Intermittent PC lock up

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
Again - so many posts - so much speculation - and not once
have basic numbers been provided. Amazed that people would
spend hours debating what the 3.5 digit multimeter should have
answered in a minute.

Not everyone has a 3.5 digit multimeter., they are a pretty specialised
piece of equipment and I don't need one to tell you what it would
read on my machine right now the answer is 5V or 12V if it used 12V.
Basically it would not show a fault.
Anyway I have 3 different fixes 'in the pot' and I have had no trouble
for a few ways so I can't justify buying a meter I will probably never
use again.
(Background compacting in OE turned off)
(OE data files back my master drive)
(Hardware acceleration turned off)
Putting an extra load on the power supply would probably be an
cheaper test method anyway.

Gentlemen. I designed this stuff. If
you choose to keep speculating without even some numbers, then
you are doomed to be called a Debating Club.

Not one useful fact that says it is or it is not a PSU.
Provided was procedure to say "yes or no" - in seconds.

If you have a meter.

But
you must record and report those numbers. Not from a
motherboard monitor that cannot accurately provide data. The
trivial 3.5 digit multimeter - that even high school science
students can use - is where diagnosis begins. Why so much
fear and ignorance of a tool that even school students use?
Fear and Loathing on the Computer Trail of 2004?

I have used far more complicate test equipment than a multimeter
in my time I can assure you!
I have used oscilloscopes that look like the flight deck of concord.

If it was my PSU I suspect I would have experiences problems
burning cd's (as opposed to say typing in a news message) but I have
not so that now seems fairly unlikely.
Also given the proliferation of bugs in MS software I think I should
fully explore that avenue before forking out any money.

Anyhow debating possible solutions to problems is quite an education
in itself!


half_pint wrote:
Well it not the PSU then!!
I don't think mine is the PSU either but who knows I haven't had
any probs in a few days since making a few changes so I wil wait
and see.

I think always geting this prob 20 mins into an avi points to
software.

But then his experiments with a fan may suggest otherwise!!

His 'cold starting' problems may be due to condensation?
Causing a short circuit?

"Putim" wrote in message
om...
never turn out as you expect them to do they!!
But at least you appear to have found a way of making the
problem more predictable and consistant so it should be
easier to solve. (I am not to sure how though).

Some thing to consider.
1) Does making the PC cooler make the problem worse?
2) Could the fan be making part of the PC *warmer* by
working *against* the other fans in the PC?
(I would suggest using a hairdryer(on cold) against some
of the fans to investigate)
3) Is the fan blowing dust or dirt around or into the PC
causing a short circuit somewhere.
4) Cooling causes metal conductors(wires) to shrink and
could make a bad cable worse. The same might go for
poorly seated connectors.
5) The airflow could aslo move frayed cables causing a break.
6) The air flow could change the voltage on 'dry joint'
(unconnected pin) as the air flow could increase or decrease
the charge on a pin quicker.

I would test the effects of a different fan speed and possibly
using a fan heater (but be careful not tomake the air too warm
as that might cause futher damage).
Maybe you could use a hair dryer to be more selective
with the air flow? They usually have several setting I imagine.

They would also be useful for blowing away dirt, unfortunately
I don't have one!( I have some debris inside the mobo).

What you really need is another computer so you can swop
parts around. Cables and mother boards would be a good starting point.


Cheers for that Half Pint...I have since tried different fan speeeds,
this beasts got 3, I also tried moving the fan slowly further away
from the open tower after each crash...I also forgot to say that the
fan causes a different fault...when the pc is cold (as in, being off
all night) when booted it reboots almost instantly..and keeps
rebooting for about 10-12 times, each boot getting a little further
into windows, until a certain temp is reached, then it'll run for
ever....until the dreaded
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep noise and the pc locks
instantly...and the beep which ever note media player was playing at
the time

I also tried to leave the side off the pc, but with no fan at all...I
had 2 windows open at the time and the was a very slight draft...and
after about 20 minutes the pc must have got too cold, and it powered
off instantly and booted up again...I then put the panel back in again
to keep the heat in a little...

