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Problems rebuilding system



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 10th 19, 05:17 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm Why[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Problems rebuilding system

[snippage]
"Paul" wrote

Did you get a manual ?

Manual is online. Gigabyte driver siftware is online

Did you read the section in the manual about "Clear CMOS" ?

Yes. I'm not stupid.
All power must be removed when you use the shunt!

Yes.
Since the battery was dead, you don't even need to do

My bad.
a Clear CMOS. The settings are gone.

Page 31
https://download1.gigabyte.com/Files...-ds3l(r)_e.pdf

"Short: Clear CMOS Values" === this shorts a potentially low impedance
power source.
Excess current can be drawn through a
~70mA dual diode.

"Always turn off your computer and unplug the power cord
from the power outlet before clearing the CMOS values. [ switch off,
using the switch
on the back
of the PSU is sufficient
to remove
+5VSB. On an Asus mobo
the Green LED
should be extinguished.
For Dell
switch-less, unplug the PSU. ]

After clearing the CMOS values and before turning on your computer,
be sure to *remove* the jumper cap from the jumper.

Failure to do so may cause damage to the motherboard. [ Uh Oh ]

After system restart, go to BIOS Setup to load factory defaults
(select Load Optimized Defaults) or manually configure the
BIOS settings (refer to Chapter 2, "BIOS Setup," for
BIOS configurations).
"
*******

On many motherboards, the manual text section on Clear CMOS was wrong,

[snippage]
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/do...-datasheet.pdf
Other possibilities:

1) BIOS not compatible with CPU. That's a reason
for a black screen on new systems. The CPU Support
table on the Gigabyte website indicates that's
just not possible for your 9650. So that isn't
the problem. The original BIOS works for 9650.

Not true Q9650 and BIOS program working as expected. RAM detected When I
press DEL BIOS keeps trying. PS2 keyboard detected.

2) No Aux power to the video card. You forgot some
PCIE 2x3 or 2x4 connector. Highly unlikely.
If the CPU was running, it might beep the speaker
three times if the video was bad. On ATI cards,
they could pop up a red-decorated warning box on
the screen, that the power cable was not seated.

3) Many other problems could be detected with a
PCI Port 80 card (in slot nearest CPU). It's
possible there are PCI Express versions now, but
the topic of Port 80 cards never comes up any more.
A few expensive boards, have a two-digit Port 80
display right on the motherboard.


Not true or not relevant.

But that's about all that comes to mind.

Each mobo screw hole has a "keep out" zone marked in
the silk screen. No electrical components in the
motherboard design should enter the keep out circle.
As then, a screw head could touch a circuit. On a
certain Asus Nforce2 motherboard, one mounting hole
could short out an Audio channel on the sound subsystem,
leading to one dead speaker. Something was too close
to the keepout area. Design reviews are supposed to
catch **** like this.

Otherwise, the mounting holes are *designed* and
*intended* to be grounded. They help join the PCB
ground to the chassis ground. They do not need to be
insulated. On computer cases where the mounts are
made by bending metal (instead of using "posts"),
sometimes the job is so poorly done, the extra-wide
support "bump" shorts something out.


No Shorts. Circuit board working as expected. This is V1.0 BIOS of 2008
board. After many attempts I have not found a PCI or PCIe VGA or HDMI video
adapter that is recognized by BIOS. Consider: what's in an adapter? Answer:
I/O ports, RAM addresses and ROM. A not yet updated 2008 V1.0 BIOS knows
nothing. This board has dual BIOS waiting to be update.

Probability theory says my best bet would be to find a part number for a
2008 GIGABYTE PCI VGA adapter. This is a hard problem for GIGABYTE techs and
me. I have tried using Wayback Machine for dates 01/01/2008 to 31/12/2009.
I'm so stupid I cannot even find a webpage for Microsoft in that date range.
Please help me Paul, you know Wayback Machine. Please find GIGABYTE web page
or GIGABYTE PCI VGA in that date range.

Thanks.


  #2  
Old December 10th 19, 05:26 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Problems rebuilding system

Norm Why wrote:
[snippage]
"Paul" wrote

Did you get a manual ?

Manual is online. Gigabyte driver siftware is online

Did you read the section in the manual about "Clear CMOS" ?

Yes. I'm not stupid.
All power must be removed when you use the shunt!

Yes.
Since the battery was dead, you don't even need to do

My bad.
a Clear CMOS. The settings are gone.

Page 31
https://download1.gigabyte.com/Files...-ds3l(r)_e.pdf

"Short: Clear CMOS Values" === this shorts a potentially low impedance
power source.
Excess current can be drawn through a
~70mA dual diode.

"Always turn off your computer and unplug the power cord
from the power outlet before clearing the CMOS values. [ switch off,
using the switch
on the back
of the PSU is sufficient
to remove
+5VSB. On an Asus mobo
the Green LED
should be extinguished.
For Dell
switch-less, unplug the PSU. ]

After clearing the CMOS values and before turning on your computer,
be sure to *remove* the jumper cap from the jumper.

Failure to do so may cause damage to the motherboard. [ Uh Oh ]

After system restart, go to BIOS Setup to load factory defaults
(select Load Optimized Defaults) or manually configure the
BIOS settings (refer to Chapter 2, "BIOS Setup," for
BIOS configurations).
"
*******

On many motherboards, the manual text section on Clear CMOS was wrong,

[snippage]
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/do...-datasheet.pdf
Other possibilities:

1) BIOS not compatible with CPU. That's a reason
for a black screen on new systems. The CPU Support
table on the Gigabyte website indicates that's
just not possible for your 9650. So that isn't
the problem. The original BIOS works for 9650.

Not true Q9650 and BIOS program working as expected. RAM detected When I
press DEL BIOS keeps trying. PS2 keyboard detected.

2) No Aux power to the video card. You forgot some
PCIE 2x3 or 2x4 connector. Highly unlikely.
If the CPU was running, it might beep the speaker
three times if the video was bad. On ATI cards,
they could pop up a red-decorated warning box on
the screen, that the power cable was not seated.

3) Many other problems could be detected with a
PCI Port 80 card (in slot nearest CPU). It's
possible there are PCI Express versions now, but
the topic of Port 80 cards never comes up any more.
A few expensive boards, have a two-digit Port 80
display right on the motherboard.


Not true or not relevant.
But that's about all that comes to mind.

