If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Hard disk reliability examined once mo HGST rules,Seagate is alarming
On 1/24/2015 7:18 AM, Robert Nichols wrote:
4. 12 days ago, I bought a new green Western Digital Corporation (WDC) WD20EZRX-00D8PB0 SATA HDD to replace the dying Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 (ST380011A; 7200 RPM; 80 GB; IDE) HDD in Debian/Linux box. You might want to check whether your new drive has the absurdly short 8 second timeout that unloads the heads and causes the Load_Cycle_Count (SMART attribute 225) to increase rapidly under Linux. Google "WDidle3" for details. There is a Linux package "idle3-tools" to adjust or disable that timer. The only benefit from unloading the heads is a fraction of a Watt decrease in power consumption in the idle state. Interesting. Thanks for catching that. I looked at my Debian stable desktop box (on 24/7). I do use the new drive as a storage drive, and did notice sometimes lags to respond after idling. # smartctl -a /dev/sdb smartctl 5.41 2011-06-09 r3365 [x86_64-linux-3.2.0-4-amd64] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Device Model: WDC WD20EZRX-00D8PB0 Serial Number: WD-WCC[deleted] LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 20abf221c Firmware Version: 80.00A80 User Capacity: 2,000,398,934,016 bytes [2.00 TB] Sector Sizes: 512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical Device is: Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall] ATA Version is: 9 ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated Local Time is: Sat Jan 24 20:50:19 2015 PST SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x82) Offline data collection activity was completed without error. Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection: (26460) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate. Auto Offline data collection on/off support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. General Purpose Logging supported. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 255) minutes. Conveyance self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. SCT capabilities: (0x7035) SCT Status supported. SCT Feature Control supported. SCT Data Table supported. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 100 253 021 Pre-fail Always - 0 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 2 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail Always - 0 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 315 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 2 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 195 195 000 Old_age Always - 17676 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 123 121 000 Old_age Always - 27 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 200 200 000 Old_age Offline - 0 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0008 200 200 000 Old_age Offline - 0 SMART Error Log Version: 1 No Errors Logged SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 7 - # 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 2 - SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 1 0 0 Not_testing 2 0 0 Not_testing 3 0 0 Not_testing 4 0 0 Not_testing 5 0 0 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay. I don't see a 225 or did I miss something? Debian stable has idle3-tools package, and I was reading its description: "Package: idle3-tools Version: 0.9.1-1 Installed-Size: 20 Maintainer: Anibal Monsalve Salazar Architectu amd64 Depends: libc6 (= 2.2.5) Description-en: change the idle3 timer of recent Western Digital Hard Disk Drives Idle3-tools provides a linux/unix utility that can disable, get and set the value of the infamous idle3 timer found on recent Western Digital Hard Disk Drives. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Hard disk reliability examined once mo HGST rules,Seagate is alarming
On 1/24/2015 6:40 PM, Your Name wrote:
I added a Western Digital 120GB drive to my G3 PowerMac years ago and it's never had any problems. These drive failure problems are likely partly due to bad computer design causing over-heating, and partly due to the ever-increasing capacity (trying to squeeze more and more data into the same physical space). That drive is old, but these WD green drives are new? They use that power down option as a default feature from what I read. Others can clarify this for us. -- "None preaches better than the ant, and she says nothing." --Ben Franklin /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Hard disk reliability examined once mo HGST rules, Seagate is alarming
Salut Ant
In article , Ant wrote: On 1/24/2015 7:18 AM, Robert Nichols wrote: 4. 12 days ago, I bought a new green Western Digital Corporation (WDC) WD20EZRX-00D8PB0 SATA HDD to replace the dying Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 (ST380011A; 7200 RPM; 80 GB; IDE) HDD in Debian/Linux box. You might want to check whether your new drive has the absurdly short 8 second timeout that unloads the heads and causes the Load_Cycle_Count (SMART attribute 225) to increase rapidly under Linux. Google "WDidle3" for details. There is a Linux package "idle3-tools" to adjust or disable that timer. The only benefit from unloading the heads is a fraction of a Watt decrease in power consumption in the idle state. Interesting. Thanks for catching that. I looked at my Debian stable desktop box (on 24/7). I do use the new drive as a storage drive, and did notice sometimes lags to respond after idling. # smartctl -a /dev/sdb smartctl 5.41 2011-06-09 r3365 [x86_64-linux-3.2.0-4-amd64] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Device Model: WDC WD20EZRX-00D8PB0 Serial Number: WD-WCC[deleted] LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 20abf221c Firmware Version: 80.00A80 User Capacity: 2,000,398,934,016 bytes [2.00 TB] Sector Sizes: 512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical Device is: Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall] I don't see a 225 or did I miss something? maybe the line above (I snipped some...)? Cheers Andreas -- MacAndreas Rutishauser, http://www.MacAndreas.ch EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung , Fon: 044 / 721 36 47 |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Hard disk reliability examined once mo HGST rules, Seagate is alarming
Ant wrote:
That drive is old, but these WD green drives are new? They use that power down option as a default feature from what I read. Others can clarify this for us. Over the past six years, I have used ten WD Green drives. Nine are still in use, including two fairly recent WD30EZRX models. None has ever spun down of its own accord. Whatever you have read might apply to external WD drives, but it isn't true of their internal Green drives. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Hard disk reliability examined once mo HGST rules, Seagateis alarming
