help a oldtimer

greetings

i have a p200mmx on a AOpen i430HX motherboard. the system is rock
stable.
nowa days i cannot do moutch with it and i have decided to overclock
the system no matter the cost. i was hopeing to raise the fsb to 75MHz
on a clock multiply by 3, but either i don't know how to do it either
it is impossible.

now i hope you could help me to overclock it, if possible. i would
like to try 66MHz x4, but the board does not have a way, as i can see,
to set the clock multiply to anything above x3

i have tryed more than once to modify the jumpers that i beleve are
responsible for the fsb clock to set them at 75MHz, but the board
logic ignores everything, probably considering that as a mistake, and
POSTs at normal 66MHz at x3.

here is the info on the MB's jumpers
http://www.aopen.com/tech/jumper/ap5k/default.htm
apparently the board does not support p233mmx.
i have flashed the BIOS with the most recent update, five years ago

Vasko

LOL! I give you an A+ for effort. And, a gold star for even bothering!

-
Vasko Altiparmakov stood up at show-n-tell, in
, and said:

greetings

i have a p200mmx on a AOpen i430HX motherboard. the system is rock
stable.
nowa days i cannot do moutch with it and i have decided to overclock
the system no matter the cost. i was hopeing to raise the fsb to 75MHz
on a clock multiply by 3, but either i don't know how to do it either
it is impossible.

now i hope you could help me to overclock it, if possible. i would
like to try 66MHz x4, but the board does not have a way, as i can see,
to set the clock multiply to anything above x3

i have tryed more than once to modify the jumpers that i beleve are
responsible for the fsb clock to set them at 75MHz, but the board
logic ignores everything, probably considering that as a mistake, and
POSTs at normal 66MHz at x3.

here is the info on the MB's jumpers
http://www.aopen.com/tech/jumper/ap5k/default.htm
apparently the board does not support p233mmx.
i have flashed the BIOS with the most recent update, five years ago

Vasko

--
Strontium

"It's no surprise, to me. I am my own worst enemy. `Cause every
now, and then, I kick the livin' **** `outta me." - Lit

Vasko Altiparmakov wrote:
greetings

i have a p200mmx on a AOpen i430HX motherboard. the system is rock
stable.
nowa days i cannot do moutch with it and i have decided to overclock
the system no matter the cost. i was hopeing to raise the fsb to 75MHz
on a clock multiply by 3, but either i don't know how to do it either
it is impossible.

now i hope you could help me to overclock it, if possible. i would
like to try 66MHz x4, but the board does not have a way, as i can see,
to set the clock multiply to anything above x3

i have tryed more than once to modify the jumpers that i beleve are
responsible for the fsb clock to set them at 75MHz, but the board
logic ignores everything, probably considering that as a mistake, and
POSTs at normal 66MHz at x3.

here is the info on the MB's jumpers
http://www.aopen.com/tech/jumper/ap5k/default.htm
apparently the board does not support p233mmx.
i have flashed the BIOS with the most recent update, five years ago

Vasko

I don't want to rain on your parade Vasko but an increase of 27MHz (13.5%)
isn't even going to be noticable. It doesn't matter much that the baord
doesn't support MMX CPUs, that probably just means it isn't capable of
supplying the dual-voltage/lower voltage to the CPU that they require.

I don't know why your board ignores the change in jumpers, it shouldn't do
that as it's hard-wiring, not software based (BIOS change). Unless the
feature has been disabled. Is it possible for you to find an earlier BIOS
and maybe flash it back to that? It may make a difference but I'm not really
sure.
--
~misfit~

Vasko Altiparmakov wrote:
greetings

i have a p200mmx on a AOpen i430HX motherboard. the system is rock
stable.
nowa days i cannot do moutch with it and i have decided to overclock
the system no matter the cost. i was hopeing to raise the fsb to 75MHz
on a clock multiply by 3, but either i don't know how to do it either
it is impossible.

now i hope you could help me to overclock it, if possible. i would
like to try 66MHz x4, but the board does not have a way, as i can see,
to set the clock multiply to anything above x3

i have tryed more than once to modify the jumpers that i beleve are
responsible for the fsb clock to set them at 75MHz, but the board
logic ignores everything, probably considering that as a mistake, and
POSTs at normal 66MHz at x3.

here is the info on the MB's jumpers
http://www.aopen.com/tech/jumper/ap5k/default.htm
apparently the board does not support p233mmx.
i have flashed the BIOS with the most recent update, five years ago

Vasko

I tried to find the specs for an ap5K but it ain't easy on their site.
Nearest I could locate with that chipset was the ap53.

