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Request for information about the existance of additional memory



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 14th 09, 10:05 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
Kenn Caesius
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Request for information about the existance of additional memory

I have a Packard-bell 4x4/PB-450M+ computer I would like know about the
availability about additional memory, specifically about:

"two 256Kx16 (70ns) ZIP DRAM chips with (two) CAS lines (symetrical)":
the specified memory for a two megabyte video upgrade

"(4) 128Kx8 (20ns), (1) 32Kx8 (15ns) and (1) 64Kx1 (15ns) cache SRAM
chips)": the specified memory for for a 512K Cache upgrade.

These are quotation out of the "486 users Guide" that I have and been
searching for these items on and off for years. Would anyone happen to
have a clue where I can find these parts or explain why (apart from age)
they are so hard to find?

---End of message---

  #2  
Old July 15th 09, 04:55 AM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
Ben Myers[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,607
Default Request for information about the existance of additional memory

Kenn Caesius wrote:
I have a Packard-bell 4x4/PB-450M+ computer I would like know about the
availability about additional memory, specifically about:

"two 256Kx16 (70ns) ZIP DRAM chips with (two) CAS lines (symetrical)":
the specified memory for a two megabyte video upgrade

"(4) 128Kx8 (20ns), (1) 32Kx8 (15ns) and (1) 64Kx1 (15ns) cache SRAM
chips)": the specified memory for for a 512K Cache upgrade.

These are quotation out of the "486 users Guide" that I have and been
searching for these items on and off for years. Would anyone happen to
have a clue where I can find these parts or explain why (apart from age)
they are so hard to find?

---End of message---


Kenn,

Some of these chips were especially scarce. For example, the 32Kx8 15ns
SRAM DIP chips were very common, used in a great many 486 and some
Pentium motherboards before Intel (and AMD) began designing on-chip
cache memory. 64Kx1 is not found too frequently. 128Kx8 was used in
just a few designs with large cache memory like 512KB. Most 486 and
Pentium boards maxed out the cache at 256K. Some Pentium boards used a
pretty standard COAST (Cache On A STick) module, either 256K or 512K.

I still have a collection of cache chips I never recycled. I'll see if
I have any 128Kx8 and 64Kx1. If so, you'd need to pay a few bucks for
them including first class postage.

As for the video memory, I haven't a clue... Ben Myers
  #3  
Old July 16th 09, 06:59 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
Ben Myers[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,607
Default Request for information about the existance of additional memory

Ben Myers wrote:
Kenn Caesius wrote:
I have a Packard-bell 4x4/PB-450M+ computer I would like know about the
availability about additional memory, specifically about:

"two 256Kx16 (70ns) ZIP DRAM chips with (two) CAS lines (symetrical)":
the specified memory for a two megabyte video upgrade

"(4) 128Kx8 (20ns), (1) 32Kx8 (15ns) and (1) 64Kx1 (15ns) cache SRAM
chips)": the specified memory for for a 512K Cache upgrade.

These are quotation out of the "486 users Guide" that I have and been
searching for these items on and off for years. Would anyone happen to
have a clue where I can find these parts or explain why (apart from age)
they are so hard to find?

---End of message---


Kenn,

Some of these chips were especially scarce. For example, the 32Kx8 15ns
SRAM DIP chips were very common, used in a great many 486 and some
Pentium motherboards before Intel (and AMD) began designing on-chip
cache memory. 64Kx1 is not found too frequently. 128Kx8 was used in
just a few designs with large cache memory like 512KB. Most 486 and
Pentium boards maxed out the cache at 256K. Some Pentium boards used a
pretty standard COAST (Cache On A STick) module, either 256K or 512K.

I still have a collection of cache chips I never recycled. I'll see if
I have any 128Kx8 and 64Kx1. If so, you'd need to pay a few bucks for
them including first class postage.

As for the video memory, I haven't a clue... Ben Myers


Sorry to disappoint. I have plenty of 32x8 SRAM chips, both 15 and
20ns, but no 128x8 or 64x1.

