How Move OS XP from Old to New HD?

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote in message
...

- Nehmo -
I temporarily put aside the drive replacement/addition
job until I can get the system running normally. I have
to limit changes, so I can figure out what's to blame.

- Rod Speed -
Yeah, thats the best approach, resolve the
instability problem before trying to clone the drive.

- Nehmo -
Somehow the system isn't turning off anymore.
I don't know what I did, if I did anything.

Most likely its just XP. It doesnt like the ACPI
setting being changed behind its back much.

Best to try a clean install of XP with the correct ACPI
setting but thats very dangerous with no real backups
and a system with a known stability problem. I'd normally
do a clean XP install on a spare hard drive in that situation
and see if that makes the stability problem go away.

Guess you could do that with the drive you want to clone to.

I posted in another NG http://www.ericseven.com?id=1332 , and
Rick \"Nutcase\" Rogers suggested the BIOS battery may be low. Could be.

I doubt it. Shouldnt produce those symptoms.

The cold might have had something to do with it too.

Yeah, thats possible if you have a hardware problem.

Anyway, power management seems to be working normally now,

And that sort of intermittent instability is
always a damned nuisance to resolve too.

and I'm ready to try installing the HD again.

Dont try anything dangerous to your
data given that you arent backed up.

- Nehmo -
I'll run my usual check-out stuff, and I'll try memtest86.
http://www.memtest86.com/ ; It can't hurt.

- Rod Speed -
Yep, that does eliminate one possibility if it finds no errors.

- Nehmo -
I downloaded that but it requires a floppy.
Believe it or not, I don't have one here.

I believe it. Many dont bother with them anymore.

There is also an ISO that you can burn a CD from,
but you obviously need a CD burner to do that.

I could get one, but I can't wait any longer. I ran the
Windows utility, Check Disk (C drive Properties Tools tab
Check Now button), and everything checked out okay.

That doesnt even check memory at all.

- Rod Speed -
I'd personally do something about that before doing anything
else. At least write the stuff thats irreplaceable to multiple
CDs, even if I had to run out and buy a burner to do that.

- Nehmo -
I realize caution advocates for a back
up, but that would be another delay.

Losing the irreplaceable data will be an even worse delay.

- Nehmo -
[when the computer was turning itself off
and the processor fan was still running]
I can't turn everything off and
on again by the front button;

- Rod Speed -
What have you told XP to do with
that button ? Thats in Power Options.

- Nehmo -
In Power Options Properties, I have it set to "Shut down".
It didn't have any effect when the system had that problem.

- Nehmo -
I've unplugged and re-plugged the ATA ribbon so many times
(I used long nose pliers) that the pieces of plastic _over_ the
end connectors have come off.

- Rod Speed -
Best to replace it.

- Nehmo -
I bought another $17 (counting tax) one at Office Max,
a Bellkin Ultra ATA Hard Drive Round Cable
http://www.ericseven.com?id=1333

Urk, I dont use round cables myself. They flout the ATA standard.

it has the nice feature of "Quick-pull tabs for separating
connector and drive" The old cable is probably still good though.

Maybe. Those ribbon cable connectors basically have
spikes that pierce the insulation and grip the conductor
and they dont necessarily keep doing that reliably
without the outside plastic bit on properly.

- Rod Speed -
Yeah, its certainly a more known quantity
since its been around for much longer.

- Nehmo -
I just installed Symantec Ghost Enterprise Edition.

- Rod Speed -
Its a bit of a handful. If you dont find it obvious to use, try Ghost 2003.

- Nehmo -
Correct, I didn't find Ghost Enterprise Edition obvious to use
(I thought it was the Ghost you everybody was talking about).

Nar most use whats usually called Ghost Personal or just Ghost 2003.

I have it installed all right, but it comes in five parts: AI Builder;
Ghost Explorer; Ghost boot Wizard; License Auditing Utility; and
Multicast Server. Ghost Boot Wizard seems to be the one I should
use, but Help doesn't really explain how to get a new HD bootable.

Yeah, the documentation is one of the worst around currently.

Ghost 2003 is much better, both with the user interface and the manual.

XXCLONE, on the other hand, is obvious
to use. A pity it didn't work completely.

Going to be interesting to see if that is just due to the system instability.