Each mobo screw hole has a "keep out" zone marked in
the silk screen. No electrical components in the
motherboard design should enter the keep out circle.
As then, a screw head could touch a circuit. On a
certain Asus Nforce2 motherboard, one mounting hole
could short out an Audio channel on the sound subsystem,
leading to one dead speaker. Something was too close
to the keepout area. Design reviews are supposed to
catch **** like this.

Otherwise, the mounting holes are *designed* and
*intended* to be grounded. They help join the PCB
ground to the chassis ground. They do not need to be
insulated. On computer cases where the mounts are
made by bending metal (instead of using "posts"),
sometimes the job is so poorly done, the extra-wide
support "bump" shorts something out.


No Shorts. Circuit board working as expected. This is V1.0 BIOS of 2008
board. After many attempts I have not found a PCI or PCIe VGA or HDMI video
adapter that is recognized by BIOS. Consider: what's in an adapter? Answer:
I/O ports, RAM addresses and ROM. A not yet updated 2008 V1.0 BIOS knows
nothing. This board has dual BIOS waiting to be update.

Probability theory says my best bet would be to find a part number for a
2008 GIGABYTE PCI VGA adapter. This is a hard problem for GIGABYTE techs and
me. I have tried using Wayback Machine for dates 01/01/2008 to 31/12/2009.
I'm so stupid I cannot even find a webpage for Microsoft in that date range.
Please help me Paul, you know Wayback Machine. Please find GIGABYTE web page
or GIGABYTE PCI VGA in that date range.

Thanks.


The only motherboard I know of, with that kind of
strange requirement, is an Asrock board with VIA chipset.
It has only a PCI Express x4 wiring for the video card
slot. And Asrock listed video cards they had tested to
work with their x4 wiring. I didn't think this was really
necessary, but Asrock insisted that some video card
products would not work. This could be the "Rev1.1 problem".

But many other motherboards have no such limitations
and they have a full video card slot. The only video slot
problem, is some (again, VIA) products, which don't
tolerate Rev2 lanes versus Rev1 lanes. So some early
revisions of PCI Express do cause problems, because
the automatic hardware speed negotiation doesn't work
properly.

The chipset involved here is P45. It's not one of the
crappy chipsets. I don't see a reason for this to fail
in that way (negotiation problem at startup).

The thread here is a random sample of such info. It
suggests newer cards having a problem in Rev1.1 slots.
But yours has a Rev2 slot.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thre...oblem.1833049/

The video slot on P45 is Rev.2 . There should not be
a problem either backwards or forwards with that. I
have an X48 (Rev.2) and a Q45 (Rev.2) and no problems
seen with them. And I have an instance of the Asrock
with the "potentially problematic" x4 wired x16 slot Rev1.1,
but I've never tested a PCIe card in that one. It's
a neat board that has two video card slots, an AGP and
a PCIe, and I always used the AGP on it.

I have tried my newest video card in the X48. And it
failed. But it failed for a good reason - not enough
address space for mapping (no beeps). The motherboard is not
new enough to have uncapped addressing. The video card
has too much memory on board for its own good. My
newest motherboard is interesting, in that the mapping
done gives "8GB onboard available" with a 64 bit OS,
and a "2GB onboard available" with a 32 bit OS. Which means
the address map is adapting some how so that the 32 bit OS
is not "starved out" by the video card. I don't think
the system I'm typing on, is quite that sophisticated,
which is why it black screens with the "large" video card
in it. The rest of my video cards are 1GB or smaller onboard.

So at the moment, I don't see a good match for "problematic
combo" in your case. The only thing that comes to mind
when those ideas are exhausted, is a power-related issue
(not enough juice for video card). And that's easy enough
to happen - I've had one case where a wire burned on the
PSU harness, and that's why the video card had "not enough
power" symptoms. I had to solder a cable to the video
card to replace the power connector on the card in that
case (no spares in my repair box for a proper fix).

*******

One trick with the Gigabyte web site, is the name changed.
It was gigabyte.com.tw at one time, and later became
gigabyte.com .

This should work.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080224...gabyte.com.tw/

The problem is, one of the links on that page is broken,
so we can't see a list of their "New" Rev.2 boards. There's
only a list of some Rev1.1 or so, boards. The 8800GTX might
have been the last of Rev1.1, in terms of "big-name" video
cards.

*******

If you are "not rich" and "don't have enough hardware for this test",
you should see if any shop offers a "$25 diagnosis service". In
the past, there were some newsgroup participants, who were
able to find mom&pop stores offering such a test. If the
tester is good, they can give feedback on what worked or
didn't work, to make a board work.

I've had to buy double the hardware on one system, to
retest every card that goes into the system, to get
things working. That's my most expensive "home diagnosis"
experience. I don't want to send you through that,
if a "$25 diagnosis" or whatever it is today,
will achieve the same results. But such tests are
subject to local availability, and lord knows what
a diagnose costs today. With inflation, the price
now might actually be unattractively high.

The only video card slots with some sort of ESD
problem, were NVidia Northbridge chipsets. Some of
those arrived out-of-the-box with one dead video
slot of two. Yours is Intel. Intel Revision2.

The other problem way back when, was the BIOS would
not accept anything other than a video card in
slot #1. This was some sort of BIOS bug. Later systems
(yours likely included), can have USB3 cards, SATA cards,
whatever you want, in the video card slots. It was just
a couple first-release BIOS that had an issue with
card type. Video would work, but not declarations
of other card types. And a BIOS update would fix it.

Since you have a dual BIOS, you could switch back
and forth between them. Normally, the contents would
be identical on the two BIOS. AFAIK, the way GB works,
is there are two main code modules (one in each Flash chip),
but only one of the chips has a boot block. This leaves
a single-point-of-failure in the Gigabyte design. I'm
sure the GB Tech Support will correct me on this,
but I was reading this somewhere years ago, as to
how theirs worked.

Note: Don't forget to hook up SPKR to the header.

We need those "beep" results.

The beeps tell us what is alive. With the video card pulled,
your system should be able to beep the "video
is missing" on the computer case SPKR (or the piezo
disc which is used on OEM boards in place of SPKR).

Both "RAM Missing" and "Video Missing" beeps are
possible. Start with both RAM and video pulled
(switch off PSU before add/remove). Listen for
"RAM Missing". Say it is two beeps. Now, plug in
RAM, listen for "Video Missing". Say, that is three
beeps. The beep pattern of the two test cases should
differ. The BIOS is able to run without RAM or Video.

You only get beeps, if CPU and BIOS are available.
No beeps, means you should look elsewhere besides
the current fixation on video. On a dual BIOS, if
no beeps, flip and try again.

