If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Don,
The voltages for the various components (RAM, CPU and etc.) are = controlled by voltage regulators on the motherboard. Granted, it could = be a different component that is having issues, and causing a voltage = drop across the entire system. It could also simply be the voltage = regulator that supplies the CPU Core Voltage failing due to age. =20 Try removing all add-on cards, and anything but your primary hard disk = (you will need to leave the video card in) and retest the system. If = the voltage is normal, then add the hardware back one piece at a time = until you see the voltage drop. If you still get the voltage = difference, even with all extra hardware removed, then you're most = likely looking at a motherboard replacement. --=20 Doug Knox, MS-MVP Windows XP/ Windows Smart Display Win 95/98/Me/XP Tweaks and Fixes http://www.dougknox.com -------------------------------- Per user Group Policy Restrictions for XP Home and XP Pro http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_securityconsole.htm -------------------------------- Please reply only to the newsgroup so all may benefit. Unsolicited e-mail is not answered. =20 "Don Cohen" wrote in message = ... Hi, =20 This is a fresh thread based on what was learned in a separate thread (Desperately Need Help - System Reboot/Crashes). =20 The tentative conclusion in the other thread is that my crashes are = being caused by hardware, and not software. In that regard, I have = installed and run AIDA32 Enterprise System Information. Here is the relevant = information: =20 My primary problem is random, sporadic crashes to a BSOD, starting = after almost 2 years of relatively glitch-free running, and *not* following = any significant hardware or software changes: =20 PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA ****STOP: 0x00000050 (0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000, 0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000) =20 Full details on this problem and prior trouble-shooting can be found = in the other thread. =20 Gateway 700XL, approximately 2 years old, XP Home, 1024 mb RAM Intel Pentium 4A, 2.2 GHz (5.5x400), Northwood A80532 CPU chip Intel D850MV (Maryville) Motherboard, i850 Chipset Brand new Antec 430W TruPower PSU (replacing the prior Gateway 250W = PSU, but not fixing the crashes) =20 AIDA32 shows the actual CPU Core Voltage for my system varying between = 1.43 and 1.45 Volts. AIDA32 also has a section showing the CPU Physical Properties. Here = it indicates: --Core Voltage 1.475V - 1.55V-- =20 Someone experiencing similar (but not identical) crashes as me found = his CPU Core Voltage to be the source of his problem, indicating his opinion = that voltage differences as small as 0.025V can be quite significant. If = true, then my CPU Core Voltage is out of the normal range. =20 My questions: =20 1. Is the difference between the apparent optimal range for Core = Voltage and my actual Core Voltage enough to explain these very random crashes? (I = can go a few minutes, a few hours, a few days between crashes). =20 2. Is there any way to adjust this voltage? I have not yet found any = BIOS or motherboard jumper settings that might do this. =20 3. If this is the source of the problem, do I replace the motherboard, = or the CPU? In other words, which hardware component is causing the low = CPU Core Voltage? =20 Anybody that can offer some knowledgeable advice here? It will be = very greatly appreciated. I have been fighting this problem for several = weeks now, and consumed untold hours trouble-shooting. =20 Thanks! =20 Don =20 |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
CS wrote:
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:11:11 -0500, "Don Cohen" wrote: Nothing like going crazy trying to track something like this down.... Boy, is that the truth. It has consumed an incredible amount of time and mental energy. From reading your posts and replies and what you've already done to trouble shoot the problem, I believe it is very definitely a hardware issue. I appreciate the confirmation. That seems like the only logical conclusion, but we all know how strange the truth can be at times... I would suggest you not spend any more money on diagnostic programs or the like. Of course a free one is always great to have. I'm not sure I really trust AIDA32 to accurately monitor CPU voltages. The best free application that I know of to do that is called "Motherboard Monitor". You might wish to download and give it a try. Also, go to the CPU makers web site and get the specs for your CPU. Both Intel and AMD have spec sheets available which give the voltage and temperature ranges for the CPUs they manufacture. OK, I've downloaded and installed Motherboard Monitor. Definitely more complex than AIDA32 to