External hard drive occasional "clicking"

"JAD" wrote in message
Even you should be able to bull**** your way out of your
predicament better than that pathetic effort, gutless.


is that in a notepad so you can cut and paste it?

Usually it means:
" I'm out of arguments and will cave in but can't be seen to say that".


"Rod Speed" wrote in message ...

JAD wrote in message ...

fish somewhere else


You lied. Like that or lump it.


Rod Speed wrote
JAD wrote
David Maynard wrote

Actually, Seagate is seeing a lower return rate which gives them some
room to use warranty as a competitive weapon.

http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20040803.html

like I said in one sentence 20 posts ago...

Nothing like what you said, particularly on the
lower rate of return allowing them to do that.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:52:03 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


Like hell you ever did.

Then you missed the post. I made a post with three urls giving data on
the average life expectancy of the average HDD. One was a study done
by a university. Who should I believe? Them, or some usenet knobs?


Dont need to, I know its mindless pig ignorant drivel.

Look, you dumb ****, everything has an average life expectancy.
Humans have an average life expectancy, some live longer than others,
some don't, but there is an average. Same applies to HDD's, TV's, CD
player, Car's etc. Some fall out of the average due to superior build
manufacturer or technolgy incorporated. Why is that so hard for your
pea brain to understand? Now go look up the available data and get
back to me with your humble apology.

Aldwyn Edain wrote in message
...
Rod Speed wrote

Like hell you ever did.

Then you missed the post.

Yeah, it is on groups.google

I made a post with three urls giving data on the
average life expectancy of the average HDD.

Those werent in fact measured numbers, just waffle basically.

One was a study done by a university.

Wrong. The only university 'study' wasnt on that particular
question, they just claimed that 'Industry analysts report'

http://www.continuitycentral.c*om/news01021.htm
Carnegie Mellon University researchers have designed a new
heat-sensitive sensor to detect computer hard drive failures.

The Carnegie Mellon Critter Temperature Sensor, which
attaches to a user's desktop computer, is being deployed
across campus to monitor the working environment of university
computers, according to Michael Bigrigg, a project scientist
for the Institute for Complex Engineered Systems (ICES).

"Essentially what we are trying to do is save the life of the
computer hard drive. Hard drives get hot and the sensor is
designed to pick up the slightest temperature variation," Bigrigg said.

Industry analysts report that the average lifespan of a
computer hard drive is 600,000 hours or 3.1 years.

That last sentance isnt even from Carnegie Mellon anyway.

And its a VERY suspiciously round number, bet it was
actually plucked out of some Industry analysts' arse.

Who should I believe?

Clearly not that particular steaming turd.

Lets have a look at the other steaming turds shall we ?

http://www.g4tv.com/techtvvaul*t/fea...e_av*erage_lif...

Soorree, 'Glenda from Macon, Georgia' cuts no mustard around here.

While it's not unusual to get a hard drive that doesn't work on
arrival, or fails within the first few months, most hard drives should
last about 4 to 6 years. In a laboratory setting, hard drives have a
Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) of 300,000 hours. That means, when
1,000 hard drives are run continuously, one fails every 300,000 hours.
But the MTBF isn't a very accurate gauge of a hard drive's real-world
lifespan.

Most hard drives should last about 4 to 6 years.

Clearly a steaming turd that only pig ignorant fools like you would swallow.

http://www.creativepro.com/sto*ry/feature/16287-2.html

Soorree, 'creativepro.com a service of PrintingForLess.com' cuts no mustard
around here.

In fact, drives often live longer than the average lifespan of
PCs. Disregarding the MTBF calculation, the average drive
in real-world use lasts between 33,000 and 55,000 hours,
or 3.8 and 6.3 years. That's with everyday, daylong use.

Just plucked out of that fool's arse.

Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed the
considerable variation in the numbers in those steaming turds.

Them, or some usenet knobs?

You could try putting that tiny little 'brain' in gear and
recognising that the numbers you cited dont even match.

And that its just a tad unlikely that if the average was
actually 3.1 years, that Seagate would actually be
stupid enough to warranty their drives for 5 years.

Look it up yourself and tell me what you find.

Dont need to, I know its mindless pig ignorant drivel.

Look, you dumb ****, everything has an average life expectancy.

Pity it isnt actually possible to 'look it up' with hard drives, ****wit.

