press 4 to unlock core

Having 'increasing' probs with my 8-core AMD destktop.
The board is an asus-xhair-IV

Boot often doesn't even begin and pops the subject
error message which includes "or F.. to load defaults"
and words of this nature.

CPU temps never above 50c.

BIOS should come up by touching "Del" but it takes a dozen
attempts for that to work with my new usb gaming keyboard.

This morning bios just would not detect 2 of my data drives
in sata slots 3 & 4 (using a 5-bay rack with 1-4 sata reserved).

After I don't know how many reboots bios still wasn't detecting
but "fdisk -l" finally picked one of them up.

On the last boot bios detected it too, got it mounted, and
it's presently taking 1tb of backups.

I would just like some ballpark hunches to start with, what
do symptoms like this suggest? Mobo, rack, bios?

bad sector wrote:

Having 'increasing' probs with my 8-core AMD destktop.
The board is an asus-xhair-IV
/
No, it's "Crosshair" --- but which model is unspecified.

If you want to severely narrow down the responses to only those that
have this product to know you meant crosshair instead of x then don't
use abbreviations that would be uncertain to other users. In order for
other users (not of this particular motherboard) to be able to lookup
the product to know what it is to help you, don't make them guess as to
what you have.

From what I found in searches, the product's name could be:

ASUS Crosshair IV Formula
or
ASUS Crosshair IV Extreme

Didn't know which to pick, so I first picked the Formula product. That
was introduced around April 2010. Then I checked on the Extreme model
which looks like it came out around November 2010. From forum posts,
looks like both were discontinued around 2014 (replaced by Rampage).
You didn't say how old is whichever one that you have. At 10 years old,
that is way too long for the CMOS battery. Even at 6 years, CMOS
batteries go weak or die by then. I replace mine about every 3-4 years.

During boot, the settings from the battery-powered CMOS table are used,
if usable, but if corrupt then the BIOS will try to retrieve the
defaults stored in the EEPROM chip(s).

It's a cheap troubleshooting step for an old computer exhibiting boot
problems: buy a CR-2032 coin cell battery, and replace the old and
likely dead one in the computer on the motherboard. Since both the
Formula and Extreme models are motherboards for desktop PCs, replacing
the CMOS battery is easy. Laptops are a bitch.

Boot often doesn't even begin and pops the subject
error message which includes "or F.. to load defaults"
and words of this nature.

The CMOS battery is probably dead. It cannot maintain the contents of
the CMOS table, so the contents of that table are corrupt or invalid
forcing the BIOS to load the defaults from the EEPROMs. Replace the
CMOS battery, reset the BIOS (use a jumper to short the 2-pin header on
the motherboard) to ensure the defaults get loaded into the CMOS table,
and retest.

I would just like some ballpark hunches to start with, what
do symptoms like this suggest? Mobo, rack, bios?

Most likely needs a new CR-2032 battery. I get a bunch of them at a
time for cheap at eBay, but make sure you aren't buying counterfeits
there. Ask the seller if the pic they show in their auction is of the
product, or a stock photo. If a pic of the actual product for sale,
often the packaging will indicate authentic or counterfeit (and there
are sites showing you pics of authentic vs counterfeit packaging). I
have lots of devices using the CR-2032 batteries, so I buy a bunch to
replace them all or have spares on hand when they die off. At Walmart,
it'll cost more (~$5), but you only need the 1 for the mobo for another
4 to 6 years before needing to replace it again. I usually stick with
Sony for the coin cell batteries.

On 2020-10-22 15:41, VanguardLH wrote:
bad sector wrote:

Having 'increasing' probs with my 8-core AMD destktop.
The board is an asus-xhair-IV
/
No, it's "Crosshair" --- but which model is unspecified.

If you want to severely narrow down the responses to only those that
have this product to know you meant crosshair instead of x then don't
use abbreviations that would be uncertain to other users. In order for
other users (not of this particular motherboard) to be able to lookup
the product to know what it is to help you, don't make them guess as to
what you have.

Noted, my sincere apologies.