It seems the pc doesnt like being below 42 degrees (CPU), and 34 for
the MBoard.

Hope that fills in some blanks.!

Just been thinking

Your 'cold starting' problems may be due to condensation?
Causing a short circuit?
This could explain why it runs better when warm?

Maybe its the light! Maybe the CPU is allergic to the light! lol


Light is energy, caused heat. Expands metal. Evapourates water.

What? You have a screw driver and don't have a 3.5 digit
multimeter. Meters are even sold in Sears, Home Depot, Lowes,
and Radio
Shack. So inexpensive as to make a power supply appear to be
priced like it was gold. If you don't have a multimeter,
well, that would explain why this technical discussion is
really only a Debating Society. People with too much time on
their hands, no basic tools, and no real interest in getting
the task done.

You have a few $thousand oscilloscope but you don't even
have a $15 multimeter? I doubt it. But even with the
oscilloscope, those power supply problems could have been
identified or eliminated as reasons for failure - in seconds.
Even oscilloscope could have ended the debate immediately.
Oscilloscope was an even better tool. No one can say if
problem is or is not PSU on speculation. Without a
screwdriver to open system and without a meter (or
oscilloscope) to see what a human cannot, then any solution is
only speculation - also called shotgunning.

Whether one has a meter is irrelevant. The question now is
whether one wants to be a Debating Society. Meters are that
ubiquitous AND that inexpensive. Apparently the problem has
been identified. Human fears both technology and learning.

Fear of the meter also suggests you probably don't even know
how to use the oscilloscope. Even oscilloscope could have
made this debate immediately redundant. All this PSU
discussion without a single numerical reading is both time and
newsgroup bandwidth wasted. No numbers is akin to making a
conclusion using classic junk science reasoning. Anyone who
wants to solve a computer problem (and other electrical
problems as well), without debating, has a 3.5 digit
multimeter - to do in minutes what has not even been resolved
for days.

half_pint wrote:
Not everyone has a 3.5 digit multimeter., they are a pretty
specialised piece of equipment and I don't need one to tell
you what it would read on my machine right now the answer is
V or 12V if it used 12V. Basically it would not show a fault.
Anyway I have 3 different fixes 'in the pot' and I have had no
trouble for a few ways so I can't justify buying a meter I
will probably never use again.
(Background compacting in OE turned off)
(OE data files back my master drive)
(Hardware acceleration turned off)
Putting an extra load on the power supply would probably be an
cheaper test method anyway.
...

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
What? You have a screw driver and don't have a 3.5 digit
multimeter. Meters are even sold in Sears, Home Depot, Lowes,
and Radio
Shack. So inexpensive as to make a power supply appear to be
priced like it was gold. If you don't have a multimeter,
well, that would explain why this technical discussion is
really only a Debating Society. People with too much time on
their hands, no basic tools, and no real interest in getting
the task done.

You have a few $thousand oscilloscope but you don't even
have a $15 multimeter?
I don't have one I have used one at university amngst other places.
If I did have one I would not need a multimeter anyway.


I doubt it. But even with the
oscilloscope, those power supply problems could have been
identified or eliminated as reasons for failure - in seconds.
Even oscilloscope could have ended the debate immediately.
Oscilloscope was an even better tool. No one can say if
problem is or is not PSU on speculation. Without a
screwdriver to open system and without a meter (or
oscilloscope) to see what a human cannot, then any solution is
only speculation - also called shotgunning.

Whether one has a meter is irrelevant. The question now is
whether one wants to be a Debating Society. Meters are that
ubiquitous AND that inexpensive. Apparently the problem has
been identified. Human fears both technology and learning.

Fear of the meter also suggests you probably don't even know
how to use the oscilloscope.

I most certaintly do.

