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#1
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best adapter to encode TV shows to hard drive?
i'm disappointed with the result i get
when i try to capture a TV show directly to a file on my hard drive i have a decent MSI FX5900XT VTD128 VIVO video adapter (i've never liked the idea of packing a large/hot TV tuner on an already crowded/hot video board) i used a composite cable (from a decent external TV tuner) for the input video signal would a separate tuner board give better results? if yes, could anyone please name some decent mid-range and high-end alternatives? thank you in advance, bill |
#2
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"willbill" wrote ...
i'm disappointed with the result i get when i try to capture a TV show directly to a file on my hard drive i have a decent MSI FX5900XT VTD128 VIVO video adapter (i've never liked the idea of packing a large/hot TV tuner on an already crowded/hot video board) OTOH, combining a decent video card with decent video capture is pretty rare. The review of this video board I found (at http://www.hothardware.com/viewartic...id=421&catid=2) appears to indicate that it is optimized for video gaming. There are 6 pages of descriptions, graphs & charts, screen shots of how the board works with various games. The video capture functionality was mentioned in a single paragraph. i used a composite cable (from a decent external TV tuner) for the input video signal What video capture software? What file format? Which codec? Is it just off-the-air recordings that you are unhappy with, or is it ANY kind/source of video? would a separate tuner board give better results? They ARE designed and bundled with software optimized to do OTA (off-the-air) recording (rather than video games, etc.) They are also not all that expensive. |
#3
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Richard Crowley wrote:
"willbill" wrote ... i'm disappointed with the result i get when i try to capture a TV show directly to a file on my hard drive i have a decent MSI FX5900XT VTD128 VIVO video adapter (i've never liked the idea of packing a large/hot TV tuner on an already crowded/hot video board) OTOH, combining a decent video card with decent video capture is pretty rare. The review of this video board I found (at http://www.hothardware.com/viewartic...id=421&catid=2) interesting 7 part review. appears to indicate that it is optimized for video gaming. if you mean *3D* gaming (vs. 2D), then i agree btw, your comment is interesting in that it implies/suggests that you think some video boards are "optimized" for video encoding? if yes, what do *you* consider as key criterions for a video board that is optimized for decent video encoding? fwiw, to me video encoding means a) good *2D* performance in general, b) good true color (32 bit) performance, and c) good performance with displaying video files (avi, mpeg2, and the many others that now exist). is there more to it than that? btw, it's an honest comment/question; meaning i'm not baiting you There are 6 pages of descriptions, graphs & charts, screen shots of how the board works with various games. The video capture functionality was mentioned in a single paragraph. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ correct, found on the 2nd page under the sub-head of "DVD Authoring" i used a composite cable (from a decent external TV tuner) for the input video signal What video capture software? Nero Vision Express 3.1.0.0, downloaded about 10 weeks ago to update/upgrade my Nero 6 s/w fwiw, the MSI provided nVidia drivers and capture drivers (aka "WDM" drivers (what does WDM stand for?) are very recent also, the Nero Vision Express (ver. 2, upgraded to ver. 3) is the only actual capture s/w ever loaded on the PC (running Win XP Pro sp2) What file format? Which codec? tried at least 4 different ones of each. with results ranging from godawful bad to poor reached the point where it occurred to me that maybe it would be more productive to ask if: a) separate TV tuner boards give better results than video boards with a built in VIVO chip? and b) for some specific suggestions and comparisons Is it just off-the-air recordings that you are unhappy with, correct. TV antenna video signal (from a decent roof top TV antenna), 6U 75 ohm coax cable (75 foot), into an external TV tuner (a combo VHS recorder/DVD player), pulling the "tuned" video signal into the PC (using a 6' composite TV signal cable) or is it ANY kind/source of video? would a separate tuner board give better results? They ARE designed and bundled with software optimized to do OTA (off-the-air) recording (rather than video games, etc.) They are also not all that expensive. do they generally give a visually better result than a VIVO board? bill |
#4
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"willbill" wrote ...
