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#11
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Was it a USB mouse, PS/2-style, serial, or one of the original Microsoft bus
mice with a special card? ... Ben Myers On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:01:51 -0400, "news" wrote: what did you do with the mouse? "w_tom" wrote in message ... Compressed air can even change critical dip switch settings. Never use compressed air on electronics. In on case, a user vacuumed the computer and therefore removed a jumper setting. Computer would not operate. At most, gently vacuum or blow dust off of ventilation holes. Nothing more. If a dust problem is that large, then either an industrial grade computer for a harsh environment is required, or some silly person installed too many fans. Five fans inside a case does create dust problems especially since most every computer works just fine with only one 80mm fan. Why did power supply die? Air that is exhausted from computer must not be air that reenters computer. Ventilation is why holes must be properly cut in a cabinet that holds a computer - so that heat does not recycle. Computers must work just fine when room air is 100 degree F. A computer in a 70 degree room just will never have failures due to dust - if computer is properly designed and ventilated. Do not use compressed air on electronics. First it is not necessary. Second it can cause other failures. Too many have this 'clean' fetish. They always want to cure something only because it looks dirty. Short of large globs of dust on ventilation holes or large dust balls inside the case - removing dust is unnecessary. I only remove dust because I don't like getting my hands dirty if I happen to be inside the machine. Once even found a death mouse. But computer worked just fine. "A. & C. Bredt" wrote: I have it on a UPS, but I see that it is very dusty inside. How often would you use compressed air to clean it? Should I open it each time to do it? |
#12
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Do you clean a mouse with anything other than a finger
nail? Why? There is nothing in a mouse that needs compressed air or even a vacuum to clean out. Nothing. Just scrap away the hardened dirt where mouse ball hits roller. Or buy an optical mouse and clean nothing. Bottom line from one who worked where reliability had to be 100%. Never use compressed air to clean any electronics. This has been that well known for so many decades. Any properly trained repairman knows - never use compressed air. Unfortunately, too many computer 'experts' today never have such education or real world experience. Instead they have learned like too many auto mechanics have learned. Hearsay. Do the numbers - something little understood by computer people. Blowing out the dust makes an improvement so trivial as to be irrelevant. How many degrees cooler is that computer? If not at least 10 degrees C, then it really does not matter. Margin of error in the design makes all that cleaning irrelevant. Then we get to why people clean. Less heat means longer life. Yes. And when we apply numbers, that increased life expectancy is near zero. In fact the compressed air is more likely to reduce life expectancy than the dust. As long as the ventilation holes are clear, then the computer has more than sufficient cooling. No dust nor a cabinet should block those cooling holes. Clean dust only when it is convenient - and never use compressed air. Better to leave a coating (not to be confused with globs) of dust inside. Dust coating does not adversely effect anything - except those with a cleaning fetish. news wrote: what did you do with the mouse? |
#13
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Keep up.
"w_tom" wrote in message ... Do you clean a mouse with anything other than a finger nail? Why? There is nothing in a mouse that needs compressed air or even a vacuum to clean out. Nothing. Just scrap away the hardened dirt where mouse ball hits roller. Or buy an optical mouse and clean nothing. Bottom line from one who worked where reliability had to be 100%. Never use compressed air to clean any electronics. This has been that well known for so many decades. Any properly trained repairman knows - never use compressed air. Unfortunately, too many computer 'experts' today never have such education or real world experience. Instead they have learned like too many auto mechanics have learned. Hearsay. Do the numbers - something little understood by computer people. Blowing out the dust makes an improvement so trivial as to be irrelevant. How many degrees cooler is that computer? If not at least 10 degrees C, then it really does not matter. Margin of error in the design makes all that cleaning irrelevant. Then we get to why people clean. Less heat means longer life. Yes. And when we apply numbers, that increased life expectancy is near zero. In fact the compressed air is more likely to reduce life expectancy than the dust. As long as the ventilation holes are clear, then the computer has more than sufficient cooling. No dust nor a cabinet should block those cooling holes. Clean dust only when it is convenient - and never use compressed air. Better to leave a coating (not to be confused with globs) of dust inside. Dust coating does not adversely effect anything - except those with a cleaning fetish. news wrote: what did you do with the mouse? |
#14
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Let me know when the dust and dirt in your computer builds up enough to cause a
critical fan to stop spinning, with one or more components burning up as a result... Ben Myers On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:50:38 -0400, w_tom wrote: Do you clean a mouse with anything other than a finger nail? Why? There is nothing in a mouse that needs compressed air or even a vacuum to clean out. Nothing. Just scrap away the hardened dirt where mouse ball hits roller. Or buy an optical mouse and clean nothing. Bottom line from one who worked where reliability had to be 100%. Never use compressed air to clean any electronics. This has been that well known for so many decades. Any properly trained repairman knows - never use compressed air. Unfortunately, too many computer 'experts' today never have such education or real world experience. Instead they have learned like too many auto mechanics have learned. Hearsay. Do the numbers - something little understood by computer people. Blowing out the dust makes an improvement so trivial as to be irrelevant. How many degrees cooler is that computer? If not at least 10 degrees C, then it really does not matter. Margin of error in the design makes all that cleaning irrelevant. Then we get to why people clean. Less heat means longer life. Yes. And when we apply numbers, that increased life expectancy is near zero. In fact the compressed air is more likely to reduce life expectancy than the dust. As long as the ventilation holes are clear, then the computer has more than sufficient cooling. No dust nor a cabinet should block those cooling holes. Clean dust only when it is convenient - and never use compressed air. Better to leave a coating (not to be confused with globs) of dust inside. Dust coating does not adversely effect anything - except those with a cleaning fetish. news wrote: what did you do with the mouse? |
#15
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I have seen components compromised by small amounts dust particles.
