USB Extenders?

Anyone tried using low-cost USB extenders? They use Cat5 cable. I am
wondering if they could be used to place a webcam up high where a more
interesting view would be available.

Davej galt_57 hotmail.com wrote:

Anyone tried using low-cost USB extenders? They use Cat5 cable.
I am wondering if they could be used to place a webcam up high
where a more interesting view would be available.

Issues of extending cables include signal strength and noise. It
partly depends on your device and your USB ports. If it doesn't
work for your intended device, it might work for something else.

Davej wrote:
Anyone tried using low-cost USB extenders? They use Cat5 cable. I am
wondering if they could be used to place a webcam up high where a more
interesting view would be available.

Supporting USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 ?

If the former, I would think your webcam wouldn't work
very well.

Paul

In the last episode of
om, John Doe
said:

Davej galt_57 hotmail.com wrote:

Anyone tried using low-cost USB extenders? They use Cat5 cable.
I am wondering if they could be used to place a webcam up high
where a more interesting view would be available.

Issues of extending cables include signal strength and noise.

USB extenders or active repeaters largely solve the signal strength and
noise problems by appearing as hubs and regenerating the signal.

However, overall latency can still be a factor, not all devices will
function correctly with an extender.

Unfortunately the only way to know is to try it.

--
It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to
steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.

Davej wrote:
Anyone tried using low-cost USB extenders? They use Cat5 cable. I am
wondering if they could be used to place a webcam up high where a more
interesting view would be available.

This company makes and markets a family of such extenders and related
products with their tech and has a faq about their products and invites
questions about particular applications for the products they make.

http://www.icron.com/products/usb/faq.php We extend USB up to 10km
over fiber optic cabling with our USB extender products, and extend HD
video up to 500m over Cat 5 cable with our KVM products. also
Video, Audio, and USB 2.0 over one single cable
500 meter distance over Cat 5 cable (Fiber distances over inexpensive
Cat 5)
Uncompressed HD video and USB 2.0 over a single Cat 5 cable
LAN connectivity
Up to 1920 x 1200 video support


--
Mike Easter

DevilsPGD boogabooga crazyhat.net wrote:

John Doe jdoe usenetlove.invalid said:
Davej galt_57 hotmail.com wrote:

Anyone tried using low-cost USB extenders? They use Cat5
cable. I am wondering if they could be used to place a webcam
up high where a more interesting view would be available.

Issues of extending cables include signal strength and noise.

USB extenders or active repeaters largely solve the signal
strength and noise problems by appearing as hubs and
regenerating the signal.

I can't tell for sure, but I had the impression he was talking
about a simple unpowered extension cable.

What's the difference between your "extender" and your "active
repeater"? The only difference I can guess is that your "extender"
does not include a buffer. In that case, it would not regenerate
the signal.

Mike Easter wrote:
Davej wrote:
Anyone tried using low-cost USB extenders? They use Cat5 cable. I am
wondering if they could be used to place a webcam up high where a more
interesting view would be available.

This company makes and markets a family of such extenders and related
products with their tech and has a faq about their products and invites
questions about particular applications for the products they make.

http://www.icron.com/products/usb/faq.php We extend USB up to 10km
over fiber optic cabling with our USB extender products, and extend HD
video up to 500m over Cat 5 cable with our KVM products. also
Video, Audio, and USB 2.0 over one single cable
500 meter distance over Cat 5 cable (Fiber distances over inexpensive
Cat 5)
Uncompressed HD video and USB 2.0 over a single Cat 5 cable
LAN connectivity
Up to 1920 x 1200 video support



The icron usb-2.0-ranger-2212 is $366, and pumps power to the other end. 100 meter reach.

http://www.smartvm.com/icron-usb-2.0...0ft-p44319.htm

The icron rover-2650 is $110 and is USB 1.1.

http://www.l-com.com/productFamily.aspx?id=2183

There is a bit of a price difference to watch out for. If the price is
really cheap, it could be USB 1.1.

To pump 480 megabits per second through the Cat5, you probably wouldn't
want to do that on one pair of wires. GbE Ethernet, pumps more than that
through the wire, but uses 125MHz 5-level logic signals, carried on all
four wire pairs. It means GbE Ethernet tried to keep the spectral
content down, for reasons of crosstalk. (Crosstalk being an issue,
if multiple Cat5 cables are pressed together with nylon cable ties.)
Pushing 480 meg through a single pair, using ordinary logic levels,
would be more challenging. Doing it for USB 1.1, might not be nearly
as challenging.

It would be interesting to see whether the Cat5 wire in each case, is
specified to have all eight wires or not (to see whether they use all
wire pairs or not).

Paul

Paul wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Davej wrote:
Anyone tried using low-cost USB extenders? They use Cat5 cable. I am
wondering if they could be used to place a webcam up high where a more
interesting view would be available.

