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#1
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C2 errors and CDR media questions
I've been working with a friend to find out the CDR media that work
best with his Marantz CDR-510 Professional. I've got a Plextor Premium drive and compared the C1/C2 error rates of the copies he made of Pancho Sanchez's albumn, Papa Gato. We used four types of CDR media, Fuji, Taiyo Yuden, TDK, and Phillips. The TDK and Phillips media are audio CDs. I ran a C1/C2/CU test on all of these including the original. The results are as follows: --Original, pressed CD-- C1 Avg/Sec: 2.9 Max/Sec: 37 Total: 7,700 C2 N/A --TDK-- C1 Avg/Sec: 4.2 Max/Sec: 21 Total: 11,125 C2 Avg/Sec: 0 Max/Sec: 1 Total: 3 --Taiyo Yuden-- C1 Avg/Sec: 2 Max/Sec: 31 Total: 5328 C2 Avg/Sec: 0 Max/Sec: 13 Total: 41 --Fuji-- C1 Avg/Sec: 4.4 Max/Sec: 43 Total: 11,808 C2 N/A --Phillips-- C1 Avg/Sec: 4.1 Max/Sec: 24 Total: 10,932 C2 N/A I have a couple of questions based on these results. First, I thought C2 errors mainly came about from environmental factors: fingerprints, scratches, etc. If I am getting them from a brand new disc, is there something defective on the surface of the media? I looked at the bottom of the media and all of them were smudge and defect free (at least visible to the naked eye). Secondly, based on these results, which media would you use? Actually, I should probably run more tests to make a final conclusion. All of them show an average/sec of C1 errors under 6, which I've heard is excellent. The Taiyo Yuden had significantly lower number of C1 errors and the lowest average per second. Yet, this media also had the highest number of C2 errors. I know both C1 and C2 errors are correctable, and as a result, all of these discs are fine, but I am curious as to your thoughts as to results you are getting with the media you use. |
#2
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No C2 errors are acceptable, C1 rates are not very significant.
If you see C2, it's generally due to poor burn/disc quality or excessive burn speed, or both. C2 errors are correctable only to a point. Personally, I wouldn't trust any disc that has C2 errors. "Kevin McDonough" wrote in message om... I've been working with a friend to find out the CDR media that work best with his Marantz CDR-510 Professional. I've got a Plextor Premium drive and compared the C1/C2 error rates of the copies he made of Pancho Sanchez's albumn, Papa Gato. We used four types of CDR media, Fuji, Taiyo Yuden, TDK, and Phillips. The TDK and Phillips media are audio CDs. I ran a C1/C2/CU test on all of these including the original. The results are as follows: --Original, pressed CD-- C1 Avg/Sec: 2.9 Max/Sec: 37 Total: 7,700 C2 N/A --TDK-- C1 Avg/Sec: 4.2 Max/Sec: 21 Total: 11,125 C2 Avg/Sec: 0 Max/Sec: 1 Total: 3 --Taiyo Yuden-- C1 Avg/Sec: 2 Max/Sec: 31 Total: 5328 C2 Avg/Sec: 0 Max/Sec: 13 Total: 41 --Fuji-- C1 Avg/Sec: 4.4 Max/Sec: 43 Total: 11,808 C2 N/A --Phillips-- C1 Avg/Sec: 4.1 Max/Sec: 24 Total: 10,932 C2 N/A I have a couple of questions based on these results. First, I thought C2 errors mainly came about from environmental factors: fingerprints, scratches, etc. If I am getting them from a brand new disc, is there something defective on the surface of the media? I looked at the bottom of the media and all of them were smudge and defect free (at least visible to the naked eye). Secondly, based on these results, which media would you use? Actually, I should probably run more tests to make a final conclusion. All of them show an average/sec of C1 errors under 6, which I've heard is excellent. The Taiyo Yuden had significantly lower number of C1 errors and the lowest average per second. Yet, this media also had the highest number of C2 errors. I know both C1 and C2 errors are correctable, and as a result, all of these discs are fine, but I am curious as to your thoughts as to results you are getting with the media you use. |
#3
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I doubt my friends brand new professional grade CD burner is the
reason for the C2 errors, although I will acknowledge it is a possibility. Neither can high burn speed be a factor as this stand alone unit burning at 1x. So, based on your comments, the likely cause is defective media. Interesting. Any thoughts on whether it was a rare anomaly to get C2 errors on brand new discs by TDK and TY? I mean, how common is it to get C2 errors on media from these companies? "Dan G" wrote in message ... No C2 errors are acceptable, C1 rates are not very significant. If you see C2, it's generally due to poor burn/disc quality or excessive burn speed, or both. C2 errors are correctable only to a point. Personally, I wouldn't trust any disc that has C2 errors. |