Humans have an average life expectancy, some live longer
than others, some don't, but there is an average. Same applies
to HDD's, TV's, CD player, Car's etc. Some fall out of the average
due to superior build manufacturer or technolgy incorporated.
Why is that so hard for your pea brain to understand?

Never ever said that there aint an average life expectancy, ****wit child.

I JUST said that it aint actually possible to
LOOK IT UP with modern hard drives.

Now go look up the available data

Not even possible.

and get back to me with your humble apology.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, child.

Peter wrote:

Like hell you ever did.

Then you missed the post. I made a post with three urls giving data on
the average life expectancy of the average HDD. One was a study done
by a university.

Maybe you did not post in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

newsgroup.

Who should I believe? Them, or some usenet knobs?

As per your reference, in:
http://www.continuitycentral.com/news01021.htm
"Industry analysts report that the average lifespan of a computer hard
drive is 600,000 hours or 3.1 years. But Carnegie Mellon researchers
predict that they may be able to extend the lifespan of a computer hard
drive and save users time and money by sensing how much daily heat a hard
drive endures. On average, it costs $80 to $200 to repair a damaged hard
drive, according to ICES."

Last time I have checked 600,000 hours was about 68.5 years.
They must used a different calendar system.

New math?

Furthermore if they slipped a decimal it's still 6.8, not 3.1.

Your second reference:

http://www.g4tv.com/techtvvault/feat...om e_use.html
"While it's not unusual to get a hard drive that doesn't work on
arrival, or fails within the first few months, most hard drives should
last about 4 to 6 years. In a laboratory setting, hard drives have a
Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) of 300,000 hours. That means, when
1,000 hard drives are run continuously, one fails every 300,000 hours.
But the MTBF isn't a very accurate gauge of a hard drive's real-world
lifespan.
Most hard drives should last about 4 to 6 years."

Again, there must be a typo. When 1,000 hard drives are run continuously,
one fails every 300 hours. Not every 300,000 hours.

I agree with the second statement but with a small correction:
Most hard drives should last AT LEAST about 4 to 6 years.

The last reference:
http://www.creativepro.co.uk/story/feature/16287-2.html
"In fact, drives often live longer than the average lifespan of PCs.
Disregarding the MTBF calculation, the average drive in real-world use
lasts between 33,000 and 55,000 hours, or 3.8 and 6.3 years. That's
with everyday, daylong use."

I think author meant PC lifespan, not a hard drive.

None of those sources state on what they are basing their estimate.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Like hell you ever did.

Then you missed the post. I made a post with three urls giving data on
the average life expectancy of the average HDD. One was a study done
by a university.

Maybe you did not post in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

newsgroup.

Who should I believe? Them, or some usenet knobs?

As per your reference, in:
http://www.continuitycentral.com/news01021.htm
"Industry analysts report that the average lifespan of a computer hard drive
is 600,000 hours or 3.1 years. But Carnegie Mellon researchers predict that
they may be able to extend the lifespan of a computer hard drive and save
users time and money by sensing how much daily heat a hard drive endures. On
average, it costs $80 to $200 to repair a damaged hard drive, according to
ICES."

Last time I have checked 600,000 hours was about 68.5 years.
They must used a different calendar system.

Your second reference:
http://www.g4tv.com/techtvvault/feat...om e_use.html
"While it's not unusual to get a hard drive that doesn't work on
arrival, or fails within the first few months, most hard drives should
last about 4 to 6 years. In a laboratory setting, hard drives have a
Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) of 300,000 hours. That means, when
1,000 hard drives are run continuously, one fails every 300,000 hours.
But the MTBF isn't a very accurate gauge of a hard drive's real-world
lifespan.
Most hard drives should last about 4 to 6 years."

Again, there must be a typo. When 1,000 hard drives are run continuously,
one fails every 300 hours. Not every 300,000 hours.

I agree with the second statement but with a small correction:
Most hard drives should last AT LEAST about 4 to 6 years.

The last reference:
http://www.creativepro.co.uk/story/feature/16287-2.html
"In fact, drives often live longer than the average lifespan of PCs.
Disregarding the MTBF calculation, the average drive in real-world use
lasts between 33,000 and 55,000 hours, or 3.8 and 6.3 years. That's
with everyday, daylong use."

I think author meant PC lifespan, not a hard drive.

Peter wrote in message
...

