A dying HDD in a very old 15" MacBook Pro from 2008?

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Rod Speed wrote:

Yeah, the problem could well be outside the drive.

Not hard to try another drive in the machine and see if that fixes it tho.

Well, I would have to find another drive. I don't think I can just
pick any drive. Most of my spare drives are SATA and PATA 3.5" types. :P
I guess I could use an external USB drive, but that would be slower?
--
Quote of the Week: "Individually, ants are stupid. Together, they're brilliant." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

Ant wrote:

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage David Empson
wrote: ...
They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.

If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
download it.

Does Mac OS X v10.5.8 even have those or is that in the newer versions?

Newer. Your Name was complaining about the elimination of install media
in recent OS X versions, which started with 10.7 (Lion). The recovery
partition was introduced at the same time.

--
David Empson

Ant wrote:

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Rod Speed wrote:

Yeah, the problem could well be outside the drive.

Not hard to try another drive in the machine and see if that fixes it tho.

Well, I would have to find another drive. I don't think I can just
pick any drive.

Most SATA 2.5" drives will work, but note that the interface in an Early
2008 MacBook Pro is only 1.5 Gbps, so using a very fast hard drive or
fast SSD won't gain much. I've also encountered SSDs that work fine on 3
Gbps and 6 Gbps SATA but don't work at all on 1.5 Gbps SATA (tested
using an external drive dock). I haven't encountered any such problem
with 2.5" hard drives.

If it is a Late 2008 15-inch MacBook Pro, the SATA interface can do 3
Gbps. (The Late 2008 17-inch is also limited to 1.5 Gbps - it was a
short lived update to the previous generation, because the 17-inch
Unibody redesign wasn't ready until Early 2009.)

Most of my spare drives are SATA and PATA 3.5" types. :P
I guess I could use an external USB drive, but that would be slower?

Much slower. Real world limits on transfer rates mean you can only get
30 to 35 MB/s via USB 2.0, while SATA 1 can get up to 100 MB/s.

If just for testing it will work (albeit slowly), but I wouldn't
recommend relying on a USB boot drive long term, due to the risk of
accidental disconnection by bumping the cable.

--
David Empson

In article , David Empson
wrote:
Your Name wrote:
In article , Ant
wrote:
In alt.comp.periphs.hdd Your Name wrote:
...
First step is always simply to run the disk through Disk Utility and
see what that comes up with. Disk Utility may not be the best software
around, but it's certainly easier to "quickly" run a scan since it's
included with the OS on every Mac.

Mac OS X v10.5.8's Disk Utility seems to be stuck when verifying the Mac
HDD with an animated colorful pinwheel. Nothing seems to respond from
it. Is this normal? I wished I Macs had drive lights to see if it is
doing anything. I couldn't even open a Terminal to look around during
this. I'll let it run for now.

If you can't open anything else, then the computer has crashed and
needs rebooting.

That is probably the wrong explanation.

Verify Disk while booted from the volume being verified will typically
result in what appears to be a complete system freeze, because anything
attempting to write to the startup volume will be blocked. The block is
released once the verify is complete. Let it run.

If you're running Disk Utility off the same drive you're checking, then
it's possible that the app itself has been corrupted by the drive's
problems. It really needs Disk Utility to be run from another boot
drive (which is one of many reasons why it's disgusting that Apple no
longer supplies proper install media!)

They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.

If the drive is completely dead, that's of zero use. Even if it's not
completely dead, why would any sane person trust using an installer on
an already dodgy disk??



If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
download it.

If you don't have an internet connection or your internet is flakey /
datacapped, then you're screwed ... all for the cost of putting a $10
bootable USB stick with a full OS installer on it in the box. Instead
you have to go along to the local Apple repair centre and get them to
re-install the software at $100 per hour. :-\

(Yes, you can backup a downloaded installer, but first you have to
download it, plus I'm talking about more normal people who don't know
these things, rather than full-on computer nerds.)

"Ant" wrote in message
...
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Rod Speed
wrote:

Yeah, the problem could well be outside the drive.

Not hard to try another drive in the machine and see if that fixes it
tho.

Well, I would have to find another drive. I don't think I can just
pick any drive. Most of my spare drives are SATA and PATA 3.5" types. :P

Yeah, it would be easier if its one that fits.

I guess I could use an external USB drive, but that would be slower?

Not a useful test, you need to use one that uses the same controller
to see if the problem is in the controller and not the drive itself.

Your Name wrote:

In article , David Empson
wrote:
Your Name wrote:
In article , Ant
wrote:
In alt.comp.periphs.hdd Your Name wrote:
...
First step is always simply to run the disk through Disk Utility and
see what that comes up with. Disk Utility may not be the best software
around, but it's certainly easier to "quickly" run a scan since it's
included with the OS on every Mac.

Mac OS X v10.5.8's Disk Utility seems to be stuck when verifying the Mac
HDD with an animated colorful pinwheel. Nothing seems to respond from
it. Is this normal? I wished I Macs had drive lights to see if it is
doing anything. I couldn't even open a Terminal to look around during
this. I'll let it run for now.

