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Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLocker NTFS?



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 25th 15, 07:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general
Jolly Roger[_3_]
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Posts: 70
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLockerNTFS?

On 2015-12-25, Ant wrote:
On 12/25/2015 10:00 AM, Alan Browne wrote:

Your prior reply to Paul, for example quotes what he said - but not who
said it.


Ah OK. Sorry. I was trying to clean thing up. Don't you have threading
to show them?


That's not the point. What you are doing is considered bad etiquette.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
  #12  
Old December 25th 15, 07:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLockerNTFS?

On 2015-12-25 13:22, Ant wrote:
On 12/25/2015 10:17 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-12-25 13:13, Ant wrote:
On 12/25/2015 10:00 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-12-25 12:42, Ant wrote:
In comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage Alan Browne
wrote:
You should leave attribution in posts.

Eh?

When you reply to a post, whatever content you leave from previous
posters should be identifiable to who wrote it. You tend to cut out
who
wrote what making it a pain in some cases to go read more of what that
poster wrote.

Your prior reply to Paul, for example quotes what he said - but not who
said it.

Ah OK. Sorry. I was trying to clean thing up. Don't you have threading
to show them?


Easier to just read the name in context.


OK.

Thanks.


--
"But I am somehow extraordinarily lucky, for a guy with ****ty luck."
..Harrison Ford, Rolling Stone - 2015-12-02
  #13  
Old December 25th 15, 07:36 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,alt.comp.periphs.hdd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general
Ant[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 756
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLockerNTFS?

On 12/25/2015 10:23 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-12-25 13:22, Ant wrote:
On 12/25/2015 10:17 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-12-25 13:13, Ant wrote:
On 12/25/2015 10:00 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2015-12-25 12:42, Ant wrote:
In comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage Alan Browne
wrote:
You should leave attribution in posts.

Eh?

When you reply to a post, whatever content you leave from previous
posters should be identifiable to who wrote it. You tend to cut out
who
wrote what making it a pain in some cases to go read more of what that
poster wrote.

Your prior reply to Paul, for example quotes what he said - but not
who
said it.

Ah OK. Sorry. I was trying to clean thing up. Don't you have threading
to show them?

Easier to just read the name in context.


OK.

Thanks.



--
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  #14  
Old December 26th 15, 12:31 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.hdd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general
Lewis[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLockerNTFS?

In message
Ant wrote:
I'm having problems with my 2 MS partitions in my external USB 2 TB WD
Green HDD. I wanted to have 2 encrypted partitions (W7 EE SP1's
BitLocker NTFS and HFS[Time Machine and manual Mac files]) and an
unencrypted FAT (tried both FAT32 and exFAT). I had no problems
(mak/creat)ing them.


You will not have problems either if you use separate drives.

What you are trying to do is doomed to fail.


--
And, btw, my face cannot go blue because I have no face, I am not like that...
--Dorayme, in a fit of nonsensical drivel
  #15  
Old December 27th 15, 04:21 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.hdd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general
Ant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 858
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLocker NTFS?

I'm having problems with my 2 MS partitions in my external USB 2 TB WD
Green HDD. I wanted to have 2 encrypted partitions (W7 EE SP1's
BitLocker NTFS and HFS[Time Machine and manual Mac files]) and an
unencrypted FAT (tried both FAT32 and exFAT). I had no problems
(mak/creat)ing them.


You will not have problems either if you use separate drives.


What you are trying to do is doomed to fail.


Thanks.
--
Quote of the Week: "Yeah, what's left of it. I was in the militia --
national guard... That's good! Wasn't any war any more than there's war
between men and ants." --stranger; "And we're eat-able ants. I found
that out... What will they do with us?" --Pierson from H.G. Wells' The
War of the Worlds
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
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\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
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  #16  
Old December 29th 15, 02:09 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.hdd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general
Ant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 858
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLocker NTFS?

OK, I messed around with this and figured the quickest way to reproduce
this issue between platforms after playing with issue more during my
free time.

