Why Pentium?

I wrote:

Sony fluid dynamic bearing 120 mm case fan. Has a 15,000 our
lifespan.

Sorry, that should read "150,000 hour"

A little over 17 years? that should be long enough..


"John Doe" wrote in message
...
I wrote:

Sony fluid dynamic bearing 120 mm case fan. Has a 15,000 our
lifespan.

Sorry, that should read "150,000 hour"

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:50:00 GMT, John Doe
wrote:

kony spam spam.com wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:12:38 GMT, John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

kony spam spam.com wrote:

Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk.

Says who?



Anyone that's had a few years experience dealing with failed
fans.

In other words, you cannot provide a citation.

In other words, it is common knowledge and you can easily
find this yourself via:

Google or any mainstream search service
Usenet search
Any fan manufacturer that makes lifespan projections

There are NO fan manufacturers that claim fluid bearing fans
have longer lifespan and most claim only (roughly) 50% of
the lifespan of dual ball bearings.

Which citation would you prefer? There are SO many, so
let's get your foolish arguments out of the way first so I
can provide the most applicable to dispell your
misunderstanding.




A very few manufacturers make decent ones, like Panasonic,
Papst, Comair, a few Sunons and Deltas are passible.

Any serious design needing longest fan life uses dual ball
bearing fans if at all possible.

That's backwards. Fluid dynamic bearings last many times longer
than ball bearings.

There is no reputable source to back up your claim. Even
the premium fan manufacturers themselves acknowledge
otherwise

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835185006

Sony fluid dynamic bearing 120 mm case fan. Has a 15,000 our
lifespan.

15,000 hour?

While that IS what the product page says, it's funny!

The funny part is you are clueless about fans. If you'd had
a clue, you would have realized that 15,000 hours is an
incredibly LOW lifespan for a fan, that the lifespan
projection for that product was supposed to be 150,000
hours.

They can make this questionable lifespan rating because of
two factors:

1) Assume ideal operating condition. IE- low heat
2) They base it on the low RPM. Usually fan manufacturers
spec a family of fans, including those with much higher RPM,
while the higher RPM fans have a lower actual lifespan than
the lower RPM of the same model. Similarly, any crap fan
can be taken out of context, selectively focusing on the
lowest RPM model and then suggesting a longer lifespan than
it actually has.




http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186008

Arctic Cooling fluid dynamic bearing 120 mm case fan. Comes with a
six-year warranty.


That doesn't mean it has a longer lifespan, it means they've
overpriced it enough to offset any potential RMA issues. Do
you realize just how little a sleeve fan costs in volume?
It is trivial to them to replace it free, the shipping cost
is multiple times as much, but putting interest on their
profit, they can cover that too. Further, six years is
lower than the expected lifespan of a system.


Panasonic is a major manufacturer of fluid dynamic bearing fans, for
many years.

Yes, I'd already mentioned them as an exception. They do
NOT rate their fluid dynamic bearing fans as having a higher
lifespan than their dual ball bearing fans.

BTW, do us all a favor and stop with the nonsense about
"fluid dynamic bearings", as they are SLEEVE BEARINGS and
any other term is a senseless marketing gimmick.




so you're either quite ignorant and stupid for
drawing a conclusion while ignorant, or just trolling.

More like teaching you a lesson.

You have enough ego to get your system's cooling into a bind
but nowhere near enough experience to teach.



I won't hold my breath waiting for citations you will never provide.

Don't you mean that you're just ignorant?

Seriously, you started a disagreement about fans yet you
think we need to provide a spec when you could have easily
read it yourself from any of the major manufacturers if you
had ever been to their websites and read the datasheets.

If it were new information, it'd be "news", but the only
thing new is that we became aware how ignorant you are about
fans. Anyone and their brother has known dual ball bearing
fans are at least as long lived, sometimes MUCH longer
lived.

