Is it OK for retailers to sell engineering sample chips??

I bought a chip from an online retailer, and the page and product
description did NOT mention that this chip was an engineering sample
(which it turned out to be.) Here is the description:

"Intel Pentium D 950 3.4GHz 2x2MB (4MB) Dual Core 800Mhz Socket LGA 775
- OEM + FREE HEATSINK/FAN!!!

Mfg. Part No.: PD 950/3.4/4M/800/775

Product Code: CPPD-PD950OEM"

I spoke with them on the phone and they claim that these chips are OK
to sell, and that major manufacturers use these in their machines...
Yet it has "INTEL CONFIDENTIAL" written right on the front. The chip
has ES in the model number, SisSoft Sandra & CPU-Z say it's an
engineering sample as well, Sandra shows this as a warning.

Is it legal for retailers to sell these chips? Shouldn't they be
required to tell me that it's an Engineering Sample? If anyone has a
link to Intel documentation indicating if these should be for sale or
not would be very much appreciated. At this point, I want my money
back. I don't know if it could have defects due to being an early
version, if it could have been used for benchmarking/overclocking/etc.
before I bought it, and so on... But they seem to think this is fine
to do.

wrote:
I bought a chip from an online retailer, and the page and product
description did NOT mention that this chip was an engineering sample
(which it turned out to be.) Here is the description:

"Intel Pentium D 950 3.4GHz 2x2MB (4MB) Dual Core 800Mhz Socket LGA
775 - OEM + FREE HEATSINK/FAN!!!

Mfg. Part No.: PD 950/3.4/4M/800/775

Product Code: CPPD-PD950OEM"

I spoke with them on the phone and they claim that these chips are OK
to sell, and that major manufacturers use these in their machines...
Yet it has "INTEL CONFIDENTIAL" written right on the front. The chip
has ES in the model number, SisSoft Sandra & CPU-Z say it's an
engineering sample as well, Sandra shows this as a warning.

Is it legal for retailers to sell these chips? Shouldn't they be
required to tell me that it's an Engineering Sample? If anyone has a
link to Intel documentation indicating if these should be for sale or
not would be very much appreciated. At this point, I want my money
back. I don't know if it could have defects due to being an early
version, if it could have been used for benchmarking/overclocking/etc.
before I bought it, and so on... But they seem to think this is fine
to do.

No, they're not allowed to sell q-spec samples.

Engineering samples can go through a number of revisions before becoming
production s-spec silicon, so may be lacking in certain features - e.g. EIST
disabled etc etc

A bit more info below.

http://www.intel.com/support/process.../cs-001616.htm

On the upside its unlikely to be clock locked so should be easily
overclockable.


--
Cheerz - Brownz
http://www.brownz.org/

Thanks for the link! I also talked to Intel technical support and they
told me these chips were NOT to be sold, and were supposed to be
destroyed after testing. I gave them the name of the online merchant
and they are escalating the ticket in order to investigate how this
chip got to a retail store.

Brownz (mobile) wrote:
wrote:
I bought a chip from an online retailer, and the page and product
description did NOT mention that this chip was an engineering sample
(which it turned out to be.) Here is the description:

"Intel Pentium D 950 3.4GHz 2x2MB (4MB) Dual Core 800Mhz Socket LGA
775 - OEM + FREE HEATSINK/FAN!!!

Mfg. Part No.: PD 950/3.4/4M/800/775

Product Code: CPPD-PD950OEM"

I spoke with them on the phone and they claim that these chips are OK
to sell, and that major manufacturers use these in their machines...
Yet it has "INTEL CONFIDENTIAL" written right on the front. The chip
has ES in the model number, SisSoft Sandra & CPU-Z say it's an
engineering sample as well, Sandra shows this as a warning.

Is it legal for retailers to sell these chips? Shouldn't they be
required to tell me that it's an Engineering Sample? If anyone has a
link to Intel documentation indicating if these should be for sale or
not would be very much appreciated. At this point, I want my money
back. I don't know if it could have defects due to being an early
version, if it could have been used for benchmarking/overclocking/etc.
before I bought it, and so on... But they seem to think this is fine
to do.

No, they're not allowed to sell q-spec samples.

Engineering samples can go through a number of revisions before becoming
production s-spec silicon, so may be lacking in certain features - e.g. EIST
disabled etc etc

A bit more info below.

http://www.intel.com/support/process.../cs-001616.htm

On the upside its unlikely to be clock locked so should be easily
overclockable.


--
Cheerz - Brownz
http://www.brownz.org/

At this point, the merchant is refusing to take it back (sighting a 30
day warranty when their website says 90) even though it is an
engineering sample and they shouldn't have sold it in the first
palce. Anyone know if I have a course of action with these people? I
got confirmation from Intel that these chips weren't to be sold, but
they refuse to take it back...

See their response:

Kyle,

The product was advertised as an OEM product, which means that the CPU
is not retail. Accordingly, the specs of the CPU matches exactly what
was advertised; at this point, the CPU is out of warranty and we cannot
accept returns on it. All CPUs have a 30 day warranty from the date of
invoice.

