Micro ATX PSU- What manufacturer?

Al Drake wrote:
I'm looking for a replacement for a Micro- ATX PSU mounted in a
Surveillance DVR and would like some recommendations on who makes a good
one. The one I'm trying to replace is obviously a cheap one as it
crapped out after a short time. Made in China with RSY 625M V1.3 on
label but I come up empty in my searches. I've tried Amazon but only see
those that are 450W max. I'm assuming the 625M means wattage but I might
be wrong. I have 6 HDDs installed so I want to make sure I have one
that's got the power I need.

I don't suppose anyone here has experience with DVRs and can help. I
have posted to CCTVforum seveal times but I can't get any help with what
I need to know.

Thanks for any tips.

Al

Post a picture of the label on tinypic.com . There is a limit
to the size of the picture, and if you upload a high resolution
image, the site is likely to downsample it (to say 1024x768).
I like to control the downsampling myself, so I get a legible
image on one try. This wasn't a problem with Imageshack in the past,
but they're entirely out of the PC space now. They also zorched
all the old pictures (gee, thanks).

There are volumetric limits to power conversion. It takes
"X" cubic inches of space to regulate 625 watts. It takes
a smaller space to do 450W. At some point, you run out of
room with respect to dimensions, to build truly monstrous
supplies.

On some of the 1200W class ATX ones, you can see the chassis of
the supply is longer than normal. Two dimensions are fixed,
and manufacturers just play with the other as they see fit.
Worst case, if the computer case is small enough, the supply
and cable harness, could bump into the back of the DVD drive.

The microATX doesn't have nearly the freedom to fool around.

On ATX supplies, the label includes volts and amps. There should
be some level of detail on there, as to what the thing
actually is.

I tried a search here, and got purely random results. So
the search engine isn't helping, even when primed with
"power supply" as a search term. I might as well have
been shopping for Golf Shoes, as far as the search engine
was concerned. It couldn't even limit the search to things
with "power supply" in the name.

Paul

I'm looking for a replacement for a Micro- ATX PSU mounted in a
Surveillance DVR and would like some recommendations on who makes a good
one. The one I'm trying to replace is obviously a cheap one as it
crapped out after a short time. Made in China with RSY 625M V1.3 on
label but I come up empty in my searches. I've tried Amazon but only see
those that are 450W max. I'm assuming the 625M means wattage but I might
be wrong. I have 6 HDDs installed so I want to make sure I have one
that's got the power I need.

I don't suppose anyone here has experience with DVRs and can help. I
have posted to CCTVforum seveal times but I can't get any help with what
I need to know.

Thanks for any tips.

Al

On 12/14/2014 8:31 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
I'm looking for a replacement for a Micro- ATX PSU mounted in a
Surveillance DVR and would like some recommendations on who makes a
good one. The one I'm trying to replace is obviously a cheap one as it
crapped out after a short time. Made in China with RSY 625M V1.3 on
label but I come up empty in my searches. I've tried Amazon but only
see those that are 450W max. I'm assuming the 625M means wattage but I
might be wrong. I have 6 HDDs installed so I want to make sure I have
one that's got the power I need.

I don't suppose anyone here has experience with DVRs and can help. I
have posted to CCTVforum seveal times but I can't get any help with
what I need to know.

Thanks for any tips.

Al

Post a picture of the label on tinypic.com . There is a limit
to the size of the picture, and if you upload a high resolution
image, the site is likely to downsample it (to say 1024x768).
I like to control the downsampling myself, so I get a legible
image on one try. This wasn't a problem with Imageshack in the past,
but they're entirely out of the PC space now. They also zorched
all the old pictures (gee, thanks).

There are volumetric limits to power conversion. It takes
"X" cubic inches of space to regulate 625 watts. It takes
a smaller space to do 450W. At some point, you run out of
room with respect to dimensions, to build truly monstrous
supplies.

On some of the 1200W class ATX ones, you can see the chassis of
the supply is longer than normal. Two dimensions are fixed,
and manufacturers just play with the other as they see fit.
Worst case, if the computer case is small enough, the supply
and cable harness, could bump into the back of the DVD drive.

The microATX doesn't have nearly the freedom to fool around.

On ATX supplies, the label includes volts and amps. There should
be some level of detail on there, as to what the thing
actually is.