These products you cite haven't even existed long enough for
you to pretend to have any experience with their actual
lifespans. It is impossible for you to have experience with
them, whether their projections actually hold true. So
you're an armchair quarterback who read marketing blurbs,
believed them, and didn't ever bother to test anything
yourself.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:02:34 GMT, John Doe
wrote:

Jure Sah admin thought-beacon.net wrote:

kony pravi:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:53:06 GMT, John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:


My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Whatever.

Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk.

I second that.

That makes two trolls with no citations.



We aren't burdened with countering anyone's ignorance, it
would never end. This is another example of common
knowledge, that which any competent engineer or system
integrator has know since the beginning and believe me,
they'd love to shave some $ off the costs if there weren't
the detractions, especially when sleeve bearing fans have
significantly lower high pitched noise.

So you can't be bothered to find any information yourself,
only a product listing? Do you believe all product
listings? How about a $15 600W PSU with one of those fluid
dynamic blahblahblah in it, are those good too because they
wrote some lofty specs?

Sorry, there comes a point where you have to have some
experience instead of just repeating marketing by gypsy
companies selling PC parts they dont' even make.

What might we Google for a citation? How about;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...leeve+bearings

VERY FIRST GOOGLE HIT,
http://www.currentsolutions.com/know...sleevefans.htm
excerpt:

"The chart indicates that when temperatures ranged from 25
to 60 degrees C, ball-bearing fans on average outlasted
sleeve-bearing fans by 50 percent. When temperatures
exceeded 700 degrees C, ball-bearing fans ran for 45,000
hours, while sleeve-bearing fans became inoperable. Yet,
when the ambient temperatures were relatively low,
sleeve-bearing fans lasted as long as ball-bearing fans."

Since any normal system will be in that 25-60C range, we can
conclude this is one citation.

SECOND HIT,
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=193
excerpts;

"Ball bearings... most important for our situation - long
life" "With proper lubrication sleeve bearings will provide
performance and service on par with that of their ball
bearing counterparts. If left alone for a long time, and run
at higher temperatures they will fail before the ball
bearings will."


------------------

So far we have the first two hits Google found. The trend
continues with practically EVERY link that discusses both
types. So it seems it is [entire world] vs [you]

So tell us, is it you [the one who doesn't make fans, hasn't
actually tested the fans you linked for they haven't even
existed as long as their spec'd lifespan, and doesn't even
use proper terms for sleeve bearing fans] that knows about
fans, or it is major website reviewers, fan manufacturers
themselves, engineers, and just about every possible 3rd
party?

Sorry but you are a lone advocate of them for lifespan
improvement and have no evidence besides a line of text
versus 'site after 'site after 'site.

As expected, the troll provides lots of babbling but no citations.


Path: newssvr13.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm04.news.prodigy. com!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon 06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!border1.nntp.dca.g iganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.insightbb.com!news.insightbb.com.PO STED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:44:35 -0500
From: kony spam spam.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt. comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.computer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.ch ips
Subject: Why Pentium?
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:46:22 -0400
Reply-To: spam spam.com
Message-ID: 08h2c2diaqpm4evtbco4rnbo6b58o7mmtq 4ax.com
References: 4hbl1aF1qlql5U1 individual.net icq9b2ldci81q6es9jupvemokrrhprshee 4ax.com 4hkr8hF2bseU1 individual.net kHNvg.4362$oj5.1511399 news.siol.net Xns9806854A4F3580123456789 207.115.17.102 2jSvg.4371$oj5.1512740 news.siol.net Xns9806ABC3D3F3B0123456789 207.115.17.102 qod0c29i4eqs0t0gtffi4kei8orb2rvqma 4ax.com Xns98073F2E715D30123456789 207.115.17.102 75k1c2d3k9r0k5g9hakhcgv4tn84udi8v3 4ax.com Xns980796E51DC2B0123456789 207.115.17.102
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 144
NNTP-Posting-Host: 74.129.166.247
X-Trace: sv3-2p8H4qv45HC03yAyudQVolTpbDFVpgeM3Du4FmQRjrp8l07DNn HMuhgSlXDIRIg+2ACqECzpzt1WtWA!lfM8h/qRhbjlWQQl3omNsa5Jcs4KA7JKR8+9+F7xP1d+Nnr1Grf9/Gu696a7omZeP3Rbili0tVIS!6YmEvsjOa2u+1Q==
X-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.32
Xref: prodigy.net alt.comp.hardwa314734 alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt:223711 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:471604 alt.computer:270405 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:460766

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:50:00 GMT, John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

kony spam spam.com wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:12:38 GMT, John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

kony spam spam.com wrote:

Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk.

