Nvidia Said to Take On Intel in Tablet Computer Chips

Nvidia Said to Take On Intel in Tablet Computer Chips - Bloomberg
"Trying to replicate the performance of Intel chips using software -- an
approach Transmeta tried about a decade ago -- hasn’t worked before
because it’s hard to deliver enough performance to run computer programs
like Microsoft Corp.’s Windows fast enough, according to In-Stat’s
McGregor. Intel’s X86 technology has taken over the PC and server
industries, displacing companies such as Motorola Inc., whose chips once
ran Apple computers. "
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...rocessors.html

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:26:06 -0400, Yousuf Khan
wrote:
[...]"Intel’s X86 technology has taken over the PC and server
industries, displacing companies such as Motorola Inc., whose chips once
ran Apple computers. "

Wow. "Breaking news", eh?

Did somebody set the Way Back Machine to the 1990s - when "Motorola" and
"computer" were still used in the same sentence?

Sheesh...

obcsiphc: Good luck to emulators everywhere. As always, they're gonna need
it...

/daytripper

On 15/08/2010 8:09 PM, daytripper wrote:
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:26:06 -0400, Yousuf
wrote:
[...]"Intel’s X86 technology has taken over the PC and server
industries, displacing companies such as Motorola Inc., whose chips once
ran Apple computers. "

Wow. "Breaking news", eh?

Did somebody set the Way Back Machine to the 1990s - when "Motorola" and
"computer" were still used in the same sentence?

Sheesh...

obcsiphc: Good luck to emulators everywhere. As always, they're gonna need
it...

/daytripper

They really need to take over VIA, and get their core. The core is modern.

Yousuf Khan

On Aug 15, 8:09*pm, daytripper wrote:
..

obcsiphc: Good luck to emulators everywhere. As always, they're gonna need
it...


As I understand it, x86 now emulates x86. There must be patents
related to instruction decode that make it hard for others to play, as
the ISA and the physical operations of the microprocessor are now
separated by microcode for [almost?] all processors outside the
embedded space. I don't really know of exceptions.

Robert.

On 16/08/2010 5:51 PM, Robert Myers wrote:
On Aug 15, 8:09 pm, wrote:
.

obcsiphc: Good luck to emulators everywhere. As always, they're gonna need
it...


As I understand it, x86 now emulates x86. There must be patents
related to instruction decode that make it hard for others to play, as
the ISA and the physical operations of the microprocessor are now
separated by microcode for [almost?] all processors outside the
embedded space. I don't really know of exceptions.

Robert.

In most modern implementations of x86, certain common instructions are
considered hard-coded, while others are emulated through microcode. Most
floating point instructions are a series of more basic instructions.

Yousuf Khan

On Aug 17, 1:52*pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:


In most modern implementations of x86, certain common instructions are
considered hard-coded, while others are emulated through microcode. Most
floating point instructions are a series of more basic instructions.


I'll take the word of real computer architects on this one, Yousuf.
Past the decode stage, the ISA doesn't matter. Programmers and others
like to talk about ISA's because that's all they understand. ISA is
irrelevant now. Whatever obstacles there are to "emulating" x86 have
nothing to do with the ISA.

Robert.

On 17/08/2010 2:06 PM, Robert Myers wrote:
I'll take the word of real computer architects on this one, Yousuf.
Past the decode stage, the ISA doesn't matter. Programmers and others
like to talk about ISA's because that's all they understand. ISA is
irrelevant now. Whatever obstacles there are to "emulating" x86 have
nothing to do with the ISA.

Yeah, who's that?

Yousuf Khan

On Aug 17, 8:37*pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 17/08/2010 2:06 PM, Robert Myers wrote:

I'll take the word of real computer architects on this one, Yousuf.
Past the decode stage, the ISA doesn't matter. *Programmers and others
like to talk about ISA's because that's all they understand. *ISA is
irrelevant now. *Whatever obstacles there are to "emulating" x86 have
nothing to do with the ISA.

Yeah, who's that?

It's been said in dozens of different ways by architects (formerly of)
both AMD and Intel on comp.arch. It's become almost an obsession with
Mitch Alsup, formerly the chief architect of AMD.

Robert.

On 8/15/2010 1:26 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
Nvidia Said to Take On Intel in Tablet Computer Chips - Bloomberg
"Trying to replicate the performance of Intel chips using software -- an
approach Transmeta tried about a decade ago -- hasn’t worked before
because it’s hard to deliver enough performance to run computer programs
like Microsoft Corp.’s Windows fast enough, according to In-Stat’s
McGregor. Intel’s X86 technology has taken over the PC and server
industries, displacing companies such as Motorola Inc., whose chips once
ran Apple computers. "
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...rocessors.html




Here's a more pessimistic take on the Nvidia x86 story:

SemiAccurate :: Details emerge about Nvidia's x86 CPU
"Nvidia is more than capable of implementing the Eagle core in an SoC,
but if anything will delay a part, a new core is near the top of the
list. There will have to be a lot of tweaking done to the core, or at
the very least, a lot of work done on the surrounding components to
enable an x86 translation engine. All of this carries a lot of risk, and
that risk tends to show up as delays in product shipping.

That said, lets assume that Tegra 5, code named T50, will be on time.
How is an ARM core related to x86? That is easy, Nvidia is going to use
Transmeta-esque code morphing firmware to make the CPU run x86 code.
Firmware x86 has two associated problems, one technical, one legal.

On the technical side, the problem is simple, speed. ARM A9 CPUs are
great for phone level applications, and can reach into the current
tablet space, but hit a glass ceiling there. If Eagle doubles the
performance per MHz and doubles performance per watt, it will basically
be on par with the low end of the Atom-class CPUs, and woefully behind
the Nano/Bobcat level of performance."
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/08/...idias-x86-cpu/

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:52:14 -0400, Yousuf Khan
wrote:

On 16/08/2010 5:51 PM, Robert Myers wrote:
On Aug 15, 8:09 pm, wrote:
.

obcsiphc: Good luck to emulators everywhere. As always, they're gonna need
it...


As I understand it, x86 now emulates x86. There must be patents
related to instruction decode that make it hard for others to play, as
the ISA and the physical operations of the microprocessor are now
separated by microcode for [almost?] all processors outside the
embedded space. I don't really know of exceptions.

Robert.

In most modern implementations of x86, certain common instructions are
considered hard-coded, while others are emulated through microcode. Most
floating point instructions are a series of more basic instructions.

Yousuf Khan


ooooh..."emulated through microcode" seems rather pejorative, considering the
obvious alternative design styles might never yield a functional device in
your lifetime ;-)

/daytripper