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Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I have the right stick?



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 17th 07, 04:54 PM posted to uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt
lordy
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Posts: 36
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I have the right stick?

On 2007-06-17, John Jordan wrote:
Conor wrote:

Well when you're building systems, you only need to build a handful and
have all the problems generic RAM from Scan/Aria/et al seem to always
have and you'll buy Crucial every time. Generic RAM either doesn't work
or fails within 12-18 months - most of that is because the cheaper
stuff uses chips recovered from faulty DIMMS in manufacture.

Crucial RAM is NOT that much more than generic. It's certainly within a
couple of quid and if you're just buying RAM, then the lack of a £6.95
+VAT postage charge makes it cheaper.


Crucial charge 50 quid atm for a 1GB PC3200 stick compared to ~35 quid
for an unbranded stick, so I guess it's tempting. I've been through the
generic RAM business though, and I agree that it's not worth it.

Other branded memory at least doesn't have the cell and PCB faults of
generic memory, but Crucial has better single-stick compatibility IME
than Corsair, Kingston or OCZ.


I picked some up for 42 new from funkygiraffe on ebay.
Also got some second hand ones fine. As long as you look for Low Density
in the description or get a full Chip/Stick code and look it up
yourself.
Then do a FULL memtest (1G sticks tend to be CL3) before booting your real
OS.
Then if thats OK run prime95 Torture Test for about 30 minutes.

Lordy


  #22  
Old June 17th 07, 05:19 PM posted to uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt
John Jordan
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Posts: 75
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I havethe right stick?

lordy wrote:

I think sides != ranks. Rank is the important thing. Sides is not so
relevant. Happy to be corrected.


Ranks is the least ambiguous, but then most people don't seem to know
what it means. The AMD docs use ranks, but the motherboard manual
writers translate this to sides. The Intel docs use ranks, sides and
banks interchangeably, which is bizarre because "banks" has another
meaning for SDRAM.

Usually sides == ranks, with the main exception being those cheap "high
density" sticks on eBay. These have chips on both sides but only one
rank. Registered memory usually has the same organisation.

A chunk of AMD's S939 table for completeness:

max speed
slot1 slot2 1T 2T

single rank none 400 400
double rank none 400 400
single rank single rank 333 400
single rank double rank 200 400
double rank single rank 200 400
double rank double rank 200 333


--
John Jordan
  #23  
Old June 17th 07, 08:56 PM posted to uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt
Jonathan
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Posts: 23
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I have the right stick?

On Jun 17, 5:19 pm, John Jordan wrote:

Usually sides == ranks, with the main exception being those cheap "high
density" sticks on eBay. These have chips on both sides but only one
rank. Registered memory usually has the same organisation.


Phew! My head aches! I got a reply from the generic manufacturer.They
say:

Dear Jonathan,

Regarding the sticker, It is not our label and looks like applied by one of the buyers/distributors.

You should be aware and see the motherboard guide, that I865 chipsed geometry has been designed,
when 1Gbit technology (128x8 dies in our case) hasn't present in the market.

For this reason, A13 addres just doesn't layed out in this motherboard and such modules can be wrong recognized
by I865 chipset as 512Mb modules only.

Next I915 generation working fine with 1Gb/400 modules, populated with 128x8 dies.

May I suggest you to renew the motherboard to enjoy for the better performance of 1Gbit generation

or to replace this modules to the 16 chips 64x8 populated.

Thank you,


  #24  
Old June 17th 07, 09:31 PM posted to uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt
John Jordan
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Posts: 75
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I havethe right stick?

Jonathan wrote:

Phew! My head aches! I got a reply from the generic manufacturer.They
say:

[snip]

I'm almost shocked that they a) replied to you and b) know what they're
talking about. If you're still confused, the key point is that there are
two common ways to construct a 1GB stick - you can use 16 512Mbit chips
or 8 1Gbit chips (1 byte = 8 bits). Your board only supports 512Mbit,
256Mbit and 128Mbit chips.

There are other compatibility issues, but they only apply if you're
using multiple sticks per channel or buying unbranded memory.


--
John Jordan
  #25  
Old June 18th 07, 12:06 AM posted to uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt
Conor
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Posts: 562
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I have the right stick?

In article , John Jordan says...
Conor wrote:

Yes they do take account of the DS/SS issue. Why do you think Johannes
would benefit from having SS over DS? Do you think it makes any
difference?


