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#1
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one more heat issue question...
I was having strange heat fluxuations in the bios with my CPU so I called in
some favors and got my hands on another one and it didn't have these issues so I RMA'ed my processor, installed and everything seemed fine in the BIOS temps. But then I loaded windows & drivers and went to install a game... about 30 minutes into the install my computer shuts down again due to heat. Now I'm not doing anything taxing to the system but I'm still having heat issues... I haven't made any changes to my default bios settings (and it is the latest available) and I've made sure cool & quiet is running but nothing seems to help. I even pulled the side of the case off and put a box fan on high blowing directly onto the system but that only gets me about 20 more minutes before everything overheats (the room is also cool). I'm really thinking that my motherboard is faulty at this point, but I'm just guessing... I have seen a few others via google having heat issues running similar gigabyte boards and these processors... but nothing like what I'm experiencing, they're overclocking before they're experiencing anything like the heat issues I'm getting just from running windows. I am running a stock CPU cooler, but I've installed my video card as far away from the CPU as possible and I have good fans on the case but all in all I don't think I should get these overheating issues just from basically running windows. Does anyone have any other ideas? I really don't want to go out and spend $100 on additional cooling if I have other issues going on. GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 (F4 BIOS) AMD FX-8120 Zambezi 3.1GHz Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop KingstonKHX1600C9D3X2K2/4GX DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 x2 Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB x2 (RAID 0) ATI Radeon HD 5770 LiteOn iHAS424 - DVD±RW Thermaltake Toughpower 750W Windows 7 64 |
#2
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one more heat issue question...
"Matt" wrote in message ... I was having strange heat fluxuations in the bios with my CPU so I called in some favors and got my hands on another one and it didn't have these issues so I RMA'ed my processor, installed and everything seemed fine in the BIOS temps. But then I loaded windows & drivers and went to install a game... about 30 minutes into the install my computer shuts down again due to heat. Now I'm not doing anything taxing to the system but I'm still having heat issues... I haven't made any changes to my default bios settings (and it is the latest available) and I've made sure cool & quiet is running but nothing seems to help. I even pulled the side of the case off and put a box fan on high blowing directly onto the system but that only gets me about 20 more minutes before everything overheats (the room is also cool). I'm really thinking that my motherboard is faulty at this point, but I'm just guessing... I have seen a few others via google having heat issues running similar gigabyte boards and these processors... but nothing like what I'm experiencing, they're overclocking before they're experiencing anything like the heat issues I'm getting just from running windows. I am running a stock CPU cooler, but I've installed my video card as far away from the CPU as possible and I have good fans on the case but all in all I don't think I should get these overheating issues just from basically running windows. Does anyone have any other ideas? I really don't want to go out and spend $100 on additional cooling if I have other issues going on. GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 (F4 BIOS) AMD FX-8120 Zambezi 3.1GHz Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop KingstonKHX1600C9D3X2K2/4GX DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 x2 Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB x2 (RAID 0) ATI Radeon HD 5770 LiteOn iHAS424 - DVD±RW Thermaltake Toughpower 750W Windows 7 64 If you don't already have it, download and install CPU-Z http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html . On the first (CPU) page, look at what the Max TDP is. It's possible your stock cooler isn't drawing off enough heat. In your BIOS, under Advanced BIOS Settings, is an option to turn cores on or off. Set it to Manual and turn off cores 4 through 7. This will basically make it a quad-core AMD, but should reduce your heat. Try it for a while and monitor those temps. If it runs cool enough without overheating, add two more cores and see what the increase is. If going to six cores causes a tremendous jump in temp, disable one core and enable a different one; i.e., disable 4 and enable 7. If going through all the combinations doesn't change anything dramatically, I would hazard a guess that the stock cooler isn't enough. -- SC Tom |
#3
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one more heat issue question...