Even oscilloscope could have
made this debate immediately redundant. All this PSU
discussion without a single numerical reading is both time and
newsgroup bandwidth wasted.
Not necessialarly.
In my case (literally) a 90W PSU is a reasonably suspect given

I have expanded beyond the available spare slots.

No numbers is akin to making a
conclusion using classic junk science reasoning. Anyone who
wants to solve a computer problem (and other electrical
problems as well), without debating, has a 3.5 digit
multimeter - to do in minutes what has not even been resolved
for days.


Looks like my problem may well be solved with 4 days
of error free running, I will declare it fixed after a week.

My problem then will be to determine which of the three
possible solutions cured it.

1) Disableing background compacting in OE as advised in
an OE newsgroup. (although I though
I tried this unsuccesfully before).

2) Reducing hardware accekeration in performance/graphics.

3) Putting OE's message cache back on my master drive.


I am thinking it maybe best to try in the listed order ny
reenabling each in order.

I think I will try no 1 now to save time.

"half_pint" wrote in message
...

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
What? You have a screw driver and don't have a 3.5 digit
multimeter. Meters are even sold in Sears, Home Depot, Lowes,
and Radio
Shack. So inexpensive as to make a power supply appear to be
priced like it was gold. If you don't have a multimeter,
well, that would explain why this technical discussion is
really only a Debating Society. People with too much time on
their hands, no basic tools, and no real interest in getting
the task done.

You have a few $thousand oscilloscope but you don't even
have a $15 multimeter?
I don't have one I have used one at university amngst other places.
If I did have one I would not need a multimeter anyway.


I doubt it. But even with the
oscilloscope, those power supply problems could have been
identified or eliminated as reasons for failure - in seconds.
Even oscilloscope could have ended the debate immediately.
Oscilloscope was an even better tool. No one can say if
problem is or is not PSU on speculation. Without a
screwdriver to open system and without a meter (or
oscilloscope) to see what a human cannot, then any solution is
only speculation - also called shotgunning.

Whether one has a meter is irrelevant. The question now is
whether one wants to be a Debating Society. Meters are that
ubiquitous AND that inexpensive. Apparently the problem has
been identified. Human fears both technology and learning.

Fear of the meter also suggests you probably don't even know
how to use the oscilloscope.

I most certaintly do.

Even oscilloscope could have
made this debate immediately redundant. All this PSU
discussion without a single numerical reading is both time and
newsgroup bandwidth wasted.
Not necessialarly.
In my case (literally) a 90W PSU is a reasonably suspect given

I have expanded beyond the available spare slots.

No numbers is akin to making a
conclusion using classic junk science reasoning. Anyone who
wants to solve a computer problem (and other electrical
problems as well), without debating, has a 3.5 digit
multimeter - to do in minutes what has not even been resolved
for days.


Looks like my problem may well be solved with 4 days
of error free running, I will declare it fixed after a week.

My problem then will be to determine which of the three
possible solutions cured it.

1) Disableing background compacting in OE as advised in
an OE newsgroup. (although I though
I tried this unsuccesfully before).

2) Reducing hardware accekeration in performance/graphics.

3) Putting OE's message cache back on my master drive.


I am thinking it maybe best to try in the listed order ny
reenabling each in order.

I think I will try no 1 now to save time.

Well I have has a) on for a day now with no problems.
I also have increased b) a step (of four settings)
(been increased for a few days actually)
I may well be 3) but its far to early to say, as I though I had a freeze
but it turns out it wasn't.

Well I have has a) on for a day now with no problems.
I also have increased b) a step (of four settings)
(been increased for a few days actually)
I may well be 3) but its far to early to say, as I though I had a freeze
but it turns out it wasn't.


OK, here it is.!!!

We have a FIX!!!!!!!!!!

I have now bought another Motherboard and a stick of DDR Ram to go
with it and the pc has now been on for 3 days, encoding video and
playing Avi files without 1 crash!!!

Thank you for all your help guys.!!! It's finally
sorted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YEEEPPEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!