I had problems erasing everything on the HDD with Mac OS X's Disk
Utility. It wouldn't even let me its remove partitions. I had to use
Windows 7's Disk Manage to manually delete all the (partition/volume)s
except its 200 MB EFI System Partition (not changeable?). I also noticed
it cannot make multiple partitions in a single shot like in Mac OS X's
Disk Utility since I had to make a big volume, shrink, make a smaller
volume, repeat.

Anyways, I used Mac OS X's Disk Utility to make 3 new partitions (HFS+ &
2 (ex or not)FAT [no NTFS option]). Everything looked fine when I wrote
text files and checked on both systems. Next, I tell Mac OS X's Disk
Utility to format that HFS+ with encryption. Everything was still OK in
Mac. I go to Windows and check, and things started having problem like
not seeing a FAT partition, files, etc. It seems like Apple is messing
up the partitions.

I am going to reverse in creating partitions manually and slowly with W7
first, go to Mac's Disk Utility to format an encrypted HFS, recheck,
BitLocker encrypt a NTFS partition, and then recheck to see their
results.

TO BE CONTINUED...


In comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage Ant wrote:
Hi.


I'm having problems with my 2 MS partitions in my external USB 2 TB WD
Green HDD. I wanted to have 2 encrypted partitions (W7 EE SP1's
BitLocker NTFS and HFS[Time Machine and manual Mac files]) and an
unencrypted FAT (tried both FAT32 and exFAT). I had no problems
(mak/creat)ing them.


The problem is that Mac OS X v10.10.5 (Yosemite) thinks I have 2 FAT
drives (only 1 should exist while other is NTFS (assuming cannot be read
due to its BitLocker encryption which is fine to me)). If I connect it
to a W7 laptop/notebook, then only FAT can be seen.


I tried reformatting the encrypted BitLocker NTFS to unencrypted FAT in
Mac OS X's Disk Utility which can be seen in Mac, but W7 does't see it.
I tried letting W7's Disk Management make this unallocated partition to
a new simple volume (NTFS or exFAT -- tried both), but it said "The
operation you selected will convert the selected basic disk(s) to
dynamic disk(s). If you convert the disk(s) to dynamic, you will not be
able to stat installed operating systems from any volume on the disk(s)
(except the current boot volume). Are you sure you want to continue?" I
tried Yes and its Virtual Disk Manager said "The operation is not
supported by the object."


I tried deleting all partitions and told Mac OS X's Disk Utility to
recreate the 3 partitions (unencrypted HFS+ & 2 MS FAT partitions) from
scratch. Everything was fine when I checked between machines. I told W7
to format a FAT partition into NTFS with BitLocker encryption. After it
was done, I rechecked with Mac OS X. Partitions were fine (yes, I know
Mac can't read BitLocker encryptions so that partition stays hidden). I
told Mac OS X to do a very long encrypted Time Machine backup and
manually copy some files into this encrypted HFS+ partition for hours.
After that, I went back to W7 and it can't see my BitLocker partition
(unallocated)!


http://i.imgur.com/tJ5wWz6.gif and http://i.imgur.com/KBwAEct.gif and
for my 2 screen (shot/capture)s from both machine with the same external
USB HDD connected.


What's going on? Does having 2 different encrypted partitions not work
with each other? Or am I doing something wrong?


Thank you in advance.

--
Quote of the Week: "Yeah, what's left of it. I was in the militia --
national guard... That's good! Wasn't any war any more than there's war
between men and ants." --stranger; "And we're eat-able ants. I found
that out... What will they do with us?" --Pierson from H.G. Wells' The
War of the Worlds
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
  #17  
Old December 29th 15, 04:09 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.hdd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general
Ant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 858
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLocker NTFS?

With the long and hard way. I did all the tedious partitioning in W7
(only NTFS though since FAT weren't offered)) first, then go back Mac OS
X to make a partition HFS+ with its encryption. I checked both machines.
No problems so far! I told W7 to encrypt a NTFS partition with its
BitLocker that took a while (no format with encryption option like Apple
does?). I rechecked with both machines. No problems. I reformatted the
unencrypted NTFS to exFAT in Mac OS X since W7 wouldn't let me. I
rechecked both machines, and no problems.