From what I found in searches, the product's name could be:

ASUS Crosshair IV Formula
or
ASUS Crosshair IV Extreme

it's Crosshair IV Formula


The CMOS battery is probably dead. It cannot maintain the contents of
the CMOS table, so the contents of that table are corrupt or invalid
forcing the BIOS to load the defaults from the EEPROMs. Replace the
CMOS battery, reset the BIOS (use a jumper to short the 2-pin header on
the motherboard) to ensure the defaults get loaded into the CMOS table,
and retest.

I put a new one in it, no cigar, same problems

bad sector wrote:

BIOS should come up by touching "Del" but it takes a dozen
attempts for that to work with my new usb gaming keyboard.

USB is a polled interface. PS/2 is an interrupt-driven interface. If
the computer gets super busy, the USB device may not get its chance at
the next polling interval, and why USB keyboards can lag in video games
compared to PS/2 keyboards. Just because a product says "gamer" in its
product name doesn't mean it really qualifies for that type of use.

Did the keyboard come with a USB-to-PS/2 adapter? If so, the keyboard
has the logic to switch between the different hardware protocols. If
your computer has a PS/2 port then I'd use that for the keyboard.
Gamers prefer PS/2 to USB because there is less delay or lag on
keypresses with PS/2, and PS/2 supports more concurrent keypresses than
USB. That's why some gamer mobos still come with a PS/2 port. Also, no
reason to toss the availability of a USB port if a PS/2 port is
available.

I found:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards...pecifications/

where it mentions one PS/2 port (for keyboard). If your USB gaming
keyboard came with a PS/2 adapter then it supports both USB and PS/2
hardware protocols (internal logic has it switch between them). If the
keyboard did not include a PS/2 adapter, it is a USB-only keyboard. You
cannot simply plug a USB-only keyboard into a PS/2 adapter since the
USB-only keyboard doesn't support the PS/2 hardware protocol. You can
get an active hub that converts from USB to PS/2 to let you connect a
USB-only keyboard to a PS/2 port, but those are more costly than just
getting a USB+PS/2 or PS/2 keyboard.

It has been a long time since I've seen this, but some old BIOSes must
be configured in their settings to "Support legacy devices" which
includes the PS/2 ports. If you see that setting in the BIOS then
enable it should you decide to get a PS/2 keyboard or get a USB+PS/2
keyboard and use the USB-to-PS/2 adapter.

Which USB "gamer" keyboard do you have?

On 2020-10-22 19:41, VanguardLH wrote:
bad sector wrote:

BIOS should come up by touching "Del" but it takes a dozen
attempts for that to work with my new usb gaming keyboard.

USB is a polled interface. PS/2 is an interrupt-driven interface. If
the computer gets super busy, the USB device may not get its chance at
the next polling interval, and why USB keyboards can lag in video games
compared to PS/2 keyboards. Just because a product says "gamer" in its
product name doesn't mean it really qualifies for that type of use.

Did the keyboard come with a USB-to-PS/2 adapter? If so, the keyboard
has the logic to switch between the different hardware protocols. If
your computer has a PS/2 port then I'd use that for the keyboard.
Gamers prefer PS/2 to USB because there is less delay or lag on
keypresses with PS/2, and PS/2 supports more concurrent keypresses than
USB. That's why some gamer mobos still come with a PS/2 port. Also, no
reason to toss the availability of a USB port if a PS/2 port is
available.

I found:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards...pecifications/

where it mentions one PS/2 port (for keyboard). If your USB gaming
keyboard came with a PS/2 adapter then it supports both USB and PS/2
hardware protocols (internal logic has it switch between them). If the
keyboard did not include a PS/2 adapter, it is a USB-only keyboard. You
cannot simply plug a USB-only keyboard into a PS/2 adapter since the
USB-only keyboard doesn't support the PS/2 hardware protocol. You can
get an active hub that converts from USB to PS/2 to let you connect a
USB-only keyboard to a PS/2 port, but those are more costly than just
getting a USB+PS/2 or PS/2 keyboard.

It has been a long time since I've seen this, but some old BIOSes must
be configured in their settings to "Support legacy devices" which
includes the PS/2 ports. If you see that setting in the BIOS then
enable it should you decide to get a PS/2 keyboard or get a USB+PS/2
keyboard and use the USB-to-PS/2 adapter.

Which USB "gamer" keyboard do you have?