The reason the PC beeps 1 time at POST, is "lamp test",
a proof that SPKR is working.

Methodical testing helps triangulation...

Paul
  #3  
Old December 11th 19, 01:43 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
~misfit~[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Problems rebuilding system

On 11/12/2019 5:26 AM, Paul wrote:
Norm Why wrote:
[snippage]
"Paul" wrote

much snipping
Probability theory says my best bet would be to find a part number for a 2008 GIGABYTE PCI VGA
adapter. This is a hard problem for GIGABYTE techs and me.


You've got Gigabyte techs helping you with an 11 year old mobo that you bought from ebay? That's
very impressive!

So at the moment, I don't see a good match for "problematic
combo" in your case. The only thing that comes to mind
when those ideas are exhausted, is a power-related issue
(not enough juice for video card).

I believe my (unanswered) input into this thread suggested that the GPU wasn't getting enough
power. IIRC the OP is using an "old 400w PSU" that worked fine with a slower CPU with fewer cores
and in an older mATX mobo (with this GPU?).

As I said in my previous post there's a good chance that the PSU simply isn't providing enough on
the +12v rails. The OP seems have a penchant for using 'old gear' so the chances are good that his
"old 400w PSU" is in fact ancient going by modern standards. Ancient enough to be putting out most
of it's rated power on the +3.3v and +5v rails and nowhere near enough on the +12v rail.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable running a Q9650, a GTX 970 and SSD / HDD RAM etc from a *modern*
400w PSU (unless it was from a tier 1 manufacturer) yet alone a (possibly) ancient one.

I ran a Q9650 for a time and, unlike modern CPUs they don't have very low power 'idle states' so
are constantly drawing quite a few watts. A GTX 970 pulls 69 watts at idle and 256 watts under load
(according to Techspot*). All from the +12v rail.

* https://www.techspot.com/review/885-nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-gtx-980/page7.html

Most hardware sites recommend using at least a minimum 500w PSU with a GTX 970 and quad-core CPU.
And that's a modern (as in 75% of rated power on +12v rail) PSU.

Just for completeness' sake I just grabbed a PSU from my 'still works just fine but obsolete' pile.
It's a Thermaltake Xaser Purepower 480W with an 04/10 date code. It's rated 18A on the +12v rail.
That's 216 watts according to my calculations. Not enough for just that GPU under load yet alone
the rest of the PC.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
  #4  
Old December 11th 19, 06:53 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Problems rebuilding system

On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 8:26:09 AM UTC-8, Paul wrote:
Norm Why wrote:
[snippage]
"Paul" wrote

Did you get a manual ?

Manual is online. Gigabyte driver siftware is online

Did you read the section in the manual about "Clear CMOS" ?

Yes. I'm not stupid.
All power must be removed when you use the shunt!

Yes.
Since the battery was dead, you don't even need to do

My bad.
a Clear CMOS. The settings are gone.

Page 31
https://download1.gigabyte.com/Files...-ds3l(r)_e.pdf

"Short: Clear CMOS Values" === this shorts a potentially low impedance
power source.
Excess current can be drawn through a
~70mA dual diode.

"Always turn off your computer and unplug the power cord
from the power outlet before clearing the CMOS values. [ switch off,
using the switch
on the back
of the PSU is sufficient
to remove
+5VSB. On an Asus mobo
the Green LED
should be extinguished.
For Dell
switch-less, unplug the PSU. ]

After clearing the CMOS values and before turning on your computer,
be sure to *remove* the jumper cap from the jumper.

Failure to do so may cause damage to the motherboard. [ Uh Oh ]

After system restart, go to BIOS Setup to load factory defaults
(select Load Optimized Defaults) or manually configure the
BIOS settings (refer to Chapter 2, "BIOS Setup," for
BIOS configurations).
"
*******

On many motherboards, the manual text section on Clear CMOS was wrong,

[snippage]
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/do...-datasheet.pdf
Other possibilities:

1) BIOS not compatible with CPU. That's a reason
for a black screen on new systems. The CPU Support
table on the Gigabyte website indicates that's
just not possible for your 9650. So that isn't
the problem. The original BIOS works for 9650.

Not true Q9650 and BIOS program working as expected. RAM detected When I
press DEL BIOS keeps trying. PS2 keyboard detected.

2) No Aux power to the video card. You forgot some
PCIE 2x3 or 2x4 connector. Highly unlikely.
If the CPU was running, it might beep the speaker
three times if the video was bad. On ATI cards,
they could pop up a red-decorated warning box on
the screen, that the power cable was not seated.

3) Many other problems could be detected with a
PCI Port 80 card (in slot nearest CPU). It's
possible there are PCI Express versions now, but
the topic of Port 80 cards never comes up any more.
A few expensive boards, have a two-digit Port 80
display right on the motherboard.


Not true or not relevant.
But that's about all that comes to mind.

Each mobo screw hole has a "keep out" zone marked in
the silk screen. No electrical components in the
motherboard design should enter the keep out circle.
As then, a screw head could touch a circuit. On a
certain Asus Nforce2 motherboard, one mounting hole
could short out an Audio channel on the sound subsystem,
leading to one dead speaker. Something was too close
to the keepout area. Design reviews are supposed to
catch **** like this.

Otherwise, the mounting holes are *designed* and
*intended* to be grounded. They help join the PCB
ground to the chassis ground. They do not need to be
insulated. On computer cases where the mounts are
made by bending metal (instead of using "posts"),
sometimes the job is so poorly done, the extra-wide
support "bump" shorts something out.


No Shorts. Circuit board working as expected. This is V1.0 BIOS of 2008
board. After many attempts I have not found a PCI or PCIe VGA or HDMI video
adapter that is recognized by BIOS. Consider: what's in an adapter? Answer:
I/O ports, RAM addresses and ROM. A not yet updated 2008 V1.0 BIOS knows
nothing. This board has dual BIOS waiting to be update.

Probability theory says my best bet would be to find a part number for a
2008 GIGABYTE PCI VGA adapter. This is a hard problem for GIGABYTE techs and
me. I have tried using Wayback Machine for dates 01/01/2008 to 31/12/2009.
I'm so stupid I cannot even find a webpage for Microsoft in that date range.
Please help me Paul, you know Wayback Machine. Please find GIGABYTE web page
or GIGABYTE PCI VGA in that date range.

Thanks.