You can't have everything :-)

Why not ? If I dont get it, I'll chuck a tantrum until I get it |-)

I'm at this moment downloading a different Ghost program
via eMule CB3C9D282E4254E3C402A9FC57760BDE ;
it's titled Norton Ghost 2003. I hope it's the real thing.

Its also in SystemWorks Pro 2003. Got
to be Pro, its not in SystemWorks 2003.

- Nehmo -
and I'm ready to try installing the HD again.

- Rod Speed -
Dont try anything dangerous to your
data given that you arent backed up.

- Nehmo -
I just sent my Outlook contacts to the web space my ISP gives me. That's
somewhat of a precaution. I might start doing it regularly, maybe in a
form that's a bit encrypted.

- Nehmo -
I'll try memtest86.

- Rod Speed -
Yep, that does eliminate one possibility if it finds no errors.

- Nehmo -
I downloaded that but it requires a floppy.
Believe it or not, I don't have one here.

- Rod Speed -
I believe it. Many dont bother with them anymore.

There is also an ISO that you can burn a CD from,
but you obviously need a CD burner to do that.

- Nehmo -
I need to get one of those. I suppose that should be the next thing. I'd
like a DVD burner though. I'd have to get one that worked on this 533
system. Or maybe it's time to get a new mother board? I gotta do
something. The world is passing me by.

- Nehmo -
I ran the
Windows utility, Check Disk (C drive Properties Tools tab
Check Now button), and everything checked out okay.

- Rod Speed -
That doesnt even check memory at all.

- Nehmo -
I got a floppy and ran memtest-86, http://www.memtest86.com/ . I think
it just keeps making passes again and again. I ran it for almost two
hours. Everything at that point was okay. I believe it had already gone
through a complete cycle.

- Nehmo -
I bought another $17 (counting tax) one at Office Max,
a Bellkin Ultra ATA Hard Drive Round Cable
http://www.ericseven.com?id=1333

- Rod Speed -
Urk, I dont use round cables myself. They flout the ATA standard.

- Nehmo -
The package claimed round was an advantage, because of airflow. It also
glows in the dark when illuminated by a UV light. How could I pass that
up? Anyway, it's what I have. It was the only type of ATA cable
available at that Office Max.

- Nehmo -
Correct, I didn't find Ghost Enterprise Edition obvious to use
(I thought it was the Ghost you everybody was talking about).

Nar most use whats usually called Ghost Personal or just Ghost 2003.

- Nehmo -
I now have Norton Ghost 2003 v 2003.789 . It made me uninstall the
Enterprise version before it would install itself. The Copy I got didn't
even ask for a serial number. I registered with my real name and gave an
address and an e-address.

- Rod Speed -
Ghost 2003 is much better, both with the user interface and the
manual.

- Nehmo -
It seems all I need to do is .
Physically install the disk old=master & new=slave (jumper configuration
and position) on the same ATA cable
Format the new HD via right click on My Computer Manage etc.
Start Ghost 2003 Advanced Clone follow wizard
Shut down Change jumper so new=master configuration and change cable
position so that new=master, keep old HD unattached
Start and let the computer boot form the new disk
If everything works at this point, then
Shut down reattach old disk with slave jumper configuration and slave
position on cable.

That's my plan.

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote in message
...

I now have Norton Ghost 2003 v 2003.789 .

It seems all I need to do is .
Physically install the disk old=master & new=slave
(jumper configuration and position) on the same ATA cable

That stuff doesnt matter at all, any legal config
is fine, both with which drive is the master and
slave and both drives on different cables too.

Format the new HD via right click on My Computer Manage etc.

Thats not necessary either.

Start Ghost 2003 Advanced Clone follow wizard
Shut down Change jumper so new=master configuration and change
cable position so that new=master, keep old HD unattached

That very last is crucial.

Start and let the computer boot form the new disk

XP should notificy you about new hardware at this point,
the new hard drive, and ask to be allowed to reboot.

If everything works at this point, then
Shut down reattach old disk with slave jumper
configuration and slave position on cable.

That's my plan.

That'd normally work fine.

You have been dancing on those graves tho...

- Nehmo -
That's my plan.

- Rod Speed -
That'd normally work fine.

You have been dancing on those graves tho...

