am confused. Sun has not owned exclusive rights to SPARC processors for at least 10 years - since then they've been on the same footing as everyone else. The first several versions of SPARC processors used by Sun were not manufactured by them. SPARC processors have been designed and manufactured by many companies over the years, and still are. I've had my hands around many types of SPARC processor over the years, none of them manufactured by Sun. How does two of the major manufacturers of SPARC processors and systems combining their operations result in good news for the consumer? |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:09:28 GMT, wrote:
.. I have only 1 question in regard to your post. Where can I buy another Sparc CPU other than from Sun? from fujitsu. -- http://www.blastwave.org/ for solaris pre-packaged binaries with pkg-get Organized by the author of pkg-get [Trim the no-bots from my address to reply to me by email!] S.1618 http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...5:SN01618:@@@D http://www.spamlaws.com/state/ca1.html |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
(",) GOOD NEWS! - HAVE YOU HEARD? .......... | [email protected] | Asus Motherboards | 0 | January 31st 05 03:52 AM |
· · · Have You Heard The Good News? · · · | [email protected] | Asus Motherboards | 0 | January 30th 05 05:14 AM |
· · · Have You Heard The Good News? · · · | [email protected] | Asus Motherboards | 0 | January 30th 05 12:56 AM |
Minolta 5400: bad news, good news | Dan Marder | Scanners | 1 | October 16th 03 06:20 PM |