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#101
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Strange Screws
"Rob B" wrote in message nk.net
"J. Clarke" wrote in message ... Stan Blazejewski wrote: snip Examine that filter carefully and you will find that its primary function is to filter the tiny amount of air moving through the pressure-equalization hole and that there is no mechanism by which all or any significant portion of the air circulating inside the capsule can be made to pass through it. The 'new' drives I've pulled apart for the magnets seem to have the air filters as well although I'd expect today's technology to be less tolerant to dirty air what with the amount of data that they pack into the smaller space but I still wouldn't expect it to die in "a few days or weeks". It dies as soon as something hard enough to scratch the platter or head and small enough to get wedged between them finds its way into that space. In the real world people have tried this, and the drives typically died in anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks. snip the Math-CS dept at my alma-mater had pretty poster depicting the magnified size of various particles hair, dust, skin cell and smoke particles next to the disk heads and the cushion of air that head float on and if i remember correctly the smoke particle would barely squeeze between the head and platter So it won't go there in the first place. The hurricane that rages there will blow it away before it even reaches there. guessing you were dust lucky with the drive surgery Pun intended? |
#102
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Strange Screws
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
Rob B wrote: "J. Clarke" lid wrote in message ... Stan Blazejewski wrote: snip [and snip again] snip the Math-CS dept at my alma-mater had pretty poster depicting the magnified size of various particles hair, dust, skin cell and smoke particles next to the disk heads and the cushion of air that head float on and if i remember correctly the smoke particle would barely squeeze between the head and platter guessing you were dust lucky with the drive surgery Not me, the only time I've opened drives either they were already dead or they were old drives being used as show-and-tells when teaching a class. Never expected them to actually run afterwards. But if you will google the archive for this newsgroup I think you'll find some reports from people who have done this to see how long the drive would run. Would run opened, continuously all the time. One thing that is really bad news is fingerprints. I've seen a fingerprint rip the head off and toss it across the room (somebody decided to power up a show-and-tell after it had been passed around the classroom). If it's _thicker_ than the gap and not stuck down and not too massive it just gets pushed aside. At low speed, which means it must be in the landing zone. Anywhere else it is catapulted off the platter long before the platters reach full speed and before the heads are released. If it's brittle though it may shatter when it hits the head It has to hit it first for which it has to be stuck solid and then released at high velocity and hit the head (small chance) or not released at all and sitting in the landing zone where forces are less and is swept away at low speed or is practically glued to the surface somewhere else and even sticks at full velocity and the head hits it eventually during a seek or R/W. Now what are the chances of that, (bar finger prints). and make smaller particles. Which in that case fly away and end up in the filter. If it's hard and massive enough then it can chip or deform the head. A chance of one in millions. If it's an insect you get ichor on the platter and the result is similar to fingerprints. An insect will never make it to the spinning platter. Bear in mind that that poster dates from the days of removable disk packs, when drives were _not_ sealed. Disk packs are still here today (relatively). Few minicomputers were installed in special rooms and even mainframe shops generally didn't have laminar-flow positive pressure clean rooms with airlocks. Nonetheless a standard operation was for some guy in a suit and tie (if it was a corporate shop) or tie-dyed tee shirt and jeans and hair down to his ankles (if it was a university shop) to change disk packs and they ran a good long time despite such treatment. That's the reason for the posters, to remind people of why that area was supposed to be kept clean. And this little anecdote is to show what? |
#103
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Strange Screws
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Odie Ferrous wrote:
"David C. Partridge" wrote: Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die. Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws? Perhaps the drive already *is* dead. Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A "clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles. For what it's worth, I've had a drive running non-stop for over a week without its cover (platters exposed) and haven't had any hiccups. This hype about "clean rooms" is a load of drivel. Interessting. Arno |
#104
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Strange Screws
"James Sweet" wrote in message news:hLlzf.16289$sq.7248@trnddc01