btw, your comment is interesting in that it implies/suggests that you think some video boards are "optimized" for video encoding? I think there are video capture products that are optimized for video encoding. Even tuner cards are optimized for video encoding. OTOH, I don't know of ANY graphics cards that are optimized for video encoding. "Vivo" appears to be mostly a marketing gimmic they can tack on in order to charge a bit more for the extra feature. Sounds like you are looking for better performance than the "vivo" products were designed for. For general video work I literally use the cheapest and most basic video card I can find. I never spend more than ~$50 for a video card because capture/editing/DVD authoring makes no significant demands on the graphics card. Certainly nothing remotely resembling the demands of gaming, etc. I prefer very basic graphics cards not only because they are cheap, but also to AVOID all that gaming 2D, 3D, textures, etc. etc. stuff. It is just extra overhead that has nothing but negative implications for what I want to do with my computer. Of course, video capture is done with a product designed for video capture. In many cases, this is a generic firewire port importing DV video from a camcorder or VCR or DV encoder box like ADVC-110, etc. if yes, what do *you* consider as key criterions for a video board that is optimized for decent video encoding? Frankly, I don't remember ever heard anything positive from anyone doing video capture with their graphics card. Dunno if this is because they are lousy by design, or whether they come with lousy software, or what? Did you try any of the software that came with the card? If you want quality video capture, you likely need a product whose primary design was for video capture. fwiw, to me video encoding means a) good *2D* performance in general, b) good true color (32 bit) performance, and c) good performance with displaying video files (avi, mpeg2, and the many others that now exist). is there more to it than that? Thost are all important when *generating* video (whether generating it from scratch in a video game, or whether reconstructing video from a compressed file like MPEG, etc.) But none of those things has anything to do with capturing or encoding video. Designing a card to optimize these things means that much less resources going into video capture/encoding. btw, it's an honest comment/question; meaning i'm not baiting you My personal bias is that quality video capture/encoding is not done with a graphics card with "vivo". Dunno why, but nobody has ever come to this neighborhood (rec.video.desktop) bragging about what a great video capture they are getting from their graphics card. They all come with complaints nearly word-for-word identical to yours. You can discard my opinion and biases and draw your own conclusion from this. What file format? Which codec? tried at least 4 different ones of each. with results ranging from godawful bad to poor Without knowing SPECIFICALLY what these were, we have absolutely no way of evaluating your experience or relating it to what we have found successfull. This is an important question. Without these details, we can only offer the most generic (and marginally useful) advice. reached the point where it occurred to me that maybe it would be more productive to ask if: a) separate TV tuner boards give better results than video boards with a built in VIVO chip? From what we have heard here (rec.video.desktop), MOST products designed primarly for video capture/ encoding give better results than ANY graphics cards with a built-in vivo chip. and b) for some specific suggestions and comparisons You may have to ask (in the subject line) for people with experience with specific products. Is it just off-the-air recordings that you are unhappy with, correct. TV antenna video signal (from a decent roof top TV antenna), 6U 75 ohm coax cable (75 foot), into an external TV tuner (a combo VHS recorder/DVD player), pulling the "tuned" video signal into the PC (using a 6' composite TV signal cable) or is it ANY kind/source of video? [no response] This was a differential question and you responded only to the first part. Without an answer to the second part, we can'd do a differential diagnosis as to exactly what is causing the poor performance you are complaining about. This is an important question. If you blow it off, we can't really help you much more. What does the picture look like right out of the tuner and into your TV screen? Troubleshooting 101: Look *critically* at EACH step in the chain to see where the signal goes bad. Troubleshooting 102: Connect a different source into your vivo video card and see if there is any change in performance. do they generally give a visually better result than a VIVO board? I don't have first-hand experience with either, but I'd bet money that a tuner card would do OTA recording better than a video card with a "Vivo" chip. One reason for my blind faith is that most have hardware MPEG encoding chips which people seem to find acceptable for general timeshifting and/or archiving TV shows. There are many additional benefits like: online listings, automated channel switching/recording (like a VCR or Tivo, etc.) |
#5
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I'm happy with my MSI TV @nywhere ... the stock "best setting" with the
included InterVideo MSIPVS is as below ... it will do up to 720x480 ... but that's not TV :-). I record from my Rogers box using the s-video output. Did a show to DVD that a buddy can't get in his part of the country ... he was pretty impressed. [Real-time Best] Format: MPEG-2 Audio: Format: MPEG-1 Layer II Sampling Rate: 44.1 kHz 16-bit Stereo Bit Rate: 224 KBits/sec Video: Size: 640x480 Frame Rate: 29.97 frames/sec Bit Rate: 6400 KBits/sec " i used a composite cable (from a decent external TV tuner) for the input video signal would a separate tuner board give better results? if yes, could anyone please name some decent mid-range and high-end alternatives? thank you in advance, bill |
#6
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willbill wrote:
i'm disappointed with the result i get when i try to capture a TV show directly to a file on my hard drive i have a decent MSI FX5900XT VTD128 VIVO video adapter (i've never liked the idea of packing a large/hot TV tuner on an already crowded/hot video board) i used a composite cable (from a decent external TV tuner) for the input video signal would a separate tuner board give better results? if yes, could anyone please name some decent mid-range and high-end alternatives? thank you in advance, bill If you have a Firewire port then the Canopus ADVC line would be good--they have everything from high end consumer to broadcast quality. If you're in an area where Tivo is available, a hacked Tivo, DirecTivo, or HDTivo would be another option. -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#7