setup. But I think I have it now. It shows Core Temp for CPU varying between 1.46V and 1.49V. I checked Intel's site, found my chip (SL66S) and it shows the spec for Core Voltage as 1.500V. So according to MbMonitor my core voltage is still on the low side, but how significant this 0.1 to 0.4 volts is, I don't know. NOT 0.1 - 0.4 volts, but 0.01 - 0.04 volts. And the DA converters that MbMontior and AIDA32 are reading generally don't have that degree of accuracy. Accuracy would something like 1.46V to 1.49V plus or minus 0.1V at best. If you want some what accurate measurements, test with a digital multi-meter at the ATX power connector. You cannot test the core voltage directly at that connector, but the core voltage is derived from the +3.3 volt line. You'd need special ($$$) equipment to accurately measure core voltage. Regarding additional diagnostic programs - I'd rather not buy more as well, but at this point, I still don't have an answer as to what hardware is faulty, and what to replace... You may indeed have a bad motherboard or at least an intermittent failing component on the board. It may even be memory related. I don't recall you saying you swapped out the memory modules? Also, go into your CMOS setup program and make sure all the settings for memory are within specs. (CAS, RAS, etc) His Gateway motherboard is somewhat lacking in the bios configuration department. I haven't done anything yet with the actual (4) memory modules. Memtest86 ran for over 13 hours/7passes, with no errors detected. Your MB uses RDRAM which is used in pairs. Call the modules A1,A2 and B1,B2. Call the slots they are in 1,2,3 and 4. Swap A1,A2 from slots 1,2 to slots 3,4 and B1,B2 from slots 3,4 to slots 1,2. While you're swapping the sticks (especially if you or someone in your household is a smoker!), use SOFT (not for #1 pencil or ink) eraser to clean the contacts. Re-run Memtest86. If Memtest finds an error, replace the appropriate ram module(s). If no errors are found, run the computer normally to see if cleaning the contacts has fixed the intermitant spontaneous reboots. Bob |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Hi Doug,
Thanks for the reply and advice. I presume that you feel the voltage measurements are sufficiently accurate with "Motherboard Monitor" and/or AIDA32 to conclude that the VCore is genuinely lower than it should be? And if so, you also feel this small but significant difference could be creating the system instability? I will go ahead and give your plan a try tomorrow, and report back. Thanks much! Best regards, Don "Doug Knox MS-MVP" wrote in message ... Don, The voltages for the various components (RAM, CPU and etc.) are controlled by voltage regulators on the motherboard. Granted, it could be a different component that is having issues, and causing a voltage drop across the entire system. It could also simply be the voltage regulator that supplies the CPU Core Voltage failing due to age. Try removing all add-on cards, and anything but your primary hard disk (you will need to leave the video card in) and retest the system. If the voltage is normal, then add the hardware back one piece at a time until you see the voltage drop. If you still get the voltage difference, even with all extra hardware removed, then you're most likely looking at a motherboard replacement. -- Doug Knox, MS-MVP Windows XP/ Windows Smart Display Win 95/98/Me/XP Tweaks and Fixes http://www.dougknox.com -------------------------------- Per user Group Policy Restrictions for XP Home and XP Pro http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_securityconsole.htm -------------------------------- Please reply only to the newsgroup so all may benefit. Unsolicited e-mail is not answered. "Don Cohen" wrote in message ... Hi, This is a fresh thread based on what was learned in a separate thread (Desperately Need Help - System Reboot/Crashes). The tentative conclusion in the other thread is that my crashes are being caused by hardware, and not software. In that regard, I have installed and run AIDA32 Enterprise System Information. Here is the relevant information: My primary problem is random, sporadic crashes to a BSOD, starting after almost 2 years of relatively glitch-free running, and *not* following any significant hardware or software changes: PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA ****STOP: 0x00000050 (0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000, 0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000) Full details on this problem and prior trouble-shooting can be found in the other thread. Gateway 700XL, approximately 2 years old, XP Home, 1024 mb RAM Intel Pentium 4A, 2.2 GHz (5.5x400), Northwood A80532 CPU chip Intel D850MV (Maryville) Motherboard, i850 Chipset Brand new Antec 430W TruPower PSU (replacing the prior Gateway 250W PSU, but