Why Pentium?

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:42:02 +0200, Jure Sah
wrote:

kony pravi:
If you have a lot running at incorrect (per user's needs)
process priority, then it's somewhat true, and mostly false,
because gen-purpose OS can easily be very snappy. Win9x
Lite, Win2k, even WinXP if you whittle away at it for
awhile.
I don't set process priorities on a desktop machine, nor do I
recommend that anyone else do so.

Sure, but the apps themselves can.
Actually it can be a benefit, if for example you wanted to
apply some filters and capture to MPEG4 while using a
system, it'll be good to give that enough priority.

Nearly all modern OSs are rather unsuitable for signal processing.

Nonsense.

They may be sub-optimal, but we're not doing one hardcoded
task on a PC, the versatility is important too. Unsuitable
in this context would not apply as they certainly can and do
get the job done.

Their
internal system for sharing CPU time amongst programs is inefficient
when you run processes that need a lot of CPU in a fluid manner
alongside those who need little. That's why today you have buffers
everywhere you look.

Yes they're not "as" efficient as they could be, but that is
the nature of a multipurpose system. It couldn't work any
other way and be versatile enough, and inexpensive enough,
to do so many jobs.




Your 5 settings of Windows priority will simply not let you OR your
system provide all programs with the optimal share of CPU power. You'd
need the OS doing that for you automatically if you wanted it to work.

Sure it will, most programs don't need more than a *normal*
priority level, they can sit in the background. If the
workload is so high that multiple realtime activities can't
be done, this is a case that would be a problem for any type
of hardware design, not just a PC.

kony spam spam.com wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:53:06 GMT, John Doe jdoe
usenetlove.invalid wrote:



My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap
fan, or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems
started, or maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Whatever.




Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk.

Says who?

A very few manufacturers make decent ones, like Panasonic, Papst,
Comair, a few Sunons and Deltas are passible.

Any serious design needing longest fan life uses dual ball bearing
fans if at all possible.

That's backwards. Fluid dynamic bearings last many times longer than
ball bearings.








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Subject: Why Pentium?
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A troll who needs to provide citations instead of babbling.


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From: Jure Sah admin thought-beacon.net
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Subject: Why Pentium?
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John Doe pravi:
kony pravi:
ALL P3s BOXED FANS DEVELOP BEARING WHINE IN MONTHS.
Buy the cooler fans that have double bearings.

Those purr smoothly even after years of use.
So do fluid dynamic bearing fans, but longer.
Are those those that don't really have a bearing but only a pocket
of fluid taped in?

Sounds like a troll,

Tell me, is everything that you disagree with a troll to you?

considering you pretend to have experience with
them. They are called "fluid bearings" or "fluid dynamic bearings".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_bearing

Sounds like quite what I had in mind.

They last about a month as far as my experience goes. The upper
side of the bearing is unprotected, which means that surrounding
dust (attracted by the electric charge of the fan engine) can have
direct contact with the fluid. Once there, the dust turns the
fluid glue-solid and the fan comes to a sticky stop, until you
remove the fluid with some kind of ethanol-based solution. Then it
spins again, but with no real bearing.

My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Or maybe you're looking for valid excuses to proove yourself right. All
I'm saying is that the fluid bearing is unsuitable for a microchip
cooling fan and thus do not last long. I have both the experience and
the theory to proove it.

I have seen these fluid bearings in many CPU fans, graphic card fans and
some slot fans. The general characteristics are always the same: The
tiny circular circuit board that manages the magnets that keep the fan
spinning is set directly atop the bearing, the axis is led trough a hole
in the circuit board, the fluid bearing being located inside the plastic
casing supporting the tiny circuit board. The underside of this plastic
casing is taped over with a factory sticker to seal the fluid inside the
bearing. The axis is terminated on this side with a small metal ring
embedded in a shallow gap near the end of the axis, which is floating in
the fluid and is there to prevent the axis from being pulled out of the
bearing vertically.

The upper side of the bearing is thus not sealed shut, as that would be
impossible given the point that the axis needs to be able to rotate
freely. Air travels along the fan and at any point along the fan's
construction where the airflow is slowed down, dust accumulates. The
tiny circuit board's electrical contacts are bare, exposed and charged
with a ~12V electric charge, which is powering the fan. Dust is
attracted by the ionization and tiny dust particles find their way right
to the axis. Very slowly, over time, enough dust accumulates there and
along with the effects of the heat, the fluid turns into a glue-like
substance, preventing the axis from moving. At this point it is very
hard to rotate the fan even with your fingers and sometimes when it
cools off it becomes stuck solid.

Sometimes, you don't even need that as the glue on the back sticker no
longer seals it completely shut and that combined with the heat of the
cooling apparatus causes the fluid to leave the bearing.



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A troll who doesn't know what a fluid dynamic bearing is.


