ARGOSY - HD363N - Network Storage

HalRogers,
I still believe the text file end-of-file issue has more to do with
the Argosy/Tritton NAS.

Like you, I had tried many applications, and as I previously posted,
was able to reproduce the outcome we all have verified with Notepad
also with Open Office. Tonight, I verified that again. Using the
exact same procedure in all applications, I saw the same outcome with
Notepad, OpenOffice 1.1.3 and OpenOffice 2.0. Now, its possible that
all these applications close the file in a manner that creates an
issue ... but I don't believe that to be the case. My reasoning is
that I cannot reproduce this end of file issue under any other
circumstances.

I have tried ALL of the following (which took some time), and none of
these configurations cause any problems.

- IDE connected hard disks formated to NTFS and FAT32 running Windows
XP
- USB connected hard disk formated to NTFS and FAT32 running Windows
XP.
- taking the FAT32 formated hard disk out of the Argosy/Tritton NAS,
IDE connecting it in the WinXP PC, and writing directly to it.
- writing to a FAT32 formated USB Flash drive connected to PC running
WinXP.
- writing to a NTFS formated hard disk being shared out by another
WinXP PC.
- writing to a EXT3 formated hard disk being shared out by a Linksys
NSLU2 NAS.
- writing to an EXT3 formated hard disk connected to a WinXP via USB
and interfaced to via EXT2 file driver for windows (see
http://www.fs-driver.org/ if interested).

The ONLY place I can create this end of file error with these
applications is when saving the file to the Argosy/Tritton NAS.

If the issue has to do with how Notepad, OpenOffice 1.1.3 and
OpenOffice 2.0 all close their files, how is it I can only produce
the issue when saving the file to the Argosy/Tritton NAS?

General Request for Help
Since the 06-1013 firmware came out, I've had serious issues with the
NAS copying large directories to it. For example, a directory with
which I regularly have this issue is: 2.07 GB in size, has 6,819
files, and 848 directories ... it is a collection of program install
files, so the files range in size from very small to many tens of
MB.

When I attempt to copy this directory from the PC to NAS, at some
point along the way, I receive a Windows popup error window that says
"Error Copying File to Folder", "Cannot copy filename: The
specified network name is no longer available." Now comes the
seriousness of the issue, at this point the NAS can become
unresponsive. I can no longer access files on its disk, I cannot
access its web page, I cannot turn it off, I cannot reset it by
holding the power button in for a long time. I eventually have to
unplug the unit.

And, if I repeat this several times, it never seems to have the issue
with the same file. When I get the Windows popup error window, every
time there is a different file name in it.

And, it isn't every time that the NAS becomes completely locked up,
requring the plug to be pulled. Sometimes I can turn it off by just
hitting the power button.

Would anyone be willing to try copying a large directory a few times,
like the one I described, to see if you might generate the same
outcome?

I'm running Windows XP from the PC that I'm copying the files from.

If I look at the log file on the disk in the NAS, it doesn't show any
signs of an error or issue. The last entry in the log file is its
attempt to write the named in the popup window.

This is happening with both Argosy and Tritton devices.

Another Tritton/Argosy Like NAS w/ USB?
I noticed that CoolMax has a new Network Attached Storage device on
the market, model
CN-550.

Reading through its manual, it appears to have functionality very,
very similar to the Trittona and Argosy devices. They don't have any
firmware updates listed on their site, so I can't yet compare the
firmwares.

What's unique about this device is that it also incorporates a USB
interface to the drive. That's a feature I would use.

Fixuser:

I got the same kind of error when I tried to copy a DVD-R full of my
install files to the NAS, almost 4 gb. I was using the 6-1013
firmware and Windows 98.

One other thing I noticed was while it was copying the DVD, there
would be furious network activity for about 10 seconds, then it would
pause for several seconds before resuming.

Also:
There is unpopulated artwork for a USB connector on the circuit board
of my HD363N. I was looking at it because I am thinking of mounting
the board and a removable drive bay in an old external 5 1/4 SCSI
case so I can make use of all my old drives without buying a separate
NAS for each.

There is a difference between file closing on a drive connected on a
Windows platform (all of the examples that worked) and a file closing
across a network to a different operating environment (SAMBA).

There may indeed be a simple fix in SAMBA to deal with windows apps
that do not close files the way Word, UltraEdit, Excel, and other
apps do it.

Windows does not have a single standard for closing files, which is
nice I suppose, it gives the developer flexibility to choose the
standard instead of following a single one.