Says who?



Anyone that's had a few years experience dealing with failed
fans.

In other words, you cannot provide a citation.

In other words, it is common knowledge and you can easily
find this yourself via:

Google or any mainstream search service
Usenet search
Any fan manufacturer that makes lifespan projections

There are NO fan manufacturers that claim fluid bearing fans
have longer lifespan and most claim only (roughly) 50% of
the lifespan of dual ball bearings.

Which citation would you prefer? There are SO many, so
let's get your foolish arguments out of the way first so I
can provide the most applicable to dispell your
misunderstanding.




A very few manufacturers make decent ones, like Panasonic,
Papst, Comair, a few Sunons and Deltas are passible.

Any serious design needing longest fan life uses dual ball
bearing fans if at all possible.

That's backwards. Fluid dynamic bearings last many times longer
than ball bearings.

There is no reputable source to back up your claim. Even
the premium fan manufacturers themselves acknowledge
otherwise

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835185006

Sony fluid dynamic bearing 120 mm case fan. Has a 15,000 our
lifespan.

15,000 hour?

While that IS what the product page says, it's funny!

The funny part is you are clueless about fans. If you'd had
a clue, you would have realized that 15,000 hours is an
incredibly LOW lifespan for a fan, that the lifespan
projection for that product was supposed to be 150,000
hours.

They can make this questionable lifespan rating because of
two factors:

1) Assume ideal operating condition. IE- low heat
2) They base it on the low RPM. Usually fan manufacturers
spec a family of fans, including those with much higher RPM,
while the higher RPM fans have a lower actual lifespan than
the lower RPM of the same model. Similarly, any crap fan
can be taken out of context, selectively focusing on the
lowest RPM model and then suggesting a longer lifespan than
it actually has.




http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186008

Arctic Cooling fluid dynamic bearing 120 mm case fan. Comes with a
six-year warranty.


That doesn't mean it has a longer lifespan, it means they've
overpriced it enough to offset any potential RMA issues. Do
you realize just how little a sleeve fan costs in volume?
It is trivial to them to replace it free, the shipping cost
is multiple times as much, but putting interest on their
profit, they can cover that too. Further, six years is
lower than the expected lifespan of a system.


Panasonic is a major manufacturer of fluid dynamic bearing fans, for
many years.

Yes, I'd already mentioned them as an exception. They do
NOT rate their fluid dynamic bearing fans as having a higher
lifespan than their dual ball bearing fans.

BTW, do us all a favor and stop with the nonsense about
"fluid dynamic bearings", as they are SLEEVE BEARINGS and
any other term is a senseless marketing gimmick.




so you're either quite ignorant and stupid for
drawing a conclusion while ignorant, or just trolling.

More like teaching you a lesson.

You have enough ego to get your system's cooling into a bind
but nowhere near enough experience to teach.



I won't hold my breath waiting for citations you will never provide.

Don't you mean that you're just ignorant?

Seriously, you started a disagreement about fans yet you
think we need to provide a spec when you could have easily
read it yourself from any of the major manufacturers if you
had ever been to their websites and read the datasheets.

If it were new information, it'd be "news", but the only
thing new is that we became aware how ignorant you are about
fans. Anyone and their brother has known dual ball bearing
fans are at least as long lived, sometimes MUCH longer
lived.

These products you cite haven't even existed long enough for
you to pretend to have any experience with their actual
lifespans. It is impossible for you to have experience with
them, whether their projections actually hold true. So
you're an armchair quarterback who read marketing blurbs,
believed them, and didn't ever bother to test anything
yourself.

This troll apparently really does not know the difference between a
sleeve bearing and a fluid dynamic bearing.