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From: kony spam spam.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt. comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.computer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.ch ips
Subject: Why Pentium?
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:07:53 -0400
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On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:06:10 GMT, John Doe
jdoe usenetlove.invalid wrote:

Jure Sah admin thought-beacon.net wrote:

kony pravi:
ALL P3s BOXED FANS DEVELOP BEARING WHINE IN MONTHS.

Buy the cooler fans that have double bearings.

Those purr smoothly even after years of use.



So do fluid dynamic bearing fans, but longer.

"Fluid dynamic bearing" is in itself just a nonsense
marketing term. They all fall into one of two categories,
ball bearing or sleeve. We can further divide into dual
ball, ball + sleeve, and certain types of sleeve designs but
overall the type of fluid bearings used in PC fans is low
quality rather than the high quality sealed bearings used in
hard drives.

I knew this troll was going to have a tough time with my simple
correction.


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Subject: Why Pentium?
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John Doe pravi:
Jure Sah admin thought-beacon.net wrote:

kony pravi:
If you have a lot running at incorrect (per user's needs)
process priority, then it's somewhat true, and mostly false,
because gen-purpose OS can easily be very snappy. Win9x
Lite, Win2k, even WinXP if you whittle away at it for
awhile.
I don't set process priorities on a desktop machine, nor do I
recommend that anyone else do so.
Sure, but the apps themselves can.
Actually it can be a benefit, if for example you wanted to
apply some filters and capture to MPEG4 while using a
system, it'll be good to give that enough priority.

Your 5 settings of Windows priority

In Windows XP, it's 6 settings.

In any Linux or UNIX it is 20 settings (it's called "Nice", not
"Priority" tho). And in any real-time OS there are no settings as the OS
fine-tunes the priorities automatically at the precision of the CPU clock.

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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:12:38 GMT, John Doe
wrote:

kony spam spam.com wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:53:06 GMT, John Doe jdoe
usenetlove.invalid wrote:



My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap
fan, or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems
started, or maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Whatever.




Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk.

Says who?



Anyone that's had a few years experience dealing with failed
fans.


A very few manufacturers make decent ones, like Panasonic, Papst,
Comair, a few Sunons and Deltas are passible.

Any serious design needing longest fan life uses dual ball bearing
fans if at all possible.

That's backwards. Fluid dynamic bearings last many times longer than
ball bearings.

There is no reputable source to back up your claim. Even
the premium fan manufacturers themselves acknowledge
otherwise so you're either quite ignorant and stupid for
drawing a conclusion while ignorant, or just trolling.

John Doe pravi:
I knew this troll was going to have a tough time with my simple
correction.

What exactly makes me a troll here?

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kony pravi:
Nearly all modern OSs are rather unsuitable for signal processing.

Nonsense.

They may be sub-optimal, but we're not doing one hardcoded
task on a PC, the versatility is important too. Unsuitable
in this context would not apply as they certainly can and do
get the job done.

You might want to read up on the fact that 9600 baud on computers is no
longer 9600 baud and not only in multitasking systems. It has to do with
the point that all modern OS's CPU time scheduling mechanisms are
incompetent. It's not like 9600 baud is something the hardware could not
manage, it's the point that the software's triggers and events misfire
by design.

Their
internal system for sharing CPU time amongst programs is inefficient
when you run processes that need a lot of CPU in a fluid manner
alongside those who need little. That's why today you have buffers
everywhere you look.

Yes they're not "as" efficient as they could be, but that is
the nature of a multipurpose system. It couldn't work any
other way and be versatile enough, and inexpensive enough,
to do so many jobs.

Yes, it could. The theory was tested and the result prooven. Read the
"Sythesis OS" whitepaper for details.

In short, it is possible to make an OS's CPU time scheduler
automatically detect how much CPU time and when a generic program needs
to process it's input signal at the actual data rate.

Your 5 settings of Windows priority will simply not let you OR your
system provide all programs with the optimal share of CPU power. You'd
need the OS doing that for you automatically if you wanted it to work.

Sure it will, most programs don't need more than a *normal*
priority level, they can sit in the background. If the
workload is so high that multiple realtime activities can't
be done, this is a case that would be a problem for any type
of hardware design, not just a PC.

Modern computers have more than enough CPU power to provide for all the
needs simultaneously, it's all about the OS not doing things flexibly
enough.

If you want a good example of the catastrophic state that that CPU time
scheduler in Windows is in, use a program that counts how much CPU time
it gets, run only it and Windows, then wiggle your mouse around the
Start button area and see the user program suddenly getting way more CPU
time than before.

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John Doe pravi:
A troll who needs to provide citations instead of babbling.

Citations?

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kony pravi:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:53:06 GMT, John Doe
wrote:


My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

Whatever.

Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk.

I second that.

The packaging for fans usually comes with preprinted text in the
following sequence:
[ ] Fluid bearing
[ ] Sleeve bearing
[ ] Ball bearing

....the sequence is always used to indicate worst to best. Fluid bearings
die soon, Sleeve bearings sometimes develop rattling, Ball bearings are
the best choice.

At work, I service very high quality high pressure pumps. They contain
only the best everything and they use double ball bearings everywhere.


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