The only motherboard I know of, with that kind of
strange requirement, is an Asrock board with VIA chipset.
It has only a PCI Express x4 wiring for the video card
slot. And Asrock listed video cards they had tested to
work with their x4 wiring. I didn't think this was really
necessary, but Asrock insisted that some video card
products would not work. This could be the "Rev1.1 problem".

But many other motherboards have no such limitations
and they have a full video card slot. The only video slot
problem, is some (again, VIA) products, which don't
tolerate Rev2 lanes versus Rev1 lanes. So some early
revisions of PCI Express do cause problems, because
the automatic hardware speed negotiation doesn't work
properly.

The chipset involved here is P45. It's not one of the
crappy chipsets. I don't see a reason for this to fail
in that way (negotiation problem at startup).

The thread here is a random sample of such info. It
suggests newer cards having a problem in Rev1.1 slots.
But yours has a Rev2 slot.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thre...oblem.1833049/

The video slot on P45 is Rev.2 . There should not be
a problem either backwards or forwards with that. I
have an X48 (Rev.2) and a Q45 (Rev.2) and no problems
seen with them. And I have an instance of the Asrock
with the "potentially problematic" x4 wired x16 slot Rev1.1,
but I've never tested a PCIe card in that one. It's
a neat board that has two video card slots, an AGP and
a PCIe, and I always used the AGP on it.

I have tried my newest video card in the X48. And it
failed. But it failed for a good reason - not enough
address space for mapping (no beeps). The motherboard is not
new enough to have uncapped addressing. The video card
has too much memory on board for its own good. My
newest motherboard is interesting, in that the mapping
done gives "8GB onboard available" with a 64 bit OS,
and a "2GB onboard available" with a 32 bit OS. Which means
the address map is adapting some how so that the 32 bit OS
is not "starved out" by the video card. I don't think
the system I'm typing on, is quite that sophisticated,
which is why it black screens with the "large" video card
in it. The rest of my video cards are 1GB or smaller onboard.

So at the moment, I don't see a good match for "problematic
combo" in your case. The only thing that comes to mind
when those ideas are exhausted, is a power-related issue
(not enough juice for video card). And that's easy enough
to happen - I've had one case where a wire burned on the
PSU harness, and that's why the video card had "not enough
power" symptoms. I had to solder a cable to the video
card to replace the power connector on the card in that
case (no spares in my repair box for a proper fix).

*******

One trick with the Gigabyte web site, is the name changed.
It was gigabyte.com.tw at one time, and later became
gigabyte.com .

This should work.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080224...gabyte.com.tw/

The problem is, one of the links on that page is broken,
so we can't see a list of their "New" Rev.2 boards. There's
only a list of some Rev1.1 or so, boards. The 8800GTX might
have been the last of Rev1.1, in terms of "big-name" video
cards.

*******

If you are "not rich" and "don't have enough hardware for this test",
you should see if any shop offers a "$25 diagnosis service". In
the past, there were some newsgroup participants, who were
able to find mom&pop stores offering such a test. If the
tester is good, they can give feedback on what worked or
didn't work, to make a board work.

I've had to buy double the hardware on one system, to
retest every card that goes into the system, to get
things working. That's my most expensive "home diagnosis"
experience. I don't want to send you through that,
if a "$25 diagnosis" or whatever it is today,
will achieve the same results. But such tests are
subject to local availability, and lord knows what
a diagnose costs today. With inflation, the price
now might actually be unattractively high.

The only video card slots with some sort of ESD
problem, were NVidia Northbridge chipsets. Some of
those arrived out-of-the-box with one dead video
slot of two. Yours is Intel. Intel Revision2.

The other problem way back when, was the BIOS would
not accept anything other than a video card in
slot #1. This was some sort of BIOS bug. Later systems
(yours likely included), can have USB3 cards, SATA cards,
whatever you want, in the video card slots. It was just
a couple first-release BIOS that had an issue with
card type. Video would work, but not declarations
of other card types. And a BIOS update would fix it.

Since you have a dual BIOS, you could switch back
and forth between them. Normally, the contents would
be identical on the two BIOS. AFAIK, the way GB works,
is there are two main code modules (one in each Flash chip),
but only one of the chips has a boot block. This leaves
a single-point-of-failure in the Gigabyte design. I'm
sure the GB Tech Support will correct me on this,
but I was reading this somewhere years ago, as to
how theirs worked.

Note: Don't forget to hook up SPKR to the header.

We need those "beep" results.

The beeps tell us what is alive. With the video card pulled,
your system should be able to beep the "video
is missing" on the computer case SPKR (or the piezo
disc which is used on OEM boards in place of SPKR).

Both "RAM Missing" and "Video Missing" beeps are
possible. Start with both RAM and video pulled
(switch off PSU before add/remove). Listen for
"RAM Missing". Say it is two beeps. Now, plug in
RAM, listen for "Video Missing". Say, that is three
beeps. The beep pattern of the two test cases should
differ. The BIOS is able to run without RAM or Video.

You only get beeps, if CPU and BIOS are available.
No beeps, means you should look elsewhere besides
the current fixation on video. On a dual BIOS, if
no beeps, flip and try again.

The reason the PC beeps 1 time at POST, is "lamp test",
a proof that SPKR is working.

Methodical testing helps triangulation...

Paul


Thanks Paul, I did not find my GA-EP45-DS3L until Dec. 16, 2008. Back then they recommended ATI. I used WBM to find www.ati.com. That was worse. ATI was acquired by AMD so MBW was very confused.

One kind gentle whom I may have unfairly roasted suggested I check power. I checked the ATX power cable and it was not tight, so I tightened it. I can check +5, +12 and -12 (if present) on a SATA power cable. It is hard, and I haven't gotten there yet, but it should be good, given a new 400W PSU. This is the fourth PSU. The 3rd I sold because I falsely diagnosed a sympathetic (harmonic) vibration. NOT the PSU but a bad bearing in the CPU fan. It is good to sell good parts, one finds new friends. The first 250W PSU failed in the manner described by kind gentleman I roasted. Using a multimeter I showed the +12 rail had drooped. Then went to 400W. Now I will go backwards and recheck the various boards offered me.
  #5  
Old December 12th 19, 05:44 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm Why[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Problems rebuilding system

Thanks Paul, I did not find my GA-EP45-DS3L until Dec. 16, 2008. Back then
they recommended ATI. I used WBM to find www.ati.com. That was worse. ATI
was acquired by AMD so MBW was very confused.