Path: newssvr13.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm04.news.prodigy. com!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon 06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!border1.nntp.dca.g iganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.insightbb.com!news.insightbb.com.PO STED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:06:54 -0500
From: kony spam spam.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt. comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.computer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.ch ips
Subject: Why Pentium?
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:08:42 -0400
Reply-To: spam spam.com
Message-ID: 9ri2c29kns2rvi4ocrulmli1s5hdq1rkoe 4ax.com
References: 4hb9hrF1qpn08U1 individual.net a361b21d9h02olr8bbispuosrh9jodrfim 4ax.com 4hbl1aF1qlql5U1 individual.net icq9b2ldci81q6es9jupvemokrrhprshee 4ax.com 4hkr8hF2bseU1 individual.net kHNvg.4362$oj5.1511399 news.siol.net Xns9806854A4F3580123456789 207.115.17.102 2jSvg.4371$oj5.1512740 news.siol.net Xns9806ABC3D3F3B0123456789 207.115.17.102 qod0c29i4eqs0t0gtffi4kei8orb2rvqma 4ax.com ME6wg.4402$oj5.1521099 news.siol.net Xns980799067A16D0123456789 207.115.17.102
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 92
NNTP-Posting-Host: 74.129.166.247
X-Trace: sv3-DOrT5fLIMg8VhVX/5z48WlVluskWMmFBnuGdH7+MP0bDpjUgdtm1oMeLXomCMG6pkH 0/uD2t3GcFAQ8!r38tJJtrTbKuBJZaQQt8IAuQvBByjuXI1KbQMU xOK56f8BXz1wAEQM2SZCsO8ttHs4bake4eTTJ1!Bi5fnB7VyT7 8Sg==
X-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.32
Xref: prodigy.net alt.comp.hardwa314738 alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt:223712 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:471606 alt.computer:270406 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:460768

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:02:34 GMT, John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

Jure Sah admin thought-beacon.net wrote:

kony pravi:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:53:06 GMT, John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:


My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Whatever.

Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk.

I second that.

That makes two trolls with no citations.



We aren't burdened with countering anyone's ignorance, it
would never end. This is another example of common
knowledge, that which any competent engineer or system
integrator has know since the beginning and believe me,
they'd love to shave some $ off the costs if there weren't
the detractions, especially when sleeve bearing fans have
significantly lower high pitched noise.

So you can't be bothered to find any information yourself,
only a product listing? Do you believe all product
listings? How about a $15 600W PSU with one of those fluid
dynamic blahblahblah in it, are those good too because they
wrote some lofty specs?

Sorry, there comes a point where you have to have some
experience instead of just repeating marketing by gypsy
companies selling PC parts they dont' even make.

What might we Google for a citation? How about;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...leeve+bearings

VERY FIRST GOOGLE HIT,
http://www.currentsolutions.com/know...sleevefans.htm
excerpt:

"The chart indicates that when temperatures ranged from 25
to 60 degrees C, ball-bearing fans on average outlasted
sleeve-bearing fans by 50 percent. When temperatures
exceeded 700 degrees C, ball-bearing fans ran for 45,000
hours, while sleeve-bearing fans became inoperable. Yet,
when the ambient temperatures were relatively low,
sleeve-bearing fans lasted as long as ball-bearing fans."

Since any normal system will be in that 25-60C range, we can
conclude this is one citation.

SECOND HIT,
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=193
excerpts;

"Ball bearings... most important for our situation - long
life" "With proper lubrication sleeve bearings will provide
performance and service on par with that of their ball
bearing counterparts. If left alone for a long time, and run
at higher temperatures they will fail before the ball
bearings will."


------------------

So far we have the first two hits Google found. The trend
continues with practically EVERY link that discusses both
types. So it seems it is [entire world] vs [you]

So tell us, is it you [the one who doesn't make fans, hasn't
actually tested the fans you linked for they haven't even
existed as long as their spec'd lifespan, and doesn't even
use proper terms for sleeve bearing fans] that knows about
fans, or it is major website reviewers, fan manufacturers
themselves, engineers, and just about every possible 3rd
party?