I tried a search here, and got purely random results. So
the search engine isn't helping, even when primed with
"power supply" as a search term. I might as well have
been shopping for Golf Shoes, as far as the search engine
was concerned. It couldn't even limit the search to things
with "power supply" in the name.

Paul
Ok, Paul and thanks. I'll find a camera that I can use and maybe take a
shot of inside the case as well.

Be back as soon as I can.

Al.

I tried a search here, and got purely random results. So
the search engine isn't helping, even when primed with
"power supply" as a search term. I might as well have
been shopping for Golf Shoes, as far as the search engine
was concerned. It couldn't even limit the search to things
with "power supply" in the name.

Paul

Ok, That didn't take that long. I found a magnifying glass and was
able to see that is says 250W after something in Chinese and more
Chinese and 125W so I guess I don't need something that big after all.
I am wondering, however, about my use of my PSU tester. The display
shows flashing LL where it checks the +12v. When I connect a 12 volt
molex nothing changes. The DVD drive opens and closes so I know that is
getting power. The cable to the motherboard is a 20 pinout where the
PSUs I saw were 24. I am supposing I can still use it but will only be
using one part of the connector? I hope I'm not over looking something
in hooking up the tester. I get the display but it doesn't go farther
than the "waiting" screen.

Al Drake wrote:

I tried a search here, and got purely random results. So
the search engine isn't helping, even when primed with
"power supply" as a search term. I might as well have
been shopping for Golf Shoes, as far as the search engine
was concerned. It couldn't even limit the search to things
with "power supply" in the name.

Paul

Ok, That didn't take that long. I found a magnifying glass and was able
to see that is says 250W after something in Chinese and more Chinese and
125W so I guess I don't need something that big after all. I am
wondering, however, about my use of my PSU tester. The display shows
flashing LL where it checks the +12v. When I connect a 12 volt molex
nothing changes. The DVD drive opens and closes so I know that is
getting power. The cable to the motherboard is a 20 pinout where the
PSUs I saw were 24. I am supposing I can still use it but will only be
using one part of the connector? I hope I'm not over looking something
in hooking up the tester. I get the display but it doesn't go farther
than the "waiting" screen.

Using a 24 pin ATX power, on a 20 pin motherboard, is OK.
The extra four pins are redundant. For example, the 20 pin has
one 12V wire, rated at 6A. When a 24 pin connector is used, one
of the extra pins is yellow and is 12V as well. Which gives you
closer to 12A of capacity for current flow. Since the motherboard
only has the 20 pins, that means it's happy without that.

Some supplies, the connector is a 20+4 style. There is a
hinge, and the two pieces come apart. That allows plugging in
the 20 pin section, and leaving the other bit dangling. The dangling
bit doesn't hurt anything.

You can also plug the 24 pin (solid connector type) to the 20 pin,
but that's only possible if no components are to the side of the
connector area. Sometimes an electrolytic cap is in an inconvenient
location, and prevents direct plugin like that. Example here,
showing the pins hanging over. Pin 1 aligns with Pin 1. Latches
on the same side. Leaving four pins hanging over on the far end.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/24in20.jpg

More info on this site.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

*******

With regard to your PSU tester, it sounds like you're doing the right
things. Some PSU testers only load one rail (like maybe 5V), leaving
the other rails unloaded. Connecting the DVD drive, only loads the
12V if media is spinning, or maybe if the drawer opens. Whereas, an
old IDE hard drive with the ribbon cable unconnected, you can connect
that to your Molex, and get a 12V @ 0.6A kind of load. Better than
nothing. The hard drive draws up to 12V @ 3A during spinup, but
levels off at a lower current level. The 3.5" hard drives are the ones
that use 12V for the motor. Make sure the supply can tolerate a
3A load on 12V.

It could be the 12V is out of spec. Note that the "feedback" system
in cheap PSUs is crazy, in that one feedback is used for everything.
If 5V is heavily loaded, the supply "puts more umpf into it",
and the 5V rises back to nominal, while the 12V overshoots a bit
(rises to 12.6V). This is referred to as "cross loading". Only
a few supplies, used separate circuits for each rail, feedback
per rail, and do tight tracking (no overshoot). The voltages
are related by transformer turns ratio, which is why the outputs
track when the outputs are turned up.

