Gateway's Warranty Program Sucks!

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:48:03 -0600, "Tom Clydesdale"
wrote:

And your local builder is going to use parts made where?

[quote]
"There is no way that anyone can justify these company practices to
me. There is no amount of spinning, misquoting or bending the truth
that can make it "OK" with me".
[End Quote]

Sorry....

The country of origin of the parts is not the issue here. Computer chips,
boards, and other parts represent the United Nations, and have for many years
now. Outsourcing of various levels of manufacturing has been going on for many
years in the computer biz.

The issue as stated by Ed is very simply the all the hype, gamesmanship, pure
bull****, misrepresentation, posturing and outright lying by companies like
Gateway pretending to be 100% red-white-and-blue American companies.

Outsourcing is here to stay and we all have to get used to it, and make the
necessary adjustments in our business and personal lives.

99% of the people buying computers are so enamored with getting the best deal
and the lowest price, that it has become impossible to for most white box
builders like myself to compete with Dell (especially!), Gateway-eMachines,
HPaq, and the schlock-makers found in WalMart(!), Best Buy, Circuit City,
Staples, etc. At this point, I keep a lot of parts on hand, repair a lot of
the junk sold by others, upgrade the rest of the junk (under-configured on
memory nearly every time), remove viruses, worms, and ad-ware, and re-sell
refurbished units of the better brand names (Dell, IBM, OLDER (only) Gateway).

I'm not bitching. This is all reality, and the niche I have built as a
comprehensive local service provider keeps enough money coming in. And 100% of
the parts I use are made somewhere out there on the Pacific Rim... Ben Myers

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:48:03 -0600, "Tom Clydesdale"
wrote:

And your local builder is going to use parts made where?

Well, what's strange is that they selectively honor warranties.

In ,
Ed stated
| On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 03:02:17 GMT, "Joan F \(MI\)"
| wrote:
|
|| That's strange, they honored mine,
|
| That's strange, I said "some messages on here" which to people that do
| not selectively read into what was actually said, means that it didn't
| happen to everyone. Big DUH there.....
|
| I love selective readers, they are so easy, especially when the
| original message is still available to read what was actually said.
| And another big DUH....
|
| Ed

I like that. "Selective" reading. And that's exactly what it is
most of the time with a lot of people that either don't have the
literary skills to decipher the point being expressed when there are
multiple sentences and paragraphs being utilized to formulate a point
of view --- or --- they can but don't want to because it hurts.

What you need to do Ed is get a copy of Grammatik. What it does is take
what you have written and rewrites it at a grade level of your choice.
What you would do for News Group submittals would be to write your view
and then tell Grammatik to rewrite it on a 3rd grade level. That will
take care of most of those that don't have much, if any literary
skills. Then you still have to deal with those that misquote and
"selective" read on purpose because the actual point of the
"ENTIRE" context of the message hurts. With those, you just have
to ignore. You know the types, the ones that misquote what you say and
in the same message they have cut and paste what you actually said.
What's that old saying? If brains were made of dynamite....

"Selective" Reading. I'm going to start using that term. I like
that!

Thanx,
NIK

***** Email Address is Fake *****




Ed wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 03:02:17 GMT, "Joan F \(MI\)"
wrote:

That's strange, they honored mine,

That's strange, I said "some messages on here" which to people that do
not selectively read into what was actually said, means that it didn't
happen to everyone. Big DUH there.....

I love selective readers, they are so easy, especially when the
original message is still available to read what was actually said.
And another big DUH....

Ed

But as you see, they still try. Supporters of job outsourcing and
deceptive marketing practices always try to justify it by twisting it
into some demented reasoning that if the parts were made in Tiawane
then supporting companies like Gateway, Hp, Compaque, and all the
others is justified over supporting your local builders. Like you,
they got to get up real early in the morning to pull that type of spin
over on me. But like a little puppy, they just keep coming back. You
really have to feel sad for them though.

Its like those that think M$ and Bill Gates are what you see when
looking up God in the dictionary. I have seen responses from M$ Clones
concerning this latest revelation of M$ debauchery about the Claria
scandal. The mindless programmed M$ clones say to those that have
issue with the scandal that they can always use another OS. You see
how they think? If you don't like Lies, Deception, Scandal and
Corruption, then go away instead of doing something about the Lies,
Deception, Scandal and Corruption. Same with these supporters of these
companies you are talking about that use false marketing schemes. If
you would rather do business with someone in your own community that
assembles and supports computers instead of people like Gateway, Hp,
Compaque, and all the others who use deceptive marketing schemes to try
and make people thing that they are, as you pointed out, American
Companies, selling an American Made product, made by Americans and
supported by Americans, then you must be ignorant to where the parts
are made. Now what in the hell does that have to do with deceptive
marketing practices and choosing to support a local business that
assembles and supports the machine from your own community. They are
trying to be just as deceptive about the truth as those deceptive
companies they are trying to support such actions from.

