Can't Access BIOS

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:30:22 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:


According to the online manual at:

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-produ...uide_en-us.pdf

you need to hit the F2 key while the Dell logo is still displayed. Do
you see the logo splash screen when you do a *cold* boot of the
computer? If you have a CRT monitor, it might be taking longer to warm
up to show anything but which is too late; i.e., it's warming up and may
not display anything until after the logo screen has passed.

If you aren't seeing the logo screen during which you have to hit F2 to
go into the BIOS, insert a non-bootable floppy or CD into its drive. If
the BIOS is configured in its boot priority order to first boot from
removable media (floppy, CD, USB)

Make sure ALL other USB devices are disconnected. This computer has no
PS/2 ports so you're stuck having to use USB keyboard and mouse. Unplug
any USB-attached printers, scanners, cameras,

They are unplugged.

The screen remains blank - nothing is displayed during all this. In
fact, I see nothing on the screen until it asks me for my login
password.

The Dell machine has a video card with both VGA and DVI ports on it. I
tried both because I do have two monitors, but the same thing happens.
Also, if I try the F2 or F12 keys, the machine will NEVER boot up at
all. It only boots IF I hit the power button and do nothing else
until the password window displays. That sure seems weird to me.

I tried a non-bootable DVD disk in the drive. Had no effect.


Whose brand and model of keyboard are you using? Some have an F-lock
key which, if off, means you get the alternate function of the F keys,
and that means NOT issuing the F-key scan code but the alternate
function. Make sure the F-lock key has its LED lit so the F-keys
actually issue F-key scan codes when pressed.

I have tried two, one is wireless - one is wired. The one I normally
use and am using now is a wireless Logitech MK300.
Its Fn key does not light.


If it's an undersized (e.g., laptop style) keyboard then maybe it has a
Fn key to switch functions of a set of keys in the alpha section of the
keyboard.

It is a regular-sized keyboard.


When you cold boot (power off and then power on), do you see the LED
lights on the keyboard flash?
no
On a cold boot, the CPU issues a clear
(reset) signal to all devices to initialize them so they are in a known
starting state. Make sure you are doing a cold boot. Some computers'
Power button actually goes into low-power mode instead of powering off
the computer. Power off using the button and then yank the power cord
from the back of the case. Wait a minute, plug the cord back in, and
then power up using the button.

Did this - no change.

I do notice one thing. The case has a led showing processing is going
on. That led is not lit at all during the times the machine is hung
during its non-boot. However, when it does boot (when I leave the
keys alone), the led blinks as it normally does on most machines I
have used. So it is really hung - doing nothing.


If it's a really old computer then its CMOS battery is dead. They only
last about 5 years. With a dead battery, the copy of the BIOS settings
in the CMOS table may be corrupt. You may need to get inside to short
the 2-pin CMOS header to clear the CMOS table and reload it from default
BIOS settings. First replace the CMOS battery (typically a coin cell
type, like CR-2032) and then jumper the 2-pin reset header for about 10
seconds, remove the jumper, and reboot to see if you can get into BIOS.


I can change the battery, but it should be okay. The computer time is
always correct.

Just at what point are you measuring the time it takes for the hardware
to "boot up"? Are you waiting until the POST screen appears but before
the OS loads? Or are you including the time for the OS to load? If so,
are you counting until the logon screen appears or until you've been
logged in (automatically) and the desktop settles and the computer
becomes usable? "boot up" doesn't say to what point you are measuring.
2-3 minutes to start the hardware, load the OS, and logon and let
startup process load is not a long wait.


2-3 minutes.
Thanks
Tarzan

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:15:25 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

tarzan wrote:

Carpe_Diem wrote:

Is the keyboard USB or PS/2? If usb, try a PS/2.

It is USB. I tried a second keyboard - same. The Dell has no PS/2.

Tried using a different USB port? There are USB ports on the front and
back. Don't just switch to a paired USB port (they come in pairs both
going to the same controller). Switch to a different set of USB ports,
like moving from the back to the front ports, or visa versa.

Did it - no change.


Have you disconnected *all* other USB devices (printers, cameras,
scanners, thumb flash drives) so only the USB keyboard is connected?

yes

I think its broke.

Thanks

Tarzan

wrote:

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:30:22 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

According to the online manual at:

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-produ...uide_en-us.pdf

you need to hit the F2 key while the Dell logo is still displayed. Do
you see the logo splash screen when you do a *cold* boot of the
computer? If you have a CRT monitor, it might be taking longer to warm
up to show anything but which is too late; i.e., it's warming up and may
not display anything until after the logo screen has passed.