Right now, I'm writing a lot of data to both encrypted drives which will
take a while to see how these go. So far, it seems like Mac OS X's Disk
Utility messed up my partitions when doing encryption after creating
partitions instead of having MS W7 do it slowly?

TO BE CONTINUED AGAIN... :/


In comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage Ant wrote:
OK, I messed around with this and figured the quickest way to reproduce
this issue between platforms after playing with issue more during my
free time.


I had problems erasing everything on the HDD with Mac OS X's Disk
Utility. It wouldn't even let me its remove partitions. I had to use
Windows 7's Disk Manage to manually delete all the (partition/volume)s
except its 200 MB EFI System Partition (not changeable?). I also noticed
it cannot make multiple partitions in a single shot like in Mac OS X's
Disk Utility since I had to make a big volume, shrink, make a smaller
volume, repeat.


Anyways, I used Mac OS X's Disk Utility to make 3 new partitions (HFS+ &
2 (ex or not)FAT [no NTFS option]). Everything looked fine when I wrote
text files and checked on both systems. Next, I tell Mac OS X's Disk
Utility to format that HFS+ with encryption. Everything was still OK in
Mac. I go to Windows and check, and things started having problem like
not seeing a FAT partition, files, etc. It seems like Apple is messing
up the partitions.


I am going to reverse in creating partitions manually and slowly with W7
first, go to Mac's Disk Utility to format an encrypted HFS, recheck,
BitLocker encrypt a NTFS partition, and then recheck to see their
results.


TO BE CONTINUED...


In comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage Ant wrote:
Hi.


I'm having problems with my 2 MS partitions in my external USB 2 TB WD
Green HDD. I wanted to have 2 encrypted partitions (W7 EE SP1's
BitLocker NTFS and HFS[Time Machine and manual Mac files]) and an
unencrypted FAT (tried both FAT32 and exFAT). I had no problems
(mak/creat)ing them.


The problem is that Mac OS X v10.10.5 (Yosemite) thinks I have 2 FAT
drives (only 1 should exist while other is NTFS (assuming cannot be read
due to its BitLocker encryption which is fine to me)). If I connect it
to a W7 laptop/notebook, then only FAT can be seen.


I tried reformatting the encrypted BitLocker NTFS to unencrypted FAT in
Mac OS X's Disk Utility which can be seen in Mac, but W7 does't see it.
I tried letting W7's Disk Management make this unallocated partition to
a new simple volume (NTFS or exFAT -- tried both), but it said "The
operation you selected will convert the selected basic disk(s) to
dynamic disk(s). If you convert the disk(s) to dynamic, you will not be
able to stat installed operating systems from any volume on the disk(s)
(except the current boot volume). Are you sure you want to continue?" I
tried Yes and its Virtual Disk Manager said "The operation is not
supported by the object."


I tried deleting all partitions and told Mac OS X's Disk Utility to
recreate the 3 partitions (unencrypted HFS+ & 2 MS FAT partitions) from
scratch. Everything was fine when I checked between machines. I told W7
to format a FAT partition into NTFS with BitLocker encryption. After it
was done, I rechecked with Mac OS X. Partitions were fine (yes, I know
Mac can't read BitLocker encryptions so that partition stays hidden). I
told Mac OS X to do a very long encrypted Time Machine backup and
manually copy some files into this encrypted HFS+ partition for hours.
After that, I went back to W7 and it can't see my BitLocker partition
(unallocated)!


http://i.imgur.com/tJ5wWz6.gif and http://i.imgur.com/KBwAEct.gif and
for my 2 screen (shot/capture)s from both machine with the same external
USB HDD connected.


What's going on? Does having 2 different encrypted partitions not work
with each other? Or am I doing something wrong?


Thank you in advance.

--
Quote of the Week: "Yeah, what's left of it. I was in the militia --
national guard... That's good! Wasn't any war any more than there's war
between men and ants." --stranger; "And we're eat-able ants. I found
that out... What will they do with us?" --Pierson from H.G. Wells' The
War of the Worlds
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
  #18  
Old January 30th 16, 05:15 AM posted to alt.comp.periphs.hdd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general
Ant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 858
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLocker NTFS?

