CPU heat sink staying cool - why isn't the CPU transferring its heat to heat sink?

Long story (background in thread "Newbie: 3 lots of CPU temp in
SpeedFan? 2 of them are overheating ..." from last week) but in short I
have an over heating problem, I've done some tests, and today I
realised that the CPU heat sink is not getting warm at all but by
contrast the much smaller motherboard heat sink does warm up.

So the question I have is, what possible scenarios could stop the CPU
heat transferring to the heat sink? I've pulled it off of the CPU to
check that there is the usual 'grey' solution there and there is. Any
help much appreciated on this one.

I originally thought there was a problem with the heat sink and fan but
to fair the fan is keeping cool a heat sink that is not even getting
warm in the first place, hence my problem with the computer just
switching off. So I need to figure out why the CPU can't transfer its
heat to the heat sink.

FYI I have an AMD Athlon 64 3200 CPU.

Thanks

On 8 Dec 2006 16:55:44 -0800, "Dundonald"
wrote:

Long story (background in thread "Newbie: 3 lots of CPU temp in
SpeedFan? 2 of them are overheating ..." from last week) but in short I
have an over heating problem, I've done some tests, and today I
realised that the CPU heat sink is not getting warm at all but by
contrast the much smaller motherboard heat sink does warm up.

So the question I have is, what possible scenarios could stop the CPU
heat transferring to the heat sink? I've pulled it off of the CPU to
check that there is the usual 'grey' solution there and there is. Any
help much appreciated on this one.

I originally thought there was a problem with the heat sink and fan but
to fair the fan is keeping cool a heat sink that is not even getting
warm in the first place, hence my problem with the computer just
switching off. So I need to figure out why the CPU can't transfer its
heat to the heat sink.

FYI I have an AMD Athlon 64 3200 CPU.

Thanks


When the system is idling, the CPU will run cool enough that
the heatsink will not feel hot. You would have to put the
system under good load, perhaps run Prime95's Torture Test
to heat it up and then feel it, or even better to check a
software, hardware monitor report or note the temps reported
in the bios health or hardware monitor page.

If when you took the 'sink off, it looked as though there
was reasonable contact between it and CPU from the
impression left by the thermal interface material, it should
have been good enough to warm the heatsink if the CPU were
overheating. In other words I doubt it was overheating at
all, but you have disconnected this post from the prior
thread so I don't have that information to refer to.

When the system switches off can you immediately turn it
back on with the power switch or is more necessary first,
for example needing to unplug it from AC power for a few
moments?

Dundonald wrote:
Long story (background in thread "Newbie: 3 lots of CPU temp in
SpeedFan? 2 of them are overheating ..." from last week) but in short I
have an over heating problem, I've done some tests, and today I
realised that the CPU heat sink is not getting warm at all but by
contrast the much smaller motherboard heat sink does warm up.

So the question I have is, what possible scenarios could stop the CPU
heat transferring to the heat sink? I've pulled it off of the CPU to
check that there is the usual 'grey' solution there and there is. Any
help much appreciated on this one.

I originally thought there was a problem with the heat sink and fan but
to fair the fan is keeping cool a heat sink that is not even getting
warm in the first place, hence my problem with the computer just
switching off. So I need to figure out why the CPU can't transfer its
heat to the heat sink.

FYI I have an AMD Athlon 64 3200 CPU.

Thanks


When a heatsink that is adequately connected to a heat source is cool,
the the heatsink system is working properly. Heat runs only from hot to
cool. What is this "motherboard heatsink"? You did not gang up a
secondary heat sink to the main heat sink, did you? If you could
accomplish something like this then it is no wonder your CPU is shutting
down.

Secondly, SpeedFan is not infallible.

Q

Dundonald wrote:
Long story (background in thread "Newbie: 3 lots of CPU temp in
SpeedFan? 2 of them are overheating ..." from last week) but in short I
have an over heating problem, I've done some tests, and today I
realised that the CPU heat sink is not getting warm at all but by
contrast the much smaller motherboard heat sink does warm up.

So the question I have is, what possible scenarios could stop the CPU
heat transferring to the heat sink?

Lack of paste. (apparently not your situation).
Heatsink on crooked/backward.
Broken mounts/mounts not seated.


Diagnostic software lying.

I've pulled it off of the CPU to
check that there is the usual 'grey' solution there and there is. Any
help much appreciated on this one.

I originally thought there was a problem with the heat sink and fan but
to fair the fan is keeping cool a heat sink that is not even getting
warm in the first place, hence my problem with the computer just
switching off. So I need to figure out why the CPU can't transfer its
heat to the heat sink.

FYI I have an AMD Athlon 64 3200 CPU.