As with you, they have no case with me.

NIK

***** Email Address is Fake *****



Ed wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:48:03 -0600, "Tom Clydesdale"
wrote:

And your local builder is going to use parts made where?

[quote]
"There is no way that anyone can justify these company practices to
me. There is no amount of spinning, misquoting or bending the truth
that can make it "OK" with me".
[End Quote]

Sorry....

Where I live, there is enough of the population that ***has a clue***
that are keeping our local builders in business and flourishing. Yes,
the boxes cost more but there are enough people that also realize that
that increased costs relates into Quality Hand Assembled by someone
living and doing business in our community and supported by the same
individual that actually built the system. We have a bunch of builders
in the area but three of them have been here a long time and have
reputations the proceed them. Those three stay pretty busy. I find
that most of the young crowd that are "Computer Savvy" use the
local builders while your older crowd that don't have much of a clue
and believe the false advertisements marketed by Gateway and other of
such ilk usually go for the $299 - $399 Asian boxes full of **** with
American Company names on the boxes.

I have an Aunt that finally decided to buy a computer. She's in her
mid 50's and doesn't know one thing about computers except for what
Gateway, Dell and the others tell her on their lying ads on TV. I
tried my best to get her to buy a bare minimum (but workable) system
from a local builder but a well marketed ad scheme of Gateway's on TV
caught her eye for a $399 system. Well, she got screwed... Surprise,
Surprise, Surprise!!!! System showed up with a dead monitor.
Gateway's Asian supplier was back ordered and it took two months to
get the monitor replaced of which it was replaced with a refurbished
unit (read their warranty info, real small print). While waiting for
the monitor, I loaned her an older SVGA CRT monitor (one of those 100
pound slugs) to use. Well, the computer wouldn't boot up, kept
getting errors reading boot system files or some such thing. Turned
out the HD was bad and needed replacing.

Anyway, there is more but I get real heated every time I think about
this so suffice it to say, she got screwed. Forgot to mention the $75
shipping fee for the original shipment they forget to mention when
charging her credit card plus the $35 shipping fee she had to pay on
the monitor exchange.

So..... When she finally got this piece of **** running, she discovered
that 64meg of memory was not enough to run XP. She had to shell out
money for more memory and so on and so on. Needless to say, they whole
experience left a bad taste in her mouth for Gateway specifically and
computers in general. If she had shelled out an extra $200 or actually
less than $100 when adding in all the GW shipping charges, she could
have had a bare bones but quality workable system from a local builder
plus local support.

Now she finally has a clue but the damage is done thanks to companies
like Gateway. I don't know if she will ever buy another system after
this but I guarantee you that if she does, she will go with a local
builder.

BTW, the builder I use has a profitable network
installation/maintenance business besides building systems so he's
doing pretty good. He works 60 hours a week though! You'll do fine
Ed because each day, Gateway and others help people wise up and get a
clue... meaning their next computer will be a local build supported
locally by the same person that built the system.

NIK

***** Email Address is Fake *****



Ben Myers wrote:
The country of origin of the parts is not the issue here. Computer chips,
boards, and other parts represent the United Nations, and have for many years
now. Outsourcing of various levels of manufacturing has been going on for many
years in the computer biz.

The issue as stated by Ed is very simply the all the hype, gamesmanship, pure
bull****, misrepresentation, posturing and outright lying by companies like
Gateway pretending to be 100% red-white-and-blue American companies.

Outsourcing is here to stay and we all have to get used to it, and make the
necessary adjustments in our business and personal lives.

99% of the people buying computers are so enamored with getting the best deal
and the lowest price, that it has become impossible to for most white box
builders like myself to compete with Dell (especially!), Gateway-eMachines,
HPaq, and the schlock-makers found in WalMart(!), Best Buy, Circuit City,
Staples, etc. At this point, I keep a lot of parts on hand, repair a lot of
the junk sold by others, upgrade the rest of the junk (under-configured on
memory nearly every time), remove viruses, worms, and ad-ware, and re-sell
refurbished units of the better brand names (Dell, IBM, OLDER (only) Gateway).

I'm not bitching. This is all reality, and the niche I have built as a
comprehensive local service provider keeps enough money coming in. And 100% of
the parts I use are made somewhere out there on the Pacific Rim... Ben Myers

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:48:03 -0600, "Tom Clydesdale"
wrote:

And your local builder is going to use parts made where?