not fixing the crashes) AIDA32 shows the actual CPU Core Voltage for my system varying between 1.43 and 1.45 Volts. AIDA32 also has a section showing the CPU Physical Properties. Here it indicates: --Core Voltage 1.475V - 1.55V-- Someone experiencing similar (but not identical) crashes as me found his CPU Core Voltage to be the source of his problem, indicating his opinion that voltage differences as small as 0.025V can be quite significant. If true, then my CPU Core Voltage is out of the normal range. My questions: 1. Is the difference between the apparent optimal range for Core Voltage and my actual Core Voltage enough to explain these very random crashes? (I can go a few minutes, a few hours, a few days between crashes). 2. Is there any way to adjust this voltage? I have not yet found any BIOS or motherboard jumper settings that might do this. 3. If this is the source of the problem, do I replace the motherboard, or the CPU? In other words, which hardware component is causing the low CPU Core Voltage? Anybody that can offer some knowledgeable advice here? It will be very greatly appreciated. I have been fighting this problem for several weeks now, and consumed untold hours trouble-shooting. Thanks! Don |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Hi Bob,
NOT 0.1 - 0.4 volts, but 0.01 - 0.04 volts. And the DA converters that MbMontior and AIDA32 are reading generally don't have that degree of accuracy. Accuracy would something like 1.46V to 1.49V plus or minus 0.1V at best. If you want some what accurate measurements, test with a digital multi-meter at the ATX power connector. You cannot test the core voltage directly at that connector, but the core voltage is derived from the +3.3 volt line. You'd need special ($$$) equipment to accurately measure core voltage. A bit beyond my capabilities at the moment ;-) His Gateway motherboard is somewhat lacking in the bios configuration department. So I've found... Your MB uses RDRAM which is used in pairs. Call the modules A1,A2 and B1,B2. Call the slots they are in 1,2,3 and 4. Swap A1,A2 from slots 1,2 to slots 3,4 and B1,B2 from slots 3,4 to slots 1,2. While you're swapping the sticks (especially if you or someone in your household is a smoker!), use SOFT (not for #1 pencil or ink) eraser to clean the contacts. Re-run Memtest86. If Memtest finds an error, replace the appropriate ram module(s). If no errors are found, run the computer normally to see if cleaning the contacts has fixed the intermitant spontaneous reboots. Will do. Thanks! Don |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Sorry to but in on this fishing expedition but it seems to me the only thing common to all your events is the CD Rom you were using with the Windows disk. Try unplugging it and see if problems continue. A long shot I know but cheap to try. No problem - join the party! I'll add this to the list of things to try tomorrow. Hopefully I'll come up with the answer sooner or later! Don |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Your voltages seem to be right where they are suppose to be with the
processor that you have ,and well within the working variance of the specifications. Researching your stop error seem to point toward system ram , taking into account the problems that you have posted . Although this common stop error could be masked by underlying causes. Try one stick at a time , then replacing more with successful operation. I too believe the best way to troubleshoot is to pull out all the nonessential hardware and software and replace one at a time. Good Luck . Jym "Don Cohen" wrote in message ... Hi Doug, Thanks for the reply and advice. I presume that you feel the voltage measurements are sufficiently accurate with "Motherboard Monitor" and/or AIDA32 to conclude that the VCore is genuinely lower than it should be? And if so, you also feel this small but significant difference could be creating the system instability? I will go ahead and give your plan a try tomorrow, and report back. Thanks much! Best regards, Don "Doug Knox MS-MVP" wrote in message ... Don, The voltages for the various components (RAM, CPU and etc.) are controlled by voltage regulators on the motherboard. Granted, it could be a different component that is having issues, and causing a voltage drop across the entire system. It could also simply be the voltage regulator that supplies the CPU Core Voltage failing due to age. Try removing all add-on cards, and anything but your primary hard disk (you will need to leave the video card in) and retest the system. If the voltage is normal, then add the hardware back one piece at a time until you see the voltage drop. If you still get the voltage difference, even with all extra hardware removed, then you're most likely looking at a motherboard replacement. -- Doug Knox, MS-MVP Windows XP/ Windows