Matt wrote:
I was having strange heat fluxuations in the bios with my CPU so I called in some favors and got my hands on another one and it didn't have these issues so I RMA'ed my processor, installed and everything seemed fine in the BIOS temps. But then I loaded windows & drivers and went to install a game... about 30 minutes into the install my computer shuts down again due to heat. Now I'm not doing anything taxing to the system but I'm still having heat issues... I haven't made any changes to my default bios settings (and it is the latest available) and I've made sure cool & quiet is running but nothing seems to help. I even pulled the side of the case off and put a box fan on high blowing directly onto the system but that only gets me about 20 more minutes before everything overheats (the room is also cool). I'm really thinking that my motherboard is faulty at this point, but I'm just guessing... I have seen a few others via google having heat issues running similar gigabyte boards and these processors... but nothing like what I'm experiencing, they're overclocking before they're experiencing anything like the heat issues I'm getting just from running windows. I am running a stock CPU cooler, but I've installed my video card as far away from the CPU as possible and I have good fans on the case but all in all I don't think I should get these overheating issues just from basically running windows. Does anyone have any other ideas? I really don't want to go out and spend $100 on additional cooling if I have other issues going on. GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 (F4 BIOS) AMD FX-8120 Zambezi 3.1GHz Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop KingstonKHX1600C9D3X2K2/4GX DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 x2 Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB x2 (RAID 0) ATI Radeon HD 5770 LiteOn iHAS424 - DVD±RW Thermaltake Toughpower 750W Windows 7 64 CPU fan running? Did you apply thermal paste to the heatsink? Do you gob on the heat paste or apply a very thin translucent coat? Is the CPU fan blowing into the heatsink or sucking out of it? Is it a messily cabled case so that cables obstruct air flow through the case? Are there any flat cables (IDE)? If so, are they 90-degrees to the airflow or 0/180/360 degrees with it (so air can move past the flat cables instead impinging on and getting redirected by them)? Does the PSU have 1 or 2 fans? If it has 2 fans, and since the 2nd fan (at the intake side of the PSU and closest to the CPU) is probably not spinning until the PSU gets hot), where is the airflow away from the fan and heatsink on the CPU? Is there a case fan on the backside of the case to suck out the CPU-heated air if the 2nd PSU fan isn't spinning (and not supposed to until the PSU gets hot)? What's the case temperature? Cooling only works if there is a differential in temperatures and they're only be a differential in internal case temperature if there is air flowing through it. Despite having a PSU and case exhaust fans, they can't move air that doesn't first get into the case through the intake areas. When you used a duster can to blow out the case (dust is a thermal insulator), did you also blow out behind the front panel so the intake area was clear of dust bunnies? If you have a front case fan, is it spinning or not? If it's not spinning (because to thermal control), is there enough intake area elsewhere and through the non-spinning fan? Do you have any filter meshes over any of the case fans? If so, tried removing them and retesting? Tried cleaning them (they might be washable)? A common mistake I've seen with folks that mod their case or have one with the opening in the side panel is to install a side panel case fan that is blowing in the opposite direction of the CPU fan. Despite the original airflow design of the ATX case, some folks have found better CPU (and case) cooling by turning around the backside case fan so it's an intake rather than exhaust. This would have a short path of over the CPU and get sucked into the PSU to exhaust so it mostly just helps with the CPU temperature. If you do that, monitor temperatures for hard disks and memory since now the airflow through the case won't include passing air over those components unless you have a front fan as intake. Also, some cases result in lower temperatures if you remove a couple card blanks at the bottom of the backside of the case. You have to experiment to see what works best for you. That you take off the side panel and direct a large fan into the case (supposedly blowing into the case instead of trying to suck out of it) but that doesn't help but delay the overheating, I'd start looking at the heatsink for dust in and on its fins, lack of thermal paste between heatsink and CPU (or way too much of it), or that the CPU fan is even spinning (something you didn't mention but most BIOS'es will see zero RPM and do an immediate shutdown). Thermal paste is used only to fill the microscopic gaps which result in air gaps between the mating surfaces of the heatsink and CPU heat plate. Thermal paste has a better heat transfer rate than air but it doesn't come anywhere close to metal-to-metal contact. You want as much of the metal on the mating surfaces to contact each other. You don't want to insulate the metal surfaces with paste. I'd say the vast majority of users (even techs) putting together a host end up slathering way too much thermal paste on the heatsink which results in insulating it from the CPU. Not only