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#21
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
"mike" wrote in message ...
wrote: mike wrote: Supply and demand. If your watch kept bad time, you'd send it back. If your computer keeps bad time, you'll reset the clock and bitch about it on the internet. I'm looking for a techical explanation. Very often, the economic or political considerations dwarf any technical consideration. The technical explanation is that they do what's cheap. Wishing for a grand technical reason won't make it so. mike You seem to be saying curiosity is a worthless trait. I bet you're a republican. |
#22
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
In article ,
Andy Cuffe wrote: On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:25:49 GMT, Don Bruder wrote: Dunno if it's still true in PC-land - I've been living in a Mac world for a LONG time now - but when I was playing with them years ago, the I've always wondered why the batteries in macs run down so quickly. I rarely see a PC newer than 10 years old with a bad battery, but I consistently see 3-5 year old macs with totally dead clock batteries. I'm not absolutely certain on that myself, though many explanations have been put forth over the years, with the one I think is probably "the real situation" being that Macs (A) Don't cut the battery out of the circuit when powered up and (B) the battery isn't just keeping the RTC running, but also keeping a chunk of memory (which we call "PRAM" here in Mac-land - holds various fairly-to-really critical information) alive. Macs even have a much larger (and more expensive) lithium cell than most PCs. I've seen a few 15 year old 486's with the same type and brand battery used by apple that still measures full voltage. I don't know for certain about measured voltage, but I've only actually *NEEDED* (as opposed to "shotgunning" a startup issue) to replace one battery in my stops to count Hmmm... I guess that would be about 8 Macs over the last 15 years or so. That was in a Performa 637CD that I picked up at a thrift store for ten bucks. The machine I'm typing on, a PowerMac 7500, came to me secondhand also, and as far as I have any way to know, it's still running on the factory-installed battery - 10+ years since it came off the line. -- Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd for more info |
#23
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
Mike Foss wrote:
"mike" wrote in message ... wrote: mike wrote: Supply and demand. If your watch kept bad time, you'd send it back. If your computer keeps bad time, you'll reset the clock and bitch about it on the internet. I'm looking for a techical explanation. Very often, the economic or political considerations dwarf any technical consideration. The technical explanation is that they do what's cheap. Wishing for a grand technical reason won't make it so. mike You seem to be saying curiosity is a worthless trait. Nope, I'm saying insisting on technical explanations for economic decisions is a worthless trait. Anybody with a wrist likely understands that it's possible to keep accurate time. If computer users rated it high in their purchase decision, you'd see very accurate clocks. It's all about the Benjamins... I bet you're a republican. I'll check my voter registration and get back to you. mike -- Wanted, Serial cable for Dell Axim X5 PDA. Return address is VALID but some sites block emails with links. Delete this sig when replying. FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK htremovethistp://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
#24
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
"mike" wrote in message ...
Mike Foss wrote: "mike" wrote in message ... wrote: mike wrote: Supply and demand. If your watch kept bad time, you'd send it back. If your computer keeps bad time, you'll reset the clock and bitch about it on the internet. I'm looking for a techical explanation. Very often, the economic or political considerations dwarf any technical consideration. The technical explanation is that they do what's cheap. Wishing for a grand technical reason won't make it so. mike You seem to be saying curiosity is a worthless trait. Nope, I'm saying insisting on technical explanations for economic decisions is a worthless trait. Anybody with a wrist likely understands that it's possible to keep accurate time. If computer users rated it high in their purchase decision, you'd see very accurate clocks. File that one under D for DUH. The OP was asking for a technical explanation, and so far the responses have been enlightening. Well, except for yours. |
#25
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:51:12 -0400, Impmon wrote:
Why do the battery powered clocks in personal computers tend to keep worse time than quartz watches, even the $1 ones? The computer batteries measure fine, at least 3.15V. I thought that the problem was temperature swings in the computers (25-38C), but a couple of cheapo watches taped inside the computers kept better time. That question have been around for more than 20 years and probably longer. Even one PC magazine reported a major branded PC that used to cost $2,000 couldn't keep time as well as a $5 watch from Kmart (not exact quote but similiar to that) The OS could check via internet at regular intrevials to make correction to the clock but that is if the PC does have internet connection at all. http://www.tucows.com/downloads/Wind...Synchronizers/ |