Folkert Rienstra wrote: "James Sweet" wrote in message news:rzYyf.15937$h47.10775@trnddc08 mm wrote: On 16 Jan 2006 08:17:07 -0800, " wrote: .... I've opened hard drives again and again in very filthy rooms and they've never shown any ill effects over the days, or in some cases weeks, that I operated them. I do this all the time with old drives because I can see what's happening inside the drive while I test my control circuitry. If I was manufacturing hundreds of thousands of drives and had to worry about warranties and customer satisfaction, I'd be doing it in a clean room. And I would buy a new drive before attempting to repair a damaged one. But you definitely can operate a hard drive without the cover for a while; probably long enough to do whatever you want if you don't dawdle. My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing me from copying the data to a good drive. There's nothing you can do by opening it. If it's clicking that means it's unable to read the disc due to a hardware failure. Nonsense. If it's clicking it means it does a rezero every time it retries a read operation. It does that on ECC errors and also on CRC errors on the interface. Neither is necessarily caused by a hardware failure. Bad power supply, overheated drive or bad data cable can cause this too. Every single time I've ever had a hard drive clicking it was caused by a failure of the drive, So either you have a pathetically inadequate small sample or you are killing all your drives. I've never even heard of it So you obviously should refrain from commen- ting as if you are the resident expert on this. caused by those other issues, with the exception being a couple of early very hot running 10K rpm drives. As if that can't happen to IDE drives. Bad drive is 99% the reason. In your case. You are known as a 'pathetically inadequate sample'. |
#105
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Strange Screws
Arno Wagner wrote:
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Odie Ferrous wrote: "David C. Partridge" wrote: Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die. Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws? Perhaps the drive already *is* dead. Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A "clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles. For what it's worth, I've had a drive running non-stop for over a week without its cover (platters exposed) and haven't had any hiccups. This hype about "clean rooms" is a load of drivel. Interessting. Interesting but the drive is running on borrowed time. Perhaps you should store all your critical data on it and see how long it continues to operate like that. |
#106
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Strange Screws
"Stephen Lee -- post replies please" wrote in message
According to mm : (Chris Lewis) wrote: The clicking is most likely retries (ie: gouged media, weak magnetics). You _can't_ fix that. You're unlikely to be able to repair even obvious It only clicks if I try to access the bad partition, and even then not always . I can read the good partitions, but I'm told the clicking will get worse. The exact same thing happened to me. I was copying stuff off one of my old Seagate HDD, and there is one file that XP can't read, saying ECC error. I ran Seatools http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/ on the drive and it identified 2 bad sectors with full diagnostic. I was able to get the file off the drive by having Seatools force a remapping of the bad sectors. The remapped sectors are zeroed, so you're getting the file damaged, but it is better than not getting anything at all. The good thing is Seatools tries to identify and tell you which file is affected (although in short 8.3 name only), so you can decide if you want to risk it or not. As for whether it will get worse, it depends on what caused the error. If it was just a transient glitch that caused the drive to make a bad write, it could be that it will develop no more error afterwards. If, say, the drive electronics is failing, you'll see more and more bad sectors (thus more clicking when you access previously-okay files). HDDs are cheap enough nowadays that I wouldn't risk my data on such a drive, but YMMV. Strange how you have no such concerns with risking your data on a new drive without checking your powersupply/supply of power first. Stephen |
#107
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Strange Screws
According to mm :
(Chris Lewis) wrote: The clicking is most likely retries (ie: gouged media, weak magnetics). You _can't_ fix that. You're unlikely to be able to repair even obvious It only clicks if I try to access the bad partition, and even then not always . I can read the good partitions, but I'm told the clicking will get worse. The exact same thing happened to me. I was copying stuff off one of my old Seagate HDD, and there is one file that XP can't read, saying ECC error. I ran Seatools http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/ on the drive and it identified 2 bad sectors with full diagnostic. I was able to get the file off the drive by having Seatools force a remapping of the bad sectors. The remapped sectors are zeroed, so you're getting the file damaged, but it is better than not getting anything at all. The good thing is Seatools tries to identify and tell you which file is affected (although in short 8.3 name only), so you can decide if you want to risk it or not. As for whether it will get worse, it depends on what caused the error. If it was just a transient glitch that caused the drive to make a bad write, it could be that it will develop no more error afterwards. If, say, the drive electronics is failing, you'll see more and more bad sectors (thus more clicking when you access previously-okay files). HDDs are cheap enough nowadays that I wouldn't risk my data on such a drive, but YMMV. Stephen |
#108
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Strange Screws
The Seagate external hard drives are in a case that holds the
2.5" drive. The case screws are Torx Plus (5 point) and are available at the site Buffalo Bill showed. The bit size looks to be an IP6 but don't quote me on that since I haven't gotten a bit yet. There are other Torx Plus tools available at the Wiha site he http://www.wihatools.com/365_IPser.htm Normal hard drives do use a standard Torx and not the Plus version. I have opened an old drive just to look inside and if there's any dust or humidity around it will mess up the platters. I opened mine to get it going long enough to get some files off of it myself rather than paying someone else to recover it. Good luck! |
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