do you want a thin and translucent layer of paste, you want to apply pressure and twist the heatsink onto the CPU to make sure the paste is where it is needed and not where it isn't. The pressure of the retaining bracket/screws holding down the heatsink against the CPU plate will squeeze out some more unneeded paste (if it's of low viscosity enough to squeeze out) but it doesn't compensate for putting on way too much paste. You need to thoroughly clean the mating surfaces and apply a thin translucent layer to one surface only. Then push and twist the heatsink onto the CPU, and then clamp it down. In fact, some users will even lap the mating surfaces to make sure they have as much metal-to-metal contact as possible (so the paste is used to fill as few microscopic air gaps as possible). Many heatsinks are rather rough and won't mate that well and rely way too much on paste or pads to compensate (it might look shiny to your eye but that doesn't mean it is smooth for best surface mating nor that it is flat). You get a plate of glass, 3000 grit sandpaper (wet), and rubbing compound to lap (polish) the surfaces flat so they mate as best you can. That takes a lot more work than most users are willing to expend. Sometimes when you use paste without lapping the surfaces, you can take them apart to see entire areas where the surfaces never met. Not only might one surface be uneven but it could be cupped. This means instead of filling microscopic air gaps in the surfaces that you can't see, the paste is instead filling a rather large pocket of dead space betweeen the surfaces. While lapping takes time, it's easy to do for the heatsink but you have to be careful when lapping the CPU plate since it is thin. It's also possible the hold-down mechanism for the heatsink results in uneven pressure of the heatsink against the CPU plate. If you were using thermal pads, remove and clean them off and replace with thermal paste (and not what came with the heatsink but some better qualify stuff but you don't necessarily need the Artic silver stuff). Pads are used to circumvent lazy and oafish users that haven't a clue on how to properly use paste. They are designed to change state (phase change) upon pressure and heat and if used just once they can be as effective as paste used by noobs that don't know how to apply it. The pad melts under pressure and heat (so it gets better over a burn-in time). It changes state because it's paraffin based which mean it melts to do under pressure and heat what the paste is supposed to do yet pads always seem to be thicker even after months of pressure than is paste plus the pad is always there whereas paste will move out under the most pressured areas which is where metal wants to contact metal. Under ideal conditions, you have full metal-to-metal contact and don't need anything to fill the gaps (but I've yet to see where CPUs were manufactured with a heat plate that was instead a heatsink). Next best is to have the best mating surfaces available and fill the microscopic gaps with something that has a heat transfer rate far better than air (but which will never be as good as metal). Lowest is use of a pad since it never goes away so it's always between the surfaces. See http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/26951.pdf. |
#4
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one more heat issue question...
Matt wrote:
I was having strange heat fluxuations in the bios with my CPU so I called in some favors and got my hands on another one and it didn't have these issues so I RMA'ed my processor, installed and everything seemed fine in the BIOS temps. But then I loaded windows & drivers and went to install a game... about 30 minutes into the install my computer shuts down again due to heat. Now I'm not doing anything taxing to the system but I'm still having heat issues... I haven't made any changes to my default bios settings (and it is the latest available) and I've made sure cool & quiet is running but nothing seems to help. I even pulled the side of the case off and put a box fan on high blowing directly onto the system but that only gets me about 20 more minutes before everything overheats (the room is also cool). I'm really thinking that my motherboard is faulty at this point, but I'm just guessing... I have seen a few others via google having heat issues running similar gigabyte boards and these processors... but nothing like what I'm experiencing, they're overclocking before they're experiencing anything like the heat issues I'm getting just from running windows. I am running a stock CPU cooler, but I've installed my video card as far away from the CPU as possible and I have good fans on the case but all in all I don't think I should get these overheating issues just from basically running windows. Does anyone have any other ideas? I really don't want to go out and spend $100 on additional cooling if I have other issues going on. GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 (F4 BIOS) AMD FX-8120 Zambezi 3.1GHz Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop KingstonKHX1600C9D3X2K2/4GX DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 x2 Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB x2 (RAID 0) ATI Radeon HD 5770 LiteOn iHAS424 - DVD±RW Thermaltake Toughpower 750W Windows 7 64 Maybe the BIOS has set VCore too high ? Other than that, you own a 125W processor, so you need a 125W cooler. Paul |
#5
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one more heat issue question...