At any rate, looking at the table and doing some decoding, what I come up
with is that the motherboard's maximum FSB is 66 Mhz (which matches what
the ap53 data sheet said), and two lower ones, 50 and 60. The P-75 setting
you see is 1.5 x 50 Mhz. But knowing what the standard pentium values are,
what I decode from the table is:

JP1 is the FSB setting... 50 1-2,3-4
60 1-2
and 66 3-4

JP7 is the multiplier 1.5x 1-2,3-4
2.0x 3-4,5-6
2.5x 5-6,7-8
and 3.0x 1-2,7-8

You can't overclock the FSB but you can try setting your 200MMX to 233.
Problem is, it's probably either multiplier locked or limited so it may not
work (might boot at a slower speed or not at all).

Anyway, the 'secret' to it is that, to get 233 in the MMX line, Intel
redefined 1.5x to be 3.5x since there is no MMX processor that uses the
1.5x setting (it's the processor that determines what the multiplier
jumpers mean). Hence, try setting JP7 to 1-2,3-4 with everything else the
same as it is now for your 200MMX. If it isn't multiplier locked, or
limited, that should tell it to run 3.5 x 66(.6666...) for 233Mhz.

Good luck.

David Maynard wrote in message ...
Vasko Altiparmakov wrote:

I tried to find the specs for an ap5K but it ain't easy on their site.
Nearest I could locate with that chipset was the ap53.

At any rate, looking at the table and doing some decoding, what I come up
with is that the motherboard's maximum FSB is 66 Mhz (which matches what
the ap53 data sheet said), and two lower ones, 50 and 60. The P-75 setting
you see is 1.5 x 50 Mhz. But knowing what the standard pentium values are,
what I decode from the table is:

JP1 is the FSB setting... 50 1-2,3-4
60 1-2
and 66 3-4

JP7 is the multiplier 1.5x 1-2,3-4
2.0x 3-4,5-6
2.5x 5-6,7-8
and 3.0x 1-2,7-8

You can't overclock the FSB but you can try setting your 200MMX to 233.
Problem is, it's probably either multiplier locked or limited so it may not
work (might boot at a slower speed or not at all).

Anyway, the 'secret' to it is that, to get 233 in the MMX line, Intel
redefined 1.5x to be 3.5x since there is no MMX processor that uses the
1.5x setting (it's the processor that determines what the multiplier
jumpers mean). Hence, try setting JP7 to 1-2,3-4 with everything else the
same as it is now for your 200MMX. If it isn't multiplier locked, or
limited, that should tell it to run 3.5 x 66(.6666...) for 233Mhz.

Good luck.

boy, you realy made me happy, when i read your posting
but this silly mobo does not accept anything above x3 clock multiply.
when i set jp7 to 1-2, 3-4 and turn the power on, it started the
porcessor at 166MHz.
no luck for me. the MB production time is 1996, no support for p233mmx
neither.
i have tryed almost all posible jumper setings. seems the logic on the
board is fixed.

anyway, thaks a lot

Vasko

"Vasko Altiparmakov" wrote in message
om...
David Maynard wrote in message
...
Vasko Altiparmakov wrote:

I tried to find the specs for an ap5K but it ain't easy on their site.
Nearest I could locate with that chipset was the ap53.

At any rate, looking at the table and doing some decoding, what I come
up
with is that the motherboard's maximum FSB is 66 Mhz (which matches what
the ap53 data sheet said), and two lower ones, 50 and 60. The P-75
setting
you see is 1.5 x 50 Mhz. But knowing what the standard pentium values
are,
what I decode from the table is:

JP1 is the FSB setting... 50 1-2,3-4
60 1-2
and 66 3-4

JP7 is the multiplier 1.5x 1-2,3-4
2.0x 3-4,5-6
2.5x 5-6,7-8
and 3.0x 1-2,7-8

You can't overclock the FSB but you can try setting your 200MMX to 233.
Problem is, it's probably either multiplier locked or limited so it may
not
work (might boot at a slower speed or not at all).

Anyway, the 'secret' to it is that, to get 233 in the MMX line, Intel
redefined 1.5x to be 3.5x since there is no MMX processor that uses the
1.5x setting (it's the processor that determines what the multiplier
jumpers mean). Hence, try setting JP7 to 1-2,3-4 with everything else
the
same as it is now for your 200MMX. If it isn't multiplier locked, or
limited, that should tell it to run 3.5 x 66(.6666...) for 233Mhz.