Sorry but you are a lone advocate of them for lifespan
improvement and have no evidence besides a line of text
versus 'site after 'site after 'site.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:57:07 -0400, George Macdonald
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:11:22 -0400, kony wrote:

Hey Kony, since you seem to know so much about fans... what the hell is the
deal with those chipset coolers that have flakey fans? Some of them spin
at 7Krpm and last 6 months max. Is it even possible to make such small
fans move enough air and still last?


They're off-brand/low-quality, small diameter, thin, higher
RPM... essentially all the things that make for shorter
lifespan.

It's possible to make higher quality small fans but it'd
cost more. Even better would be reduction in necessary flow
by having a better hunk of metal under the fan, combined
with a 15-20mm thick fan of at least 50mm diameter.

Manufacturers aren't interested in lifespan beyond the
warranty period in most cases though, so the best course is
to replace whole 'sink-fan assembly or relube the fan (if a
sleeve bearing type) before it begins making noise so the
bearingway isn't chewed up and enlarged (so then whatever
lube is added, is even less likely to stay where it should.
Also once a fan has worn some a thicker lube will help keep
it in the bearing.




They're usually "buried frame" type and easily replaced but impossible to
find, even from distributors. I've been able to find a 45mm diameter
"bury-frame" fan for my GPU cooler at Directron but the 30mm versions
usually used on chipset coolers are just not available anywhere. Do you
know why?

Nope, beyond that the manufacturers of these low-end
products don't want to offer only a fan, instead a more
costly alternative.

Any ideas on where I might find a "quality" version?... or do
the mfrs prefer to sell with a hunk of metal for the extra $$?

I'd just replace the whole 'sink, or in some cases you can
put a normal full-framed fan on if you use longer screws.
It's a bit more difficult if the video card doesnt' have
clearance under it, but I always advise to leave an empty
slot under the video card anyway so there's less heat
buildup and/or better air intake-exhaust in cases where the
card exhausts out the rear through the mounting slot
bracket.

Ultimately the best solution depends on available space and
amount of heat that needs removed. I'd not try to use
another recessed fan if there wasn't a space constraint
requiring it.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:01:29 -0400, "hdrdtd"
wrote:

A little over 17 years? that should be long enough..




It's not reliable. All of the known premiere fan
manufacturers are more conservative with their ratings. So
we'd be contrasting multi billion dollar fan manufacturers
putting fans in mission critical systems from computers to
airplanes to hospital equipment), and on the other hand a
small PC manufacturer that doesn't make fans at all, merely
gets them from a third party.

Further, on the product page we see the following:

"MTBF: 150,000 hours
* 150,000 hours of MTBF is measured under the 25C (77F)
ambient temperature.
* MTBF of normal ball bearing Fan: 50,000 hours
* MTBF of normal sleeve bearing Fan: 20,000 hours "

These are clearly deceptive.

1) The MTBF is only at 25C and goes down quickly at higher
temp. It's not hard at all to have a higher temp, 25C is
about average room temp, not heated chassis air temp.

2) MTBF of a normal dual ball bearing fan is between
50-100K hours, so IF only one number is given it would be
75K. They fail to mention that as temp goes up and sleeve
bearing (including S-FDB type) MTBF goes down quickly, ball
bearing MTBF does not. In short, they're playing with the
numbers to suggest the product is better than it is. Beware
of companies that do this instead of providing ALL of the
information.

3) Their picture of the bearing is quite telling. There's
nothing special about it, it's merely a semi-sealed (until
it starts wearing) bearing with a larger oil reservoir than
some (again until it starts wearing, then there will be oil
loss as with any other).

Finally, a spec for MTBF for a bearing is only as good as
the load on it! If you take a *good* bearing and put a
poorly balanced fan assembly around it, or subject the force
in another uneven fashion, that MTBF rating is shot_to_hell.

A babbling troll who says that fluid dynamic bearings are the same
as sleeve bearings. Apparently the troll doesn't even know that
modern high-performance hard drives are made with fluid dynamic
bearings. Apparently this troll is just clueless.


Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy. com!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon 06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!border1.nntp.dca.g iganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.gig anews.com!nntp.insightbb.com!news.insightbb.com.PO STED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:32:37 -0500
From: kony spam spam.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt. comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.computer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.ch ips
Subject: Why Pentium?
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:33:31 -0400
Reply-To: spam spam.com
Message-ID: t5o2c2hon06p7c4kkj8fsmqm0ov9neos3i 4ax.com
References: 4hkr8hF2bseU1 individual.net kHNvg.4362$oj5.1511399 news.siol.net Xns9806854A4F3580123456789 207.115.17.102 2jSvg.4371$oj5.1512740 news.siol.net Xns9806ABC3D3F3B0123456789 207.115.17.102 qod0c29i4eqs0t0gtffi4kei8orb2rvqma 4ax.com Xns98073F2E715D30123456789 207.115.17.102 75k1c2d3k9r0k5g9hakhcgv4tn84udi8v3 4ax.com Xns980796E51DC2B0123456789 207.115.17.102 Xns9807A1DFF9CD10123456789 207.115.17.102 TMydnWvfHp6e3FzZnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d giganews.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 49
NNTP-Posting-Host: 74.129.166.247
X-Trace: sv3-ITukhXd6bE60Un3fa/ZaT2qwBcN1FZfLdF9dN5WknLjqqOYAadDMAeLut8FzrXjSjNSc HfIY2LXPTV/!NGv8aHfQemL0mdLju7QNi+67nqXLR90ElyNJ6XojQjqvvVHK8 jHdmwjcp59KU2iKlaPU0gaMONZF!XV+U4RPWqlqtDw==
X-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse insightbb.com
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.32
Xref: prodigy.net alt.comp.hardwa314747 alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt:223716 alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:471613 alt.computer:270411 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:460774

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:01:29 -0400, "hdrdtd"
hdrdtd comcast.net wrote:

A little over 17 years? that should be long enough..




It's not reliable. All of the known premiere fan
manufacturers are more conservative with their ratings. So
we'd be contrasting multi billion dollar fan manufacturers
putting fans in mission critical systems from computers to
airplanes to hospital equipment), and on the other hand a
small PC manufacturer that doesn't make fans at all, merely
gets them from a third party.

Further, on the product page we see the following:

"MTBF: 150,000 hours
* 150,000 hours of MTBF is measured under the 25C (77F)
ambient temperature.
* MTBF of normal ball bearing Fan: 50,000 hours
* MTBF of normal sleeve bearing Fan: 20,000 hours "

These are clearly deceptive.

1) The MTBF is only at 25C and goes down quickly at higher
temp. It's not hard at all to have a higher temp, 25C is
about average room temp, not heated chassis air temp.

2) MTBF of a normal dual ball bearing fan is between
50-100K hours, so IF only one number is given it would be
75K. They fail to mention that as temp goes up and sleeve
bearing (including S-FDB type) MTBF goes down quickly, ball
bearing MTBF does not. In short, they're playing with the
numbers to suggest the product is better than it is. Beware
of companies that do this instead of providing ALL of the
information.

3) Their picture of the bearing is quite telling. There's
nothing special about it, it's merely a semi-sealed (until
it starts wearing) bearing with a larger oil reservoir than
some (again until it starts wearing, then there will be oil
loss as with any other).

Finally, a spec for MTBF for a bearing is only as good as
the load on it! If you take a *good* bearing and put a
poorly balanced fan assembly around it, or subject the force
in another uneven fashion, that MTBF rating is shot_to_hell.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:40:37 GMT, John Doe
wrote:

A babbling troll who says that fluid dynamic bearings are the same
as sleeve bearings. Apparently the troll doesn't even know that
modern high-performance hard drives are made with fluid dynamic
bearings. Apparently this troll is just clueless.


Clueless one, if I didn't know that I wouldn't have ALREADY
MENTIONED IT IN THIS THREAD.

I'll be content letting you pay a premium for crap generic
fans though, whatever makes you happy.