Some dust particles are conductive to some extent and as you know it does not always take much to damage electronics. Periodically blowing out a computer is potentially a very good thing and recommended. As long as you focus on just the dust-heat issue, you miss many other possibilities. More advanced technology requires we think outside of very narrow terms as a problem such as dust has the potential to cause other issues than just overheating. So while you suggest not blowing out because there is negligible temperature improvement, I suggest blowing out the dust to improve air circulation as well as remove potentially damaging contaminants. -- Jupiter Jones http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/ "w_tom" wrote in message ... Compressed air can even change critical dip switch settings. Never use compressed air on electronics. In on case, a user vacuumed the computer and therefore removed a jumper setting. Computer would not operate. At most, gently vacuum or blow dust off of ventilation holes. Nothing more. If a dust problem is that large, then either an industrial grade computer for a harsh environment is required, or some silly person installed too many fans. Five fans inside a case does create dust problems especially since most every computer works just fine with only one 80mm fan. Why did power supply die? Air that is exhausted from computer must not be air that reenters computer. Ventilation is why holes must be properly cut in a cabinet that holds a computer - so that heat does not recycle. Computers must work just fine when room air is 100 degree F. A computer in a 70 degree room just will never have failures due to dust - if computer is properly designed and ventilated. Do not use compressed air on electronics. First it is not necessary. Second it can cause other failures. Too many have this 'clean' fetish. They always want to cure something only because it looks dirty. Short of large globs of dust on ventilation holes or large dust balls inside the case - removing dust is unnecessary. I only remove dust because I don't like getting my hands dirty if I happen to be inside the machine. Once even found a death mouse. But computer worked just fine. |
#16
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If you remove all the jumpers (hint:they are about a dollar for 100,
buy a bag full...)and loose items you may vacuum away. Provided you do not have an ESD issue. Static discharges are the main cause of component failures on motherboards. Only vacuum with the humidity over 40%, and the vacuum cleaner, the computer chassis,the technician, and the hose and nozzle must all be grounded. The computer should be hooked to ground through its power cord (or use a jumper) and the hose/nozzle must be a conductive ESD type. They are conductors, but not good ones: they have a designed high resistance that lets static charges bleed off rather than arc. A "toner vac" is ideal, but expensive. The Kirby will work, use the ESD wand and brush from the toner vac-available separately. Ground the Kirby case with a jumper. A conductive brush-again, not metal, but designated ESD safe-wielded by a tech who is properly grounded-through a 10-megohm resistor, as are used in commercial ESD leashes-is probably better. If the humidity is low, _lightly_ splash water around on the carpet first. Wipe the case with a slightly damp rag. No puddles, a little damp. Let thoroughly dry before plugging in. You can spray the carpet with a little diluted Downy, but don't get it on the machine anywhere. Only Downy has the high dollar anti-static ingredient in $100/gallon ESD spray used in all ISO-9000 electronics plants (as far as I know). Sta-Puf and Suavitel don't. |
#17
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You already have the list of every time dust has caused
failures - including computers before PC existed. Dust problems are myths often associated with a tech who is 'reaching' to solve a problem he never understood. Fans don't fail due to dust. They fail due to internal failures such as seized bearing, misplaced rotation sensor, or failed transistor. Been doing this for too many decades to fall for the 'too much dust' myth. No reason to use compressed air on electronics. Dust may create a marginal problem if ventilation holes are obstructed and computer operates in a 100 degree F room. Even a soft paint brush solves that problem. Ben Myers wrote: Let me know when the dust and dirt in your computer builds up enough to cause a critical fan to stop spinning, with one or more components burning up as a result... Ben Myers |
#18
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Well, you do it your way, I'll do it mine. Never the twain shall meet. Live
and let live. And I won't take your remarks personally... Ben Myers On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:13:26 -0400, w_tom wrote: You already have the list of every time dust has caused failures - including computers before PC existed. Dust problems are myths often associated with a tech who is 'reaching' to solve a problem he never understood. Fans don't fail due to dust. They fail due to internal failures such as seized bearing, misplaced rotation sensor, or failed transistor. Been doing this for too many decades to fall for the 'too much dust' myth. No reason to use compressed air on electronics. Dust may create a marginal problem if ventilation holes are obstructed and computer operates in a 100 degree F room. Even a soft paint brush solves that problem. Ben Myers wrote: Let me know when the dust and dirt in your computer builds up enough to cause a critical fan to stop spinning, with one or more components burning up as a result... Ben Myers |