Good luck.

boy, you realy made me happy, when i read your posting
but this silly mobo does not accept anything above x3 clock multiply.
when i set jp7 to 1-2, 3-4 and turn the power on, it started the
porcessor at 166MHz.
no luck for me. the MB production time is 1996, no support for p233mmx
neither.
i have tryed almost all posible jumper setings. seems the logic on the
board is fixed.

anyway, thaks a lot

Vasko

Food for though:

Intel Data for Pentium® processor with
MMXT technology

Core and bus frequencies can be set according to
Table 3 below. Each Pentium processor with MMX
technology specified to operate within a single
bus-to-core ratio and a specific minimum to
maximum bus frequency range (corresponding to a
minimum to maximum core frequency range).
Operation in other bus-to-core ratios or outside
the specified operating frequency range is not
supported. For example, the 166 MHz Pentium processor
with MMX technology does not operate beyond the
66 MHz bus frequency and only supports the 2/5
bus-to-core ratio; it does not support the 1/3, 1/2,
or 2/3 bus-to-core ratios. Table 3 clarifies and
summarizes these specifications.


Table 3. Bus Frequency Selections

BF1 BF0 Bus/Core Max Bus/Core Min Bus/Core
Ratio Freq (MHz) Freq (MHz)
0 1 1/3 66/200 33/100
0 0 2/5 66/166 33/83
1 0 1/2 (1,2) N/A (2) N/A (2)
1 1 2/7 66/233 33/117

NOTES:

1. This is the default bus to core ratio for
the Pentium® processor with MMXT technology. If
the BF pins are left floating, the processor will
be configured for the 1/2 bus to core frequency ratio.

2. Currently, there are no products that support
these bus fractions.

If the board supports MMX and the Vcore goes to
2.2v why not try and find an AMD K62-400
The multiplier is remapped so X 2 = X6
so 66MHz X 6=400

Smiffy

"Vasko Altiparmakov" wrote in message
om...
greetings

i have a p200mmx on a AOpen i430HX motherboard. the system is rock
stable.
nowa days i cannot do moutch with it and i have decided to overclock
the system no matter the cost. i was hopeing to raise the fsb to 75MHz
on a clock multiply by 3, but either i don't know how to do it either
it is impossible.

now i hope you could help me to overclock it, if possible. i would
like to try 66MHz x4, but the board does not have a way, as i can see,
to set the clock multiply to anything above x3

i have tryed more than once to modify the jumpers that i beleve are
responsible for the fsb clock to set them at 75MHz, but the board
logic ignores everything, probably considering that as a mistake, and
POSTs at normal 66MHz at x3.

here is the info on the MB's jumpers
http://www.aopen.com/tech/jumper/ap5k/default.htm
apparently the board does not support p233mmx.
i have flashed the BIOS with the most recent update, five years ago

Vasko



Atx case and power supply 40
Motherboard slot 1 BX 15
Cpu celeron 300 slot 1 o/c 450 15
128 mb sdram 30
Vid card VIVO AGP 20

Check eBay
newegg
computer geeks

Lane

Vasko Altiparmakov wrote:
David Maynard wrote in message
...

Vasko Altiparmakov wrote:


I tried to find the specs for an ap5K but it ain't easy on their site.
Nearest I could locate with that chipset was the ap53.

At any rate, looking at the table and doing some decoding, what I come
up with is that the motherboard's maximum FSB is 66 Mhz (which matches
what the ap53 data sheet said), and two lower ones, 50 and 60. The
P-75 setting you see is 1.5 x 50 Mhz. But knowing what the standard
pentium values are, what I decode from the table is:

JP1 is the FSB setting... 50 1-2,3-4 60 1-2 and
66 3-4

JP7 is the multiplier 1.5x 1-2,3-4 2.0x 3-4,5-6 2.5x 5-6,7-8
and 3.0x 1-2,7-8

You can't overclock the FSB but you can try setting your 200MMX to
233. Problem is, it's probably either multiplier locked or limited so
it may not work (might boot at a slower speed or not at all).

Anyway, the 'secret' to it is that, to get 233 in the MMX line, Intel
redefined 1.5x to be 3.5x since there is no MMX processor that uses
the 1.5x setting (it's the processor that determines what the
multiplier jumpers mean). Hence, try setting JP7 to 1-2,3-4 with
everything else the same as it is now for your 200MMX. If it isn't
multiplier locked, or limited, that should tell it to run 3.5 x
66(.6666...) for 233Mhz.

