A computer components & hardware forum. HardwareBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HardwareBanter forum » General Hardware & Peripherals » Homebuilt PC's
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

2T SSD SATA - $250



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 12th 18, 06:23 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,001
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.

Except, it is MICRON branded.

My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping

Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.
  #2  
Old June 12th 18, 07:12 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 731
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

Flasherly wrote:
Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.

Except, it is MICRON branded.

My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping

Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.


It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.

https://www.micron.com/~/media/docum...duct_brief.pdf

And there should be QLC based drives soon, so the price
might come down a tiny bit more. The TBW could be worse
on the QLC based drive (four bits stored per Flash cell,
Flash cells chained in cylindrical columns in the chip).

Paul
  #3  
Old June 12th 18, 07:48 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Lynn McGuire[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 110
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

On 6/12/2018 1:12 PM, Paul wrote:
Flasherly wrote:
Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.
Except, it is MICRON branded.
My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping


Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.


It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.

https://www.micron.com/~/media/docum...duct_brief.pdf


And there should be QLC based drives soon, so the price
might come down a tiny bit more. The TBW could be worse
on the QLC based drive (four bits stored per Flash cell,
Flash cells chained in cylindrical columns in the chip).

** Paul


Only 200 writes per sector ?

Lynn
  #4  
Old June 12th 18, 08:02 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 731
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/12/2018 1:12 PM, Paul wrote:
Flasherly wrote:
Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.
Except, it is MICRON branded.
My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping


Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.


It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.

https://www.micron.com/~/media/docum...duct_brief.pdf


And there should be QLC based drives soon, so the price
might come down a tiny bit more. The TBW could be worse
on the QLC based drive (four bits stored per Flash cell,
Flash cells chained in cylindrical columns in the chip).

Paul


Only 200 writes per sector ?

Lynn


It's a TBW rating, and I presume takes write amplification
into account.

I don't think I have the skill set to map the flash chip
endurance rating, to TBW. Half the time, we can't get an
honest endurance number for the flash anyway.

You know, even hard drives have TBW ratings now. Something
about the expected amount of usage so that a unit will
pass the warranty period in one piece. Maybe an enterprise
class hard drive might have a 550TBW rating. Which you might
easily exceed without too much effort in the run of a year.
And the different price ranges of drives, have a rough
relationship to the TBW value. The entry level drives have
lower values than that.

You can also get into the old "IBM problem", where IBM started
putting information in datasheets, indicating the DeathStar
couldn't be operated 24 hours a day forever. And that notion
is leaking back into datasheets now too. It's all a bit
discouraging. There hasn't been a stink about it, like when
IBM pulled that the first time. The other companies
are not getting called on it.

There is some move to make platters thinner (so they
can stuff more of them into high capacity drives).

There was yet another mention of glass platters
coming back.

The only thing I haven't seen recently, is any
more experimental results on "zero flying height"
drives. HGST managed to grind the heads off
the arm in about 30 days, while flying at zero
nanometers, in a lab experiment.

At least there's no sign an SSD can't have the power
left on all the time :-) Even if the write life
leaves something to be desired (imagine if QLC
needs "refresh writes" to improve the error rate
over time...). All the tech seems to be headed
into the dumper.

Paul
  #5  
Old June 12th 18, 09:03 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Lynn McGuire[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 110
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

On 6/12/2018 2:02 PM, Paul wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 6/12/2018 1:12 PM, Paul wrote:
Flasherly wrote:
Direct Chinese marketing - no warranty, no nothing.
Except, it is MICRON branded.
My Micron, I bought, a USA-distribution of their 256G SSD,
cost me four-times, per GByte, more.

IOW if that same drive, cost adjusted for this one, it would have cost
me $30 instead of $120 I paid:

https://slickdeals.net/f/11690051-2t...-free-shipping


Half off the usual market value, still, does tend to bear a little
weight on plattered drives.

It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.

https://www.micron.com/~/media/docum...duct_brief.pdf


And there should be QLC based drives soon, so the price
might come down a tiny bit more. The TBW could be worse
on the QLC based drive (four bits stored per Flash cell,
Flash cells chained in cylindrical columns in the chip).

*** Paul


Only 200 writes per sector ?

Lynn


It's a TBW rating, and I presume takes write amplification
into account.

I don't think I have the skill set to map the flash chip
endurance rating, to TBW. Half the time, we can't get an
honest endurance number for the flash anyway.

You know, even hard drives have TBW ratings now. Something
about the expected amount of usage so that a unit will
pass the warranty period in one piece. Maybe an enterprise
class hard drive might have a 550TBW rating. Which you might
easily exceed without too much effort in the run of a year.
And the different price ranges of drives, have a rough
relationship to the TBW value. The entry level drives have
lower values than that.

You can also get into the old "IBM problem", where IBM started
putting information in datasheets, indicating the DeathStar
couldn't be operated 24 hours a day forever. And that notion
is leaking back into datasheets now too. It's all a bit
discouraging. There hasn't been a stink about it, like when
IBM pulled that the first time. The other companies
are not getting called on it.

There is some move to make platters thinner (so they
can stuff more of them into high capacity drives).