Thanks for the in-depth report. The keyboard is DURGOD all-usb
gaming one that cost me about 5 times a cheapo and I would
have been better off with the cheapo. I can duplicate the problem
at will and either it or the mobo is a lemmon. The problem seems
to be at its worse early in the boot, like when I would wanna hit
"Del" to get to the bios, or very soon after that to arrow-key my
way to a boot menu entry. The problem ceases to exist if I launch
with the cheapo and then optionally swap in the DURGOD. There is
NO BOUBT, for some reason the cheapo does not have a detection
issue the DURGOD does. It could be a matter of the latter needing
just a little more time to be detected, beats me

Anyway that's anoter part of the mystery down for a total of two

bad sector wrote:

The keyboard is DURGOD all-usb gaming one ...

https://www.newegg.com/Gaming-Keyboa...ID-198575-3523

That lists several models of Durgod. Since Newegg doesn't show a PS/2
filter for that list, looks like none of them can be moved to a PS/2
port on the computer.

They ship from China, not from Newegg (so you cannot choose Newegg as
the seller to deal with them for returns/refunds). Newegg estimates
shipping time from 10 to 32 days. Expect more like 45 days to get past
Chinese customs. Apparently the seller does not have regional
warehouses in which they stock their wares to have them on hand for
shipping in that region (and outside of China since they already went
through customs to the regional warehouses). They don't even need their
own warehouse. There are companies that provide warehousing service.
In fact, I think the City of Industry, CA is nothing but warehouses.
I've dealt with other sellers where some common city is used for
regional warehousing by multiple companies.

... that cost me about 5 times a cheapo and I would have been better
off with the cheapo. I can duplicate the problem at will and either
it or the mobo is a lemmon. The problem seems to be at its worse
early in the boot, like when I would wanna hit "Del" to get to the
bios, or very soon after that to arrow-key my way to a boot menu
entry. The problem ceases to exist if I launch with the cheapo and
then optionally swap in the DURGOD. There is NO BOUBT, for some
reason the cheapo does not have a detection issue the DURGOD does. It
could be a matter of the latter needing just a little more time to be
detected, beats me

When did you buy the gamer keyboard? Maybe it's short enough that you
can return it as nonfunctional (flaky on boot). Newegg often lists the
warranty on the products sold by or through them, but not for Durgod. I
went to durgod.com, but found nothing there about a warranty period.

When the mobo is booted, the CPU gets reset and also sends out a reset
to all the hardware. That is to initialize all hardware to a known good
state. When you cold boot (not warm boot) the computer, do the LEDs on
the keyboard blink to indicate it got the reset signal?

Presumably you have already tried a different USB port.

Try blasting canned air between the keys. Then turn over the keyboard
(so the keys are down), hold one end with one hand, and slap the other
end on the keys. Repeat with the other hand on the other end of the
turned-over keyboard to slap with your other hand. This is to shake out
any debris inside the keyboard which could prevent the keys from making
full strokes. For each key, press it slowly and release slowly. Make
sure each goes through a full stroke with no resistance other than the
mechanical latch that generates the click.

Since the cheap USB-only keyboard does not inflict you with the same
defects as the expensive USB-only gamer keyboard, well, you've narrowed
the problem source to the USB-only gamer keyboard. Go back to using the
cheap keyboard, and either return the gamer keyboard for a refund,
return it for warranty replacement, or use as an expensive doorstop.

cheap USB-only keyboard: no problem.
gamer USB-only keyboard: problem exists.

Problem resolved. The gamer keyboard is farked.

On 2020-10-22 22:24, VanguardLH wrote:
bad sector wrote:

The keyboard is DURGOD all-usb gaming one ...

https://www.newegg.com/Gaming-Keyboa...ID-198575-3523

That lists several models of Durgod. Since Newegg doesn't show a PS/2
filter for that list, looks like none of them can be moved to a PS/2
port on the computer.

It's a Durgod Taurus k-320 (made in China), and
the reason I got it was that

- my old one broke a support
- I was up to here with num locks being ON by default
so I wanted a keyboard with NO numpad

It's a *good heavy mechanical* keyboard but
something in it makes it slow to be recognised.

As I said it's a problem ONLY in the very early
stages of boot, and

*I just realise now what that means*

...it's slow ONLY before the OS ignores the BIOS
and takes over, but then it's slow to the point of
sometimes being dead.