One kind gentle whom I may have unfairly roasted suggested I check power. I
checked the ATX power cable and it was not tight, so I tightened it. I can
check +5, +12 and -12 (if present) on a SATA power cable. It is hard, and I
haven't gotten there yet, but it should be good, given a new 400W PSU. This
is the fourth PSU. The 3rd I sold because I falsely diagnosed a sympathetic
(harmonic) vibration. NOT the PSU but a bad bearing in the CPU fan. It is
good to sell good parts, one finds new friends. The first 250W PSU failed in
the manner described by kind gentleman I roasted. Using a multimeter I
showed the +12 rail had drooped. Then went to 400W. Now I will go backwards
and recheck the various boards offered me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was not able to test voltages on SATA power cable, but did so on PCI
connector. Of academic interest: I have an USB/SATA adapter. With 3.5 HDDs
solution to drooping power was to buy new PSU. For 2.5 laptop HHDs my
USB/SATA adapter delivered +5V to power drive. Drill is: put non spinning
drive in freezer. Warm. Then use USB/SATA adapter to recover files. Discard
drive. +5V is sufficient power. However this trick does not work with SSD
drives. Requirement of +12V may be security measure. Hence: 1. this is one
more example of hardware specific hardware and 2. this is a reason I need to
make my new build work.

PCI voltages: Only +5V is present . I was able to find +5V and COM on some
pins shared on side A and B. Using probes on two PCI slots, I confirmed +5V.
First it peaks and then falls back, consistent with smart power management.
I may be able to confirm +5V on an old Fax/modem adapter but that would
require solder leads onto board. Useless idea.

Gigabyte does not make video adapters but does recommend ATI, now AMD. I
found that in 2008, ATI released ATI Wonder in a decades long series. In
2008 ATI still supported AGP. ATI Wonder evolved through CGA, MGA and VGA
for IBM compatible PCs. Apple is different. EVGA is now current. In 2008,
ATI even offered an ATI Wonder VGA with composite video for TV. Long ago I
may have owned an ATI Wonder, they were common.

Google search revealed such prices through the roof. Why would a low tech,
decrepit adapter appreciate in value? Supply and demand and hardware
specific hardware. There are many people trying to rescue old
hardware.Plug-n-Play only works in Microsoft Windows.

My task now is to fund a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter nearby and not to
pay hundred$ of dollars.

Ideas? eBay and Amazon are clip joints. Does any reader of this newsgroup
have a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter?

Thanks.


  #6  
Old December 12th 19, 07:23 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Problems rebuilding system

Norm Why wrote:
Thanks Paul, I did not find my GA-EP45-DS3L until Dec. 16, 2008. Back then
they recommended ATI. I used WBM to find www.ati.com. That was worse. ATI
was acquired by AMD so MBW was very confused.

One kind gentle whom I may have unfairly roasted suggested I check power. I
checked the ATX power cable and it was not tight, so I tightened it. I can
check +5, +12 and -12 (if present) on a SATA power cable. It is hard, and I
haven't gotten there yet, but it should be good, given a new 400W PSU. This
is the fourth PSU. The 3rd I sold because I falsely diagnosed a sympathetic
(harmonic) vibration. NOT the PSU but a bad bearing in the CPU fan. It is
good to sell good parts, one finds new friends. The first 250W PSU failed in
the manner described by kind gentleman I roasted. Using a multimeter I
showed the +12 rail had drooped. Then went to 400W. Now I will go backwards
and recheck the various boards offered me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was not able to test voltages on SATA power cable, but did so on PCI
connector. Of academic interest: I have an USB/SATA adapter. With 3.5 HDDs
solution to drooping power was to buy new PSU. For 2.5 laptop HHDs my
USB/SATA adapter delivered +5V to power drive. Drill is: put non spinning
drive in freezer. Warm. Then use USB/SATA adapter to recover files. Discard
drive. +5V is sufficient power. However this trick does not work with SSD
drives. Requirement of +12V may be security measure. Hence: 1. this is one
more example of hardware specific hardware and 2. this is a reason I need to
make my new build work.

PCI voltages: Only +5V is present . I was able to find +5V and COM on some
pins shared on side A and B. Using probes on two PCI slots, I confirmed +5V.
First it peaks and then falls back, consistent with smart power management.
I may be able to confirm +5V on an old Fax/modem adapter but that would
require solder leads onto board. Useless idea.

Gigabyte does not make video adapters but does recommend ATI, now AMD. I
found that in 2008, ATI released ATI Wonder in a decades long series. In
2008 ATI still supported AGP. ATI Wonder evolved through CGA, MGA and VGA
for IBM compatible PCs. Apple is different. EVGA is now current. In 2008,
ATI even offered an ATI Wonder VGA with composite video for TV. Long ago I
may have owned an ATI Wonder, they were common.

Google search revealed such prices through the roof. Why would a low tech,
decrepit adapter appreciate in value? Supply and demand and hardware
specific hardware. There are many people trying to rescue old
hardware.Plug-n-Play only works in Microsoft Windows.

My task now is to fund a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter nearby and not to
pay hundred$ of dollars.

Ideas? eBay and Amazon are clip joints. Does any reader of this newsgroup
have a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter?

Thanks.


The difference between an ATI Wonder and an ATI card,
is the Wonder has a TV tuner. This does not materially
affect the problems you're having. You don't need the
Wonder part to solve a technical problem. Specifying
Wonder just adds to the card price and that's it.

Any old PCI based card would do, if you want to get
video without a hassle. PCI is 33MHz 32 bits wide on
the average desktop, and this is not exactly a high
speed interface. It's about as challenging as
making an IDE ribbon cable work.

AGP slots go up to 8X, and the interface has a
clock and can do eight bus transfers within one
clock tick (of the lower speed clock). There were
all sorts of problems over the years with this.
One USENET poster seems to have had some
first hand engineering experience with AGP,
and only had swear words to offer.

PCI Express is similar, in that like SATA, there
are attempts to be backward compatible, that don't
always work out. PCI Express 2 cards in PCI Express 1.1
motherboards were a problem in a few cases. Some of the
PCI Express 2 cards, the manufacturer offered a
video flash upgrade that would cause the card to
have the interface set at the PCI Express 1.1 rate
instead (so the card would refuse to negotiate
and screw up, and would always use the correct
speed without any assistance). Maybe you could
get a video flash upgrade for the 64KB flash chip
on the 8800GTX. That was somewhere in that era.

Even if you acquired a PCI 6200, that would be
good enough to get a BIOS screen working. Most Windows
OSes would run that screen at 800x600 without a
driver, and Windows 10 could manage 1024x768.