So, I changed to another adapter and now 64-bit W7 EE SP1 cannot see the
partitions (wants me to format it). However, Mac OS X v10.10.5
(Yosemite) had no problems. Argh.


In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Ant wrote:
With the long and hard way. I did all the tedious partitioning in W7
(only NTFS though since FAT weren't offered)) first, then go back Mac OS
X to make a partition HFS+ with its encryption. I checked both machines.
No problems so far! I told W7 to encrypt a NTFS partition with its
BitLocker that took a while (no format with encryption option like Apple
does?). I rechecked with both machines. No problems. I reformatted the
unencrypted NTFS to exFAT in Mac OS X since W7 wouldn't let me. I
rechecked both machines, and no problems.


Right now, I'm writing a lot of data to both encrypted drives which will
take a while to see how these go. So far, it seems like Mac OS X's Disk
Utility messed up my partitions when doing encryption after creating
partitions instead of having MS W7 do it slowly?


TO BE CONTINUED AGAIN... :/



In comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage Ant wrote:
OK, I messed around with this and figured the quickest way to reproduce
this issue between platforms after playing with issue more during my
free time.


I had problems erasing everything on the HDD with Mac OS X's Disk
Utility. It wouldn't even let me its remove partitions. I had to use
Windows 7's Disk Manage to manually delete all the (partition/volume)s
except its 200 MB EFI System Partition (not changeable?). I also noticed
it cannot make multiple partitions in a single shot like in Mac OS X's
Disk Utility since I had to make a big volume, shrink, make a smaller
volume, repeat.


Anyways, I used Mac OS X's Disk Utility to make 3 new partitions (HFS+ &
2 (ex or not)FAT [no NTFS option]). Everything looked fine when I wrote
text files and checked on both systems. Next, I tell Mac OS X's Disk
Utility to format that HFS+ with encryption. Everything was still OK in
Mac. I go to Windows and check, and things started having problem like
not seeing a FAT partition, files, etc. It seems like Apple is messing
up the partitions.


I am going to reverse in creating partitions manually and slowly with W7
first, go to Mac's Disk Utility to format an encrypted HFS, recheck,
BitLocker encrypt a NTFS partition, and then recheck to see their
results.


TO BE CONTINUED...


In comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage Ant wrote:
Hi.


I'm having problems with my 2 MS partitions in my external USB 2 TB WD
Green HDD. I wanted to have 2 encrypted partitions (W7 EE SP1's
BitLocker NTFS and HFS[Time Machine and manual Mac files]) and an
unencrypted FAT (tried both FAT32 and exFAT). I had no problems
(mak/creat)ing them.


The problem is that Mac OS X v10.10.5 (Yosemite) thinks I have 2 FAT
drives (only 1 should exist while other is NTFS (assuming cannot be read
due to its BitLocker encryption which is fine to me)). If I connect it
to a W7 laptop/notebook, then only FAT can be seen.


I tried reformatting the encrypted BitLocker NTFS to unencrypted FAT in
Mac OS X's Disk Utility which can be seen in Mac, but W7 does't see it.
I tried letting W7's Disk Management make this unallocated partition to
a new simple volume (NTFS or exFAT -- tried both), but it said "The
operation you selected will convert the selected basic disk(s) to
dynamic disk(s). If you convert the disk(s) to dynamic, you will not be
able to stat installed operating systems from any volume on the disk(s)
(except the current boot volume). Are you sure you want to continue?" I
tried Yes and its Virtual Disk Manager said "The operation is not
supported by the object."


I tried deleting all partitions and told Mac OS X's Disk Utility to
recreate the 3 partitions (unencrypted HFS+ & 2 MS FAT partitions) from
scratch. Everything was fine when I checked between machines. I told W7
to format a FAT partition into NTFS with BitLocker encryption. After it
was done, I rechecked with Mac OS X. Partitions were fine (yes, I know
Mac can't read BitLocker encryptions so that partition stays hidden). I
told Mac OS X to do a very long encrypted Time Machine backup and
manually copy some files into this encrypted HFS+ partition for hours.
After that, I went back to W7 and it can't see my BitLocker partition
(unallocated)!


http://i.imgur.com/tJ5wWz6.gif and http://i.imgur.com/KBwAEct.gif and
for my 2 screen (shot/capture)s from both machine with the same external
USB HDD connected.