I bought it at amazon, thing is that living out
in the sticks sending anything back involves
prohibitive shipping costs, nor do I really wanna
get riod of it ALTHOUGH the next one might be
a Ps2, or I might try it with a generic Ps2 adapter?

When the mobo is booted, the CPU gets reset and also sends out a reset
to all the hardware. That is to initialize all hardware to a known good
state. When you cold boot (not warm boot) the computer, do the LEDs on
the keyboard blink to indicate it got the reset signal?

Presumably you have already tried a different USB port.

I've seen the led's flash, and yeh, I tried different usb
ports a trick which BTW works when for example
keys have no effect when a boot menu shows up (that
too is before OS takeover BTW). When that happens I
can change port or just reseat in the same port for
it to get picked up. Problem is I cannot do that fast
enough to get 'Del' in for a BIOS edit

cheap USB-only keyboard: no problem.
gamer USB-only keyboard: problem exists.

Problem resolved. The gamer keyboard is farked.

Well, it _is_ a problem during early boot, the rest
of the problem is still waiting.

bad sector wrote:

It's a Durgod Taurus k-320 (made in China), and the reason I got it
was that ...
... I was up to here with num locks being ON by default so I wanted a
keyboard with NO numpad

Your BIOS might have settings for the default state of the keyboard on
boot. My BIOS (well, UEFI) has:

Bootup Num-Lock

Select whether Num Lock should be turned on or off when the system
boots up.

You should check if there is a similar setting in your BIOS. I went to:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards...IR_IV_FORMULA/

to see if an online copy of that mobo's manual was available, so I could
see if it mentioned a NumLock setting in the BIOS. Yep, that mobo's
BIOS has a NumLock setting, so you could configure the keyboard to have
its NumLock status either on or off on boot.

As I said it's a problem ONLY in the very early stages of boot, and

*I just realise now what that means*

..it's slow ONLY before the OS ignores the BIOS
and takes over, but then it's slow to the point of
sometimes being dead.

Got me confused. It's slow before the OS loads ("before the OS ignores
the BIOS") and it's slow when the OS loads ("then it's slow"). Up to
when the POST screen shows, the BIOS is in charge. It then locates the
boot sector in the active-marked partition on the drive, loads the
bootstrap code in that boot sector into memory, and passes control to
that bootstrap code (for the OS).

So, up to when the POST screen appears (and when the BIOS is in charge),
is the keyboard slow? Or is it after the POST screen disappears (when
the BIOS loads the OS' bootstrap code and passes control to it) when the
gamer keyboard gets slow?

durgod.com does list a driver for that gamer keyboard. Did you install
it? See https://www.durgod.com/Durgod-Zeus-Engine?_l=en. The manual
and software downloads are there. Seems they use the same ones for all
their keyboards.

Since it is a USB device, there is handshaking between the OS and the
device when the device sends its presentation data to the OS which
identifies the device's type. That presentation data gets stored in the
registry under the Enumeration key. If the enumeration data gets
corrupted, the OS doesn't know what is the device type. Cleaning out
the enumeration data and forcing a new copy to get stored in the
registry is easy for some but tricky to most. I've had to do it when a
USB device's enumeration data did not match on the USB device after its
firmware got updated. The enumeration data mismatch or corruption is
why some techs' canned response is to move the USB device to a different
USB port, but that won't delete the enumeration data for the original
port should you plug the device back into the prior USB port. No point
in getting into erasing the old enumeration data and getting new
presentation data stored in the registry if the keyboard is only slow
BEFORE the OS loads (i.e., after the POST screen disappears).

I bought it at amazon, thing is that living out in the sticks sending
anything back involves prohibitive shipping costs,

I usually ask the seller if they're willing to do a warranty exchange.
I buy a new unit, and they send that to me. When I get it, I reuse the
packaging to ship back the old defective unit. When they receive it,
they refund my purchase (the 2nd one for the same unit). I've even ran
across several companies that will include a pre-paid label you stick on
the return package, so you don't even have to pay for the return
shipping. The defective unit might still be usable, so a warranty
exchange lets me keep using the defective unit, I slide in the
replacement when it arrives, and I don't lose use of the unit except the
short time to make the switch.

the next one might be a Ps2, or I might try it with a generic Ps2
adapter?