#26
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
Mike Foss wrote:
"mike" wrote in message ... Mike Foss wrote: "mike" wrote in message ... wrote: mike wrote: Supply and demand. If your watch kept bad time, you'd send it back. If your computer keeps bad time, you'll reset the clock and bitch about it on the internet. I'm looking for a techical explanation. Very often, the economic or political considerations dwarf any technical consideration. The technical explanation is that they do what's cheap. Wishing for a grand technical reason won't make it so. mike You seem to be saying curiosity is a worthless trait. Nope, I'm saying insisting on technical explanations for economic decisions is a worthless trait. Anybody with a wrist likely understands that it's possible to keep accurate time. If computer users rated it high in their purchase decision, you'd see very accurate clocks. File that one under D for DUH. The OP was asking for a technical explanation, and so far the responses have been enlightening. Well, except for yours. There is no technical explanation except that the technology that is being used does not guarantee accurate clocks. If you do the math, you'll uncover the fact that a wris****ch is phenomenally accurate compared to a RTC crystal. I haven't been responsible for a computer design since 1989. Back in the day, the philosophy was, "design for the center of the statistical distribution and fix it in software." Fortunately, UINX was smart enough to do time correction. I haven't been responsible for a frequency counter design group since 1975. Back in the day, the philosophy was, "use the cheapest timebase that guaranteed the specified accuracy." I've had motherboards where they saved a nickel by leaving off the two caps on the Xtal. Adding the caps helped, but "net time" fixed it in software. Are we seeing a trend yet? You can get any accuracy you're willing to pay for. Computer users have voted with their wallets for "lousy". I don't remember ever seeing a specification for real time clock accuracy on a motherboard. So if the clock ticks, it's in spec. Statistically, you'll sometimes get one that's unacceptable and some of those will get bitched about on the internet. It's the same reason that sometimes your Ford won't run right. You're the Chinese engineer. Go tell the bean counter that you want to add 20 cents worth of parts to adjust the clock frequency, add $4000 worth of capital equipment to each production station, a week of additional production line time to setup and program the equipment, 30 seconds of operator time to each board test and decrease the overall yield. It really is all about the Benjamins. Let me restate it in technical terms. You get what you pay for, if you're lucky. And yes, my motherboard keeps very good time (but still not anywhere near as good as my wris****ch). It's not because the design is different from any other motherboard design. It's because all the variables conspired to keep good time. I got lucky. Benjamins!!! mike -- Wanted, Serial cable for Dell Axim X5 PDA. Return address is VALID but some sites block emails with links. Delete this sig when replying. FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK htremovethistp://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
#27
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
wrote in message ups.com... Date: 26 Oct 2005 15:03:04 -0700 Why do the battery powered clocks in personal computers tend to keep worse time than quartz watches, even the $1 ones? The computer batteries measure fine, at least 3.15V. I thought that the problem was temperature swings in the computers (25-38C), but a couple of cheapo watches taped inside the computers kept better time. Not one single person has mentioned that their computer keeps great time. My first personal computer was back in '81 and it didn't even sport a clock. Today I have collected about 16 computers (most of them are in the closet). But the majority of them keeps very good time. Some haven't been fired up in years, and it is really rare to find one off more than 5 minutes. So I am at least one user who has been quite happy with my computer clocks. ______________________________________________ Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD & Windows 2000) -- written and edited within Word 2000 |
#28
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
Hi!
I've often wondered the same thing...also why a $9 alarm clock will have provision for battery backup, but $200 VCR (back when VCRs were $200) needed to be rweset with each blip in the mains voltage. Hmmm...not all of them do. I've got a Panasonic VCR that will hold the time for a couple of hours after a power failure and a Sony that seems to be good for a few days. (Of course, both are 'mid-range' machines and the Sony might qualify as lower high end equipment.) I also have a Panasonic time-lapse VCR that has a NiCad battery in it. I know it will the clock for at least two weeks. The manual says it could last for a month. William |
#29
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
Hi!
Is that a DS1387 or something else? I've got some microchannel-based computers that use that module. None have died yet but I know it is a matter of time. How did you get the module open? Do you have pictures? William |
#30
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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?
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