Where to find? Try DigiKey, but be prepared to pay absurdly high
prices... Ben Myers



  #4  
Old July 17th 09, 03:53 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
Kenn Caesius
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Request for information about the existance of additional memory - Acknowledgement and Question.

Thank for the information, Ben Meyers.

In a addition to my original post, would you happen to know if I could
expect a noticeable performance gain if I do install the additional
cache memory?

---End of message---

  #5  
Old July 17th 09, 07:20 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
Ben Myers[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,607
Default Request for information about the existance of additional memory- Acknowledgement and Question.

Kenn Caesius wrote:
Thank for the information, Ben Myers.

In a addition to my original post, would you happen to know if I could
expect a noticeable performance gain if I do install the additional
cache memory?

---End of message---


The general rule of thumb is that the faster processors benefit more
from cache memory than the slower ones. For example, a 486-33 or 486-25
would not show much performance improvement at all, whereas a 66MHz
486-DX2 or a 100MHz 486-DX4 (or 83MHz Pentium OverDrive) would.

Also, going from no (zero K) cache at all (as shipped on some PB
systems) to ANY size of cache will result in the largest performance
gains... Ben Myers
  #6  
Old July 18th 09, 05:46 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
metronid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default Request for information about the existance of additional memory- Acknowledgement and Question.

On Jul 17, 2:20*pm, Ben Myers wrote:
Kenn Caesius wrote:
Thank for the information, Ben Myers.


In a addition to my original post, would you happen to know if I could
expect a noticeable performance gain if I do install the additional
cache memory?


---End of message---


The general rule of thumb is that the faster processors benefit more
from cache memory than the slower ones. *For example, a 486-33 or 486-25
would not show much performance improvement at all, whereas a 66MHz
486-DX2 or a 100MHz 486-DX4 (or 83MHz Pentium OverDrive) would.

Also, going from no (zero K) cache at all (as shipped on some PB
systems) to ANY size of cache will result in the largest performance
gains... Ben Myers


Hello I am here but have to limit my time.
I am still recovering and will be doing so for a while.
I had a PB 450mb system legend 10CD



I did use the above memory as it was cheap and available last
century.
It worked some what better with the original 486 processor.
It worked better and best with 486 100mhz as opposed to the 83mhz
POD

In fact I was not that impressed with the pentium 83 which was
really the
63 that was clocked at 83 by me.

One note it did run much better when I used the modified bios that
I rewrote.
I did not actually write it I hijacked it and made some
modifications.
If my memory is still active it would allow for a HD of around
4gb.
It may have just ran better because the added HD was not running
in compressed mode.


I know someone is going to say the heat with overdriving.
I believe that Intel just labelled them each as such and they
were maybe
the same CPU.
Maybe not the 1st run but after a few runs they knew it was
cheaper to use one
assembly line as opposed to runiing a 2nd that was not needed .

I see tis all the time with drugs.
Protonix which is a name brand acid reflux drug is also packaged
as a generic
by Lederle.
Same drug same logo on the generic same bottle with markings
excepr printed label.
Lot sumbers are in same sequence.
Manufacturing plant is same address.
The generic is 100 dollars less a bottle at acquisition.
Some people tell me they are allergic to the generic when I
dispense it in
the original gereic bottle.
The allergies gfo aay when placed in a rgular amber bottle.
Freakin amazing how people are allergic to a name.

I am still able to ramble perhaps I may be getting back to para
normal.











  #7  
Old July 19th 09, 11:11 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
Robert E. Watts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Request for information about the existance of additional memory - Acknowledgement and Question.

HI Gang !

Inserting comments as I go..... as usual....


"metronid" wrote in message
...
On Jul 17, 2:20 pm, Ben Myers wrote:
Kenn Caesius wrote:
Thank for the information, Ben Myers.


In a addition to my original post, would you happen to know if I could
expect a noticeable performance gain if I do install the additional
cache memory?