For DDR400 at least, the more sides or ranks you have in a channel, the
less likely it is to work at SPD speeds and timings. This is explicitly
stated in AMD's Athlon 64 technical specs, and is also true for other
memory controllers. DDR400 was always a borderline technology.

Rubbish.

Because all recent DDR chipsets support 512mbit chip density, the 512MB
PC3200 sticks with the best overall compatibility are single sided,
8-chip. Crucial just sent me 8 or 16 chip sticks at random, as far as I
can tell.

They didn't.


--
Conor

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.........
  #26  
Old June 18th 07, 12:17 PM posted to uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt
Jonathan
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Posts: 23
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I have the right stick?

I found an answer and if anyone's got the inclination, there now
follows a LONG posting which details everything I found out about the
perils of trying to save £8!

To summarize: I made two separate orders of Ebuyer 1GB DDR PC3200
400MHz 184pin Extra Value Ram which is located at http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/63128
According to the information I had available, this is the correct
memory for my Medion MD8083.
When it arrived, it didn't work and I contacted the memory
manufacturer listed on the back of the chip and also asked Medion, and
they said that this is because it is "high density RAM" which isn't
compatible with a lot of boards.

On 17 Jun, 21:31, John Jordan wrote:

Apparently the motherboard in that PC has the Intel 865PE chipset. These
only support chip densities up to 512mbit, so 8-chip 1GB sticks will not
work.


Even though I'd been building and fixing systems for myself, friends,
family and colleagues for 9 years, I never realised this or came
across this issue before. I must have just got lucky!

Those cheap 16-chip "high density" sticks they sell on eBay won't
work either, but for a different reason.


Yes, I think I might have found something about that!
http://www.ev4.org/wordpress/2007/04...plot-thickens/
http://www.ev4.org/wordpress/categor...memorymanscam/

Branded 16-chip 1GB sticks should work fine, but these will be more
expensive.


If you're still confused, the key point is that there are
two common ways to construct a 1GB stick - you can use 16 512Mbit chips
or 8 1Gbit chips (1 byte = 8 bits). Your board only supports 512Mbit,
256Mbit and 128Mbit chips.


Well, eBuyer customer services said they'd mark the RAM as faulty and
I could upgrade to some Crucial memory.
I used both the crucial configurator and crucial scanner and it gave
different results, all showing as compatible:

System Scanner
CT495852 - DDR PC2700 · CL=2.5
CT495874 - DDR PC3200 · CL=3

Memory Advisor
CT434198 DDR PC3200 · CL=3
CT434186 DDR PC2700 · CL=2.5

I believe what I have in there already is non-ecc RAM and my idea is
to keep the CL=2.5 memory in there so I have 1Gb256Mb1Gb256Mb in
the slots in order to make 2.5Gb. Am I correct in assuming that CL2.5
is faster because of the reduced clock cycles to get data in and out?
But then, the 2700 always seems to be cl3 and what I have already is
pc3200 - should I stick to 3200?

At this point I got befuddled again and decided to follow some good
advice:

On 15 Jun, 22:31, Conor wrote:

Pick up the phone and ring the 0800 number...


So, I called Crucial on 0800 013 0330 and spoke to a very helpful man
who answered the phone instantly and cleared up my confusion:
He said that ALL Crucial 1Gb sticks are 16 chip, and the fact that the
configurator picked different model numbers for what looked like the
same chip is because it IS the same chip, but the differing CT numbers
are because the system generates differing numbers depending on
whether you drilled down by motherboard, chipset, system or used the
scanner.

So, at last, after a long weekend and a chat with Crucial, I found a
part number that was both compatible AND stocked by eBuyer -
CT12864Z40B.

Great! I phoned to check whether I could merge the two orders into
one, so I could pay the difference for the better memory, just because
they seem to be doing free postage over £50, so I'd save a bit and
they'd save on shipping and handling.
I wasn't particularly expecting it to be possible, but what I
definitely wasn't expecting was to find that they cannot change any
item ordered via Google Checkout!
Yes, you read it right. So, I lose the free shipping and the Google
Checkout discount (because the items have to be refunded) so in all it
will cost me £24.40 extra (plus the cost of the RAM).

So, by buying cheap RAM to save £8 over the cost of 2Gb, I've ended up
costing myself a large part of the weekend and nearly £25.

To be fair, I've been buying generic stuff for about 8 years and never
run into a problem like this before. I'm happy that I bought a generic
1Gb USB stick a year ago for £10; Dell were charging £50 for a 256Mb
stick with the word "Dell" on it. Had I realised the Crucial stuff was
only £8 more, I'd have bought it anyway.