There was yet another mention of glass platters
coming back.

The only thing I haven't seen recently, is any
more experimental results on "zero flying height"
drives. HGST managed to grind the heads off
the arm in about 30 days, while flying at zero
nanometers, in a lab experiment.

At least there's no sign an SSD can't have the power
left on all the time :-) Even if the write life
leaves something to be desired (imagine if QLC
needs "refresh writes" to improve the error rate
over time...). All the tech seems to be headed
into the dumper.

** Paul


I was really hoping that we were heading to 100 year capable devices.

Lynn

  #6  
Old June 13th 18, 12:41 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,001
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:12:05 -0400, Paul
wrote:

It uses 3D TLC and is rated at 400TBW. That means,
as a 2TB drive, you can write it end to end 200 times.
Suitable for backups, subject to that limit.


Much generally stated for higher endurance here. How Micron managed
to get down to 200, presumably from the linked tech sheet, is really
quite amazing. Well, up to something short of a point of leaping tall
buildings in a single bound.

No, wait, ... it's government inspired technological RAM.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12920...hinese-3d-nand

.. . .

TLC flash has lower write endurance than both SLC and MLC flash. In
general, the more bits of data and levels of charge that a planar NAND
flash cell has, the fewer P/E cycles, or write cycles, it supports.
SLC flash memory cells can withstand 50,000 to 100,000 P/E cycles
before wearing out. A 2-bit planar MLC memory cell typically tolerates
no more than 3,000 P/E cycles, and enterprise-grade MLC (eMLC) planar
NAND has a limit of 10,000 P/E cycles. A planar TLC memory cell
generally can sustain no more than 500 or 1,000 write cycles. However,
with 3D NAND technology, the TLC size is larger, and it can approach
the endurance level of planar floating-gate-based MLC flash.
https://searchstorage.techtarget.com...vel-cell-flash


I'd personally question if I'd even want to classify the stuff in a
storage capacity.
  #7  
Old June 13th 18, 12:49 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,001
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 13:23:43 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

- My Micron


-
Mis-statement: No coffee, no putt-putt

I own a Crucial 256G SSD drive.
  #8  
Old June 13th 18, 02:21 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 731
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

Flasherly wrote:

I'd personally question if I'd even want to classify the stuff in a
storage capacity.


It's because of "wear leveling", that the number of write
cycles on each cell is approximately the same at end of life.

The drive keeps track of how many writes have happened, in
order to spread out the wear.

The method used on USB flash sticks, is obviously inferior
to the method used on SSD drives. (I had two USB TLC sticks
die after only one year of very light usage.)

I think the methods might have names such as "static wear leveling"
and "dynamic wear leveling".

Paul
  #9  
Old June 13th 18, 06:01 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,001
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 21:21:39 -0400, Paul
wrote:

The method used on USB flash sticks, is obviously inferior
to the method used on SSD drives. (I had two USB TLC sticks
die after only one year of very light usage.)


I could use TLC in an archival capacity. And I'm sure someone would
like me to, by selling their product.

Earlier mentioned from the prior paper detailing planar charge states,
TLC being the more complex, has upwards to approaching ten voltage
levels committed at a foundation change state, let alone write
capacity. Hence to the later speed factoring for lower performance.

At that complexity, no less, when further lowered for congenital
degeneration at service life of 200 cycles, I'd wonder, how far is
such an extremity from purported more positive aspects of TLC as well
mentioned, and if that distance of impositions and limitations are,
altogether, to be disposed at an earlier stage of technological
interpretation increasingly lacking appreciable relevance.

Incredulous as it may seem to read of a SSD failure, and as certain as
it is easier to afford to say to stick to a likes leading the
forefront of SSD quality, Samsung or Intel, although that can only
then underline a greater significance for value given plattered drives
that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
  #10  
Old June 13th 18, 04:15 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Larc[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default 2T SSD SATA - $250

On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 01:01:58 -0400, Flasherly wrote:

| Incredulous as it may seem to read of a SSD failure, and as certain as
| it is easier to afford to say to stick to a likes leading the
| forefront of SSD quality, Samsung or Intel, although that can only
| then underline a greater significance for value given plattered drives
| that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

SSDs serve as system drives in my 4 PCs, but I use HDDs for storage (and regular
backups of the SSDs) and have no plans to change that setup. I know lots of others
use the same arrangement, so guess many HDDs are still being sold.

Larc
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Changing SATA bios mode from native SATA to IDE - file or volume accessissues DOS Guy Storage (alternative) 8 October 25th 09 04:32 PM
Any SATA External Enclosures That Work With Dell Precision SATA Drives? Will Dell Computers 1 January 3rd 07 07:35 AM
p4p800se and wdc2500ks 250gb sata: imo always use the asus-supplied sata cables fredo Asus Motherboards 0 November 1st 06 04:28 PM
SATA & SCSI, SATA link & SATA Raid Aldo Larrabiata Asus Motherboards 1 December 2nd 04 08:27 PM
7vaxp ultra sata controller bios and SATA data corruption Dimitris Gigabyte Motherboards 0 December 1st 03 02:18 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 HardwareBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.