Why Power Supply Died?

Was it a USB mouse, PS/2-style, serial, or one of the original Microsoft bus
mice with a special card? ... Ben Myers

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:01:51 -0400, "news" wrote:

what did you do with the mouse?

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
Compressed air can even change critical dip switch
settings. Never use compressed air on electronics. In on
case, a user vacuumed the computer and therefore removed a
jumper setting. Computer would not operate.

At most, gently vacuum or blow dust off of ventilation
holes. Nothing more. If a dust problem is that large, then
either an industrial grade computer for a harsh environment is
required, or some silly person installed too many fans. Five
fans inside a case does create dust problems especially since
most every computer works just fine with only one 80mm fan.

Why did power supply die? Air that is exhausted from
computer must not be air that reenters computer. Ventilation
is why holes must be properly cut in a cabinet that holds a
computer - so that heat does not recycle. Computers must work
just fine when room air is 100 degree F. A computer in a 70
degree room just will never have failures due to dust - if
computer is properly designed and ventilated.

Do not use compressed air on electronics. First it is not
necessary. Second it can cause other failures. Too many have
this 'clean' fetish. They always want to cure something only
because it looks dirty. Short of large globs of dust on
ventilation holes or large dust balls inside the case -
removing dust is unnecessary.

I only remove dust because I don't like getting my hands
dirty if I happen to be inside the machine. Once even found
a death mouse. But computer worked just fine.

"A. & C. Bredt" wrote:
I have it on a UPS, but I see that it is very dusty inside.

How often would you use compressed air to clean it? Should I open
it each time to do it?

Do you clean a mouse with anything other than a finger
nail? Why? There is nothing in a mouse that needs compressed
air or even a vacuum to clean out. Nothing. Just scrap away
the hardened dirt where mouse ball hits roller. Or buy an
optical mouse and clean nothing.

Bottom line from one who worked where reliability had to be
100%. Never use compressed air to clean any electronics.
This has been that well known for so many decades. Any
properly trained repairman knows - never use compressed air.
Unfortunately, too many computer 'experts' today never have
such education or real world experience. Instead they have
learned like too many auto mechanics have learned. Hearsay.

Do the numbers - something little understood by computer
people. Blowing out the dust makes an improvement so trivial
as to be irrelevant. How many degrees cooler is that
computer? If not at least 10 degrees C, then it really does
not matter. Margin of error in the design makes all that
cleaning irrelevant.

Then we get to why people clean. Less heat means longer
life. Yes. And when we apply numbers, that increased life
expectancy is near zero. In fact the compressed air is more
likely to reduce life expectancy than the dust. As long as
the ventilation holes are clear, then the computer has more
than sufficient cooling. No dust nor a cabinet should block
those cooling holes. Clean dust only when it is convenient -
and never use compressed air. Better to leave a coating (not
to be confused with globs) of dust inside. Dust coating does
not adversely effect anything - except those with a cleaning
fetish.

news wrote:
what did you do with the mouse?

Keep up.

"w_tom" wrote in message ...
Do you clean a mouse with anything other than a finger
nail? Why? There is nothing in a mouse that needs compressed
air or even a vacuum to clean out. Nothing. Just scrap away
the hardened dirt where mouse ball hits roller. Or buy an
optical mouse and clean nothing.

Bottom line from one who worked where reliability had to be
100%. Never use compressed air to clean any electronics.
This has been that well known for so many decades. Any
properly trained repairman knows - never use compressed air.
Unfortunately, too many computer 'experts' today never have
such education or real world experience. Instead they have
learned like too many auto mechanics have learned. Hearsay.

Do the numbers - something little understood by computer
people. Blowing out the dust makes an improvement so trivial
as to be irrelevant. How many degrees cooler is that
computer? If not at least 10 degrees C, then it really does
not matter. Margin of error in the design makes all that
cleaning irrelevant.

Then we get to why people clean. Less heat means longer
life. Yes. And when we apply numbers, that increased life
expectancy is near zero. In fact the compressed air is more
likely to reduce life expectancy than the dust. As long as
the ventilation holes are clear, then the computer has more
than sufficient cooling. No dust nor a cabinet should block
those cooling holes. Clean dust only when it is convenient -
and never use compressed air. Better to leave a coating (not
to be confused with globs) of dust inside. Dust coating does
not adversely effect anything - except those with a cleaning
fetish.

news wrote:
what did you do with the mouse?

Let me know when the dust and dirt in your computer builds up enough to cause a
critical fan to stop spinning, with one or more components burning up as a
result... Ben Myers

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:50:38 -0400, w_tom wrote:

Do you clean a mouse with anything other than a finger
nail? Why? There is nothing in a mouse that needs compressed
air or even a vacuum to clean out. Nothing. Just scrap away
the hardened dirt where mouse ball hits roller. Or buy an
optical mouse and clean nothing.

Bottom line from one who worked where reliability had to be
100%. Never use compressed air to clean any electronics.
This has been that well known for so many decades. Any
properly trained repairman knows - never use compressed air.
Unfortunately, too many computer 'experts' today never have
such education or real world experience. Instead they have
learned like too many auto mechanics have learned. Hearsay.