- Nehmo -
Now the drive doesn't show up at all. It doesn't show up in that BIOS
screen that pops up before Windows starts, and it doesn't show up
anywhere else either.
I tried replacing the new Belkin round cable with the Maxtor-provided
ATA cable, but still nothing.

Naturally, I made sure the cables were securely attached. I can feel the
motor running so it must be getting power.

The Maxtor literature says with certain BIOS types, you have to set it
to highlight the IDE/HDD hard drives options and press Enter. I don't
see such an option in my BIOS, and anyway, I didn't need to do that the
other times I installed this drive.

Other than not recognizing the new HD, the computer is working fine.

Right now, I'm thinking I should take it back to Best Buy and replace it
with a different brand. It's still under 14 days.


--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote in message
news
That's my plan.

That'd normally work fine.

You have been dancing on those graves tho...

Now the drive doesn't show up at all. It doesn't show up
in that BIOS screen that pops up before Windows starts,
and it doesn't show up anywhere else either.

I tried replacing the new Belkin round cable with
the Maxtor-provided ATA cable, but still nothing.

That'd normally be due to either the jumpering being
wrong or no AUTO drive type in the cmos drive table.

The new cable should be a cable select cable,
so just jumper the drives as cable select and
make sure you do have the motherboard end of
the cable plugged into the motherboard connector.

Naturally, I made sure the cables were securely attached.
I can feel the motor running so it must be getting power.

The Maxtor literature says with certain BIOS types, you have
to set it to highlight the IDE/HDD hard drives options and press
Enter. I don't see such an option in my BIOS, and anyway,
I didn't need to do that the other times I installed this drive.

Yeah, the Maxtor documentation does leave quite a bit to be desired.

Other than not recognizing the new HD, the computer is working fine.

Right now, I'm thinking I should take it back to Best Buy
and replace it with a different brand. It's still under 14 days.

It cant be the cable, you're getting the
same effect with two different cables.

- Nehmo -
Now the drive doesn't show up at all. It doesn't show up
in that BIOS screen that pops up before Windows starts,
and it doesn't show up anywhere else either.

- Rod Speed -
That'd normally be due to either the jumpering being
wrong or no AUTO drive type in the cmos drive table.

The new cable should be a cable select cable,
so just jumper the drives as cable select and
make sure you do have the motherboard end of
the cable plugged into the motherboard connector.

- Nehmo -
I took the Maxtor drive back to Best Buy, and with an additional $10, I
replaced it with a Seagate ST380013A-RK, which is also an 80GB but has
larger, 8 MB, cache (rather than the 5 MB of the Maxtor).

DiscWizard is Seagate's copying program.

I followed instructions. They tell you to reconfigure the jumpers and
positions of the drives on the cable, after DiscWizard has copied the
old disk to the new.

http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/di...se_dw2002.html

"As the Boot drive keeping the old drive in the system
....
2. DiscWizard will now partition, format, and copy all your files from
the old drive to the new one. Additionally a Custom Installation Manual
will be created.
3. DiscWizard will give you an opportunity to print the manual on the
next screen. This manual contains detailed instructions on how to make
the new drive the master and the old drive the slave, follow them
closely. Make your selection and click next to proceed.
4. DiscWizard will now turn off your computer. Make the changes outlined
in the Custom Installation Manual and restart your computer.
5. Your computer will now boot to the new drive. Both drives are ready
for use. "

When I get to step 5, starting up again, I get, "Error loading OS".
I don't see a place in the BIOS to identify where the OS is.
I tried booting with only the new connected (I neglected to do this on
the first boot, but the instructions don't direct you to do that), but
the OS still didn't load. I now have retuned the jumpers cable positions
back to...
Old=master primary
New=salve, secondary
The computer works this way, but the OS is still coming from the old
drive. I sent Seagate an email.

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote:
When I get to step 5, starting up again, I get, "Error loading OS".
I don't see a place in the BIOS to identify where the OS is.
I tried booting with only the new connected (I neglected to do this on
the first boot, but the instructions don't direct you to do that), but
the OS still didn't load. I now have retuned the jumpers cable positions
back to...
Old=master primary
New=salve, secondary
The computer works this way, but the OS is still coming from the old
drive. I sent Seagate an email.