Thanks

"Dundonald" wrote in message
ups.com...
Long story (background in thread "Newbie: 3 lots of CPU temp in
SpeedFan? 2 of them are overheating ..." from last week) but in
short I
have an over heating problem, I've done some tests, and today I
realised that the CPU heat sink is not getting warm at all but by
contrast the much smaller motherboard heat sink does warm up.

So the question I have is, what possible scenarios could stop the
CPU
heat transferring to the heat sink? I've pulled it off of the CPU
to
check that there is the usual 'grey' solution there and there is.
Any
help much appreciated on this one.

I originally thought there was a problem with the heat sink and fan
but
to fair the fan is keeping cool a heat sink that is not even getting
warm in the first place, hence my problem with the computer just
switching off. So I need to figure out why the CPU can't transfer
its
heat to the heat sink.

FYI I have an AMD Athlon 64 3200 CPU.


You have too much thermal paste. It is NOT a replacement for
metal-to-metal contact. It simply has a faster thermal transfer rate
than *air*. You want only enough to fill the microscopic pits in the
mating materials. It should be translucent when you put it on (i.e.,
thin enough that it looks translucent). Lapping helps to better mate
the surfaces but rare few users bother and even fewer know how to do
it.

Could be cheap paste - if it is paste. Remove it and apply fresh
paste. If it is a pad instead of paste, you just ruined the pad by
removing the heatsink so you will need to remove it and use another
pad (but paste is better provided you know how to apply it).

Could be you did not put the heatsink onto the CPU so that it is flat.
Even if you gob on the paste, it won't help it the heatsink is on at a
angle so that one side of the CPU isn't even touching the heatsink
(and, as mentioned, paste is not a substitute for metal).

Could be you didn't select the correct sensor in Speedfan (i.e.,
whatever is selected for the CPU really isn't the CPU's sensor).
Could be Speedfan won't work with your motherboard; i.e., it doesn't
have the lookup table for that setup or it is using the wrong table, a
defect that also occurs in Motherboard Monitor (MBM). Have you tried
the monitor software from the maker of your motherboard? When you
look at Speedfan and then reboot but go into BIOS, do the temperatures
listed in the BIOS match what Speedfan said?

When specifying temperatures (in your other post), be sure to specify
F (Fahrenheit) or Celsius (C). At 40 F, you are very VERY low in
temp. At 40 C, you are a long way aways from overheating and that is
considered a very good temperature for an AMD (Intels run cooler).
The AMD is rated to 80 C although some setups seem sensitive starting
around 70 C (but also check the BIOS settings to see what is set for
max or shutdown temperature). I have an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ that is
overclocked (by upping the FSB from 166 to 200) because the Barton can
handle that so mine is the equivalent of a 3200+ (same as yours). I
have Speedfan configured to reduce the fan speed until the "Desired"
temperature is 60 C (i.e., when the fans should come up in speed which
increases noise) and warn at 65 C. The BIOS is set to shutdown at 72
C. Stop listening to all those folks that are overclocking and who
are trying to minimize their temperatures. They lower their temps so
they can overclock more (and probably also have to up their voltages,
too). Are you overclocking? I've been overclocking my AMD for
several years and letting it go to 60 C (usually runs at 45-50 C) and
the system has been very stable. I did lap the heatsink and I did use
better paste (but not silver Artic since it is a wasted expense except
to extreme overclockers) along with replacing the standard heatsink
and fan with bigger units. Even if I had not been able to overclock
the Barton, I would still not worry about the CPU running at 50 to 60
C. The AMDs are rated to 80 C (some to 85 C).

If your AMD system is shutting down after only reaching 50 C when you
run your video software, the problem is with your video software, not
with the CPU temperature.

Joel wrote:

"Dundonald" wrote:

Long story (background in thread "Newbie: 3 lots of CPU temp in
SpeedFan? 2 of them are overheating ..." from last week) but in short I
have an over heating problem, I've done some tests, and today I
realised that the CPU heat sink is not getting warm at all but by
contrast the much smaller motherboard heat sink does warm up.

So the question I have is, what possible scenarios could stop the CPU
heat transferring to the heat sink? I've pulled it off of the CPU to
check that there is the usual 'grey' solution there and there is. Any
help much appreciated on this one.

I originally thought there was a problem with the heat sink and fan but
to fair the fan is keeping cool a heat sink that is not even getting
warm in the first place, hence my problem with the computer just
switching off. So I need to figure out why the CPU can't transfer its
heat to the heat sink.

FYI I have an AMD Athlon 64 3200 CPU.

Thanks

You may want to pay a visit to site like www.newegg.com and spend few
minutes to read all the end-users feedbacks about the CASE FAN section. Or
just do a quick SEARCH on Case Fan then read the feedbacks.