Like hell you ever did.

Then you missed the post. I made a post with three urls
giving data on the average life expectancy of the average
HDD. One was a study done by a university.

Maybe you did not post in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
newsgroup.

Yeah, that was the problem, Aldwyn only posted in
one of the newsgroups that this thread appears in.

Who should I believe? Them, or some usenet knobs?

As per your reference, in:
http://www.continuitycentral.com/news01021.htm
"Industry analysts report that the average lifespan of a computer hard drive
is 600,000 hours or 3.1 years. But Carnegie Mellon researchers predict that
they may be able to extend the lifespan of a computer hard drive and save
users time and money by sensing how much daily heat a hard drive endures.
On average, it costs $80 to $200 to repair a damaged hard drive, according
to ICES."

Last time I have checked 600,000 hours was about 68.5 years.
They must used a different calendar system.

Your second reference:
http://www.g4tv.com/techtvvault/feat...om e_use.html
"While it's not unusual to get a hard drive that doesn't work on
arrival, or fails within the first few months, most hard drives should
last about 4 to 6 years. In a laboratory setting, hard drives have a
Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) of 300,000 hours. That means, when
1,000 hard drives are run continuously, one fails every 300,000 hours.
But the MTBF isn't a very accurate gauge of a hard drive's real-world
lifespan.
Most hard drives should last about 4 to 6 years."

Again, there must be a typo. When 1,000 hard drives are run continuously,
one fails every 300 hours. Not every 300,000 hours.

I agree with the second statement but with a small correction:
Most hard drives should last AT LEAST about 4 to 6 years.

The last reference:
http://www.creativepro.co.uk/story/feature/16287-2.html
"In fact, drives often live longer than the average lifespan of PCs.
Disregarding the MTBF calculation, the average drive in real-world use
lasts between 33,000 and 55,000 hours, or 3.8 and 6.3 years. That's
with everyday, daylong use."

I think author meant PC lifespan, not a hard drive.

Dunno, he appears to be saying that hard
drives often live longer than PCs on average.

Thats a rather dubious claim.

"Michael Cecil" wrote in message
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:47:44 +0100, Odie Ferrous wrote:


Does it entail dropping a drive onto a solid tiled floor from 10cm or
something a little more adventurous?

I'd suggest from table top height, at an angle.

Oooh, personal experience?

"Odie Ferrous" wrote in message
Folkert Rienstra wrote:


SMART will record the fact that the drive has been subjected to "excessive shock"

Doubtful. No such field. And why record it if it can be readout at any time.

In an earlier (way back) post Svend reported that an excessive shock error went
away after a Low Level Format (IBM Drive Fitness Test) on a Deskstar.
That conforms with what I see for an Ultrastar that only comes up with that error
after some media tests have run, suggesting that this result comes from actual testing,
not from reading a SMART log.

I'm going to test this theory in the next couple of days.

I have a some deskstars, travelstars and ultrastars I can use.

Trouble is going to be working out what "excessive shock" actually is.

Well, in my case it means being a very loud spinner, like a first generation
10 or 15k Cheetah. It's a 36GB IBM 146z10 which should actually be quiet
as a churchmouse. It doesn't vibrate that more excessive than my other
76GB 146z10 though (like one might expect), and it already starts at the
very first rotations so this may be a bearing issue.
Another indicator is that the actuator is somehow slowed or hanging as
the drive gives me irregular changing STR results in a bench mark, in the
sense of where on the disk it is as well as well as from different runs.
Also, the head returning to zero position after each idle period, I would
describe as 'hesitant' sounding, as if it has to make more effort than usual.
Again this could be chalked-up to a bad bearing.
Third, it has very, very bad write performance, perhaps caused by even
more difficulty of holding track than it already has with reading.


Does it entail dropping a drive onto a solid tiled floor from 10cm or
something a little more adventurous?

You are going to break them?
I have no idea. Mine has no visual external damage.
I bought it at a computer fair from a hardware broker that buys-up ex-
cess warehouse inventory, in this case probably warranty returns from a
computer distibutor or a diskdrive repair centre that may have gone bust.



Odie

Eric Gisin wrote:

Manufacturers document returns rates of under 5% in 3 years for IDE drives.
There were a few lemons with higher rates.

Your anti-IBM slime campaign has now been widely discredited.

Back the drive up, before ANYTHING else.