PCI cards "don't need to match era". No need to
aim for the year 2008. A 6200 PCI offers PCI without
bridge chips. An HD3450 would offer PCI by bridging
PCI Express to PCI with a separate chip. And a
card which delivered an AGP connector to the motherboard,
it would use a bridge chip like ATI Rialto to convert
from PCI Express (on the GPU) to AGP (at the motherboard
connector). Those are some examples of how
it's done. Today, you could take practically
any PCI Express card, and with a good bridge
chip, run it in a PCI slot by using a PCI
to PCI Express bridge card.

That being said, the market doesn't have much to offer
in the way of PCI video cards. Even though bridging
new kit is easy. There's a lot of used cards on
Newegg for $50, but that's a bit too high. For that
price, you would expect a new card.

This is for situations where you have a low profile
card you'd like to use. The problem with this card,
is the end away from us in the picture, needs
the end of the connector sawn off (to allow the usage
of x1, x4, x8, x16 cards in the adapter). This
one uses a *closed* x1 connector. The second link shows
the kind of connector Startech *should* have used.

https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-...82E16815158190

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...d_IMG_1820.JPG

Now, this adapter plugs into the previous adapter,
giving us overall, a PCI Express x16 to PCI adapter.
It solves the closed x1 connector problem.
The card is passive, just a slab of FR4. There is
no mechanical support to speak of. The box contents
don't show a "stubby" faceplace metal piece to be
affixed to the FR4 drill holes.

https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-...82E16815158223

So again, a swing and a miss. I'm sure with a little
shopping, a better adapter is out there. Just a matter
of a crappy Google search coughing the thing up.

If I needed a PCI video card today, I have one surplus
place I could try that has "old new stock". I got my
IDE DVD writer there. Other than that, I've have to
go to the recyclers and get one.

Paul
  #7  
Old December 13th 19, 02:26 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm Why[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Problems rebuilding system

Thanks Paul, I did not find my GA-EP45-DS3L until Dec. 16, 2008. Back then
they recommended ATI. I used WBM to find www.ati.com. That was worse. ATI
was acquired by AMD so MBW was very confused.

One kind gentleman whom I may have unfairly roasted suggested I check power. I
checked the ATX power cable and it was not tight, so I tightened it. I can
check +5, +12 and -12 (if present) on a SATA power cable. It is hard, and I
haven't gotten there yet, but it should be good, given a new 400W PSU. This
is the fourth PSU. The 3rd I sold because I falsely diagnosed a sympathetic
(harmonic) vibration. NOT the PSU but a bad bearing in the CPU fan. It is
good to sell good parts, one finds new friends. The first 250W PSU failed in
the manner described by kind gentleman I roasted. Using a multimeter I
showed the +12 rail had drooped. Then went to 400W. Now I will go backwards
and recheck the various boards offered me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was not able to test voltages on SATA power cable, but did so on PCI
connector. Of academic interest: I have an USB/SATA adapter. With 3.5 HDDs
solution to drooping power was to buy new PSU. For 2.5 laptop HHDs my
USB/SATA adapter delivered +5V to power drive. Drill is: put non spinning
drive in freezer. Warm. Then use USB/SATA adapter to recover files. Discard
drive. +5V is sufficient power. However this trick does not work with SSD
drives. Requirement of +12V may be security measure. Hence: 1. this is one
more example of hardware specific hardware and 2. this is a reason I need to
make my new build work.

PCI voltages: Only +5V is present . I was able to find +5V and COM on some
pins shared on side A and B. Using probes on two PCI slots, I confirmed +5V.
First it peaks and then falls back, consistent with smart power management.
I may be able to confirm +5V on an old Fax/modem adapter but that would
require solder leads onto board. Useless idea.

Gigabyte does not make video adapters but does recommend ATI, now AMD. I
found that in 2008, ATI released ATI Wonder in a decades long series. In
2008 ATI still supported AGP. ATI Wonder evolved through CGA, MGA and VGA
for IBM compatible PCs. Apple is different. EVGA is now current. In 2008,
ATI even offered an ATI Wonder VGA with composite video for TV. Long ago I
may have owned an ATI Wonder, they were common.

Google search revealed such prices through the roof. Why would a low tech,
decrepit adapter appreciate in value? Supply and demand and hardware
specific hardware. There are many people trying to rescue old
hardware.Plug-n-Play only works in Microsoft Windows.

My task now is to fund a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter nearby and not to
pay hundred$ of dollars.

Ideas? eBay and Amazon are clip joints. Does any reader of this newsgroup
have a 2008 ATI Wonder PCI VGA adapter?

Thanks.


The difference between an ATI Wonder and an ATI card,
is the Wonder has a TV tuner. This does not materially
affect the problems you're having. You don't need the
Wonder part to solve a technical problem. Specifying
Wonder just adds to the card price and that's it.

Any old PCI based card would do, if you want to get
video without a hassle. PCI is 33MHz 32 bits wide on
the average desktop, and this is not exactly a high
speed interface. It's about as challenging as
making an IDE ribbon cable work.

AGP slots go up to 8X, and the interface has a
clock and can do eight bus transfers within one
clock tick (of the lower speed clock). There were
all sorts of problems over the years with this.
One USENET poster seems to have had some
first hand engineering experience with AGP,
and only had swear words to offer.

PCI Express is similar, in that like SATA, there
are attempts to be backward compatible, that don't
always work out. PCI Express 2 cards in PCI Express 1.1
motherboards were a problem in a few cases. Some of the
PCI Express 2 cards, the manufacturer offered a
video flash upgrade that would cause the card to
have the interface set at the PCI Express 1.1 rate
instead (so the card would refuse to negotiate
and screw up, and would always use the correct
speed without any assistance). Maybe you could
get a video flash upgrade for the 64KB flash chip
on the 8800GTX. That was somewhere in that era.

Even if you acquired a PCI 6200, that would be
good enough to get a BIOS screen working. Most Windows
OSes would run that screen at 800x600 without a
driver, and Windows 10 could manage 1024x768.

PCI cards "don't need to match era". No need to
aim for the year 2008. A 6200 PCI offers PCI without
bridge chips. An HD3450 would offer PCI by bridging
PCI Express to PCI with a separate chip. And a
card which delivered an AGP connector to the motherboard,
it would use a bridge chip like ATI Rialto to convert
from PCI Express (on the GPU) to AGP (at the motherboard
connector). Those are some examples of how
it's done. Today, you could take practically
any PCI Express card, and with a good bridge
chip, run it in a PCI slot by using a PCI
to PCI Express bridge card.