The reason for the problem is related to the allocation of file space
in chunks. There are always extra bytes at the end of a file, in the
same cluster, so determining the end of file has to follow either the
ASCII standard (an EOF "MARK") or the binary standard (setting the
filesize in the directory entry). The extra bytes used to be used by
some developers to stick extra code on the end of an EXE file, then
close the file and alter the directory entry to a new size, leaving
the extra bytes on the disk, but they would not get copied if the
user moved the file rather than re-install it (since COPY honors the
filesize in the directory when determining when to stop copying).

The errors noted are all fixable if the directory entry is changed to
reflect the actual number of bytes in the usable content of the file
-- notice the errors reported are always due to extra characters
appearing AFTER the expected END OF FILE. Bytes that are on the disk,
but should not be read into the application, but ARE read in because
the filesize is wrong.

Yes, it would be nice to see this fixed, but it's being caused by the
way the files are closed and the directory is (not) updated.

As to problems with DVD ISO images:

DVD-R ISO images may exceed the 32-bit FAT limitation of 4 GB (or
thereabouts). Microsoft describes the FAT-32 limitations for file
size as "You cannot create a file larger than (2^32)-1 bytes (this is
one byte less than 4 GB) on a FAT32 partition" - since DVD images may
be more like 4.7 GB, it's possible that you are exceeding the FAT-32
limit.

Hal

Hal,
There is a difference between file closing on a drive connected on
a
Windows platform (all of the examples that worked) and a file
closing
across a network to a different operating environment (SAMBA).

Yes I know. That's why I also included results referencing a 'file
server' and the 'Linksys NSLU2 NAS' in my previous posts. But, I
didn't make that very clear in presenting details about it.

The NSLU2 is a network attached storage device that's running a linux
kernel with samba. It can support disks formated with EXT3 (native
to the device), FAT32, or NTFS (a new addition to its abilities).
I've been running this device on my network for a few weeks now. If
I edit a text file stored on the NSLU2 using Notepad (or OpenOffice),
I cannot create the same issue that occurs on the Argosy/Tritton
device. And, I've tried this with disks on the NSLU2 formated to
EXT3, FAT32, and NTFS. So, with this network device running Linux
not causing any issues, why should Notepad have a problem with the
Argosy/Tritton devices ... again, I believe its problem in the file
storage on the device, not the Notepad or OpenOffice programs.

And, following up to:[quote:cfcc62c488]As to problems with DVD ISO
images:[/quote:cfcc62c488] I don't believe
[b:cfcc62c488]segbert[/b:cfcc62c488] was implying he copied an image
of the DVD to the NAS, but more so the contents of the DVD to the NAS
... suggesting he had lots of files on the DVD like I had described in
the issue.

[b:cfcc62c488]segbert[/b:cfcc62c488],
Thanks for checking that out ... very helpful!!

Well, I've given up on the Argosy/Tritton device.

Even with the latest 06-1013 firmware release, I've not been able to
get a reliable file server. I've waited patiently for 6 months, but
cannot wait any longer to get a good file server up and running.
Thus, I've returned to investigating other devices available, and
have now setteled into using the Linksys NSLU2.

The NSLU2 has matured over time, and now supports EXT3, FAT32 and NTFS
disk formats. The security features of the device (password protected
storage, user allocated space, for example) cannot be used with FAT32
and NTFS formats; all the data is public on these types of disks.
But, this is the first NAS device I've seen that can both read and
write FAT32 and NTFS.

I will caution that performance with NTFS disks is not as good as
FAT32 and EXT3.

I've seen many postings on the internet complaining about disks
formatted to EXT3 being useless to PC users. Well, I've found two
EXT2/EXT3 drivers for Windows that work very well. I've had no
issues reading and writing to EXT3 disk on my PC. So, I have no
concerns all the features of the NSLU2 with EXT3 formatted disks. If
I need to work with those disks, I can easily.

Everything I tried to do with the Argosy/Tritton devices I have been
able to do with the NSLU2 ... including keeping my Outlook *.pst
files on the network. I've been running with my *.pst file on the
NSLU2 for more than a week now without a single issue.

The NSLU2 is slightly slower in write speed, and comparable in read
speed. Given how the NSLU2 has been able to do everything I wanted,
this slight speed loss it trivial in my eyes.

dilettante you may be interested to know
that others (at www.nslu2-linux.org) have been able to load a
slimserver onto the NSLU2 ... FYI.

As for the XBox users out there, I believe the NSLU2 properly supports
SMB and works with the XBox. If not, I have seen someone at the
nslu2-linux group post about adding a package to the NSLU2 to work
specifically with the Xbox
Link

I image I'll still check back in now and again ... don't know why, but
maybe after trying my best and contributing what time I could, I'm
curious if they ever live up to their potential.