Vanguard wrote:

snip my post

Thanks very much for all of the posts and help so far.

snip

Could be you didn't select the correct sensor in Speedfan (i.e.,
whatever is selected for the CPU really isn't the CPU's sensor).
Could be Speedfan won't work with your motherboard; i.e., it doesn't
have the lookup table for that setup or it is using the wrong table, a
defect that also occurs in Motherboard Monitor (MBM). Have you tried
the monitor software from the maker of your motherboard? When you
look at Speedfan and then reboot but go into BIOS, do the temperatures
listed in the BIOS match what Speedfan said?

Temp reported in speedfan is similar to the CPU temp reported in the
BIOS.

When specifying temperatures (in your other post), be sure to specify
F (Fahrenheit) or Celsius (C).

Temperatures specified are in Celsius.

At 40 F, you are very VERY low in
temp. At 40 C, you are a long way aways from overheating and that is
considered a very good temperature for an AMD (Intels run cooler).
The AMD is rated to 80 C although some setups seem sensitive starting
around 70 C (but also check the BIOS settings to see what is set for
max or shutdown temperature).

I've checked every option in the BIOS and there doesn't appear to be a
max or shutdown temperature. Are there hidden menus?

I have an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ that is
overclocked (by upping the FSB from 166 to 200) because the Barton can
handle that so mine is the equivalent of a 3200+ (same as yours). I
have Speedfan configured to reduce the fan speed until the "Desired"
temperature is 60 C (i.e., when the fans should come up in speed which
increases noise) and warn at 65 C. The BIOS is set to shutdown at 72
C. Stop listening to all those folks that are overclocking and who
are trying to minimize their temperatures. They lower their temps so
they can overclock more (and probably also have to up their voltages,
too). Are you overclocking?

No overclocking here, just the bog standard clock speeds of 10 x 200.

I've been overclocking my AMD for
several years and letting it go to 60 C (usually runs at 45-50 C) and
the system has been very stable. I did lap the heatsink and I did use
better paste (but not silver Artic since it is a wasted expense except
to extreme overclockers) along with replacing the standard heatsink
and fan with bigger units. Even if I had not been able to overclock
the Barton, I would still not worry about the CPU running at 50 to 60
C. The AMDs are rated to 80 C (some to 85 C).

If your AMD system is shutting down after only reaching 50 C when you
run your video software, the problem is with your video software, not
with the CPU temperature.

The problem has been recreated by other software that puts load on CPU
such as the Prime95 torture test. I ran that, and once again the
computer switched off during the first test being performed during the
Prime95 torture test. I noticed that the temperature reported in
speedfan was at 53 Celcius when the computer switched off. When I
started the computer up again and went in to BIOS the CPU temp was
reported as 51 degrees Celcius so not far off. Also, as the computer
started to boot up, it kept switching off before windows XP had a
chance to finish loading. This will happen again and again until I
give the computer a chance to cool down. I guess the point here is
that the temp is not always exactly 60 degrees C when the computer
switches off.

I know I can go out and replace the stock fan and heatsink but I don't
want to do that unless I know the exact cause of the problem - I don't
want to shy over it.

Another update:

I did another test also, again starting from cold boot up, where I
disabled the CPUs fan (by removing the power cable from the
motherboard). I wanted to perform this test because as I describe in
the OP when I feel the heat sink it doesn't even feel warm. I booted
the PC up and almost straight away after XP had loaded the computer
switched itself off. So I guess some heat must be transferring from
the CPU to the heatsink, or at least the fan is helping the CPU a
little bit, but I can't understand why even during this test that the
heatsink just didn't feel warm at all.

Dundonald wrote:
Vanguard wrote:

snip my post

Thanks very much for all of the posts and help so far.

snip

Could be you didn't select the correct sensor in Speedfan (i.e.,
whatever is selected for the CPU really isn't the CPU's sensor).
Could be Speedfan won't work with your motherboard; i.e., it doesn't
have the lookup table for that setup or it is using the wrong table,
a defect that also occurs in Motherboard Monitor (MBM). Have you
tried the monitor software from the maker of your motherboard? When
you look at Speedfan and then reboot but go into BIOS, do the
temperatures listed in the BIOS match what Speedfan said?

Temp reported in speedfan is similar to the CPU temp reported in the
BIOS.

When specifying temperatures (in your other post), be sure to specify
F (Fahrenheit) or Celsius (C).

Temperatures specified are in Celsius.

At 40 F, you are very VERY low in
temp. At 40 C, you are a long way aways from overheating and that is
considered a very good temperature for an AMD (Intels run cooler).
The AMD is rated to 80 C although some setups seem sensitive starting
around 70 C (but also check the BIOS settings to see what is set for
max or shutdown temperature).

I've checked every option in the BIOS and there doesn't appear to be a
max or shutdown temperature. Are there hidden menus?