Do the numbers - something little understood by computer
people. Blowing out the dust makes an improvement so trivial
as to be irrelevant. How many degrees cooler is that
computer? If not at least 10 degrees C, then it really does
not matter. Margin of error in the design makes all that
cleaning irrelevant.

Then we get to why people clean. Less heat means longer
life. Yes. And when we apply numbers, that increased life
expectancy is near zero. In fact the compressed air is more
likely to reduce life expectancy than the dust. As long as
the ventilation holes are clear, then the computer has more
than sufficient cooling. No dust nor a cabinet should block
those cooling holes. Clean dust only when it is convenient -
and never use compressed air. Better to leave a coating (not
to be confused with globs) of dust inside. Dust coating does
not adversely effect anything - except those with a cleaning
fetish.

news wrote:
what did you do with the mouse?

I have seen components compromised by small amounts dust particles.
Some dust particles are conductive to some extent and as you know it
does not always take much to damage electronics.
Periodically blowing out a computer is potentially a very good thing
and recommended.

As long as you focus on just the dust-heat issue, you miss many other
possibilities.
More advanced technology requires we think outside of very narrow
terms as a problem such as dust has the potential to cause other
issues than just overheating.

So while you suggest not blowing out because there is negligible
temperature improvement, I suggest blowing out the dust to improve air
circulation as well as remove potentially damaging contaminants.

--
Jupiter Jones
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"w_tom" wrote in message
...
Compressed air can even change critical dip switch
settings. Never use compressed air on electronics. In on
case, a user vacuumed the computer and therefore removed a
jumper setting. Computer would not operate.

At most, gently vacuum or blow dust off of ventilation
holes. Nothing more. If a dust problem is that large, then
either an industrial grade computer for a harsh environment is
required, or some silly person installed too many fans. Five
fans inside a case does create dust problems especially since
most every computer works just fine with only one 80mm fan.

Why did power supply die? Air that is exhausted from
computer must not be air that reenters computer. Ventilation
is why holes must be properly cut in a cabinet that holds a
computer - so that heat does not recycle. Computers must work
just fine when room air is 100 degree F. A computer in a 70
degree room just will never have failures due to dust - if
computer is properly designed and ventilated.

Do not use compressed air on electronics. First it is not
necessary. Second it can cause other failures. Too many have
this 'clean' fetish. They always want to cure something only
because it looks dirty. Short of large globs of dust on
ventilation holes or large dust balls inside the case -
removing dust is unnecessary.

I only remove dust because I don't like getting my hands
dirty if I happen to be inside the machine. Once even found
a death mouse. But computer worked just fine.

If you remove all the jumpers (hint:they are about a dollar for 100,
buy a bag full...)and loose items you may vacuum away. Provided you do
not have an ESD issue. Static discharges are the main cause of
component failures on motherboards. Only vacuum with the humidity over
40%, and the vacuum cleaner, the computer chassis,the technician, and
the hose and nozzle must all be grounded. The computer should be
hooked to ground through its power cord (or use a jumper) and the
hose/nozzle must be a conductive ESD type. They are conductors, but
not good ones: they have a designed high resistance that lets static
charges bleed off rather than arc.

A "toner vac" is ideal, but expensive. The Kirby will work, use the
ESD wand and brush from the toner vac-available separately. Ground the
Kirby case with a jumper. A conductive brush-again, not metal, but
designated ESD safe-wielded by a tech who is properly grounded-through
a 10-megohm resistor, as are used in commercial ESD leashes-is
probably better.

If the humidity is low, _lightly_ splash water around on the carpet
first. Wipe the case with a slightly damp rag. No puddles, a little
damp. Let thoroughly dry before plugging in. You can spray the carpet
with a little diluted Downy, but don't get it on the machine anywhere.
Only Downy has the high dollar anti-static ingredient in $100/gallon
ESD spray used in all ISO-9000 electronics plants (as far as I know).
Sta-Puf and Suavitel don't.

You already have the list of every time dust has caused
failures - including computers before PC existed. Dust
problems are myths often associated with a tech who is
'reaching' to solve a problem he never understood.

Fans don't fail due to dust. They fail due to internal
failures such as seized bearing, misplaced rotation sensor, or
failed transistor. Been doing this for too many decades to
fall for the 'too much dust' myth. No reason to use
compressed air on electronics. Dust may create a marginal
problem if ventilation holes are obstructed and computer
operates in a 100 degree F room. Even a soft paint brush
solves that problem.

Ben Myers wrote:
Let me know when the dust and dirt in your computer builds up
enough to cause a critical fan to stop spinning, with one or
more components burning up as a result... Ben Myers

Well, you do it your way, I'll do it mine. Never the twain shall meet. Live
and let live. And I won't take your remarks personally... Ben Myers

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:13:26 -0400, w_tom wrote:

You already have the list of every time dust has caused
failures - including computers before PC existed. Dust
problems are myths often associated with a tech who is
'reaching' to solve a problem he never understood.