Good luck.


boy, you realy made me happy, when i read your posting but this silly
mobo does not accept anything above x3 clock multiply. when i set jp7 to
1-2, 3-4 and turn the power on, it started the porcessor at 166MHz. no
luck for me. the MB production time is 1996, no support for p233mmx
neither. i have tryed almost all posible jumper setings. seems the logic
on the board is fixed.

A couple of things. First, as I mentioned, what the multiplier 'means' is
determined by the processor and not the motherboard. that, btw, is why
multiplier locking works.

Now, the motherboard probably determines what it THINKS the processor is
running at by the jumper setting so if it thinks 1.5x is 1.5x then it will
probably say that on the post screen regardless of what the actual speed
is. But that would be 100 Mhz. Lord knows what it thinks an MMX set to 1.5
is because, to it, that doesn't exist; so it could say 'anything', and
having the post screen 'lie' isn't unusual, or a problem. I'd suggest you
try it again and test with something else, either a CPUID or benchmark
program (run with and compared to the original settings). Note, if
everything is running 233, a 16.5% increase, the best improvement a
benchmark is going to show you is about 7 to 8% because those older
processors with no on-die cache do not scale with FSB like the on-chip
cache jobs do. You get about half the speed increase in actual performance
increase.

The other possibility is the processor is multiplier limited and that's
what you would see: it running at some 'lower' speed (rather than always at
the 'lock' speed when they're locked).

You could also simply buy a 233MMX or a K6-266 (not K6-2) for around 20
bucks but, frankly, unless you have something specific that is just a 'tad'
bit short of running fast enough then an 8 to 16% speed increase isn't
going to be noticeable.

If you still want some performance increase though, check your swap file
usage in system monitor (I presume you're on either win95 or win98). If
it's using much then more RAM would help as disk access is WAY slower than
RAM and that'll show up in usability MUCH more than a few percent of CPU
power.

For generic performance tuning tips, put the swap file (virtual memory) on
permanent settings in 'System - Performance' rather than windows managed
and set it to 1.5x your RAM size for both Min AND Max. When they are equal
Windows makes it a contiguous swap file and that speeds up access to it.
Also regularly defrag the disk as that also improves disk access.

Uninstall any programs you do not use any more, especially large or complex
ones, as they add size to the registry, which slows registry access down
(and the system reads it all the time), and they load in their DLLs,
whether used or not, which sucks up RAM for no purpose. Get rid of unused
frills that load into background, or in the systray. They're just using up
RAM and CPU time. And use the normal START menu, or desktop shortcuts,
rather than systray (not talking about the quick launch menu on the task
bar, the systray on the right) 'quick launch' icons, like the one for
Netscape. Netscape loads 'faster' (sic) from there because the dern thing
is keeping half of itself in memory if you let it provide that
'convenience' loader. And if you're using the latest version of EzCDCreator
the thing has filled memory with all sorts of 'extras' you probably don't
use. If so, use a simpler CD burning program.

As you can see, there are a lot of things you can do to speed things up
that don't take hardware and you'll be amazed at how much speed is used up
with unused junk.



anyway, thaks a lot

Vasko

"David Maynard" wrote in message
...
Vasko Altiparmakov wrote:
David Maynard wrote in message
...

Vasko Altiparmakov wrote:


I tried to find the specs for an ap5K but it ain't easy on their site.
Nearest I could locate with that chipset was the ap53.

At any rate, looking at the table and doing some decoding, what I come
up with is that the motherboard's maximum FSB is 66 Mhz (which matches
what the ap53 data sheet said), and two lower ones, 50 and 60. The
P-75 setting you see is 1.5 x 50 Mhz. But knowing what the standard
pentium values are, what I decode from the table is:

JP1 is the FSB setting... 50 1-2,3-4 60 1-2 and
66 3-4

JP7 is the multiplier 1.5x 1-2,3-4 2.0x 3-4,5-6 2.5x 5-6,7-8
and 3.0x 1-2,7-8

You can't overclock the FSB but you can try setting your 200MMX to
233. Problem is, it's probably either multiplier locked or limited so
it may not work (might boot at a slower speed or not at all).