I have an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ that is
overclocked (by upping the FSB from 166 to 200) because the Barton
can handle that so mine is the equivalent of a 3200+ (same as
yours). I have Speedfan configured to reduce the fan speed until
the "Desired" temperature is 60 C (i.e., when the fans should come
up in speed which increases noise) and warn at 65 C. The BIOS is
set to shutdown at 72 C. Stop listening to all those folks that are
overclocking and who are trying to minimize their temperatures.
They lower their temps so they can overclock more (and probably also
have to up their voltages, too). Are you overclocking?

No overclocking here, just the bog standard clock speeds of 10 x 200.

I've been overclocking my AMD for
several years and letting it go to 60 C (usually runs at 45-50 C) and
the system has been very stable. I did lap the heatsink and I did
use better paste (but not silver Artic since it is a wasted expense
except to extreme overclockers) along with replacing the standard
heatsink and fan with bigger units. Even if I had not been able to
overclock the Barton, I would still not worry about the CPU running
at 50 to 60 C. The AMDs are rated to 80 C (some to 85 C).

If your AMD system is shutting down after only reaching 50 C when you
run your video software, the problem is with your video software, not
with the CPU temperature.

The problem has been recreated by other software that puts load on CPU
such as the Prime95 torture test. I ran that, and once again the
computer switched off during the first test being performed during the
Prime95 torture test. I noticed that the temperature reported in
speedfan was at 53 Celcius when the computer switched off. When I
started the computer up again and went in to BIOS the CPU temp was
reported as 51 degrees Celcius so not far off. Also, as the computer
started to boot up, it kept switching off before windows XP had a
chance to finish loading. This will happen again and again until I
give the computer a chance to cool down. I guess the point here is
that the temp is not always exactly 60 degrees C when the computer
switches off.

I know I can go out and replace the stock fan and heatsink but I don't
want to do that unless I know the exact cause of the problem - I don't
want to shy over it.

Another update:

I did another test also, again starting from cold boot up, where I
disabled the CPUs fan (by removing the power cable from the
motherboard). I wanted to perform this test because as I describe in
the OP when I feel the heat sink it doesn't even feel warm. I booted
the PC up and almost straight away after XP had loaded the computer
switched itself off. So I guess some heat must be transferring from
the CPU to the heatsink, or at least the fan is helping the CPU a
little bit, but I can't understand why even during this test that the
heatsink just didn't feel warm at all.

That last is pretty convincing evidence that the heatsink isnt properly mounted
on the cpu. Some can be put on backwards and dont work properly that way.
Backwards in the sense of 180 degrees off where they should be.

Joel wrote:

"Dundonald" wrote:

Joel wrote:

"Dundonald" wrote:

Long story (background in thread "Newbie: 3 lots of CPU temp in
SpeedFan? 2 of them are overheating ..." from last week) but in short I
have an over heating problem, I've done some tests, and today I
realised that the CPU heat sink is not getting warm at all but by
contrast the much smaller motherboard heat sink does warm up.

So the question I have is, what possible scenarios could stop the CPU
heat transferring to the heat sink? I've pulled it off of the CPU to
check that there is the usual 'grey' solution there and there is. Any
help much appreciated on this one.

I originally thought there was a problem with the heat sink and fan but
to fair the fan is keeping cool a heat sink that is not even getting
warm in the first place, hence my problem with the computer just
switching off. So I need to figure out why the CPU can't transfer its
heat to the heat sink.

FYI I have an AMD Athlon 64 3200 CPU.

Thanks

You may want to pay a visit to site like www.newegg.com and spend few
minutes to read all the end-users feedbacks about the CASE FAN section. Or
just do a quick SEARCH on Case Fan then read the feedbacks.

..and if you want to make sure that the heat doesn't stay cool (or to test
it out).

- Put a small drop of super-glue to your finger, and stick the finger to the
Heat-sink. IOW, to make you can feel the heat, and make sure the system is
running (I just make sure you'll have a well roasted finger) bg

- And if you can't feel anything then like I said, go back to the site I
mentioned above and do some searching.

They have not Case Fan, but CPU fan, heat-sink, heat-sink paste, and lot
of end-users feedbacks. Many different sizes and different prices

THanks JOel.

Rod Speed wrote:

That last is pretty convincing evidence that the heatsink isnt properly mounted
on the cpu. Some can be put on backwards and dont work properly that way.
Backwards in the sense of 180 degrees off where they should be.

Rod, thanks for the post. I didn't realise that a heat sink could be
put on the wrong way. I'll try spinning the heat sink and fan 180
degrees back around see if that makes any difference. Out of interest,
how can it make a difference, I haven't checked in detail but is the
top of the CPU and the base of the heat sink not flat so in either way
around they should both perform the same?