What's going on? Does having 2 different encrypted partitions not work
with each other? Or am I doing something wrong?


Thank you in advance.


--
Quote of the Week: "It is not enough to be busy, so are the ants. The
question is: what are we busy about?" --Henry David Thoreau
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
  #19  
Old January 30th 16, 03:50 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.hdd, comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage, comp.sys.mac.system, alt.windows7.general
Wolffan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLocker NTFS?

On 29 Jan 2016, Ant wrote
(in ):

So, I changed to another adapter and now 64-bit W7 EE SP1 cannot see the
partitions (wants me to format it). However, Mac OS X v10.10.5
(Yosemite) had no problems. Argh.


you’re going to have problems with the partitions. Apple uses GPT, Win7
usually uses MBR. GPT systems can see MBR partitions. MBR systems can
(usually) see GPT systems which have one partition. More than one partition,
not so much. You will experience problems with GPT partitions on 32-bit Win 7
systems, and different problems on 64-bit Win 7 systems which have older
BIOSes rather than UEFI. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table

I suspect that your Win 7 system uses MBR. I really doubt that you’ll get
an MBR Win 7 system to see your partitions.

Frankly, if I were trying to set up an encrypted USB device which could work
on both Mac and Windows, I’d simply use NTFS and get one of the extensions
which allows OS X to read/write NTFS. There are, or used to be, several free
NTFS extensions, and there is at least one pay version, from
Paragon.http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/
Alternatively, I’d get a virtual machine (Parallels, VMWare, Virtual Box)
and put Windows in it on the OS X machine, and read the NTFS drive using
Windows. Finally, I’d try formatting the drive HFS+ and getting a HFS+
read/write extension for Windows. Paragon offers such an extension, too.
http://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/

I used to use two of the free NTFS on Mac extensions, was dissatisfied with
the performance, bought the Paragon extension and have used it for several
years now.

I suspect that it will be difficult to impossible to put two partitions, one
HFS+ and one NTFS, on a USB device and have them be actually useable.

  #20  
Old January 30th 16, 10:58 PM posted to alt.comp.periphs.hdd,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general
Ant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 858
Default Can't have both encrypted Mac's HFS+ & MS W7 EE SP1's BitLocker NTFS?

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Wolffan wrote:
you???re going to have problems with the partitions. Apple uses GPT, Win7
usually uses MBR. GPT systems can see MBR partitions. MBR systems can
(usually) see GPT systems which have one partition. More than one partition,
not so much. You will experience problems with GPT partitions on 32-bit Win 7
systems, and different problems on 64-bit Win 7 systems which have older
BIOSes rather than UEFI. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table


I suspect that your Win 7 system uses MBR. I really doubt that you???ll get
an MBR Win 7 system to see your partitions.


Frankly, if I were trying to set up an encrypted USB device which could work
on both Mac and Windows, I???d simply use NTFS and get one of the extensions
which allows OS X to read/write NTFS. There are, or used to be, several free
NTFS extensions, and there is at least one pay version, from
Paragon.http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/
Alternatively, I???d get a virtual machine (Parallels, VMWare, Virtual Box)
and put Windows in it on the OS X machine, and read the NTFS drive using
Windows. Finally, I???d try formatting the drive HFS+ and getting a HFS+
read/write extension for Windows. Paragon offers such an extension, too.
http://www.paragon-software.com/home/hfs-windows/


I used to use two of the free NTFS on Mac extensions, was dissatisfied with
the performance, bought the Paragon extension and have used it for several
years now.


I suspect that it will be difficult to impossible to put two partitions, one
HFS+ and one NTFS, on a USB device and have them be actually useable.


Interesting. I am surprised it is not possible to do multiple partitions
like that like with internal drives. Do Linux and Windows have this
problem too?
--
Quote of the Week: "It is not enough to be busy, so are the ants. The
question is: what are we busy about?" --Henry David Thoreau
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
 




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