If you can't open anything else, then the computer has crashed and
needs rebooting.

That is probably the wrong explanation.

Verify Disk while booted from the volume being verified will typically
result in what appears to be a complete system freeze, because anything
attempting to write to the startup volume will be blocked. The block is
released once the verify is complete. Let it run.

If you're running Disk Utility off the same drive you're checking, then
it's possible that the app itself has been corrupted by the drive's
problems. It really needs Disk Utility to be run from another boot
drive (which is one of many reasons why it's disgusting that Apple no
longer supplies proper install media!)

They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.

If the drive is completely dead, that's of zero use.

That's a moot point. If the drive is completely dead, Disk Utility is of
no help anwyay.

Even if it's not completely dead, why would any sane person trust using an
installer on an already dodgy disk??

If the problem is merely file system corruption (which is all that Disk
Utility can attempt to fix), then the recovery partition should be fine,
because it is not mounted in normal operation of the system.

If the disk is physically faulty in some way, Disk Utlity may not even
detect it. Disk Utility does NOT do any kind of full disk check (apart
from SMART, as reported by the drive). DU just verifies and/or repairs
directory structures, and possibly partition structures.

If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
download it.

If you don't have an internet connection or your internet is flakey /
datacapped, then you're screwed ...

Those in that position would be wise to plan ahead and have a Time
Machine backup (which if made using a directly connected drive is
bootable into a backup of the recovery partition), or a clone backup
which can be booted, or other solutions such as having a bootable OS X
installer they made themselves, or an installation of OS X on an
external drive.

all for the cost of putting a $10 bootable USB stick with a full OS
installer on it in the box.

An OS installer in the box with the computer would be of limited use for
Disk Utility, assuming the user is in the habit of upgrading their
operating system (which is true for the majority of Mac users in recent
years). An older Disk Utility should not be used to repair a volume
containng a newer OS X version.

The OS itself is no longer distributed physically, since Apple tried
selling a USB stick version of Lion (2011) and not enough people
bothered with it. They went download-only from Mountain Lion (2012).

I appreciate the fact that OS X upgrades have been free starting with
Mavericks (2013), which wouldn't be possible if Apple insisted on
supplying physical media for the shrinking proportion of Mac users who
wanted it.

Instead you have to go along to the local Apple repair centre and get them
to re-install the software at $100 per hour. :-\

What, no backup?

I do see one hole in the plan: those who chose to use a solution like
Apple's Time Capsule (or some other networked storage) to do Time
Machine backups, and don't have decent Internet, and didn't plan ahead
by having another bootable device. They have a backup but no way to
restore it.

In that case, they will have to go and visit a friend with decent
Internet, or an Apple Store (if available), or pay someone if no other
options remain.

(Yes, you can backup a downloaded installer, but first you have to
download it, plus I'm talking about more normal people who don't know
these things, rather than full-on computer nerds.)

I regularly deal with "normal people", and the most important thing I
try to get them to understand is the need for a backup of their
computer.

If they don't have one and their main drive completely dies, then how to
run Disk Utility is well down the list of problems.

--
David Empson

On 3/13/2016 8:53 AM, Ant wrote:
...internal HDD with SMARTReporter v2.7.3 (green and pass results
didn't trust them) with its old smartctl version since I couldn't find a
precompiled build that would work in an updated Mac OS X v10.5.8
(Leopard) (tried http://builds.smartmontools.org/'s oldest and newest
daily builds: "Operation could not be completed.
(com.apple.installer.pagecontroller error -1.) -- Couldn't open
'smartmontools-6.5...pkg" (is there a compiled build that exist?). Is
short test passed, but its long test failed as shown below:

Shouldn't you first extract+backup all data in the hard disk first?

Then just buy a new one to replace it?

--
@~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora release 23) Linux 4.4.3-300.fc23.x86_64
^ ^ 17:18:02 up 8 days 21:24 0 users load average: 1.00 1.04 1.09
�借貸! ��騙! ��交! �打交! �打劫! �自殺! 請考慮綜� (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa

Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

Shouldn't you first extract+backup all data in the hard disk first?

Then just buy a new one to replace it?

That would be way too easy...

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger wrote:

Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

Shouldn't you first extract+backup all data in the hard disk first?

Then just buy a new one to replace it?

That would be way too easy...

Are you trying to spoil the picnic?

In alt.comp.periphs.hdd David Empson wrote:
Ant wrote:

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage David Empson
wrote: ...
They don't need to supply install media: the recovery partition can be
booted and used to do a Verify/Repair on the main partition.

If you don't have a recovery partition then Internet Recovery can
download it.

Does Mac OS X v10.5.8 even have those or is that in the newer versions?

Newer. Your Name was complaining about the elimination of install media
in recent OS X versions, which started with 10.7 (Lion). The recovery
partition was introduced at the same time.

Thanks.
--
Quote of the Week: "Individually, ants are stupid. Together, they're brilliant." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.