Anyway, the 'secret' to it is that, to get 233 in the MMX line, Intel
redefined 1.5x to be 3.5x since there is no MMX processor that uses
the 1.5x setting (it's the processor that determines what the
multiplier jumpers mean). Hence, try setting JP7 to 1-2,3-4 with
everything else the same as it is now for your 200MMX. If it isn't
multiplier locked, or limited, that should tell it to run 3.5 x
66(.6666...) for 233Mhz.

Good luck.


boy, you realy made me happy, when i read your posting but this
silly
mobo does not accept anything above x3 clock multiply. when i set jp7
to
1-2, 3-4 and turn the power on, it started the porcessor at 166MHz. no
luck for me. the MB production time is 1996, no support for p233mmx
neither. i have tryed almost all posible jumper setings. seems the
logic
on the board is fixed.

A couple of things. First, as I mentioned, what the multiplier 'means' is
determined by the processor and not the motherboard. that, btw, is why
multiplier locking works.

Now, the motherboard probably determines what it THINKS the processor is
running at by the jumper setting so if it thinks 1.5x is 1.5x then it will
probably say that on the post screen regardless of what the actual speed
is. But that would be 100 Mhz. Lord knows what it thinks an MMX set to 1.5
is because, to it, that doesn't exist; so it could say 'anything', and
having the post screen 'lie' isn't unusual, or a problem. I'd suggest you
try it again and test with something else, either a CPUID or benchmark
program (run with and compared to the original settings). Note, if
everything is running 233, a 16.5% increase, the best improvement a
benchmark is going to show you is about 7 to 8% because those older
processors with no on-die cache do not scale with FSB like the on-chip
cache jobs do. You get about half the speed increase in actual performance
increase.

The other possibility is the processor is multiplier limited and that's
what you would see: it running at some 'lower' speed (rather than always
at
the 'lock' speed when they're locked).

You could also simply buy a 233MMX or a K6-266 (not K6-2) for around 20
bucks but, frankly, unless you have something specific that is just a
'tad'
bit short of running fast enough then an 8 to 16% speed increase isn't
going to be noticeable.

If you still want some performance increase though, check your swap file
usage in system monitor (I presume you're on either win95 or win98). If
it's using much then more RAM would help as disk access is WAY slower than
RAM and that'll show up in usability MUCH more than a few percent of CPU
power.

For generic performance tuning tips, put the swap file (virtual memory) on
permanent settings in 'System - Performance' rather than windows managed
and set it to 1.5x your RAM size for both Min AND Max. When they are equal
Windows makes it a contiguous swap file and that speeds up access to it.
Also regularly defrag the disk as that also improves disk access.

Uninstall any programs you do not use any more, especially large or
complex
ones, as they add size to the registry, which slows registry access down
(and the system reads it all the time), and they load in their DLLs,
whether used or not, which sucks up RAM for no purpose. Get rid of unused
frills that load into background, or in the systray. They're just using up
RAM and CPU time. And use the normal START menu, or desktop shortcuts,
rather than systray (not talking about the quick launch menu on the task
bar, the systray on the right) 'quick launch' icons, like the one for
Netscape. Netscape loads 'faster' (sic) from there because the dern thing
is keeping half of itself in memory if you let it provide that
'convenience' loader. And if you're using the latest version of
EzCDCreator
the thing has filled memory with all sorts of 'extras' you probably don't
use. If so, use a simpler CD burning program.

As you can see, there are a lot of things you can do to speed things up
that don't take hardware and you'll be amazed at how much speed is used up
with unused junk.



anyway, thaks a lot

Vasko


The genreric "use 1.5x your RAM size" for swap file advice is not too smart,
as there is a reciprocal relation between available physical ram install and
the need for swapping, for a 64MB system there would be greater need in swap
file then in 512MB, assuming similar usage. a far better advice wouls be
checking with system info (or any 3rd party solution) how much swapping
occurs and estimating the total system memory requirements, subtracting
installed memory, and using that as a guide. THEN, setting the minimum to
about that guide number (some prefer "rounding" to nearest 32MB), and there
is really no need to set maximum. in the rare case more is needed, windows
will be able to adjust swap file size upwards, and especially when only
esimating memory needs, it's not wise locking it from the top side. it's
setting minimum that takes care of having a contigous and permanent swap
file, not setting both as same.
(the rest of those general advices are as correct as i can judge), if you
have more than one physical drive, best is to benchmark and putting swapfile
on the faster drove, perferably in the first partition of that drive. in any
case it's wise putting it aside from system partition, but a having it on a
different IDE channel is best.