That being said, the market doesn't have much to offer
in the way of PCI video cards. Even though bridging
new kit is easy. There's a lot of used cards on
Newegg for $50, but that's a bit too high. For that
price, you would expect a new card.

This is for situations where you have a low profile
card you'd like to use. The problem with this card,
is the end away from us in the picture, needs
the end of the connector sawn off (to allow the usage
of x1, x4, x8, x16 cards in the adapter). This
one uses a *closed* x1 connector. The second link shows
the kind of connector Startech *should* have used.

https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-...82E16815158190

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...d_IMG_1820.JPG

Now, this adapter plugs into the previous adapter,
giving us overall, a PCI Express x16 to PCI adapter.
It solves the closed x1 connector problem.
The card is passive, just a slab of FR4. There is
no mechanical support to speak of. The box contents
don't show a "stubby" faceplace metal piece to be
affixed to the FR4 drill holes.

https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-...82E16815158223

So again, a swing and a miss. I'm sure with a little
shopping, a better adapter is out there. Just a matter
of a crappy Google search coughing the thing up.

If I needed a PCI video card today, I have one surplus
place I could try that has "old new stock". I got my
IDE DVD writer there. Other than that, I've have to
go to the recyclers and get one.

Paul


Thanks again Paul. After completing all my legal and medical business today I returned to search the web. It should be noted that it is best to find part numbers to distinguish different features. For "ATI Wonder" here are two:
MPN: 1090005910
100-703271
If I had a complete list it would be long and modify your view. However, 'search and ye shall find'. I found a museum at YorkU:

http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/collections/ATI/ATI.htm

Here is a bigger list of 12 ATI cards from that era:

ATI VIP graphics card (1988)
ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, v4-01 (1989)
ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, V60M-1.03 (1990)
ATI VGA WONDER+ graphics card (1990)
ATI 2400etc/e modem (1990)
ATI 28300 SA Graphics Adapter (1991)
ATI ATi Graphics Vantage card (1991)
VGAWonder XL24, ver. 4.1, ATI (1992)
ATI 14.4I/R.1.625 board (1993)
ATI VGAWONDER GT graphics card (1993)
ATI All-in-Wonder prototype, PCI bus, multimedia board (1994?)
ATI PCI MARCH64 video card (1996)

The one species of cards that we had fixated on is not there but WONDER+ (1990) is. I am going to write to the CompSci YorkU Prof for his help.

Merry Christmas


  #8  
Old December 13th 19, 03:49 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Problems rebuilding system

Norm Why wrote:

Thanks again Paul. After completing all my legal and medical business today I returned to search the web. It should be noted that it is best to find part numbers to distinguish different features. For "ATI Wonder" here are two:
MPN: 1090005910
100-703271
If I had a complete list it would be long and modify your view. However, 'search and ye shall find'. I found a museum at YorkU:

http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/collections/ATI/ATI.htm

Here is a bigger list of 12 ATI cards from that era:

ATI VIP graphics card (1988)
ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, v4-01 (1989)
ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, V60M-1.03 (1990)
ATI VGA WONDER+ graphics card (1990)
ATI 2400etc/e modem (1990)
ATI 28300 SA Graphics Adapter (1991)
ATI ATi Graphics Vantage card (1991)
VGAWonder XL24, ver. 4.1, ATI (1992)
ATI 14.4I/R.1.625 board (1993)
ATI VGAWONDER GT graphics card (1993)
ATI All-in-Wonder prototype, PCI bus, multimedia board (1994?)
ATI PCI MARCH64 video card (1996)

The one species of cards that we had fixated on is not there but WONDER+ (1990) is. I am going to write to the CompSci YorkU Prof for his help.

Merry Christmas


The All-In-Wonder are the ones with TV Tuners onboard.
That stopped in the year 2008 or so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-in-Wonder

Apparently ATI Wonder is just a flavor of video card marketing.

ATI Theater chips came after 2008, and were sold as
separate cards. Diamond Multimedia had an ATI Theater
capture card, for example. In this example, you can
just barely see the ATI branding on it. This is a
TV tuner capture card. With a TV and an FM 75 ohm input.

https://images.hothardware.com/stati...em720/card.jpg

ATI stopped this business, because the software development
was costing too much. That's why they made the TV tuner card companies
provide their own capture software (and much of that
capture software sucked). This kinda crushed the business
and made it unattractive.

After that ATI/AMD stuck with video card functions, to make a buck.
They got out of that distracting business and concentrated
on their strengths.

*******

Try to concentrate on the bus compatibility issue here.
I don't think the words "All-In-Wonder" help in that regard.

I don't want to see you wasting money on garbage.
There should at least be a reasonable plan for what
any item like this, hopes to achieve.

The purpose of finding a PCI video card, is just so
you can see the screen. This assumes the rest of the
motherboard/RAM/CPU are working.

This is why I want you do those damn beep tests first!
**** the video card. You need to test that mobo/CPU
work with no RAM and no video in place. Add RAM back,
observe that "missing video" beep happens. These
are basic tests to prevent you from wasting your
time on acquiring a video card.

If the appropriate beeps come out of the computer SPKR,
*then* you can settle in searching for some sort of
magical video card.

If the machine won't beep... a video card will *not* help.

Asus made one motherboard, where due to some BIOS issues,
the SPKR will not beep at all. I'm not aware of any
Gigabyte boards suffering from this sort of issue.
They wouldn't react the way Asus did at the time.