Fans don't fail due to dust. They fail due to internal
failures such as seized bearing, misplaced rotation sensor, or
failed transistor. Been doing this for too many decades to
fall for the 'too much dust' myth. No reason to use
compressed air on electronics. Dust may create a marginal
problem if ventilation holes are obstructed and computer
operates in a 100 degree F room. Even a soft paint brush
solves that problem.

Ben Myers wrote:
Let me know when the dust and dirt in your computer builds up
enough to cause a critical fan to stop spinning, with one or
more components burning up as a result... Ben Myers

Jim;
If you are pulling jumpers off with a vacuum, you already have at
least one of the below issues:
1. Too powerful a vacuum for the job.
2. Jumpers way to loose...will eventually be a problem otherwise.

The point of my post is cooling issues caused by dust is only one
issue.
If the focus is that narrow, other issues may result because of
ignorance.

I was not addressing ESD because that is beyond the scope of this
thread.

--
Jupiter Jones
Check the following link for some great problem solving newsgroups.
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Jim-Ed Browne" wrote in message
om...
If you remove all the jumpers (hint:they are about a dollar for 100,
buy a bag full...)and loose items you may vacuum away. Provided you
do
not have an ESD issue. Static discharges are the main cause of
component failures on motherboards. Only vacuum with the humidity
over
40%, and the vacuum cleaner, the computer chassis,the technician,
and
the hose and nozzle must all be grounded. The computer should be
hooked to ground through its power cord (or use a jumper) and the
hose/nozzle must be a conductive ESD type. They are conductors, but
not good ones: they have a designed high resistance that lets static
charges bleed off rather than arc.

A "toner vac" is ideal, but expensive. The Kirby will work, use the
ESD wand and brush from the toner vac-available separately. Ground
the
Kirby case with a jumper. A conductive brush-again, not metal, but
designated ESD safe-wielded by a tech who is properly
grounded-through
a 10-megohm resistor, as are used in commercial ESD leashes-is
probably better.

If the humidity is low, _lightly_ splash water around on the carpet
first. Wipe the case with a slightly damp rag. No puddles, a little
damp. Let thoroughly dry before plugging in. You can spray the
carpet
with a little diluted Downy, but don't get it on the machine
anywhere.
Only Downy has the high dollar anti-static ingredient in $100/gallon
ESD spray used in all ISO-9000 electronics plants (as far as I
know).
Sta-Puf and Suavitel don't.

Do you think he was talking about the industrial-type compressed air that
contains oil/water? I can see how that might be bad for electronics. The
junk in the can you buy at Staples is probably OK.
ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Hmm. Never ever had a problem with a computer getting into difficulty as
a
result of my blasting it out with compressed air. Must be either dumb
luck or
highly refined technique. Several dealers and resellers in my
neighborhood with
whom I have a loose arrangement to exchange parts and repair/maintenance
have
never had a problem either.

Admittedly a computer CAN survive with a lot of dust, dirt, dead mice, and
animal hair inside it. But the chances of survival are generally better
if the
interior is somewhat clean, allowing clear and unimpeded air flow.

I've also serviced a proprietary computer (a custom printer RIP) never
ever
cleaned by the so-called maintenance person. Opened up the chassis and
found a
ball about the side of a baseball consisting of cat hair, paper chaff,
dust,
dirt, and heaven knows what else. And that computer had a failed power
supply.
Luckily for my client, a common personal computer power supply fit right
in, so
there was no need for a service call from the other guy using parts paid
via
extortion.

Factory environments are especially hard on personal computers, and some
regular
cleaning out of the dirt prolongs the life of the machine.

That's my opinion, and you are just as free to have yours... Ben Myers

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:03:21 -0400, w_tom wrote:

Compressed air can even change critical dip switch
settings. Never use compressed air on electronics. In on
case, a user vacuumed the computer and therefore removed a
jumper setting. Computer would not operate.

At most, gently vacuum or blow dust off of ventilation
holes. Nothing more. If a dust problem is that large, then
either an industrial grade computer for a harsh environment is
required, or some silly person installed too many fans. Five
fans inside a case does create dust problems especially since
most every computer works just fine with only one 80mm fan.

Why did power supply die? Air that is exhausted from
computer must not be air that reenters computer. Ventilation
is why holes must be properly cut in a cabinet that holds a
computer - so that heat does not recycle. Computers must work
just fine when room air is 100 degree F. A computer in a 70
degree room just will never have failures due to dust - if
computer is properly designed and ventilated.

Do not use compressed air on electronics. First it is not
necessary. Second it can cause other failures. Too many have
this 'clean' fetish. They always want to cure something only
because it looks dirty. Short of large globs of dust on
ventilation holes or large dust balls inside the case -
removing dust is unnecessary.

I only remove dust because I don't like getting my hands
dirty if I happen to be inside the machine. Once even found
a death mouse. But computer worked just fine.

"A. & C. Bredt" wrote:
I have it on a UPS, but I see that it is very dusty inside.

How often would you use compressed air to clean it? Should I open
it each time to do it?