Smart Display Win 95/98/Me/XP Tweaks and Fixes http://www.dougknox.com -------------------------------- Per user Group Policy Restrictions for XP Home and XP Pro http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_securityconsole.htm -------------------------------- Please reply only to the newsgroup so all may benefit. Unsolicited e-mail is not answered. "Don Cohen" wrote in message ... Hi, This is a fresh thread based on what was learned in a separate thread (Desperately Need Help - System Reboot/Crashes). The tentative conclusion in the other thread is that my crashes are being caused by hardware, and not software. In that regard, I have installed and run AIDA32 Enterprise System Information. Here is the relevant information: My primary problem is random, sporadic crashes to a BSOD, starting after almost 2 years of relatively glitch-free running, and *not* following any significant hardware or software changes: PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA ****STOP: 0x00000050 (0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000, 0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000) Full details on this problem and prior trouble-shooting can be found in the other thread. Gateway 700XL, approximately 2 years old, XP Home, 1024 mb RAM Intel Pentium 4A, 2.2 GHz (5.5x400), Northwood A80532 CPU chip Intel D850MV (Maryville) Motherboard, i850 Chipset Brand new Antec 430W TruPower PSU (replacing the prior Gateway 250W PSU, but not fixing the crashes) AIDA32 shows the actual CPU Core Voltage for my system varying between 1.43 and 1.45 Volts. AIDA32 also has a section showing the CPU Physical Properties. Here it indicates: --Core Voltage 1.475V - 1.55V-- Someone experiencing similar (but not identical) crashes as me found his CPU Core Voltage to be the source of his problem, indicating his opinion that voltage differences as small as 0.025V can be quite significant. If true, then my CPU Core Voltage is out of the normal range. My questions: 1. Is the difference between the apparent optimal range for Core Voltage and my actual Core Voltage enough to explain these very random crashes? (I can go a few minutes, a few hours, a few days between crashes). 2. Is there any way to adjust this voltage? I have not yet found any BIOS or motherboard jumper settings that might do this. 3. If this is the source of the problem, do I replace the motherboard, or the CPU? In other words, which hardware component is causing the low CPU Core Voltage? Anybody that can offer some knowledgeable advice here? It will be very greatly appreciated. I have been fighting this problem for several weeks now, and consumed untold hours trouble-shooting. Thanks! Don |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Hi Jym,
Your voltages seem to be right where they are suppose to be with the processor that you have ,and well within the working variance of the specifications. Researching your stop error seem to point toward system ram , taking into account the problems that you have posted . Although this common stop error could be masked by underlying causes. Try one stick at a time , then replacing more with successful operation. I too believe the best way to troubleshoot is to pull out all the nonessential hardware and software and replace one at a time. Good Luck . Jym Thanks. I guess this is what I'll be doing for the next few days..... Best regards, Don |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
More or less complicated than diagnosis of a human patient? I'll vote for more
complicated because of the infinite complexity of Windows... Ben Myers On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:53:51 -0500, "Don Cohen" wrote: Hi Jym, Your voltages seem to be right where they are suppose to be with the processor that you have ,and well within the working variance of the specifications. Researching your stop error seem to point toward system ram , taking into account the problems that you have posted . Although this common stop error could be masked by underlying causes. Try one stick at a time , then replacing more with successful operation. I too believe the best way to troubleshoot is to pull out all the nonessential hardware and software and replace one at a time. Good Luck . Jym Thanks. I guess this is what I'll be doing for the next few days..... Best regards, Don |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
vcore mod a7n8x-x | Moods | Asus Motherboards | 1 | January 18th 04 10:23 AM |
JIUCB 1700+ Core Voltage Maximum Limit? | space--coyote | Overclocking AMD Processors | 7 | December 1st 03 08:57 PM |
Proposed System | Thunder9 | General | 80 | October 14th 03 02:50 PM |
Proposed System | Thunder9 | Homebuilt PC's | 80 | October 14th 03 02:50 PM |
Xp2000+ core voltage? | Jerry McBride | Overclocking AMD Processors | 3 | July 21st 03 06:50 AM |