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Power supply, Motherboard, or something else?
I've only had keyboards affected by "spilled beverage syndrome" - It must be
contagious, since I've had several so affected. ...never an actual machine, however. ...having moved overseas 2 years ago, I did get a hard lesson about carefully reading the electrical labels on computer related equipment. After reading several labels that specified 110-240 volt 50-60 mHZ input, where all had removable power cords permitting me to simply swap out the US cord for an Australian one to handle 240 volt, I more quickly looked at my Dell printer that said 50-60 mHz so I assumed it would handle 240 volt also, especially since the cord was interchangeable. The printer worked fine for about 2 seconds with 240 volt input. Afterward a large cloud of white smoke and terrible smell emerged. I found out that printer power supplies are not interchangeable like in a computer and so that ended the life of my Dell printer. If I would only have noticed the label more carefully, I could have run it off a voltage converter. Thanks for the input about the pico. At this point, I might hold off on doing anything with this machine since I have 2 others that are faster and also a nice lian li case that's several years old that needs some updated components, since it's a bit slow for today's standards. I'll likely move the Zalman's components over to the other case, which already has a nice PS. "Paul" wrote in message ... Jeff wrote: I received the following suggested work-around for an external power supply (the two links below) from the place I bought the case from a few years ago. I might go for it at some point, but for now I have other machines to use. One was built in a Moneual case. As I was reading up on this issue, I came across some info on Zalman that elaborates upon what you've mentioned below. Apparently, Moneual bought Zalman and then the CEOs engaged in some type of fraud where they were claiming much higher sales than they actually had. From what was claimed in the article I read on-line, this was done on purpose in order to default on loans and use the money for other reasons. So now when I look up Moneual to get info on my case, the only thing they are currently selling is robotic vacuum cleaners. Bizarre. By the way, I did hook up my Zalman machine to another power supply and it booted just fine. I'll have to learn to use a meter in the future. Thanks for the help and info. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...age_o04_s00?ie =UTF8&psc=1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...age_o04_s00?ie =UTF8&psc=1 "Paul" wrote in message . The sad part is, the state of the Zalman business right now. They were bought by some other corporation, then the other corporation had financial trouble. It's expected Zalman could survive, but I don't know in the interim, what it might mean for customer service. And whether you could still contact them for suggestions. The specs for that one are on page 3. Note well some of the operating conditions. http://www.mini-itx.com/store/inform...PSU-150-XT.pdf "For fanless operation de-rate the output of the 3.3 and 5V rails by ~35% or ensure PSU surface temperature should not exceed 65C, whichever comes first. Input current should not exceed 8A. For current higher loads, we suggest using a 2x2 mini-FIT JR as an input connector. " It doesn't regulate the 12V onboard. The adapter feeding it handles the +12V. The 8A rating is a "wires and connectors" rating, and the warning there is to use good interconnect getting current into the Pico and out of the Pico. The other rails regulate onboard and generate heat while doing so. It generates +3.3V, +5V, +5VSB (standby supply), -12V (for RS232 port). It's highly efficient, but it also has no surface area, so the convection cooling is not going to be all that good. And 65C, if you stick a finger on it, your finger can only stay there for a second or two. That's a quick way to guestimate what 65C is. ******* The only time I'd use a Pico, is if space was at a premium. The difference with supplies like this, is the power-dissipating components usually have a slightly bigger heatsink. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151097 http://c1.neweggimages.com/BizIntell...51-097/12v.jpg 3,3V 20A, 5V 20A, 12V 33A, -12V 0.5A, 5VSB 2.5A ---- 100W ---- --------------------- 400W ------------------ If you're in-range for a Pico, maybe that can indeed run fanless with that tiny loading. If you actually wanted to run it at "399W", then I would slap a Vantec Stealth cooling fan to the top of the PSU, and give it forced air cooling. When you use convection cooling, conditions matter a lot. If you put that Seasonic *inside* the Zalman case, it would likely cook. (It would have thermal protection, so would shut off as a warning things aren't going well.) If retrofitting to the Zalman, I would mount it on the outside. Then look at the heatsinks on the unit, to optimize the convection process. The hardest part, is protecting the supply from "spilled beverage syndrome". One poster here had an issue like that, when a computer case with holes in the top, a beverage was spilled and it entered the power supply, to the tune of a lot of sizzling from the mains electricity. And obviously, fitting any kind of "lid" over the Zalman, spoils the convection. The first product I worked on out of university, it was convection cooled. And a lot of effort went into designing louvers to shape the available convection airflow, to do the best we could with absolutely crappy cooling conditions. Lucky for us, the boards that did the work in the product used ECL, which loves to run hot. (Heat was like a "lubricant" for that old bipolar stuff - if you burned yourself touching a ceramic chip lid, that was in the right range. It was "warmed up" :-) ) If only CMOS was so happy-go-lucky. Paul |
#22
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Power supply, Motherboard, or something else?