#19
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Jim;
If you are pulling jumpers off with a vacuum, you already have at least one of the below issues: 1. Too powerful a vacuum for the job. 2. Jumpers way to loose...will eventually be a problem otherwise. The point of my post is cooling issues caused by dust is only one issue. If the focus is that narrow, other issues may result because of ignorance. I was not addressing ESD because that is beyond the scope of this thread. -- Jupiter Jones Check the following link for some great problem solving newsgroups. http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/ "Jim-Ed Browne" wrote in message om... If you remove all the jumpers (hint:they are about a dollar for 100, buy a bag full...)and loose items you may vacuum away. Provided you do not have an ESD issue. Static discharges are the main cause of component failures on motherboards. Only vacuum with the humidity over 40%, and the vacuum cleaner, the computer chassis,the technician, and the hose and nozzle must all be grounded. The computer should be hooked to ground through its power cord (or use a jumper) and the hose/nozzle must be a conductive ESD type. They are conductors, but not good ones: they have a designed high resistance that lets static charges bleed off rather than arc. A "toner vac" is ideal, but expensive. The Kirby will work, use the ESD wand and brush from the toner vac-available separately. Ground the Kirby case with a jumper. A conductive brush-again, not metal, but designated ESD safe-wielded by a tech who is properly grounded-through a 10-megohm resistor, as are used in commercial ESD leashes-is probably better. If the humidity is low, _lightly_ splash water around on the carpet first. Wipe the case with a slightly damp rag. No puddles, a little damp. Let thoroughly dry before plugging in. You can spray the carpet with a little diluted Downy, but don't get it on the machine anywhere. Only Downy has the high dollar anti-static ingredient in $100/gallon ESD spray used in all ISO-9000 electronics plants (as far as I know). Sta-Puf and Suavitel don't. |
#20
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Do you think he was talking about the industrial-type compressed air that
contains oil/water? I can see how that might be bad for electronics. The junk in the can you buy at Staples is probably OK. ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message ... Hmm. Never ever had a problem with a computer getting into difficulty as a result of my blasting it out with compressed air. Must be either dumb luck or highly refined technique. Several dealers and resellers in my neighborhood with whom I have a loose arrangement to exchange parts and repair/maintenance have never had a problem either. Admittedly a computer CAN survive with a lot of dust, dirt, dead mice, and animal hair inside it. But the chances of survival are generally better if the interior is somewhat clean, allowing clear and unimpeded air flow. I've also serviced a proprietary computer (a custom printer RIP) never ever cleaned by the so-called maintenance person. Opened up the chassis and found a ball about the side of a baseball consisting of cat hair, paper chaff, dust, dirt, and heaven knows what else. And that computer had a failed power supply. Luckily for my client, a common personal computer power supply fit right in, so there was no need for a service call from the other guy using parts paid via extortion. Factory environments are especially hard on personal computers, and some regular cleaning out of the dirt prolongs the life of the machine. That's my opinion, and you are just as free to have yours... Ben Myers On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:03:21 -0400, w_tom wrote: Compressed air can even change critical dip switch settings. Never use compressed air on electronics. In on case, a user vacuumed the computer and therefore removed a jumper setting. Computer would not operate. At most, gently vacuum or blow dust off of ventilation holes. Nothing more. If a dust problem is that large, then either an industrial grade computer for a harsh environment is required, or some silly person installed too many fans. Five fans inside a case does create dust problems especially since most every computer works just fine with only one 80mm fan. Why did power supply die? Air that is exhausted from computer must not be air that reenters computer. Ventilation is why holes must be properly cut in a cabinet that holds a computer - so that heat does not recycle. Computers must work just fine when room air is 100 degree F. A computer in a 70 degree room just will never have failures due to dust - if computer is properly designed and ventilated. Do not use compressed air on electronics. First it is not necessary. Second it can cause other failures. Too many have this 'clean' fetish. They always want to cure something only because it looks dirty. Short of large globs of dust on ventilation holes or large dust balls inside the case - removing dust is unnecessary. I only remove dust because I don't like getting my hands dirty if I happen to be inside the machine. Once even found a death mouse. But computer worked just fine. "A. & C. Bredt" wrote: I have it on a UPS, but I see that it is very dusty inside. How often would you use compressed air to clean it? Should I open it each time to do it? |
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