If I had to guess, your 12V output is probably a bit weak, and
the feedback went to the wall and it didn't help. If I was
sitting there, I'd have out my clamp-on DC ammeter (Hall probe
type), to measure the actual current, and check for an overload
caused by a motherboard defect. It's not always the
power supply fault, but your "LL" suggests all is not
right there. With the motherboard disconnected, it hasn't
returned to normal.

Now that you've seen the label on the supply, maybe
you can order a new one. Usually the label has a
complete breakdown of 3.3V @ X amps, 5V @ Y amps,
12V @ Z amps. And you can find something that meets or
exceeds each rail.

Paul

On 12/14/2014 3:17 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

I tried a search here, and got purely random results. So
the search engine isn't helping, even when primed with
"power supply" as a search term. I might as well have
been shopping for Golf Shoes, as far as the search engine
was concerned. It couldn't even limit the search to things
with "power supply" in the name.

Paul

Ok, That didn't take that long. I found a magnifying glass and was
able to see that is says 250W after something in Chinese and more
Chinese and 125W so I guess I don't need something that big after all.
I am wondering, however, about my use of my PSU tester. The display
shows flashing LL where it checks the +12v. When I connect a 12 volt
molex nothing changes. The DVD drive opens and closes so I know that
is getting power. The cable to the motherboard is a 20 pinout where
the PSUs I saw were 24. I am supposing I can still use it but will
only be using one part of the connector? I hope I'm not over looking
something in hooking up the tester. I get the display but it doesn't
go farther than the "waiting" screen.

Using a 24 pin ATX power, on a 20 pin motherboard, is OK.
The extra four pins are redundant. For example, the 20 pin has
one 12V wire, rated at 6A. When a 24 pin connector is used, one
of the extra pins is yellow and is 12V as well. Which gives you
closer to 12A of capacity for current flow. Since the motherboard
only has the 20 pins, that means it's happy without that.

Some supplies, the connector is a 20+4 style. There is a
hinge, and the two pieces come apart. That allows plugging in
the 20 pin section, and leaving the other bit dangling. The dangling
bit doesn't hurt anything.

You can also plug the 24 pin (solid connector type) to the 20 pin,
but that's only possible if no components are to the side of the
connector area. Sometimes an electrolytic cap is in an inconvenient
location, and prevents direct plugin like that. Example here,
showing the pins hanging over. Pin 1 aligns with Pin 1. Latches
on the same side. Leaving four pins hanging over on the far end.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/24in20.jpg

More info on this site.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

*******

With regard to your PSU tester, it sounds like you're doing the right
things. Some PSU testers only load one rail (like maybe 5V), leaving
the other rails unloaded. Connecting the DVD drive, only loads the
12V if media is spinning, or maybe if the drawer opens. Whereas, an
old IDE hard drive with the ribbon cable unconnected, you can connect
that to your Molex, and get a 12V @ 0.6A kind of load. Better than
nothing. The hard drive draws up to 12V @ 3A during spinup, but
levels off at a lower current level. The 3.5" hard drives are the ones
that use 12V for the motor. Make sure the supply can tolerate a
3A load on 12V.

It could be the 12V is out of spec. Note that the "feedback" system
in cheap PSUs is crazy, in that one feedback is used for everything.
If 5V is heavily loaded, the supply "puts more umpf into it",
and the 5V rises back to nominal, while the 12V overshoots a bit
(rises to 12.6V). This is referred to as "cross loading". Only
a few supplies, used separate circuits for each rail, feedback
per rail, and do tight tracking (no overshoot). The voltages
are related by transformer turns ratio, which is why the outputs
track when the outputs are turned up.

If I had to guess, your 12V output is probably a bit weak, and
the feedback went to the wall and it didn't help. If I was
sitting there, I'd have out my clamp-on DC ammeter (Hall probe
type), to measure the actual current, and check for an overload
caused by a motherboard defect. It's not always the
power supply fault, but your "LL" suggests all is not
right there. With the motherboard disconnected, it hasn't
returned to normal.

Now that you've seen the label on the supply, maybe
you can order a new one. Usually the label has a
complete breakdown of 3.3V @ X amps, 5V @ Y amps,
12V @ Z amps. And you can find something that meets or
exceeds each rail.

Paul

Thanks again Paul. I'll order one tonight. I saw plenty for cheap. I
will however, use a volt meter like you suggest just to make sure.

Regards,

Al.