I've only had keyboards affected by "spilled beverage syndrome" - It must be
contagious, since I've had several so affected. ...never an actual machine, however. ...having moved overseas 2 years ago, I did get a hard lesson about carefully reading the electrical labels on computer related equipment. After reading several labels that specified 110-240 volt 50-60 mHZ input, where all had removable power cords permitting me to simply swap out the US cord for an Australian one to handle 240 volt, I more quickly looked at my Dell printer that said 50-60 mHz so I assumed it would handle 240 volt also, especially since the cord was interchangeable. The printer worked fine for about 2 seconds with 240 volt input. Afterward a large cloud of white smoke and terrible smell emerged. I found out that printer power supplies are not interchangeable like in a computer and so that ended the life of my Dell printer. If I would only have noticed the label more carefully, I could have run it off a voltage converter. Thanks for the input about the pico. At this point, I might hold off on doing anything with this machine since I have 2 others that are faster and also a nice lian li case that's several years old that needs some updated components, since it's a bit slow for today's standards. I'll likely move the Zalman's components over to the other case, which already has a nice PS. "Paul" wrote in message ... Jeff wrote: I received the following suggested work-around for an external power supply (the two links below) from the place I bought the case from a few years ago. I might go for it at some point, but for now I have other machines to use. One was built in a Moneual case. As I was reading up on this issue, I came across some info on Zalman that elaborates upon what you've mentioned below. Apparently, Moneual bought Zalman and then the CEOs engaged in some type of fraud where they were claiming much higher sales than they actually had. From what was claimed in the article I read on-line, this was done on purpose in order to default on loans and use the money for other reasons. So now when I look up Moneual to get info on my case, the only thing they are currently selling is robotic vacuum cleaners. Bizarre. By the way, I did hook up my Zalman machine to another power supply and it booted just fine. I'll have to learn to use a meter in the future. Thanks for the help and info. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...age_o04_s00?ie =UTF8&psc=1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...age_o04_s00?ie =UTF8&psc=1 "Paul" wrote in message . The sad part is, the state of the Zalman business right now. They were bought by some other corporation, then the other corporation had financial trouble. It's expected Zalman could survive, but I don't know in the interim, what it might mean for customer service. And whether you could still contact them for suggestions. The specs for that one are on page 3. Note well some of the operating conditions. http://www.mini-itx.com/store/inform...PSU-150-XT.pdf "For fanless operation de-rate the output of the 3.3 and 5V rails by ~35% or ensure PSU surface temperature should not exceed 65C, whichever comes first. Input current should not exceed 8A. For current higher loads, we suggest using a 2x2 mini-FIT JR as an input connector. " It doesn't regulate the 12V onboard. The adapter feeding it handles the +12V. The 8A rating is a "wires and connectors" rating, and the warning there is to use good interconnect getting current into the Pico and out of the Pico. The other rails regulate onboard and generate heat while doing so. It generates +3.3V, +5V, +5VSB (standby supply), -12V (for RS232 port). It's highly efficient, but it also has no surface area, so the convection cooling is not going to be all that good. And 65C, if you stick a finger on it, your finger can only stay there for a second or two. That's a quick way to guestimate what 65C is. ******* The only time I'd use a Pico, is if space was at a premium. The difference with supplies like this, is the power-dissipating components usually have a slightly bigger heatsink. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151097 http://c1.neweggimages.com/BizIntell...51-097/12v.jpg 3,3V 20A, 5V 20A, 12V 33A, -12V 0.5A, 5VSB 2.5A ---- 100W ---- --------------------- 400W ------------------ If you're in-range for a Pico, maybe that can indeed run fanless with that tiny loading. If you actually wanted to run it at "399W", then I would slap a Vantec Stealth cooling fan to the top of the PSU, and give it forced air cooling. When you use convection cooling, conditions matter a lot. If you put that Seasonic *inside* the Zalman case, it would likely cook. (It would have thermal protection, so would shut off as a warning things aren't going well.) If retrofitting to the Zalman, I would mount it on the outside. Then look at the heatsinks on the unit, to optimize the convection process. The hardest part, is protecting the supply from "spilled beverage syndrome". One poster here had an issue like that, when a computer case with holes in the top, a beverage was spilled and it entered the power supply, to the tune of a lot of sizzling from the mains electricity. And obviously, fitting any kind of "lid" over the Zalman, spoils the convection. The first product I worked on out of university, it was convection cooled. And a lot of effort went into designing louvers to shape the available convection airflow, to do the best we could with absolutely crappy cooling conditions. Lucky for us, the boards that did the work in the product used ECL, which loves to run hot. (Heat was like a "lubricant" for that old bipolar stuff - if you burned yourself touching a ceramic chip lid, that was in the right range. It was "warmed up" :-) ) If only CMOS was so happy-go-lucky. Paul |
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