On 01/25/2015 03:12 AM, Neill Massello wrote:
Ant wrote: That drive is old, but these WD green drives are new? They use that power down option as a default feature from what I read. Others can clarify this for us. Over the past six years, I have used ten WD Green drives. Nine are still in use, including two fairly recent WD30EZRX models. None has ever spun down of its own accord. Whatever you have read might apply to external WD drives, but it isn't true of their internal Green drives. They don't spin down, just move the heads off of the platters. You can look at SMART attribute 193 Load_Cycle_Count and see it growing rapidly toward its spec. limit. I had one where I saw the count growing above 150,000 after about 3 months. The spec. stated a lifetime of 300,000. Do the math. (On newer drives the spec. has been raised to 1,000,000. That still doesn't work out to a very long life.) What does "smartctl -A" report for the Load_Cycle_Count on your WD30EZRX? -- Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42" |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Hard disk reliability examined once mo HGST rules, Seagateis alarming
On 01/24/2015 11:11 PM, Ant wrote:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 315 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 195 195 000 Old_age Always - 17676 At that rate the drive will report attribute 193 "Failing Now" after 742.5 power-on days. I suspect that the drive will probably still work fine (the "1 million cycles" is probably just the number of test cycles run), but you will have to put up with SMART always reporting that the drive has failed. -- Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42" |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Hard disk reliability examined once mo HGST rules, Seagate is alarming
Robert Nichols wrote:
They don't spin down, just move the heads off of the platters. You can look at SMART attribute 193 Load_Cycle_Count and see it growing rapidly toward its spec. limit. I had one where I saw the count growing above 150,000 after about 3 months. The spec. stated a lifetime of 300,000. Do the math. (On newer drives the spec. has been raised to 1,000,000. That still doesn't work out to a very long life.) OK, you're talking about load cycles whereas the other posters were using "spin down" and "power down" language. Now we're on the same page. What does "smartctl -A" report for the Load_Cycle_Count on your WD30EZRX? I checked my WD HDDs and the Green models do indeed have very high load cycle counts per power on hours. The LCC/hr ratios for the two WD30EZRX drives are 9 and 21, whereas it's about 1 for my Blue and Black WD drives. My oldest (1TB) Green drives (with firmware version 01.01A01) have LCC/hr ratios like the Blues and Blacks. It looks like the manic unloading was introduced with the 01.00A01 firmware some time between April and August of 2009. I guess it's good that I have used WD Green drives primarily as "removable" backup storage, so they stay busy for the short periods they're in use and don't rack up really huge LCC counts. My highest LCC is 211346 on a drive that I've had for almost 5 years but has only 5790 power on hours. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Hard disk reliability examined once mo HGST rules,Seagate is alarming
On 1/25/2015 7:34 AM, Robert Nichols wrote:
On 01/24/2015 11:11 PM, Ant wrote: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 315 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 195 195 000 Old_age Always - 17676 At that rate the drive will report attribute 193 "Failing Now" after 742.5 power-on days. I suspect that the drive will probably still work fine (the "1 million cycles" is probably just the number of test cycles run), but you will have to put up with SMART always reporting that the drive has failed. Ugh, I hate that report on old ages. And there's no way to make it shut up about its high values? -- "Maybe it's like an ant hive..." "Bees man, bees have hives." "You know what I mean. It's like one female that runs the whole show." "Yes, the queen." "Yeah the mamma. She is bad*ss, man. I mean big." "These things ain't ants estupido." "I know that." --Aliens movie /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net | |o o| | \ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link. ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Hard disk reliability examined once mo HGST rules, Seagate is alarming
In article , Robert Nichols
wrote: On 01/25/2015 03:12 AM, Neill Massello wrote: Ant wrote: That drive is old, but these WD green drives are new? They use that power down option as a default feature from what I read. Others can clarify this for us. Over the past six years, I have used ten WD Green drives. Nine are still in use, including two fairly recent WD30EZRX models. None has ever spun down of its own accord. Whatever you have read might apply to external WD drives, but it isn't true of their internal Green drives. They don't spin down, just move the heads off of the platters. You can look at SMART attribute 193 Load_Cycle_Count Like most attempts to measure unmeasurable things (e.g. battery level indicators), "SMART" is misleading and inaccurate. It may be handy for a rough idea, but it's never sensible to take what it says as gsopel truth. and see it growing rapidly toward its spec. limit. I had one where I saw the count growing above 150,000 after about 3 months. The spec. stated a lifetime of 300,000. Do the math. (On newer drives the spec. has been raised to 1,000,000. That still doesn't work out to a very long life.) What does "smartctl -A" report for the Load_Cycle_Count on your WD30EZRX? Those manufacturer are usually quoted as "*average*" figures. In a similar way to food "Use By" / "Expiry" Dates, most manufacturers vastly underestimate such figures on purpose so that their products look better. For example if they said the lifespan was 50 and most drives were failing at 40, then they would look bad and customers would complain, but if they say the lifespan is 50 and most drives are failing at 80, then they look good and cusomers are happy their drives are lasting "longer". |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
HGST Unveils World’s First 6TB Hard Drive Packing Helium | Johnny | General | 0 | November 4th 13 08:27 PM |
Hard Disk Reliability | Hari Hari Mau | Storage (alternative) | 25 | December 10th 08 06:35 PM |
Hard Disk Reliability | Hari Hari Mau | Homebuilt PC's | 27 | December 10th 08 06:35 PM |
Constructing a disk system with RAM read speed and RAID 1 reliability | Peter Olcott | General | 10 | September 4th 08 11:00 PM |
Constructing a disk system with RAM read speed and RAID 1 reliability | Peter Olcott | Homebuilt PC's | 10 | September 4th 08 11:00 PM |