A computer components & hardware forum. HardwareBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HardwareBanter forum » System Manufacturers & Vendors » UK Computer Vendors
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Are mains surge protectors needed in the UK?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old July 13th 04, 02:50 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

half_pint wrote:

"David Maynard" wrote in message
...

Lem wrote:


"half_pint" wrote:



And if you are saying that semi conductor devices are
inherently sensitive to current then obviously we would
make fuses out of them. However semiconductors are make out
of silicone which has an extremly high melting point. (we
are basically talking about sand) indeed silicone has
replaced asbestos as a safer heat resistant material.


Are you perhaps confusing silicon with silicone?`

Welll prehaps you are, silicone is based upon silicon
just as many semiconductors are based upon silicon.
Silicone like semiconductors in ICs does not occur naturally
however both are based upon silicon (or similar) and have
very high melting points.



Silicone is not based on silicon.

There is almost no chemical or physical connection between the two.



http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Silicone

"Silicones, or "polysiloxanes", are inorganic polymers consisting of a

silicon-oxygen backbone (...-Si-O-Si-O-Si-O-...)

with side groups attached to the silicon atoms. Certain organic side


groups

can be used to link two or more of these -Si-O- backbones together. By
varying the -Si-O- chain lengths, side groups, and crosslinking, silicones
can be synthesized into a wide variety of materials. They can vary in
consistency from liquid to gel to rubber."


It can't be silicone without the silicon.

It's paradoxical, however, to say 'silicone' has a 'high melting point'
since silicones, depending on the formulation, can be anything from a
liquid, to a gell, to a solid at room temperature.



Well my Bettaware magazine is selling silicone mats for resting
hot pans on.


I would imagine it's made from one of the 'solid' formulations I mentioned.

Which, of course, says nothing about the liquid or gel formulations. Nor,
for that matter, does it necessarily say anything about the other, many
varied, solid formulations.



  #122  
Old July 13th 04, 02:58 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

half_pint wrote:

"David Maynard" wrote in message
...

Mike Tomlinson wrote:


In article , David Maynard
writes

[snip pointless attempt to reason with half_pint]

David, you're wasting your time arguing with half_wit.


I'm beginning to see your point.

Rather amazing, actually. I mean, even when one points to authoritative
sources he simply declares everyone else ignorant or just plain dumb.



Thats utter wank and you are a ******.


I posted to you links on ESD damage and you proclaimed the people ignorant.
Case closed.


Makes me wonder how people like that arrive at their 'beliefs'.


He's a regular
poster on uk.legal, where the quality of his "advice" is on a par with
his knowledge of electronics. I have him killfiled everywhere he pops
up.





  #123  
Old July 13th 04, 09:54 AM
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If a surge was not due to lightning, then it would have
been one of those other often rare type of events - that the
'whole house' protector also would have protected from. One
protector - properly sized - to protect all machines from the
incoming surge. Or lots of undersized protectors, at greater
costs, that only claim to protect from one all but nonexistent
type of surge.

Jonathan Buzzard guy is still trying to explain how
impedance in wire and the inductance in a light bulb can
create massive surges when power switched.

Mains borne surges are why we use 'whole house' protectors
that are properly sized and that typically cost tens of time
less money per protected appliance.

Jonathan Buzzard wrote:
Cannot be, because according to w_tom such surges don't exist

  #124  
Old July 13th 04, 12:05 PM
w_tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Of course not. I have no affiliation with any of those
companies. Why would I mention the competition so often? But
this is
basic and essential information when doing anything that
requires reliable operation such as aerospace work and
semiconductor factories. Ever see all computers damaged just
before a space launch because the facilities were not properly
earthed?

Over the years, I have had some mysterious failures and
spectacular successes. Most early lessons were on friends
homes. Have seen MOVs completely vaporized so that only two
lead exist - an eerie scene. Have seen everything - literally
every electronic device - damaged except on one circuit
protected by (what I now know to be) an undersized but
properly located MOV. That MOV, earthed by less than three
foot connection, shunted a surge so large as to partially
damage the electric meter. All other circuits exposed to that
strike suffered complete damage. This one protected circuit
with such a short earth ground connection suffered not one
failure - except where the surge passed through electric meter
to get to earth ground.

That one experience got me heavily into questioning surge
protectors. Discovered myths all but promoted by plug-in
protector manufacturers AND the highly rated products from
real world protector companies such as Polyphaser.

Tim Auton wrote:
w_tom, do you work for a company involved in the manufacture,
distribution, sales or installation of whole-house surge
protectors?

  #125  
Old July 13th 04, 01:50 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In uk.comp.vendors w_tom wrote:
damage the electric meter. All other circuits exposed to that
strike suffered complete damage. This one protected circuit


'complete damage', as opposed to 'incomplete damage' no doubt.

--
Chris Green
  #126  
Old July 13th 04, 01:51 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In uk.comp.vendors w_tom wrote:
If a surge was not due to lightning, then it would have
been one of those other often rare type of events - that the


How the #@$£"&^ can something be "often rara"!?

--
Chris Green
  #128  
Old July 13th 04, 07:31 PM
Jonathan Buzzard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:55:21 +0100, half_pint wrote:


See above, if you handle computer components without observing ESD
precautions you probably have, just you don't realize it.

Well may conputer works just fine, I have touched the circuit
boards many times whilst changing memory and drives etc...
I dont wear an anti static band rtc..
It appears to be working perfectly well.


You can ride a motorbike all your life without a crash helmet. Does not
make it a sensible proposition.

This is the realm of statistics, something that the general public seem to
have a great deal problem understanding. You seem to be one.

JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195

  #129  
Old July 13th 04, 11:47 PM
half_pint
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Jonathan Buzzard" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:55:21 +0100, half_pint wrote:


See above, if you handle computer components without observing ESD
precautions you probably have, just you don't realize it.

Well may conputer works just fine, I have touched the circuit
boards many times whilst changing memory and drives etc...
I dont wear an anti static band rtc..
It appears to be working perfectly well.


You can ride a motorbike all your life without a crash helmet. Does not
make it a sensible proposition.

This is the realm of statistics, something that the general public seem to
have a great deal problem understanding. You seem to be one.


Well maybe you are one of the fools who think wearing a crash helmet
will make jack **** of difference in 99% of mototcycle accidents.

Worse still the false sense of security will probably mean you are more
lilkely to end up dead or crippled.
And you can add to that the fact that you senses of vision and
hearing are severly diminished, makeing an accident even more
likely.

However don't let commonsense cloud you judgement, just
stick to some really simplistic idea which you think you can
understand. No point in taxing your brain too much.



JAB.

--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jonathan (at) buzzard.me.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44 1661-832195



  #130  
Old July 20th 04, 08:19 PM
Panos Papadopolous
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Cuzman" wrote in message
...
"Lem" wrote in message
...

" Am I being too complacent? "


Think of this when you next take a ****.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/s...re/3457965.stm


Hey Cuzman, the article was very interesting but I saw nothing relating it
to lightning, but rather to a fault in HV cables beneath the public unit.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are mains surge protectors needed in the UK? Bagpuss General 259 July 20th 04 08:19 PM
Are mains surge protectors needed in the UK? John McGaw Homebuilt PC's 177 July 20th 04 08:19 PM
Are mains surge protectors needed in the UK? John McGaw UK Computer Vendors 48 July 20th 04 08:13 PM
Are mains surge protectors needed in the UK? Bagpuss Homebuilt PC's 76 July 20th 04 08:04 PM
Are mains surge protectors needed in the UK? Bagpuss UK Computer Vendors 64 July 20th 04 08:04 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 HardwareBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.