This company makes and markets a family of such extenders and related
products with their tech and has a faq about their products and
invites questions about particular applications for the products they
make.

http://www.icron.com/products/usb/faq.php We extend USB up to 10km
over fiber optic cabling with our USB extender products, and extend HD
video up to 500m over Cat 5 cable with our KVM products. also
Video, Audio, and USB 2.0 over one single cable
500 meter distance over Cat 5 cable (Fiber distances over
inexpensive Cat 5)
Uncompressed HD video and USB 2.0 over a single Cat 5 cable
LAN connectivity
Up to 1920 x 1200 video support



The icron usb-2.0-ranger-2212 is $366, and pumps power to the other end.
100 meter reach.

http://www.smartvm.com/icron-usb-2.0...0ft-p44319.htm


The icron rover-2650 is $110 and is USB 1.1.

http://www.l-com.com/productFamily.aspx?id=2183

There is a bit of a price difference to watch out for. If the price is
really cheap, it could be USB 1.1.

To pump 480 megabits per second through the Cat5, you probably wouldn't
want to do that on one pair of wires. GbE Ethernet, pumps more than that
through the wire, but uses 125MHz 5-level logic signals, carried on all
four wire pairs. It means GbE Ethernet tried to keep the spectral
content down, for reasons of crosstalk. (Crosstalk being an issue,
if multiple Cat5 cables are pressed together with nylon cable ties.)
Pushing 480 meg through a single pair, using ordinary logic levels,
would be more challenging. Doing it for USB 1.1, might not be nearly
as challenging.

It would be interesting to see whether the Cat5 wire in each case, is
specified to have all eight wires or not (to see whether they use all
wire pairs or not).

Paul

Interesting. I tried a search, to see if someone made a single chip
solution to do this. And the same company makes a chip.

http://www.icron.com/products/usb_new/extremeusb.php

MII or GMII for Cat 5 extension using standard Ethernet PHY devices

What that means is, their chip can be digital only, with no messy
analog to worry about, by using an Ethernet PHY to drive the cable.
So in fact, they have the ability to use regular Ethernet signal
levels (without the packets on the wire, being exactly Ethernet -
the packet format can be better suited to transporting USB). It
means this is a two chip solution, but the partitioning makes more sense.

USB --- converter_chip --- (MII interface) --- Ethernet_PHY_chip - xfrm - Cat5

By keeping standard Ethernet levels, it negates the need to worry about
what happens to the cable. And the transformer isolation used in Ethernet,
helps avoid dangerous ground differences. (If you're going to run the
Cat5 outdoors though, there is still lightning to worry about. For outdoors,
fiber at around $900 would be a better choice. And even then, you have to
worry about how the remote device gets power. If you need to plug in a wall
adapter, somewhere in your back yard, then the extension cord becomes a
lightning issue.)

Paul

On Feb 13, 11:20*am, Paul wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Davej wrote:
Anyone tried using low-cost USB extenders? They use Cat5 cable. I am
wondering if they could be used to place a webcam up high where a more
interesting view would be available.

This company makes and markets a family of such extenders and related
products with their tech and has a faq about their products and invites
questions about particular applications for the products they make.

http://www.icron.com/products/usb/faq.php* We extend USB up to 10km
over fiber optic cabling with our USB extender products, and extend HD
video up to 500m over Cat 5 cable with our KVM products. also
* Video, Audio, and USB 2.0 over one single cable
* 500 meter distance over Cat 5 cable (Fiber distances over inexpensive
Cat 5)
* Uncompressed HD video and USB 2.0 over a single Cat 5 cable
* LAN connectivity
* Up to 1920 x 1200 video support

The icron usb-2.0-ranger-2212 is $366, and pumps power to the other end. 100 meter reach.

http://www.smartvm.com/icron-usb-2.0...-extender-hub-...

The icron rover-2650 is $110 and is USB 1.1.

http://www.l-com.com/productFamily.aspx?id=2183

There is a bit of a price difference to watch out for. If the price is
really cheap, it could be USB 1.1.

To pump 480 megabits per second through the Cat5, you probably wouldn't
want to do that on one pair of wires. GbE Ethernet, pumps more than that
through the wire, but uses 125MHz 5-level logic signals, carried on all
four wire pairs. It means GbE Ethernet tried to keep the spectral
content down, for reasons of crosstalk. (Crosstalk being an issue,
if multiple Cat5 cables are pressed together with nylon cable ties.)
Pushing 480 meg through a single pair, using ordinary logic levels,
would be more challenging. Doing it for USB 1.1, might not be nearly
as challenging.

It would be interesting to see whether the Cat5 wire in each case, is
specified to have all eight wires or not (to see whether they use all
wire pairs or not).

* * Paul

Well, it is interesting that while I can google and find various
inexpensive products which claim to extend USB 2.0 it is much more
difficult to find such products on a respectable site such as NewEgg.
Here is one on amazon, and although it is not the extra-long Cat5
type, there are some positive reviews regarding use with some webcams.

http://www.amazon.com/PTC-Meters-Ext...ref=pd_vtp_e_5

Davej galt_57 hotmail.com wrote:

Well, it is interesting that while I can google and find various
inexpensive products which claim to extend USB 2.0 it is much
more difficult to find such products on a respectable site such
as NewEgg.

Really? Yeah, that is interesting and important.