The instructions by Seagate were probably written before
Windows XP was around. All you can do now (easily, that is)
is to delete the new partition and do the cloning again, but
shut down and disconnect the old hard drive before booting
up with the new copy. As our beloved R. Speed said, that
hiding of the old OS is *crucial*.

As for changing around the jumpers - that may not really be
necessary unless you move the new HD to the end of the cable
and remove the old HD. With Windows XP, if you re-connect
the old HD, the OS will detect the other OS at some point and
exercise its multi-boot capability, giving you the option of choosing
the old OS or the new OS to boot up each boot time. You can
either use this feature or you can adjust the OS names list in the
OS's boot.ini files (making 2 single-boot systems) and select the
OS to boot by changing the boot sequence list in the BIOS. If you
choose the multi-boot feature, it helps to change the OS names in
the boot.ini files to something like "WinXP old" and WinXP new"
to help you in selecting the right OS to boot up. It also helps to put
a folder on the desktop having a name which indicates which OS is
running or to select a desktop background to indicate that.
Otherwise, you can just delete the partition(s) on the old HD, create
new partition(s), format, and use the old HD as extra storage space.

*TimDaniels*

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message ...
- Nehmo -
Now the drive doesn't show up at all. It doesn't show up
in that BIOS screen that pops up before Windows starts,
and it doesn't show up anywhere else either.

- Rod Speed -
That'd normally be due to either the jumpering being
wrong or no AUTO drive type in the cmos drive table.

The new cable should be a cable select cable,
so just jumper the drives as cable select and
make sure you do have the motherboard end of
the cable plugged into the motherboard connector.

- Nehmo -
I took the Maxtor drive back to Best Buy, and with an additional $10, I
replaced it with a Seagate ST380013A-RK, which is also an 80GB but has
larger, 8 MB, cache (rather than the 5 MB of the Maxtor).

DiscWizard is Seagate's copying program.

No point in bothering with that now that you have ghost 2003

I followed instructions. They tell you to reconfigure the jumpers and
positions of the drives on the cable, after DiscWizard has copied the
old disk to the new.

http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/di...se_dw2002.html

"As the Boot drive keeping the old drive in the system
...
2. DiscWizard will now partition, format, and copy all your files from
the old drive to the new one. Additionally a Custom Installation Manual
will be created.
3. DiscWizard will give you an opportunity to print the manual on the
next screen. This manual contains detailed instructions on how to make
the new drive the master and the old drive the slave, follow them
closely. Make your selection and click next to proceed.
4. DiscWizard will now turn off your computer. Make the changes outlined
in the Custom Installation Manual and restart your computer.
5. Your computer will now boot to the new drive. Both drives are ready
for use. "

When I get to step 5, starting up again, I get, "Error loading OS".
I don't see a place in the BIOS to identify where the OS is.
I tried booting with only the new connected (I neglected to do this on
the first boot, but the instructions don't direct you to do that), but
the OS still didn't load. I now have retuned the jumpers cable positions
back to...
Old=master primary
New=salve, secondary
The computer works this way, but the OS is still coming from the old
drive. I sent Seagate an email.

Start again using ghost 2003

"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message ...

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote:
When I get to step 5, starting up again, I get, "Error loading OS".
I don't see a place in the BIOS to identify where the OS is.
I tried booting with only the new connected (I neglected to do this on
the first boot, but the instructions don't direct you to do that), but
the OS still didn't load. I now have retuned the jumpers cable positions
back to...
Old=master primary
New=salve, secondary
The computer works this way, but the OS is still coming from the old
drive. I sent Seagate an email.


The instructions by Seagate were probably written before
Windows XP was around. All you can do now (easily, that is)
is to delete the new partition and do the cloning again, but
shut down and disconnect the old hard drive before booting
up with the new copy. As our beloved R. Speed said, that
hiding of the old OS is *crucial*.

Different symptoms tho. If you dont do that, it should boot fine,
and only have a problem when the old drive is disconnected
because the boot will use stuff off both drives.

As for changing around the jumpers - that may not
really be necessary unless you move the new HD
to the end of the cable and remove the old HD.

Thats comprehensively mangled too. You can EITHER
use master/slave jumpers in which case the connector
used is irrelevant, OR you can jumper the drives for
cable select, use a cable select cable, which any new
cable 80 conductor cable should be, and THEN the drive
priority is determined by the connector its plugged into.

