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Homebrew Snap Server / Netdisk ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 5th 03, 03:57 AM
Jeff Sutter
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Default Homebrew Snap Server / Netdisk ?

Does anyone [yet] sell a SnapServer-like kit, where you provide your
own drive(s)?

I'm hoping for a network-attached, not firewire/usb device, in a very
small package, so it can go on the road, that allows drives to appear
as multiple 32g FAT32 partitions, so I can still access them from
Windows 95 systems.

Thanks for any pointers.
Jeff.
  #2  
Old September 5th 03, 03:41 PM
Eric Lee Green
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In article , Jeff Sutter ruminated:
Does anyone [yet] sell a SnapServer-like kit, where you provide your
own drive(s)?

I'm hoping for a network-attached, not firewire/usb device, in a very
small package, so it can go on the road, that allows drives to appear
as multiple 32g FAT32 partitions, so I can still access them from
Windows 95 systems.


The main problem with a "kit" is getting the OS onto the drive from a
CDROM. SnapServer type kits run a Linux, BSD, or proprietary OS that
is typically loaded off of CDROM onto the hard drive. NAS vendors
handle this problem by attaching a CDROM onto their development
system, install the OS, install their own custom software (usually a
GUI of some sort for setting up the thing), then once everything is as
they want it, using a hard drive duplicator to duplicate the hard
drive to the hard drives that are going to actually be installed in
the customer NAS units. That allows them to not have CDROM drives in the
actual customer units, thus saving them $$$ (the SnapServer market is a
very low-margin market, where every penny counts).

Some more capable systems, like the Cobalt, have a bootstrap built
into their BIOS that will allow reloading the OS and software over a
LAN. But they come with a hard drive installed that has the bootstrap
code already on it. Without a hard drive already installed, what would
be needed would be a flash memory chip with the bootstrap code, which would
add $$ to the product.

Your best bet is to buy one of the very-small-footprint systems,
and install Linux or FreeBSD on it as your "NAS".

--
Eric Lee Green
Linux/Unix Software Engineer seeks employment
see http://badtux.org for resume


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  #3  
Old September 5th 03, 09:23 PM
Malcolm Weir
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Default

On 5 Sep 2003 09:41:58 -0500, Eric Lee Green wrote:

[ Snip ]

Some more capable systems, like the Cobalt, have a bootstrap built
into their BIOS that will allow reloading the OS and software over a
LAN. But they come with a hard drive installed that has the bootstrap
code already on it. Without a hard drive already installed, what would
be needed would be a flash memory chip with the bootstrap code, which would
add $$ to the product.


Why "flash"? Why not ROM? As in part of the BIOS? Think protocols
like, oh, BOOTP!

Network bootable PC-class motherboards exist, and have existed for
years and years.

Malc.
  #4  
Old September 6th 03, 04:16 AM
idunno
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On 4 Sep 2003 19:57:01 -0700, (Jeff Sutter) wrote:

Does anyone [yet] sell a SnapServer-like kit, where you provide your
own drive(s)?

I'm hoping for a network-attached, not firewire/usb device, in a very
small package, so it can go on the road, that allows drives to appear
as multiple 32g FAT32 partitions, so I can still access them from
Windows 95 systems.

Thanks for any pointers.
Jeff.


How about Linux on one of those small cube-like shuttle barebones kits
http://us.shuttle.com/

the totally brainless way is with some small form-factor PC and
reByte; an IDE flash card with NAS software preprogrammed:
http://www.rebyte.com/
on sale at that website and even on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=44 994

Small form-factor PC's set up as a NAS device by Joe Blow in his
garage somewhere in Nowheresville USA are on auction all the time for
not very much on eBay.
An example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=14 84


Unfortunately I have NO idea as to the quality of ANY of these items.
I cannot seriously endorse any of them or these sellers. I wouldn't
know where to look for something like what you describe in a retail
store or OEM.

If you plan to access the data on the NAS solely through the network
it doesn't matter what file system you use. Fat32 would be necessary
only if you are planning to physically remove the drive and plug it
into your Win95 box.

If it just needs to be portable and compatible, what's wrong with a
USB HDD? Through the OS of the computer you connect to you can easily
share it on the network.
  #5  
Old September 7th 03, 12:24 AM
Jeff Sutter
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Default

(idunno) wrote in message om...
On 4 Sep 2003 19:57:01 -0700,
(Jeff Sutter) wrote:

How about Linux on one of those small cube-like shuttle barebones kits
http://us.shuttle.com/
...


Excellent pointers to good resources, but all are way too big. I'm
looking for something the size of a 1/2 height 5" portable CDROM
enclosure or smaller, such that it can be tossed into a [nicely
padded] briefcase for transit. Rebyte looks like a great unit, if it
actually works as stated. Cute model, too.

I had considered building a unit in a cdrom enclosure using a mini-itx
motherboard, as some others have, but that would limit me to a 2.5"
HD, which immediately puts you back in the SnapServer price range
without the performance.

If you plan to access the data on the NAS solely through the network
it doesn't matter what file system you use. Fat32 would be necessary
only if you are planning to physically remove the drive and plug it
into your Win95 box.

If it just needs to be portable and compatible, what's wrong with a
USB HDD? Through the OS of the computer you connect to you can easily
share it on the network.


Most of my reliable hardware, in a variety of locations, is Win95
vintage. Newer systems have come and gone, but the proven hardware
won't break. Win95 vintage stuff doesn't support USB well or firewire
at all; the laptops in question don't do Cardbus II, so no USB, and
frankly, USB has always proven itself an unreliable fussbudget. But
all of the systems in question support ethernet NICs just fine, so it
would seem to be the interface of choice.