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"Bowgus" wrote in message ... I'm happy with my MSI TV @nywhere ... the stock "best setting" with the included InterVideo MSIPVS is as below ... it will do up to 720x480 ... but that's not TV :-). I record from my Rogers box using the s-video output. Did a show to DVD that a buddy can't get in his part of the country ... he was pretty impressed. [Real-time Best] Format: MPEG-2 Audio: Format: MPEG-1 Layer II Sampling Rate: 44.1 kHz 16-bit Stereo Bit Rate: 224 KBits/sec Video: Size: 640x480 Frame Rate: 29.97 frames/sec Bit Rate: 6400 KBits/sec That would be just slightly better than the more common Half D1 (352x480) at ~4000Kbps VBR(CQ), that I use most of the time. As to the OP, the hardware capture board has three basic components and often additional features that increase the price and sometimes add value. The first and most important part is the "Decoder"/ Analog/Digital (A/D) Chip which turns your analog TV signal (normally Composite or S-Video) into digital data. Some do both audio and video, some only video. (A TV tuner card would [in theory] be providing the better RGB signal to the A/D Chip. ) Personally I prefer cards/boxes/and standalone DVD recorders that use the Phillips SAA 7xxxH series A/D chips. There are some capture cards that just use the output of a specialized A/D chip to support a limited firmware or more extensive software compression of the video. They use codec and your CPU to provide most formats. Basically, the less compression applied the less demand on your system's resources/capabilities. (This is where your ViVo card fits in the spectrum.) Many have used this process to capture in low level compression formats to AVI, such as AVI-DV and the HuffYUV "Lossless" format. This approach was the standard way to provide early Editing software with a converted analog signal in a format that was "Editable". There are still Guides at www.videohelp.com and others explaining how to capture successfully using this approach. There are then the next step up in capture cards, those that take the output of the A/D Chip and provide data to the other two basic components, a Hardware Encoder chip and some very fast dedicated memory. There are now hardware encoders that do MPEG4 & DivX, as well as MPEG 1/2. (This is also the approach used in Standalone DVD Recorders and "TiVo" like devices. ( In fact the Encoder in my card is the one TiVo uses for their "Series 2" design, the Broadcom BCM7040 (Kfir-II) Chip.)) Early cards that used this approach were specialized equipment costing many thousands of dollars, they now range from $150 to $30,000 or so. Philips, Broadcom, Conexant, and others have web sites that provide detailed descriptions of their Chips. Most of the hardware encoders are proprietary chips and little information or third party support is available for them. This can make it hard to find the most effective capture software to use with such cards. This is an issue because the lower cost cards generally suffer from inadequate, if not buggy supplied software. ( In my case I capture using software obtained from another card manufacturer, that produced a card based on the same reference design as mine.) In the range of cards that use the two approaches I mentioned, there are those with various additional features that are meant to aid or improve the capture. There are some with built-in TBC and DNR circuitry. Color correction is a common addition. Analog capture external USB2 and Firewire devices are available that use either approach. Luck; Ken P.S. It appears that "Snazzi*"/"V-One Multimedia" is entering the US market thru an online store. They have cards and boxes that can use the "Movie Mill" capture software I use. |
#8
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willbill wrote:
i'm disappointed with the result i get when i try to capture a TV show directly to a file on my hard drive i have a decent MSI FX5900XT VTD128 VIVO video adapter (i've never liked the idea of packing a large/hot TV tuner on an already crowded/hot video board) i used a composite cable (from a decent external TV tuner) for the input video signal would a separate tuner board give better results? if yes, could anyone please name some decent mid-range and high-end alternatives? thank you in advance, bill I use the A/D function in my Sony Mini-DV camera to do this, and the results are superb. I regularly connect my DirecTV sat receiver to my camera (camera to pc via firewire), and record programs in that manner. I also have a VIVO capable video card and the Mini-DV camera provides much higher quality. (* |
#9
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1. Plextor ConvertX - see review in where? cdrinfo.com
Excellent all-in-one device and lets you convert to mpeg-1/2/4 formats. (mpeg-4 = divx) 2. Any ol' video card with tv tuner such as WinTV boards or ATI All-in-wonder boards - any of these will be found cheap for $40 for the older models, and work fine. 3. Canopus ADVC-100 + external TV tuner device such as VCR, cable input, etc. 4. Any ol' HDTV PCI adapter for $150-250+. These will get even better resolution than the TV innput methods above due to the HDTV format. --- Then the usual of using either included software or virtualdub to capture. |
#10
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Hawk wrote:
willbill wrote: i'm disappointed with the result i get when i try to capture a TV show directly to a file on my hard drive i have a decent MSI FX5900XT VTD128 VIVO video adapter (i've never liked the idea of packing a large/hot TV tuner on an already crowded/hot video board) i used a composite cable (from a decent external TV tuner) for the input video signal would a separate tuner board give better results? I use the A/D function in my Sony Mini-DV camera to do this, and the results are superb. I regularly connect my DirecTV sat receiver to my camera (camera to pc via firewire), and record programs in that manner. I also have a VIVO capable video card and the Mini-DV camera provides much higher quality. as far as i can tell, at this point, buying a VIVO video board (however else it may be good) has *no* merit for capturing a broadcast TV show to your PC's hard drive as a video file fwiw, my last inquiry (into newegg on "vcr" showed 19 results; my interest was external TV tuners; but having saved it then and looking at it last night, there are several PCI TV tuner boards that look interesting in the $36-to-$99 range i need to look thru the newegg user comments, and maybe do another search or two for pci/tv/tuner, but assuming they are positive, odds are i'll soon get one of them thank you, bill |
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