Thank you.
Sincerely,
Customer Service
Stalliontek.com

- Hide quoted text -
----- Original Message -----
From: Kyle Kvech
To: ;
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 5:28 PM
Subject: PLEASE RESPOND

This is my second email, please respond:

I purchased a Pentium D 950 from stalliontek.com about a month and a
half ago, and yesterday I discovered that it is in fact an engineering
sample and not a production chip. Please see attached screenshots of
CPU-Z, Sandra, and a photo of the chip itself. What is interesting is
the fact that the description for this product did not say it was an
engineering sample, however the printed invoice contains 'ES' in the
model number, indicating that I was sold an engineering sample.

I have contacted Intel and they have confirmed that:

1) The chip is in fact an Engineering Sample
2) Engineering samples are in no way supported by Intel and are NOT to
be used for any purpose other than engineering / product testing
3) Engineering samples may not be up to spec with production units
4) Engineering samples are to be destroyed, and are NOT to be resold

In addition to that, I have concerns that I was sold this chip and not
told it was an engineering sample. Since it is an engineering sample,
I do not know the origin of this chip, if it was used for benchmark
tests, if it was overclocked, put through stress tests, etc. Here are
some excerpts from the Intel documentation on engineering sample chips:

"Engineering sample processors are available to those who qualify for,
and obtain, a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). An Intel® Authorized
Distributor can assist with the application to obtain an NDA. There are
no other means to obtain sample processors from Intel "

"These processors are not packaged or labeled for sale to consumers,
and may incur damage when tested by system builders."

"Engineering samples are not supported by Intel Customer Support and
are not eligible for warranty service."

I am requesting a complete and immediate refund for this purchase, as
well as for you to pay for return shipping.

Sincerely,
Kyle Kvech

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:56:20 -0700, kyle.kvech wrote:

At this point, the merchant is refusing to take it back (sighting a 30
day warranty when their website says 90) even though it is an
engineering sample and they shouldn't have sold it in the first
palce. Anyone know if I have a course of action with these people? I
got confirmation from Intel that these chips weren't to be sold, but
they refuse to take it back...

See their response:

Kyle,

The product was advertised as an OEM product, which means that the CPU
is not retail. Accordingly, the specs of the CPU matches exactly what
was advertised; at this point, the CPU is out of warranty and we cannot
accept returns on it. All CPUs have a 30 day warranty from the date of
invoice.

Thank you.
Sincerely,
Customer Service
Stalliontek.com

- Hide quoted text -
----- Original Message -----
From: Kyle Kvech
To: ;
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 5:28 PM
Subject: PLEASE RESPOND

This is my second email, please respond:

I purchased a Pentium D 950 from stalliontek.com about a month and a
half ago, and yesterday I discovered that it is in fact an engineering
sample and not a production chip. Please see attached screenshots of
CPU-Z, Sandra, and a photo of the chip itself. What is interesting is
the fact that the description for this product did not say it was an
engineering sample, however the printed invoice contains 'ES' in the
model number, indicating that I was sold an engineering sample.

I have contacted Intel and they have confirmed that:

1) The chip is in fact an Engineering Sample
2) Engineering samples are in no way supported by Intel and are NOT to
be used for any purpose other than engineering / product testing
3) Engineering samples may not be up to spec with production units
4) Engineering samples are to be destroyed, and are NOT to be resold

In addition to that, I have concerns that I was sold this chip and not
told it was an engineering sample. Since it is an engineering sample,
I do not know the origin of this chip, if it was used for benchmark
tests, if it was overclocked, put through stress tests, etc. Here are
some excerpts from the Intel documentation on engineering sample chips:

"Engineering sample processors are available to those who qualify for,
and obtain, a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). An Intel® Authorized
Distributor can assist with the application to obtain an NDA. There are
no other means to obtain sample processors from Intel "

"These processors are not packaged or labeled for sale to consumers,
and may incur damage when tested by system builders."

"Engineering samples are not supported by Intel Customer Support and
are not eligible for warranty service."

I am requesting a complete and immediate refund for this purchase, as
well as for you to pay for return shipping.

Sincerely,
Kyle Kvech

Your only practical course of action is to give them a bad reseller rating
on every site that you can find. It sounds like you've already contacted
Intel although it's unlikely they can do anything about this because the
dealer that you bought this from is buying from distributors and the grey
market and not from Intel directly. Forget about legal action, it's not
worth a lawyers time. In the future buy from a respectable dealer like
Newegg.

wrote:

At this point, the merchant is refusing to take it back (sighting a 30
day warranty when their website says 90) even though it is an
engineering sample and they shouldn't have sold it in the first
palce. Anyone know if I have a course of action with these people? I
got confirmation from Intel that these chips weren't to be sold, but
they refuse to take it back...

See their response:

Kyle,

The product was advertised as an OEM product, which means that the CPU
is not retail. Accordingly, the specs of the CPU matches exactly what
was advertised; at this point, the CPU is out of warranty and we cannot
accept returns on it. All CPUs have a 30 day warranty from the date of
invoice.

Thank you.
Sincerely,
Customer Service
Stalliontek.com


At this point, if the CPU works and fulfils your needs, then
use it. If your motherboard has flexible settings for the CPU
multiplier, then you have a free ticket to over-clocking. Just
be careful how this capability is used. Enjoy the ES, while you
can.