With Windows XP, if you re-connect the old HD, the OS
will detect the other OS at some point and exercise its
multi-boot capability, giving you the option of choosing
the old OS or the new OS to boot up each boot time.

Thats utterly mangled in spades. It wont automatically
setup an auto boot config if you say install XP on a
drive, and then plug in say a bootable SE drive. You
have to have the SE drive visible at install time for
XP to automatically include the multiboot capabilty.

There isnt any easy way to add multiboot capability
later, after the install. It can be done, but not auto.

And XP wont automatically setup multiboots between
a number of XP installs on different drives either.

You can either use this feature

There is no such 'feature'

or you can adjust the OS names list in the OS's boot.ini
files (making 2 single-boot systems) and select the OS
to boot by changing the boot sequence list in the BIOS.

And you can tell XP to scan for other installed OSs and setup
a multiboot for that, but not between multiple installs of XP.

If you choose the multi-boot feature, it helps to change the
OS names in the boot.ini files to something like "WinXP old"
and WinXP new" to help you in selecting the right OS to boot up.

And a multiboot config with multiple XP boots has to be setup manually
by manually edititing boot.ini anyway, quite apart from the naming.

It also helps to put a folder on the desktop having
a name which indicates which OS is running or to
select a desktop background to indicate that.

And he doesnt even want multibooting between XP installs anyway.

Otherwise, you can just delete the partition(s) on the old HD, create
new partition(s), format, and use the old HD as extra storage space.

- Nehmo -
DiscWizard is Seagate's copying program.

- Rod Speed -
No point in bothering with that now that you have ghost 2003
Start again using ghost 2003

- Nehmo -
I was eager to get things going, and the Seagate product literature,
being much better laid out than Maxtor's, was convincing. The user
interface on Seagate's software, DiscWizard, looks more professional
than that of MaxBlast too.

Anyway, Seagate's Ultra ATA/100 Quick Installation guide (which mentions
Windows XP, so it must have been written after the OS came out), in the
section 2A third bullet
".I want to make my new Seagate drive the boot drive (master). For this
option see 'Before You Begin' to use Disc Wizard to install your drive
and convert it to a boot drive. "
'Before You Begin' explains how to install DiscWizard.
DiscWizard takes you through copying the old HD to the New. The
implication is that you are to set the jumpers as indicated in 3, which
is new=slave and old=master. The cable connecting section says slave
goes into the secondary (middle gray) connector and the master goes into
the primary (end, black) connector.
This leads to "7E: Make your new drive the boot drive (optional).b)
reconfigure the drives.. 2) change the jumpers to configure your new
Seagate drive as the master and your old drive as the slave.4)Your
computer recognizes and boots from your new hard drive..If necessary,
see step 6C for BIOS/CMOS setup instructions." Those instructions deal
with if the BIOS doesn't detect the drives, but mine detects the drives
all right, it just can load the OS from the new drive.

This is all the info I have on my BIOS. I got it from running SiSoftware
Sandra http://www.sisoftware.net/ :

General Information
Manufacturer : Phoenix Technologies LTD
Version : Version 1.01
Date : 02/24/2000
Plug & Play Version : 1.00
SMBIOS/DMI Version : 2.30
(EE)PROM Size : 256kB (2Mbit)

General Capabilities
Can be Updated/Flashed : Yes
Can be Shadowed : Yes
Is Socketed : No
Supports Plug & Play : Yes
Supports ESCD : Yes
Supports Enhanced Disk Drive : Yes
NEC PC-98 Spec Compatible : No

Power Management Features
Supports APM : Yes
Supports ACPI : Yes
Supports Smart Battery : No

Boot Features
Supports Selective Booting : Yes
Supports CD/DVD Boot : Yes
Supports PCMCIA/CardBus Boot : No
Supports LS-120 Boot : Yes
Supports ZIP Boot : Yes
Supports i2o Boot : No
Supports FireWire/1394 Boot : No
Supports BIOS Boot Block : Yes
Supports Interactive Network Boot : No


This time I'm trying Ghost 2003. I currently have
Old=master & at primary position on cable
New=slave & at secondary position on cable

So after I use Ghost, should I change the jumpers and the cable position
to the opposite of the above? Should I try cable select on both of them
this time?


--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************