On Nov 11, 6:37*pm, VanguardLH wrote:
Matt wrote: I was having strange heat fluxuations in the bios with my CPU so I called in some favors and got my hands on another one and it didn't have these issues so I RMA'ed my processor, installed and everything seemed fine in the BIOS temps. But then I loaded windows & drivers and went to install a game.... about 30 minutes into the install my computer shuts down again due to heat. Now I'm not doing anything taxing to the system but I'm still having heat issues... I haven't made any changes to my default bios settings (and it is the latest available) and I've made sure cool & quiet is running but nothing seems to help. I even pulled the side of the case off and put a box fan on high blowing directly onto the system but that only gets me about 20 more minutes before everything overheats (the room is also cool). *I'm really thinking that my motherboard is faulty at this point, but I'm just guessing... I have seen a few others via google having heat issues running similar gigabyte boards and these processors... but nothing like what I'm experiencing, they're overclocking before they're experiencing anything like the heat issues I'm getting just from running windows. I am running a stock CPU cooler, but I've installed my video card as far away from the CPU as possible and I have good fans on the case but all in all I don't think I should get these overheating issues just from basically running windows.. Does anyone have any other ideas? I really don't want to go out and spend $100 on additional cooling if I have other issues going on. GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 (F4 BIOS) AMD FX-8120 Zambezi 3.1GHz Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Desktop KingstonKHX1600C9D3X2K2/4GX DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 x2 Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB x2 (RAID 0) ATI Radeon HD 5770 LiteOn iHAS424 - DVD±RW Thermaltake Toughpower 750W Windows 7 64 CPU fan running? Did you apply thermal paste to the heatsink? Do you gob on the heat paste or apply a very thin translucent coat? Is the CPU fan blowing into the heatsink or sucking out of it? Is it a messily cabled case so that cables obstruct air flow through the case? *Are there any flat cables (IDE)? *If so, are they 90-degrees to the airflow or 0/180/360 degrees with it (so air can move past the flat cables instead impinging on and getting redirected by them)? Does the PSU have 1 or 2 fans? *If it has 2 fans, and since the 2nd fan (at the intake side of the PSU and closest to the CPU) is probably not spinning until the PSU gets hot), where is the airflow away from the fan and heatsink on the CPU? *Is there a case fan on the backside of the case to suck out the CPU-heated air if the 2nd PSU fan isn't spinning (and not supposed to until the PSU gets hot)? What's the case temperature? *Cooling only works if there is a differential in temperatures and they're only be a differential in internal case temperature if there is air flowing through it. *Despite having a PSU and case exhaust fans, they can't move air that doesn't first get into the case through the intake areas. *When you used a duster can to blow out the case (dust is a thermal insulator), did you also blow out behind the front panel so the intake area was clear of dust bunnies? *If you have a front case fan, is it spinning or not? *If it's not spinning (because to thermal control), is there enough intake area elsewhere and through the non-spinning fan? Do you have any filter meshes over any of the case fans? *If so, tried removing them and retesting? *Tried cleaning them (they might be washable)? A common mistake I've seen with folks that mod their case or have one with the opening in the side panel is to install a side panel case fan that is blowing in the opposite direction of the CPU fan. *Despite the original airflow design of the ATX case, some folks have found better CPU (and case) cooling by turning around the backside case fan so it's an intake rather than exhaust. *This would have a short path of over the CPU and get sucked into the PSU to exhaust so it mostly just helps with the CPU temperature. *If you do that, monitor temperatures for hard disks and memory since now the airflow through the case won't include passing air over those components unless you have a front fan as intake. Also, some cases result in lower temperatures if you remove a couple card blanks at the bottom of the backside of the case. *You have to experiment to see what works best for you. That you take off the side panel and direct a large fan into the case (supposedly blowing into the case instead of trying to suck out of it) but that doesn't help but delay the overheating, I'd start looking at the heatsink for dust in and on its fins, lack of thermal paste between heatsink and CPU (or way too much of it), or that the CPU fan is even spinning (something you didn't mention but most BIOS'es will see zero RPM and do an immediate shutdown). Thermal paste is used only to fill the microscopic gaps which result in air gaps between the mating surfaces of the heatsink and CPU