A USB-to-PS/2 adapter is of no use unless the keyboard itself support
BOTH the USB and PS/2 hardware protocols. They keyboard will
automatically switch to match the hardware protocol of the port to which
you connect the keyboard. Make sure the next one actually says it
supports *both* USB and PS/2. The hardware protocol switch requires
active logic, not just passive rewiring within an adapter.

cheap USB-only keyboard: no problem.
gamer USB-only keyboard: problem exists.

Problem resolved. The gamer keyboard is farked.

Well, it _is_ a problem during early boot, the rest of the problem is
still waiting.

If slow up to the POST, and beyond into when the OS loads, then it
sounds like the gamer keyboard is defective. You can either suffer with
it (type on a turd), return for warranty replacement (or return for
refund if within the seller's refund policy period), or use something
else that works reliably. Your choice.

A search at amazon.com on "Durgod Taurus k-320" shows that keyboard can
be bought for $100. It's up to you if you want to invest another $20
USD to ship it back for a warranty return or refund, and hope the
problem isn't intrinsic to the design of that product which has you
afflicted with the same problem with the warranty replacement. That's
why I'd first check if the seller will do a refund, and then get
something else and cheaper. I do like mechanical keyboards, and they
are more expensive than the cheap rubber dome keyboards. However, if I
were to go to the expensive of a "gamer" mechanical keyboard, I'd get
one that connects to PS/2. That criteria excludes ALL of the Durgod
keyboards.

Personally I find the filtering at Amazon sucks, and why I rarely shop
there unless I already know exactly what I want and can search on that
string. You can't use it to narrow the search to what you want. "PC
gaming keyboard" is NOT the same as getting to a keyboard category and
then filtering by mechanical key. Hell, you can't even filter by USB,
USB-only, USB+PS/2, or PS/2. Best you can do at Amazon is start from
the top and use a search of "PS2 keyboard mechanical key color
gaming", and in the search results pick the Brand filter to match on
brands that I've heard of and perhaps have used before or based on
reviews that I've read before purchasing.

bad sector wrote:

After I don't know how many reboots bios still wasn't detecting
but "fdisk -l" finally picked one of them up.

fdisk? I haven't see that available since the ancient MS/IBM-DOS days,
or in Linux. What OS are you running on this computer?

I'm not sure the OS is important since the problems you describe are
accessing the BIOS or its POST screen not listing all your devices. The
POST screen presents its findings before any OS gets loaded.

Do you even see the POST screen? Or is the BIOS configured to display
some ad banner, like "Hey, you're using ASUS"? I'd get rid of any ad
banner display during boot up, and have the BIOS show its POST screen.
The ad banner is worthless. The POST screen shows valuable information.

On 2020-10-22 19:45, VanguardLH wrote:
bad sector wrote:

After I don't know how many reboots bios still wasn't detecting
but "fdisk -l" finally picked one of them up.

fdisk? I haven't see that available since the ancient MS/IBM-DOS days,
or in Linux. What OS are you running on this computer?

I'm just starting out with ssd's and gdisk after using fdisk like
for 30 years. It's more gdisk now, especially if I partition, but
for just the odd "fsdisk -l" I still forget myself at times

OS-wise its Suse Leap, Suse Tumbleweed, morphing over to
systemd-free Artix, Devuan and Slackware while on ocasion
runing w7 in a vBox on either of the above.

I'm not sure the OS is important since the problems you describe are
accessing the BIOS or its POST screen not listing all your devices. The
POST screen presents its findings before any OS gets loaded.

Do you even see the POST screen? Or is the BIOS configured to display
some ad banner, like "Hey, you're using ASUS"? I'd get rid of any ad
banner display during boot up, and have the BIOS show its POST screen.
The ad banner is worthless. The POST screen shows valuable information.

I can config the bios no problem, usually nix all the
useless eye-candy. My problems with the bios were
that "A" hitting 'Del' with the new keyboard was a waste
of time and "B" one of my drives was probably done for.

There's one question left here before being certain,
If you have a bad drive plugged into slot 3 that don't
get recognised, will that prevent a good drive in slot 4
from being recognised. This bit is a mystery, I was
getting that impression though. Now I'll never know
cause I coincidentally killed the 'bad' drive (see other
answer to Paul).