If you aren't seeing the logo screen during which you have to hit F2 to
go into the BIOS, insert a non-bootable floppy or CD into its drive. If
the BIOS is configured in its boot priority order to first boot from
removable media (floppy, CD, USB)

Make sure ALL other USB devices are disconnected. This computer has no
PS/2 ports so you're stuck having to use USB keyboard and mouse. Unplug
any USB-attached printers, scanners, cameras,

They are unplugged.

The screen remains blank - nothing is displayed during all this. In
fact, I see nothing on the screen until it asks me for my login
password.

The Dell machine has a video card with both VGA and DVI ports on it. I
tried both because I do have two monitors, but the same thing happens.
Also, if I try the F2 or F12 keys, the machine will NEVER boot up at
all. It only boots IF I hit the power button and do nothing else
until the password window displays. That sure seems weird to me.

I tried a non-bootable DVD disk in the drive. Had no effect.


Whose brand and model of keyboard are you using? Some have an F-lock
key which, if off, means you get the alternate function of the F keys,
and that means NOT issuing the F-key scan code but the alternate
function. Make sure the F-lock key has its LED lit so the F-keys
actually issue F-key scan codes when pressed.

I have tried two, one is wireless - one is wired. The one I normally
use and am using now is a wireless Logitech MK300.
Its Fn key does not light.


If it's an undersized (e.g., laptop style) keyboard then maybe it has a
Fn key to switch functions of a set of keys in the alpha section of the
keyboard.

It is a regular-sized keyboard.


When you cold boot (power off and then power on), do you see the LED
lights on the keyboard flash?
no
On a cold boot, the CPU issues a clear
(reset) signal to all devices to initialize them so they are in a known
starting state. Make sure you are doing a cold boot. Some computers'
Power button actually goes into low-power mode instead of powering off
the computer. Power off using the button and then yank the power cord
from the back of the case. Wait a minute, plug the cord back in, and
then power up using the button.

Did this - no change.

I do notice one thing. The case has a led showing processing is going
on. That led is not lit at all during the times the machine is hung
during its non-boot. However, when it does boot (when I leave the
keys alone), the led blinks as it normally does on most machines I
have used. So it is really hung - doing nothing.


If it's a really old computer then its CMOS battery is dead. They only
last about 5 years. With a dead battery, the copy of the BIOS settings
in the CMOS table may be corrupt. You may need to get inside to short
the 2-pin CMOS header to clear the CMOS table and reload it from default
BIOS settings. First replace the CMOS battery (typically a coin cell
type, like CR-2032) and then jumper the 2-pin reset header for about 10
seconds, remove the jumper, and reboot to see if you can get into BIOS.


I can change the battery, but it should be okay. The computer time is
always correct.

Just at what point are you measuring the time it takes for the hardware
to "boot up"? Are you waiting until the POST screen appears but before
the OS loads? Or are you including the time for the OS to load? If so,
are you counting until the logon screen appears or until you've been
logged in (automatically) and the desktop settles and the computer
becomes usable? "boot up" doesn't say to what point you are measuring.
2-3 minutes to start the hardware, load the OS, and logon and let
startup process load is not a long wait.

2-3 minutes.
Thanks
Tarzan

Then maybe the problem isn't with the input devices (keyboard and mouse)
but with the output device (monitor). If you see nothing but a blank
screen then the problem is video. Of course, I'm assuming the monitor
is plugged in and works okay.

When you boot, you should hear a single beep. That's the video BIOS
loading. The video BIOS has to load first before the system BIOS.
That's because the video has to be present in order for you to even seen
the BIOS, POST screen, and so on. Do you get any beeps when you do a
cold boot?

Are you using the onboard video (backpanel connector) or a video
daughtercard in a card slot? To what is your monitor connected?

In the Google Images that I see of this computer's backpanel, there is
only a VGA backpanel port. In the online manual for that model to which
I gave a link, it only mentions a VGA backpanel port. There is no DVI
port in that model. To have DVI means you have to add a video card.
Are you connecting the monitor to a video card instead of onboard video?

The 15-pin Dsub VGA port looks like:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...c/VGA_port.jpg

A DVI port looks like:

http://www.sudcamp.com/wp-content/up...i_d_socket.jpg
or has a layout like:
http://www.elecdan.com/fileadmin/use..._Dual_Link.jpg

Are both of these in the backpanel so they are onboard video (from
chipset on motherboard inside the case)? Or do you have a video card
with both these type of connectors?