heat plate. Thermal paste has a better heat transfer rate than air but it doesn't come anywhere close to metal-to-metal contact. *You want as much of the metal on the mating surfaces to contact each other. *You don't want to insulate the metal surfaces with paste. *I'd say the vast majority of users (even techs) putting together a host end up slathering way too much thermal paste on the heatsink which results in insulating it from the CPU. *Not only do you want a thin and translucent layer of paste, you want to apply pressure and twist the heatsink onto the CPU to make sure the paste is where it is needed and not where it isn't. *The pressure of the retaining bracket/screws holding down the heatsink against the CPU plate will squeeze out some more unneeded paste (if it's of low viscosity enough to squeeze out) but it doesn't compensate for putting on way too much paste. *You need to thoroughly clean the mating surfaces and apply a thin translucent layer to one surface only. *Then push and twist the heatsink onto the CPU, and then clamp it down. In fact, some users will even lap the mating surfaces to make sure they have as much metal-to-metal contact as possible (so the paste is used to fill as few microscopic air gaps as possible). *Many heatsinks are rather rough and won't mate that well and rely way too much on paste or pads to compensate (it might look shiny to your eye but that doesn't mean it is smooth for best surface mating nor that it is flat). *You get a plate of glass, 3000 grit sandpaper (wet), and rubbing compound to lap (polish) the surfaces flat so they mate as best you can. *That takes a lot more work than most users are willing to expend. *Sometimes when you use paste without lapping the surfaces, you can take them apart to see entire areas where the surfaces never met. *Not only might one surface be uneven but it could be cupped. *This means instead of filling microscopic air gaps in the surfaces that you can't see, the paste is instead filling a rather large pocket of dead space betweeen the surfaces. *While lapping takes time, it's easy to do for the heatsink but you have to be careful when lapping the CPU plate since it is thin. It's also possible the hold-down mechanism for the heatsink results in uneven pressure of the heatsink against the CPU plate. If you were using thermal pads, remove and clean them off and replace with thermal paste (and not what came with the heatsink but some better qualify stuff but you don't necessarily need the Artic silver stuff). Pads are used to circumvent lazy and oafish users that haven't a clue on how to properly use paste. *They are designed to change state (phase change) upon pressure and heat and if used just once they can be as effective as paste used by noobs that don't know how to apply it. *The pad melts under pressure and heat (so it gets better over a burn-in time). *It changes state because it's paraffin based which mean it melts to do under pressure and heat what the paste is supposed to do yet pads always seem to be thicker even after months of pressure than is paste plus the pad is always there whereas paste will move out under the most pressured areas which is where metal wants to contact metal. *Under ideal conditions, you have full metal-to-metal contact and don't need anything to fill the gaps (but I've yet to see where CPUs were manufactured with a heat plate that was instead a heatsink). *Next best is to have the best mating surfaces available and fill the microscopic gaps with something that has a heat transfer rate far better than air (but which will never be as good as metal). *Lowest is use of a pad since it never goes away so it's always between the surfaces. *Seehttp://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/26951.pdf. I'm not a pro builder or anything but this isn't my first.. I say that because I did cover the basics...I did use the stock fan with the cpu and the stock thermal paste (normally I clean this off and put my own on there, but usually a system will at least run windows with the stock thermal paste)... I have tied off all power cables in the case so that everything is open... all of the fans are spinning... all of the equipment in this system is new so there is no dust on any of the fan blades, and my fans suck heat away from the cpu. I've not tried going into the bios and shutting down cores or messing with any of the voltage settings yet... nor have I tried anything but the stock cpu cooler provided by AMD. But all in all I don't feel like I should need to make any bios changes or require anything but the stock fan just to run windows. I've seen others with heat issues when running this mobo/cpu combo but they are all overclocking.. I'm just trying to run the OS at stock settings... I find it extremely hard to believe that AMD would ship out this CPU if the provided stock fan wasn't enough to cool it just to run windows. I'll try messing with the cores tonight.. maybe that will tell me if it is indeed a heating issue and not the motherboard. Thanks for the suggestions. |
#6
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one more heat issue question...