#4
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What speed are the TYs and Fujis (which, if made in Japan, are also TYs)
rated for? If they are rated for high speed burns, whereas you're only burning at 1x, that may be why you're not getting great results with them. If you're limited to 1x, I'd stick with finding the best of the 'audio' brands. Of course, the above opinion is likely to change if a more knowledgable soul (e.g., Graham or Mike) says differently. ;-P ~lilbear In m, Kevin McDonough typed: I doubt my friends brand new professional grade CD burner is the reason for the C2 errors, although I will acknowledge it is a possibility. Neither can high burn speed be a factor as this stand alone unit burning at 1x. So, based on your comments, the likely cause is defective media. Interesting. Any thoughts on whether it was a rare anomaly to get C2 errors on brand new discs by TDK and TY? I mean, how common is it to get C2 errors on media from these companies? "Dan G" wrote in message ... No C2 errors are acceptable, C1 rates are not very significant. If you see C2, it's generally due to poor burn/disc quality or excessive burn speed, or both. C2 errors are correctable only to a point. Personally, I wouldn't trust any disc that has C2 errors. |
#5
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You're using media designed for high speed burning, not 1x rated media.
Neither TDK or Fuji makes CDR's for sale in the USA, they are made by other companies, and can be several different things. TY media will deliver highest quality in most burners when burned between 24x and 40x, often error rates will be higher below 24x burn speed. "Kevin McDonough" wrote in message m... I doubt my friends brand new professional grade CD burner is the reason for the C2 errors, although I will acknowledge it is a possibility. Neither can high burn speed be a factor as this stand alone unit burning at 1x. So, based on your comments, the likely cause is defective media. Interesting. Any thoughts on whether it was a rare anomaly to get C2 errors on brand new discs by TDK and TY? I mean, how common is it to get C2 errors on media from these companies? "Dan G" wrote in message ... No C2 errors are acceptable, C1 rates are not very significant. If you see C2, it's generally due to poor burn/disc quality or excessive burn speed, or both. C2 errors are correctable only to a point. Personally, I wouldn't trust any disc that has C2 errors. |
#6
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This is essentially correct - standalone players usually burn at 1X, and
this requires disc formulations intended to burn at such a low speed. As PC burners have become faster the formulations of the discs available have changed to accommodate the higher speeds at the expense of the lower speeds. Sometimes these newer formulations have found their way into 'audio' spec discs, but should not have as 'audio' discs are specifically intended to be used with stand alone recorders and therefore should be capable of working at the low speed. There are suppliers of professional quality audio discs around eg HHB in the UK. Data discs - even if the writer can accommodate them - should not be used. -- Graham Mayor lilbear wrote: What speed are the TYs and Fujis (which, if made in Japan, are also TYs) rated for? If they are rated for high speed burns, whereas you're only burning at 1x, that may be why you're not getting great results with them. If you're limited to 1x, I'd stick with finding the best of the 'audio' brands. Of course, the above opinion is likely to change if a more knowledgable soul (e.g., Graham or Mike) says differently. ;-P ~lilbear In m, Kevin McDonough typed: I doubt my friends brand new professional grade CD burner is the reason for the C2 errors, although I will acknowledge it is a possibility. Neither can high burn speed be a factor as this stand alone unit burning at 1x. So, based on your comments, the likely cause is defective media. Interesting. Any thoughts on whether it was a rare anomaly to get C2 errors on brand new discs by TDK and TY? I mean, how common is it to get C2 errors on media from these companies? "Dan G" wrote in message ... No C2 errors are acceptable, C1 rates are not very significant. If you see C2, it's generally due to poor burn/disc quality or excessive burn speed, or both. C2 errors are correctable only to a point. Personally, I wouldn't trust any disc that has C2 errors. |
#7
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Just a side question, Dan...