Ah, a person who thinks just like I do.
Yep, L2 cache is important, especially if you have NONE like ( for reasons
that escape everyone ) Packard Bell *usually* provided.
I have a few Packard Bell's with L2, and surprisingly, (only 256K, as
opposed to everyone else using 512k on most Pentium boards. ) the difference
is not that great.
I always suspected that PB did "something" in BIOS that made their machines
run pretty good without it. Don't know what it would be though..........
I have searched out PB's with L2 without much success, although like I
stated, I do have a few with it.


---End of message---


The general rule of thumb is that the faster processors benefit more
from cache memory than the slower ones. For example, a 486-33 or 486-25
would not show much performance improvement at all, whereas a 66MHz
486-DX2 or a 100MHz 486-DX4 (or 83MHz Pentium OverDrive) would.

Also, going from no (zero K) cache at all (as shipped on some PB
systems) to ANY size of cache will result in the largest performance
gains... Ben Myers



Good idea to read what Ben types carefully, it's always good information.
:-)



Hello I am here but have to limit my time.
I am still recovering and will be doing so for a while.


From what ?
Just curious. Hope you're doing well!



I had a PB 450mb system legend 10CD



I did use the above memory as it was cheap and available last
century.
It worked some what better with the original 486 processor.
It worked better and best with 486 100mhz as opposed to the 83mhz
POD

In fact I was not that impressed with the pentium 83 which was
really the
63 that was clocked at 83 by me.

One note it did run much better when I used the modified bios that
I rewrote.


Which more or less confirms what I said earlier. The way a BIOS is written
can make a difference in performance.

Also, the POD usually disables the L2 on PB motherboards. Dumb.
PB did so many DUMB things.



I did not actually write it I hijacked it and made some
modifications.
If my memory is still active it would allow for a HD of around
4gb.
It may have just ran better because the added HD was not running
in compressed mode.


I know someone is going to say the heat with overdriving.
I believe that Intel just labelled them each as such and they
were maybe
the same CPU.
Maybe not the 1st run but after a few runs they knew it was
cheaper to use one
assembly line as opposed to runiing a 2nd that was not needed .



Nothing so tricky. Intel merely labled them 83 or 63 MHz for the "masses".
Most people can't figure out bus speed, so it was easier if people knew if
their computer ran at (16), 20, 25, 33, 50, or 66MHz which Overdrive POD to
buy.
You and I didn't care, just cranked up the bus speed and let 'er rip.
Ever tried the POD at 100MHz ? ( 2½X40MHz ) Runs pretty good !



I am still able to ramble perhaps I may be getting back to para
normal.

Nothing wrong with rambling.

:-)


--
bobwatts

Watts Carburetion Service
WhizzBang Computers
" collector of Asian transfat plastic trinkets ! "
EartH // KlaXXoN












  #8  
Old July 25th 09, 06:06 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
Kenn Caesius
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Request for information about the existance of additional memory - Resolution

Again that you Ben Myers for your very informative posts regarding
memory. Regretfully, I must decline the offer of the cache memory
citing my preference for "all or nothing": if I could find all the
components for a 512K upgrade I would not consider anything less.

I much more disappointed the video memory is extinct; I have grown very
accustomed the 1024x768 32-bit color I find it hard to work with
anything less.

---End of message---

  #9  
Old August 2nd 09, 07:58 PM posted to alt.sys.pc-clone.packardbell
Ben Myers[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,607
Default Request for information about the existance of additional memory- Acknowledgement and Question.

Robert E. Watts wrote:
HI Gang !

Inserting comments as I go..... as usual....


"metronid" wrote in message
...
On Jul 17, 2:20 pm, Ben Myers wrote:
Kenn Caesius wrote:
Thank for the information, Ben Myers.
In a addition to my original post, would you happen to know if I could
expect a noticeable performance gain if I do install the additional
cache memory?