Matt wrote:
I'm not a pro builder or anything but this isn't my first.. I say that because I did cover the basics...I did use the stock fan with the cpu and the stock thermal paste (normally I clean this off and put my own on there, but usually a system will at least run windows with the stock thermal paste)... I have tied off all power cables in the case so that everything is open... all of the fans are spinning... all of the equipment in this system is new so there is no dust on any of the fan blades, and my fans suck heat away from the cpu. I've not tried going into the bios and shutting down cores or messing with any of the voltage settings yet... nor have I tried anything but the stock cpu cooler provided by AMD. But all in all I don't feel like I should need to make any bios changes or require anything but the stock fan just to run windows. I've seen others with heat issues when running this mobo/cpu combo but they are all overclocking.. I'm just trying to run the OS at stock settings... I find it extremely hard to believe that AMD would ship out this CPU if the provided stock fan wasn't enough to cool it just to run windows. I'll try messing with the cores tonight.. maybe that will tell me if it is indeed a heating issue and not the motherboard. Thanks for the suggestions. "I don't feel like I should need to make any bios changes or require anything but the stock fan just to run windows." Correct. The cooling system should be engineered to take the entire TDP. The system should remain stable, and at a decently low temperature, even when Prime95 threads are running on each CPU core. If running Prime95 causes the system to shut off on a "THERMTRIP", then your system hasn't been engineered properly. You'd need a better cooler, or, fix whatever is wrong with the fitment (no paste, no normal force etc). It could even be, that waste heat is not being moved out of the computer case fast enough, and the case air temp is shooting up to 50C over a period of ten minutes. If VCore is set higher than is necessary, such as an older motherboard running a newer processor, and using the wrong VID table, then the overheat can be caused by the motherboard company. There have been boards in the past, where in retrospect, users eventually figured out the stupid BIOS was overvolting. You don't "accept" a system, unless the cooler is handling the worst case cooling. Run Prime95 for an hour or two, to see if the CPU has enough cooling, and to see whether the fan on the back of the case, is removing waste heat fast enough. You don't test the system, by sitting idle in the desktop, because that's not a "reasonable worst case" scenario. You certainly have the option of detuning the system, to reduce power consumption. But when putting a cooler in there, you don't, on purpose, use a wimpy cooler. That's only asking for trouble. You wouldn't put a 35W cooler on a 125W processor, because there is some risk, given the right set of conditions, that the processor will kick out 125W of waste heat. Say the end user, resets the BIOS with a "Clear CMOS", then boots a Linux LiveCD and runs a copy of Prime95. All of your careful powermiser settings can be blown away, just that easily. ******* Retail coolers are a mixed bag. When you get a cooler with a CPU, the manufacturer is supposed to determine that it is adequate for the purpose. Generally, you don't get the best technology (heat pipes for heat distribution), in a retail boxed CPU cooler. They try to cheap out, as best they can. To give an example, I have a 65nm Core2 Duo, and it is rated at 65W TDP. By measurement, worst case, the max it draws is 36W. So it's very good on power, and when I had the option of using the retail in-box cooler, I did not hesitate (I moved that processor to another system, and since I'd done the measurement with a clamp-on ammeter, knew there was zero chance of overheating with virtually any kind of cooler). On something like Prescott processors, there might have been a need to switch to an after-market cooler, because the one in the box wasn't good enough. In some cases, no amount of tinkering, brought the temps down to within reason (65-70C Tcase). I've had at least one Intel processor, that ran above TDP value (by measurement), and that happens occasionally. Those were the bad old days. That one had an aftermarket cooler on it, purely by chance. Paul |
#7
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one more heat issue question...
On Nov 11, 2:52 pm, "Matt" wrote:
Does anyone have any other ideas? I really don't want to go out and spend $100 on additional cooling if I have other issues going on. Take a deep breath before getting another fan and potentially pocketing an extra $50? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103099 Seriously, there's some serious fan designs around those chips, and, surprise...surprise, it ain't all so cheap. Bleedin' all over on the bloody edge sometimes is as bad getting what you paid for. Are you aware AMD is/has contracted within the cooler industry for an AMD-logo package, over-market of their stock unit, in line with higher-end cooling advancements on self-contained water units that have been kicking around for the past 5 or so years? |
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