I have Premium nad some 48x Plextor (TY) CDR's. Now, Plextor says that those are 52x compatible, but still PoweRec lowers speed just before the end of burning (when speed reaches about 50-50.5x). So, i guess they are not so "compatible" Second "problem" is that premium doesn't have 48x speed available, just 52x, 40x etc...So, i should burn at 40x...? Or just shut off PoweRec ? Dan G typed: You're using media designed for high speed burning, not 1x rated media. Neither TDK or Fuji makes CDR's for sale in the USA, they are made by other companies, and can be several different things. TY media will deliver highest quality in most burners when burned between 24x and 40x, often error rates will be higher below 24x burn speed. "Kevin McDonough" wrote in message m... I doubt my friends brand new professional grade CD burner is the reason for the C2 errors, although I will acknowledge it is a possibility. Neither can high burn speed be a factor as this stand alone unit burning at 1x. So, based on your comments, the likely cause is defective media. Interesting. Any thoughts on whether it was a rare anomaly to get C2 errors on brand new discs by TDK and TY? I mean, how common is it to get C2 errors on media from these companies? "Dan G" wrote in message ... No C2 errors are acceptable, C1 rates are not very significant. If you see C2, it's generally due to poor burn/disc quality or excessive burn speed, or both. C2 errors are correctable only to a point. Personally, I wouldn't trust any disc that has C2 errors. |
#8
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On a recorder like that which burns at 1X, using CD-R Audio media would
probably be best, even if it will burn regular data CDs, since CD-R Audio discs must be capable of burning at 1X, while many current data CDs are not designed to be written at speeds as slow as 1X with good results. -- Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada To email, remove "nospam" from Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/ "Kevin McDonough" wrote in message om... I've been working with a friend to find out the CDR media that work best with his Marantz CDR-510 Professional. I've got a Plextor Premium drive and compared the C1/C2 error rates of the copies he made of Pancho Sanchez's albumn, Papa Gato. We used four types of CDR media, Fuji, Taiyo Yuden, TDK, and Phillips. The TDK and Phillips media are audio CDs. I ran a C1/C2/CU test on all of these including the original. The results are as follows: --Original, pressed CD-- C1 Avg/Sec: 2.9 Max/Sec: 37 Total: 7,700 C2 N/A --TDK-- C1 Avg/Sec: 4.2 Max/Sec: 21 Total: 11,125 C2 Avg/Sec: 0 Max/Sec: 1 Total: 3 --Taiyo Yuden-- C1 Avg/Sec: 2 Max/Sec: 31 Total: 5328 C2 Avg/Sec: 0 Max/Sec: 13 Total: 41 --Fuji-- C1 Avg/Sec: 4.4 Max/Sec: 43 Total: 11,808 C2 N/A --Phillips-- C1 Avg/Sec: 4.1 Max/Sec: 24 Total: 10,932 C2 N/A I have a couple of questions based on these results. First, I thought C2 errors mainly came about from environmental factors: fingerprints, scratches, etc. If I am getting them from a brand new disc, is there something defective on the surface of the media? I looked at the bottom of the media and all of them were smudge and defect free (at least visible to the naked eye). Secondly, based on these results, which media would you use? Actually, I should probably run more tests to make a final conclusion. All of them show an average/sec of C1 errors under 6, which I've heard is excellent. The Taiyo Yuden had significantly lower number of C1 errors and the lowest average per second. Yet, this media also had the highest number of C2 errors. I know both C1 and C2 errors are correctable, and as a result, all of these discs are fine, but I am curious as to your thoughts as to results you are getting with the media you use. |
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