On 9 Jul 2005 12:26:55 -0700, wrote:

"Selective" Reading. I'm going to start using that term. I like
that!

I have that patented so it will cost you a buck each time you use it.

Ed

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 18:08:52 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

99% of the people buying computers are so enamored with getting the best deal
and the lowest price, that it has become impossible to for most white box
builders like myself to compete

That is a sad state of affairs isn't it? The guy I am letting build
my systems now is owner, not just manager, but owner of a Radio Shack.
Before setting up the Radio Shack, he ran a computer store and built
white boxes but not enough to keep all the bills paid. So, he opened
this Radio Shack. But, in the back of the radio Shack, he still
builds computers and has a growing clientele. I guess the good thing
is, that the Radio Shack store draws people in for other things and
while there, they see his white boxes on display and one thing usually
leads to another. I think his bargain basement system runs around
$499 but like Nik says, you get local support with that from the guy
that built the system to start with. My last system from him ran
right under $850, less monitor, and is a bitchen' machine maxed out in
performance and crazy with case mods to boot. He gives the same
warranty the corporations tell you that you are getting except that he
honors all of them. And unlike what Nik was telling about GW and
others sending out refurbished parts as warranty replacements, this
guy replaces with brand new parts. He will also come out to your
house if need be.

I got my own little story I read about refurbished warranty
replacements from GW. This person's monitor died that came with his
brand new two week old GW system. After trying 4-5 times to get
someone that spoke English at support, it was determined that he get a
replacement. When the replacement came, it was scratched up and
tarnished brown all over from cigarette tar and wreaked of cigarette
smoke. Being a non-smoker, he couldn't handle this as it also stank
up the whole house, especially when it warmed up. They called GW
support and got no where. They called GW customer service and was
told sorry, but the warranty says that any replacements can be
refurbished parts and as long as they "Work Properly", they are
considered as meeting the requirements of the warranty. This was a
Two Week Old New System!

And 100% of
the parts I use are made somewhere out there on the Pacific Rim... Ben Myers

It's not so much as where the parts were made as it is the loving care
and attention to detail with which they are assembled to make a
quality system. Throw in quality local support, honesty and integrity
with that and you have a happy and ever returning customer base even
though the cost is a little bit more.

There are those that require customized quality builds backed by local
support. The rest by cheap Asian boxes with American company names on
them supported by Ra'ull in India.

I do remember back when GW built quality systems right here in the
states along with English speaking support from North America. I had
two of them back in the early to mid 90s. You said (in so many
words) that outsourcing is the wave of the future and so be it, we
have to accept it. I on the other hand, do not accept it. That is
why I purchase white boxes from a local builder, supported by a local
builder. I am not saying that I have that choice in each and every
product that I buy, but the ones where I have a choice, I buy locally
or as close to American Made as possible. These rat faced immoral
companies might sell out America but that doesn't mean I have to when
I have a choice. Now I didn't have a choice when it came to my
notebook as none of us do when it comes to notebooks. At least I
don't know anyone manufacturing notebooks stateside. But desktops for
me will forever be local builds backed by local support.

Good luck with your white box business Ben.

Ed

It's not that outsourcing is the wave of the future! For just about any
board-level component, chip-level component, or computer chassis built since the
mid-90's, outsourcing is the past, present and future. Since the mid-90's,
only a small percentage of electronics parts have been truly manufactured in
these United States.

But the selection of the right parts, the careful assembly and burn-in, and the
installation of the operating system up-to-date with the latest almost daily
patches from Micro$oft sure do not have to be outsourced. Competent and
personal service cannot be outsourced... Ben Myers

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 19:10:00 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 18:08:52 GMT, ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net
(Ben Myers) wrote:

99% of the people buying computers are so enamored with getting the best deal
and the lowest price, that it has become impossible to for most white box
builders like myself to compete

That is a sad state of affairs isn't it? The guy I am letting build
my systems now is owner, not just manager, but owner of a Radio Shack.
Before setting up the Radio Shack, he ran a computer store and built
white boxes but not enough to keep all the bills paid. So, he opened
this Radio Shack. But, in the back of the radio Shack, he still
builds computers and has a growing clientele. I guess the good thing
is, that the Radio Shack store draws people in for other things and
while there, they see his white boxes on display and one thing usually
leads to another. I think his bargain basement system runs around
$499 but like Nik says, you get local support with that from the guy
that built the system to start with. My last system from him ran
right under $850, less monitor, and is a bitchen' machine maxed out in
performance and crazy with case mods to boot. He gives the same
warranty the corporations tell you that you are getting except that he
honors all of them. And unlike what Nik was telling about GW and
others sending out refurbished parts as warranty replacements, this
guy replaces with brand new parts. He will also come out to your
house if need be.