Sorry I confused network disks with FAT32 - Win95 acts funny when
using Windows Networking, access volumes 32G, or with very large
directory trees. I presume an NAS box could be configured to appear
as multiple network drives of 32G, yes?

Thanks.
Jeff.
  #6  
Old September 7th 03, 01:35 AM
Maxim S. Shatskih
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Default

won't break. Win95 vintage stuff doesn't support USB well or firewire
at all; the laptops in question don't do Cardbus II, so no USB, and
frankly, USB has always proven itself an unreliable fussbudget.


On laptops, USB is very, very great. Maybe USB is one of the greatest ideas of
the laptop computing.
Without USB, you have nearly no ways of attaching hardware to laptop.

Max


  #7  
Old September 7th 03, 06:43 PM
Peter da Silva
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Default

In article ,
Maxim S. Shatskih wrote:
Without USB, you have nearly no ways of attaching hardware to laptop.


Apart from serial, parallel, SCSI, IRDA/IRCOMM, ethernet, PS/2, ...

--
I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs
of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate. All
these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain. `-_-'
Time for your nap. | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag? 'U`
  #8  
Old September 8th 03, 08:32 PM
Malcolm Weir
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Default

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:35:06 +0400, "Maxim S. Shatskih"
wrote:

won't break. Win95 vintage stuff doesn't support USB well or firewire
at all; the laptops in question don't do Cardbus II, so no USB, and
frankly, USB has always proven itself an unreliable fussbudget.


On laptops, USB is very, very great. Maybe USB is one of the greatest ideas of
the laptop computing.
Without USB, you have nearly no ways of attaching hardware to laptop.


The PC-Card (PCMCIA) and Cardbus interfaces were intended to be for
this, in exactly the same way that the ISA and PCI busses are the
mechanisms for attaching harware to a desktop.

Max


Malc.
  #9  
Old September 8th 03, 09:39 PM
Maxim S. Shatskih
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Posts: n/a
Default

On laptops, USB is very, very great. Maybe USB is one of the greatest ideas
of
the laptop computing.
Without USB, you have nearly no ways of attaching hardware to laptop.


The PC-Card (PCMCIA) and Cardbus interfaces were intended to be for
this, in exactly the same way that the ISA and PCI busses are the
mechanisms for attaching harware to a desktop.


Without USB, you will need:
- PS/2 hole for keyboard
- serial port for serial-attached hardware or serial mouse
- PS/2 hole for mouse
- parallel port for printer
- custom PCMCIA card for scanner

and so on. With USB, all you need is a hub, and only if you have more then 2
devices to attach to the laptop.

Max


  #10  
Old September 9th 03, 12:21 AM
idunno
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Posts: n/a
Default

On 6 Sep 2003 16:24:42 -0700, (Jeff Sutter) wrote:

(idunno) wrote in message om...
On 4 Sep 2003 19:57:01 -0700,
(Jeff Sutter)
wrote:

How about Linux on one of those small cube-like shuttle barebones

kits
http://us.shuttle.com/
...


Excellent pointers to good resources, but all are way too big. I'm
looking for something the size of a 1/2 height 5" portable CDROM
enclosure or smaller, such that it can be tossed into a [nicely
padded] briefcase for transit. Rebyte looks like a great unit, if it
actually works as stated. Cute model, too.

I had considered building a unit in a cdrom enclosure using a

mini-itx
motherboard, as some others have, but that would limit me to a 2.5"
HD, which immediately puts you back in the SnapServer price range
without the performance.


I think what you want is a snap appliance. Certainly I think you have
to look at something bigger or more expensive than you were hoping.
What you are looking for sounds like a great product but I don't think
it's here yet. If you could make it and bring it to market - I'd buy
it!

If you plan to access the data on the NAS solely through the

network
it doesn't matter what file system you use. Fat32 would be

necessary
only if you are planning to physically remove the drive and plug it
into your Win95 box.

If it just needs to be portable and compatible, what's wrong with a
USB HDD? Through the OS of the computer you connect to you can

easily
share it on the network.


Most of my reliable hardware, in a variety of locations, is Win95
vintage. Newer systems have come and gone, but the proven hardware
won't break. Win95 vintage stuff doesn't support USB well or

firewire
at all; the laptops in question don't do Cardbus II, so no USB, and
frankly, USB has always proven itself an unreliable fussbudget. But
all of the systems in question support ethernet NICs just fine, so it
would seem to be the interface of choice.


Newer hardware seems to handle USB better than those days (which I
agree was horrible). USB did flounder very badly for a few years.
The parallel port - IDE cases work like champs. H45 Quickdrives
served me well. AFAIK all parallel - IDE units used the same shuttle
chip which works great in Linux, dos, win9x, and NT 4 & higher (the
only problem is that you can't run a SMART polling program with it
connected - I believe shuttle was dissolved before SMART was
widespread so a fix will never happen). The boxes are so old that
they are very hard to find - but I did see one last year factory new
sealed for around $20. I don't know the largest drive geometry it
supports. They do support multi-gig drives and can be hotswapped and
I think even daisey-chained. Performance is reasonable but not
exactly fast.

Sorry I confused network disks with FAT32 - Win95 acts funny when
using Windows Networking, access volumes 32G, or with very large
directory trees. I presume an NAS box could be configured to appear
as multiple network drives of 32G, yes?

Thanks.
Jeff.


Win9x acts funny and gets confused in all kinds of scenarios and has
lots of limitations. Networking in general can be very screwy and
often takes some finessing to kinda work right or get it running
again. I just have no patience for it or the machines of that era. I
was not aware of that limitation esp bc I dumped it long before 32G
drives were ever made. At a certain point eventhough a machine still
"runs" it still can become more trouble than it is worth.
 




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