Good Luck everyone!

fixuserwrote:
Well, I've given up on the Argosy/Tritton device.

Even with the latest 06-1013 firmware release, I've not been able to
get a reliable file server. I've waited patiently for 6 months, but
cannot wait any longer to get a good file server up and running.
Thus, I've returned to investigating other devices available, and
have now setteled into using the Linksys NSLU2.

The NSLU2 has matured over time, and now supports EXT3, FAT32 and
NTFS disk formats. The security features of the device (password
protected storage, user allocated space, for example) cannot be used
with FAT32 and NTFS formats; all the data is public on these types of
disks. But, this is the first NAS device I've seen that can both read
and write FAT32 and NTFS.

I will caution that performance with NTFS disks is not as good as
FAT32 and EXT3.

I've seen many postings on the internet complaining about disks
formatted to EXT3 being useless to PC users. Well, I've found two
EXT2/EXT3 drivers for Windows that work very well. I've had no
issues reading and writing to EXT3 disk on my PC. So, I have no
concerns all the features of the NSLU2 with EXT3 formatted disks. If
I need to work with those disks, I can easily.

Everything I tried to do with the Argosy/Tritton devices I have been
able to do with the NSLU2 ... including keeping my Outlook *.pst files
on the network. I've been running with my *.pst file on the NSLU2 for
more than a week now without a single issue.

The NSLU2 is slightly slower in write speed, and comparable in read
speed. Given how the NSLU2 has been able to do everything I wanted,
this slight speed loss it trivial in my eyes.

dilettante you may be interested to
know that others (at www.nslu2-linux.org) have been able to load a
slimserver onto the NSLU2 ... FYI.

As for the XBox users out there, I believe the NSLU2 properly
supports SMB and works with the XBox. If not, I have seen someone at
the nslu2-linux group post about adding a package to the NSLU2 to work
specifically with the Xbox
Link

I image I'll still check back in now and again ... don't know why,
but maybe after trying my best and contributing what time I could,
I'm curious if they ever live up to their potential.

Good Luck everyone!

you've been a great asset to this forum and your hard work has helped
me a lot. Sad to see you go.

BTW - how much was that Linksys NAS? Where did you buy it?

Yes. I was referring to copying many files from a DVD-R to the NAS in
one operation. The smallest file was a few bytes, and the largest was
in the range of 1/2 gig.

fixuser:

I was initially also looking at one of the Linux based NASes (not the
Linksys one, but I don't remember exactly). The Tritton/Argosy had
the inherent drawback that it would not handle 4gb files, but a
review of the Linux one mentioned it would not handle file names
containing spaces. I never put spaces in my names, but a lot of
Windows stuff I might want to put out there does, especially MS
stuff, so I thought this was a deal breaker. (Plus I found my Tritton
on sale at Fry's for $50 after rebate) Will the NSLU2 handle spaces in
names?

I personally would be interested if you did report back on your
experiences with other units. I like my two HD363N type units very
much, but I don't feel confident yet using them for working storage,
such as the local copy of a web site, which gets edited a lot. I'm
going to hang in a little while longer, and in any event I can always
use them as simple file servers for bulk data storage. However, I may
eventually be willing to invest in a somewhat more expensive device
to house working data.

I bought two more HD363N cases and the latest ones seem to have
quieter fans, much quieter. Not sure if they were using sleeve
bearing fans and switched to ball bearing types, but there are ball
bearing 25x25x10mm fans available for less than $5 so I bought some
and the shipping was about $7 for the batch of fans.

My primary use of the devices is to setup FTP servers. The HD363 lets
you setup ports other than 21, which is helpful, and it supports both
Anonymous and Username/Password access, which isn't supported by some
SOHO NAS devices.

As to all the messages about EOF problems, it would be helpful to have
a list of applications that don't work. A list of apps that DO work
include Word for Windows, WordPad, Ultraedit, Edlin, Edit.

If you have Notepad, you have Wordpad. Try the "open with" Wordpad, do
the experiments described for Notepad, and you will find that the
filesize is correctly reported, and none of the extra characters
appear at the end of the file as they do in Notepad (because Notepad
file close doesn't cause the directory filesize to be updated).

Excel also works fine. Create a worksheet with 200 rows of 2 columns,
the row number and lots of Asterisks, save it. Close Excel. etc
etc.,
you will find that the directory entry (in the file properties)
properly reflects changes in the filesize, and inserting, deleting
rows does not produce the problem seen with Notepad.

I think the file closing problem is a Windows application issue as
much as anything, and using Notepad for editing text files --- well,
there are better text and other editors, that work correctly.
Notepad, unfortunately, isn't a very capable text editor and it
clearly has problems.

Hal