I got my own little story I read about refurbished warranty
replacements from GW. This person's monitor died that came with his
brand new two week old GW system. After trying 4-5 times to get
someone that spoke English at support, it was determined that he get a
replacement. When the replacement came, it was scratched up and
tarnished brown all over from cigarette tar and wreaked of cigarette
smoke. Being a non-smoker, he couldn't handle this as it also stank
up the whole house, especially when it warmed up. They called GW
support and got no where. They called GW customer service and was
told sorry, but the warranty says that any replacements can be
refurbished parts and as long as they "Work Properly", they are
considered as meeting the requirements of the warranty. This was a
Two Week Old New System!

And 100% of
the parts I use are made somewhere out there on the Pacific Rim... Ben Myers

It's not so much as where the parts were made as it is the loving care
and attention to detail with which they are assembled to make a
quality system. Throw in quality local support, honesty and integrity
with that and you have a happy and ever returning customer base even
though the cost is a little bit more.

There are those that require customized quality builds backed by local
support. The rest by cheap Asian boxes with American company names on
them supported by Ra'ull in India.

I do remember back when GW built quality systems right here in the
states along with English speaking support from North America. I had
two of them back in the early to mid 90s. You said (in so many
words) that outsourcing is the wave of the future and so be it, we
have to accept it. I on the other hand, do not accept it. That is
why I purchase white boxes from a local builder, supported by a local
builder. I am not saying that I have that choice in each and every
product that I buy, but the ones where I have a choice, I buy locally
or as close to American Made as possible. These rat faced immoral
companies might sell out America but that doesn't mean I have to when
I have a choice. Now I didn't have a choice when it came to my
notebook as none of us do when it comes to notebooks. At least I
don't know anyone manufacturing notebooks stateside. But desktops for
me will forever be local builds backed by local support.

Good luck with your white box business Ben.

Ed

wrote in message
oups.com...
But as you see, they still try. Supporters of job outsourcing and
deceptive marketing practices always try to justify it by twisting it
into some demented reasoning that if the parts were made in Tiawane
then supporting companies like Gateway, Hp, Compaque, and all the
others is justified over supporting your local builders. Like you,
they got to get up real early in the morning to pull that type of spin
over on me. But like a little puppy, they just keep coming back. You
really have to feel sad for them though.

Its like those that think M$ and Bill Gates are what you see when
looking up God in the dictionary. I have seen responses from M$ Clones
concerning this latest revelation of M$ debauchery about the Claria
scandal. The mindless programmed M$ clones say to those that have
issue with the scandal that they can always use another OS. You see
how they think? If you don't like Lies, Deception, Scandal and
Corruption, then go away instead of doing something about the Lies,
Deception, Scandal and Corruption. Same with these supporters of these
companies you are talking about that use false marketing schemes. If
you would rather do business with someone in your own community that
assembles and supports computers instead of people like Gateway, Hp,
Compaque, and all the others who use deceptive marketing schemes to try
and make people thing that they are, as you pointed out, American
Companies, selling an American Made product, made by Americans and
supported by Americans, then you must be ignorant to where the parts
are made. Now what in the hell does that have to do with deceptive
marketing practices and choosing to support a local business that
assembles and supports the machine from your own community. They are
trying to be just as deceptive about the truth as those deceptive
companies they are trying to support such actions from.

As with you, they have no case with me.

NIK

***** Email Address is Fake *****



Ed wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:48:03 -0600, "Tom Clydesdale"
wrote:

And your local builder is going to use parts made where?

[quote]
"There is no way that anyone can justify these company practices to
me. There is no amount of spinning, misquoting or bending the truth
that can make it "OK" with me".
[End Quote]

Sorry....

We digress. The commentary began on the topic of warranties and support.

The issue really is not where the box was made, but the quality there in
and the further quality of the support. There are basically four ways it
can go.

A well made product with good support will succeed all other market
variables being equal..

A well made product with poor support may survive because the end user
rarely has need of support from the manufacturer. This company and or user
supported forums and newsgroups such as this would even further that by
supplementing the company's poor support with a much broader pool of
knowledge and experience.

Conversely a poorly made product with great support may survive in the
short term, but it will inevitably be culled from the market by the end
users themselves. No matter how great the support is and that includes
company and/or user supported forums and newsgroups.

A poor made and supported product may not even make it as a foot note in
the history of technology.

The only glaring exception to this is M$ and that is a matter of
marketing, monopoly (and I mean that in the bad way), and pure unadulterated
luck.

KC