On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:52:00 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:


Then maybe the problem isn't with the input devices (keyboard and mouse)
but with the output device (monitor). If you see nothing but a blank
screen then the problem is video. Of course, I'm assuming the monitor
is plugged in and works okay.

When you boot, you should hear a single beep. That's the video BIOS
loading. The video BIOS has to load first before the system BIOS.
That's because the video has to be present in order for you to even seen
the BIOS, POST screen, and so on. Do you get any beeps when you do a
cold boot?

Are you using the onboard video (backpanel connector) or a video
daughtercard in a card slot? To what is your monitor connected?

In the Google Images that I see of this computer's backpanel, there is
only a VGA backpanel port. In the online manual for that model to which
I gave a link, it only mentions a VGA backpanel port. There is no DVI
port in that model. To have DVI means you have to add a video card.
Are you connecting the monitor to a video card instead of onboard video?

The 15-pin Dsub VGA port looks like:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...c/VGA_port.jpg

A DVI port looks like:

http://www.sudcamp.com/wp-content/up...i_d_socket.jpg
or has a layout like:
http://www.elecdan.com/fileadmin/use..._Dual_Link.jpg

Are both of these in the backpanel so they are onboard video (from
chipset on motherboard inside the case)? Or do you have a video card
with both these type of connectors?


You solved it!

As it turns out, the back panel has two VGA ports, one 'integrated'
the other one of the DVI/VGA pairing on the video card I added. Once
I switched the physical VGA connection to the integrated port, I could
get VGA video at boot. I then entered the BIOS with F2, and changed
the video to the addin card, and now all works fine. That is, I can
see a DVI BIOS screen at boot and can do what I want/need.

Thanks

Tarzan

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:52:00 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:


Then maybe the problem isn't with the input devices (keyboard and mouse)
but with the output device (monitor). If you see nothing but a blank
screen then the problem is video. Of course, I'm assuming the monitor
is plugged in and works okay.

When you boot, you should hear a single beep. That's the video BIOS
loading. The video BIOS has to load first before the system BIOS.
That's because the video has to be present in order for you to even seen
the BIOS, POST screen, and so on. Do you get any beeps when you do a
cold boot?

Are you using the onboard video (backpanel connector) or a video
daughtercard in a card slot? To what is your monitor connected?

In the Google Images that I see of this computer's backpanel, there is
only a VGA backpanel port. In the online manual for that model to which
I gave a link, it only mentions a VGA backpanel port. There is no DVI
port in that model. To have DVI means you have to add a video card.
Are you connecting the monitor to a video card instead of onboard video?

The 15-pin Dsub VGA port looks like:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...c/VGA_port.jpg

A DVI port looks like:

http://www.sudcamp.com/wp-content/up...i_d_socket.jpg
or has a layout like:
http://www.elecdan.com/fileadmin/use..._Dual_Link.jpg

Are both of these in the backpanel so they are onboard video (from
chipset on motherboard inside the case)? Or do you have a video card
with both these type of connectors?


You solved it!

As it turns out, the back panel has two VGA ports, one 'integrated'
the other one of the DVI/VGA pairing on the video card I added. Once
I switched the physical VGA connection to the integrated port, I could
get VGA video at boot. I then entered the BIOS with F2, and changed
the video to the addin card, and now all works fine. That is, I can
see a DVI BIOS screen at boot and can do what I want/need.

Thanks

Tarzan

Congratulations to both of you.

As simple a matter as this came out to be it takes a quality amount of
logical insight to consider the possibilities that are causing the problem.
I've actually gone through the double D-sub video error myself and suddenly
realized when I was getting a blank screen that I had plugged into the mobo
video instead of the additional graphics card I'd installed at one point and
had the bios expecting.
--
Jan Alter

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:13:20 -0400, "Jan Alter"
wrote:


Congratulations to both of you.

As simple a matter as this came out to be it takes a quality amount of
logical insight to consider the possibilities that are causing the problem.
I've actually gone through the double D-sub video error myself and suddenly
realized when I was getting a blank screen that I had plugged into the mobo
video instead of the additional graphics card I'd installed at one point and
had the bios expecting.


Thanks for your kind words.

Glad to know there are at least two 'dummies' out there. Looking
back, I should have thought of that possibility and at least looked at
the rear of the case. Hopefully I will next time.

Tarzan