And I've learnt a lot about memory, thanks in particular to the very
knowledgeable John Jordan. Now, have I got the inclination to start
the whole process again?!

  #27  
Old June 18th 07, 02:30 PM posted to uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt
Mike Scott
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Posts: 11
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I havethe right stick?

Jonathan wrote:
....
Pick up the phone and ring the 0800 number...


So, I called Crucial on 0800 013 0330 and spoke to a very helpful man
who answered the phone instantly and cleared up my confusion:
He said that ALL Crucial 1Gb sticks are 16 chip, and the fact that the


Then he was wrong. I've just rma'd a 1G stick of 8-chip memory which
Crucial sold me for a C7/CN700-based board, which only saw 512Mb of it.

And the replacement doesn't work at full speed either (two sticks of it)
because the timing's wrong somewhere.... the subject of another thread
in u.c.h.

And I thought Crucial were reliable :-)

--
Mike Scott (unet at scottsonline.org.uk)
Harlow Essex England
  #28  
Old June 19th 07, 12:27 AM posted to uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt
John Jordan
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Posts: 75
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I havethe right stick?

Mike Scott wrote:
Jonathan wrote:
....

Pick up the phone and ring the 0800 number...



So, I called Crucial on 0800 013 0330 and spoke to a very helpful man
who answered the phone instantly and cleared up my confusion:
He said that ALL Crucial 1Gb sticks are 16 chip, and the fact that the



Then he was wrong. I've just rma'd a 1G stick of 8-chip memory which
Crucial sold me for a C7/CN700-based board, which only saw 512Mb of it.


I suspect he meant all 1GB DDR sticks. 1Gbit chips are mainstream for
DDR2, and would probably work in any chipset except the CN700 :-)

I believe the CN800 supports 1Gbit chips, although VIA's "documentation"
is so minimal that it's hard to be sure without trying it. They claim
4GB maximum as against 2GB for the CN700, which does suggest 1Gbit support.


--
John Jordan
  #29  
Old June 19th 07, 09:52 AM posted to uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt
johannes
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Posts: 4
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know I havetheright stick?



John Jordan wrote:

Conor wrote:
In article , John Jordan says...


I guess that might be useful if you were trying to get single-sided
sticks in preference to double sided, but it's still ridiculous that
they don't put the information on their online specs.


Shouldn't matter as the aim of the game is compatibility and if you use
the selector tool, that's what you'll get.


I don't think they take account of the DS/SS issue - I can recall a case
where they sent Johannes a pair of double-sided 512MB sticks when
single-sided sticks may well have worked.

--
John Jordan


The problem I had was a flaky memory performance when using 4 slots. It
didn't matter whether the new memory were in 3,4 or in 1,2 . However,
using 2 slots alone always worked whether new or old memory. Hence I put
the problem down to the motherboard. (Yet another dimension of trouble).
Searching newsgroups, I found another case of a similar experience. In the
end, I ordered 2x1GB Kingston instead.
  #30  
Old June 19th 07, 10:35 AM posted to uk.comp.vendors
Trev
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Posts: 43
Default Ebuyer unbranded memory doesn't work - how do I even know Ihave the right stick?


"James Wilkinson" wrote in message
...
Another Dave wrote:
Memory is the only thing I never buy cheap. Buy the stuff from Crucial
that
they recommend.

I regard my time (even leisure time) as valuable; wasting hours fiddling
around with dodgy memory for the sake of 10 or 20 pounds isn't worth it.


Dave, I would agree, except I'd want to go further.

If you have dodgy memory in a PC, and you use an operating system that
writes to media (which is sort of common), then it's quite possible for
the dodgy memory to make the OS write nonsense over anything on that
media.

If you have data on a PC, and it's not backed up, you don't really have
it. You certainly don't if the memory is dodgy.

So even if your time isn't worth £20, is your data worth that much?

Been there, done that, found out how good my backups were¹. I've now got
ECC memory from Crucial...

James.

¹ With the exception of three downloaded files (I couldn't remember what
they were, so I couldn't download them), Good Enough.

--
E-mail: james@ | ... and watched Richard Stallman ask one of the
waiting
aprilcottage.co.uk | staff whether the spring rolls did indeed spring and
| whether they would bounce.
| -- Telsa Gwynne



Your post arived here dated the 16 th Your a very sloe typer :¬))


 




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