Ah, a person who thinks just like I do.
Yep, L2 cache is important, especially if you have NONE like ( for reasons
that escape everyone ) Packard Bell *usually* provided.
I have a few Packard Bell's with L2, and surprisingly, (only 256K, as
opposed to everyone else using 512k on most Pentium boards. ) the difference
is not that great.
I always suspected that PB did "something" in BIOS that made their machines
run pretty good without it. Don't know what it would be though..........
I have searched out PB's with L2 without much success, although like I
stated, I do have a few with it.


---End of message---

The general rule of thumb is that the faster processors benefit more
from cache memory than the slower ones. For example, a 486-33 or 486-25
would not show much performance improvement at all, whereas a 66MHz
486-DX2 or a 100MHz 486-DX4 (or 83MHz Pentium OverDrive) would.

Also, going from no (zero K) cache at all (as shipped on some PB
systems) to ANY size of cache will result in the largest performance
gains... Ben Myers



Good idea to read what Ben types carefully, it's always good information.
:-)



Hello I am here but have to limit my time.
I am still recovering and will be doing so for a while.


From what ?
Just curious. Hope you're doing well!



I had a PB 450mb system legend 10CD



I did use the above memory as it was cheap and available last
century.
It worked some what better with the original 486 processor.
It worked better and best with 486 100mhz as opposed to the 83mhz
POD

In fact I was not that impressed with the pentium 83 which was
really the
63 that was clocked at 83 by me.

One note it did run much better when I used the modified bios that
I rewrote.


Which more or less confirms what I said earlier. The way a BIOS is written
can make a difference in performance.

Also, the POD usually disables the L2 on PB motherboards. Dumb.
PB did so many DUMB things.



I did not actually write it I hijacked it and made some
modifications.
If my memory is still active it would allow for a HD of around
4gb.
It may have just ran better because the added HD was not running
in compressed mode.


I know someone is going to say the heat with overdriving.
I believe that Intel just labelled them each as such and they
were maybe
the same CPU.
Maybe not the 1st run but after a few runs they knew it was
cheaper to use one
assembly line as opposed to runiing a 2nd that was not needed .



Nothing so tricky. Intel merely labled them 83 or 63 MHz for the "masses".
Most people can't figure out bus speed, so it was easier if people knew if
their computer ran at (16), 20, 25, 33, 50, or 66MHz which Overdrive POD to
buy.
You and I didn't care, just cranked up the bus speed and let 'er rip.
Ever tried the POD at 100MHz ? ( 2½X40MHz ) Runs pretty good !



I am still able to ramble perhaps I may be getting back to para
normal.

Nothing wrong with rambling.

:-)



The Socket 3 Pentium OverDrive was Intel's worst OverDrive disaster
because it was designed to run with a write-through external cache
rather than write-back, and probably 0.00005% faster than if it had been
designed for write-through. Prior to the annoucement and general
availability of the POD, almost all of the 486 boards ever built had
either write-back cache or no cache at all (like many PB models).
Installing a POD on one of these write-through boards made the system
incredibly slow. Intel also had an interposer board that would sit
between the POD and the Socket 3, effectively disabling the write-back
feature, enabling write-back instead. But interposers were always
extremely difficult to come by.

There was a class action suit against Gateway for advertising and
delivering "Pentium Ready" 486 systems. The suit was settled by paying
off all the lawyer suits and giving class action participants a couplon
good for $50 (???) off on the same stupid Pentium OverDrive that would
not work on their systems.

I sold hand-assembled kits using a 133MHz AMD 486 workalike, a 486
socket interposer, cooling fan, and a write back/write through jumper.
I never had a customer return one for lack of satisfaction. Evergreen
and Kingston also sold kits, far more than my 200 or so kits. I also
had a bundle with cache chips and nicely illustrated documentation. I
still have some of this stuff around for chump change, if anyone wants
to torque up their PB system. Not sure how much I have in the pile of
archeological remains from previous computer civilizations... Ben Myers
 




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