Various "Port 80 POST cards" exist. Some enthusiast motherboards
have this two digit display right on the motherboard, as an
aid to debugging. If you already own one of these, you could
use it. I do not recommend buying these, as the benefits
they product are not great enough to justify the purchase
price. The value in these is "Go/No Go". If the display
shows a value other than 0xFF or 0x00 or the display
goes blank (when the system starts to boot), fine.
The status LEDs that indicate system power rails are
pretty to look at (one poster was able to detect
a power failure by looking at the four LEDs). But
the values on the digits are almost worthless in
figuring out root causes of motherboard failures.
Consequently I don't recommend these for general usage.
The PC SPKR by comparison, is a cheap cheap way to test.
It's a kind of GO/No Go test too. But you don't have to
buy anything (as long as the computer case has the standard
SPKR and two wire cable with the 1x4 connector on the end).

https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/p/postcard.jpg

Paul
  #9  
Old December 13th 19, 10:23 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm Why[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Problems rebuilding system

Thanks again Paul. After completing all my legal and medical business
today I returned to search the web. It should be noted that it is best to
find part numbers to distinguish different features. For "ATI Wonder"
here are two:
MPN: 1090005910
100-703271
If I had a complete list it would be long and modify your view. However,
'search and ye shall find'. I found a museum at YorkU:

http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/collections/ATI/ATI.htm

Here is a bigger list of 12 ATI cards from that era:

ATI VIP graphics card (1988)
ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, v4-01 (1989)
ATI VGA 1024 graphics card, V60M-1.03 (1990)
ATI VGA WONDER+ graphics card (1990)
ATI 2400etc/e modem (1990)
ATI 28300 SA Graphics Adapter (1991)
ATI ATi Graphics Vantage card (1991)
VGAWonder XL24, ver. 4.1, ATI (1992)
ATI 14.4I/R.1.625 board (1993)
ATI VGAWONDER GT graphics card (1993)
ATI All-in-Wonder prototype, PCI bus, multimedia board (1994?)
ATI PCI MARCH64 video card (1996)

The one species of cards that we had fixated on is not there but WONDER+
(1990) is. I am going to write to the CompSci YorkU Prof for his help.

Merry Christmas


The All-In-Wonder are the ones with TV Tuners onboard.
That stopped in the year 2008 or so.


Yes. I owned an ATI All-In-Wonder. It turned my PC monitor into a TV. In the
Apple era folks turned their TV into a monitor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-in-Wonder

Apparently ATI Wonder is just a flavor of video card marketing.


Their are different flavors of ATI Wonder. You need to distinguish by part
number. This is a general rule. Only with part numbers can with distiguish
specs of similar products. Names like 'ATI Wonder' are just for marketing.
From WBM in late 2008, when my GA-EP45-DR3LR MOBO was found Gigabyte ATI
Wonder was adfvertised by Gigabyte. People resell old parts. ATI Wonder is
no where to be found. Strange, what does that tell you. Gigabyte is not the
only MOBO maker. If hardware specific hardware was the industry norm, that
would tell you someting about resale market in subsequent decades.

ATI Theater chips came after 2008, and were sold as
separate cards. Diamond Multimedia had an ATI Theater
capture card, for example. In this example, you can
just barely see the ATI branding on it. This is a
TV tuner capture card. With a TV and an FM 75 ohm input.

https://images.hothardware.com/stati...em720/card.jpg

ATI stopped this business, because the software development
was costing too much. That's why they made the TV tuner card companies
provide their own capture software (and much of that
capture software sucked). This kinda crushed the business
and made it unattractive.

After that ATI/AMD stuck with video card functions, to make a buck.
They got out of that distracting business and concentrated
on their strengths.

*******

Try to concentrate on the bus compatibility issue here.
I don't think the words "All-In-Wonder" help in that regard.

I don't want to see you wasting money on garbage.
There should at least be a reasonable plan for what
any item like this, hopes to achieve.

The purpose of finding a PCI video card, is just so
you can see the screen. This assumes the rest of the
motherboard/RAM/CPU are working.

This is why I want you do those damn beep tests first!
**** the video card. You need to test that mobo/CPU
work with no RAM and no video in place. Add RAM back,
observe that "missing video" beep happens. These
are basic tests to prevent you from wasting your
time on acquiring a video card.


Thanks. I'll try that. But the beeper is in the MX-330-X chassis. I need to
check that electrically first so as to not get a false diagnosis. When I did
not see the POWER LED, I needed to switch the polarity. The front panel
connectors are tiny. Child size finger would help. I have not yet seen disc
activity LED, since not yet booted. When booted and not seen, I'll need to
switch the polarity. The + / - marks on leads are tiny. The colored LED's on
the MOBO near RAM say RAM is good and recognized.

If the appropriate beeps come out of the computer SPKR,
*then* you can settle in searching for some sort of
magical video card.

If the machine won't beep... a video card will *not* help.

Asus made one motherboard, where due to some BIOS issues,
the SPKR will not beep at all. I'm not aware of any
Gigabyte boards suffering from this sort of issue.
They wouldn't react the way Asus did at the time.

Various "Port 80 POST cards" exist. Some enthusiast motherboards
have this two digit display right on the motherboard, as an
aid to debugging. If you already own one of these, you could
use it. I do not recommend buying these, as the benefits
they product are not great enough to justify the purchase
price. The value in these is "Go/No Go". If the display
shows a value other than 0xFF or 0x00 or the display
goes blank (when the system starts to boot), fine.
The status LEDs that indicate system power rails are
pretty to look at (one poster was able to detect
a power failure by looking at the four LEDs). But
the values on the digits are almost worthless in
figuring out root causes of motherboard failures.
Consequently I don't recommend these for general usage.
The PC SPKR by comparison, is a cheap cheap way to test.
It's a kind of GO/No Go test too. But you don't have to
buy anything (as long as the computer case has the standard
SPKR and two wire cable with the 1x4 connector on the end).

https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/p/postcard.jpg

Paul


Thanks for the fine diagnostic advice. YorkU ComSci/EE has bad telecom. They
are closed to the outside world. I have tried an ATI Rage card. A local has
offered an ATI Radeon VGA card that I have not tried yet. I think I owned
one once. But I recycle on Craigslist and don't have a box of old parts.

From manual, here are the beep codes:

Q: What do the beeps emitted during the POST mean?
A: The following Award BIOS beep code descriptions may help you identify
possible computer problems.
(For reference only.)
1 short: System boots successfully
2 short: CMOS setting error
1 long, 1 short: Memory or motherboard error
1 long, 2 short: Monitor or graphics card error
1 long, 3 short: Keyboard error
1 long, 9 short: BIOS ROM error
Continuous long beeps: Graphics card not inserted properly
Continuous short beeps: Power error

Since I have not heard any beeps when the table says I should, that would
imply a problem with the front panel connecter. I'll be back after Xmas
duties.



  #10  
Old December 14th 19, 12:11 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Problems rebuilding system

Norm Why wrote:

From manual, here are the beep codes:

Q: What do the beeps emitted during the POST mean?
A: The following Award BIOS beep code descriptions may help you identify
possible computer problems.
(For reference only.)
1 short: System boots successfully
2 short: CMOS setting error
1 long, 1 short: Memory or motherboard error
1 long, 2 short: Monitor or graphics card error
1 long, 3 short: Keyboard error
1 long, 9 short: BIOS ROM error
Continuous long beeps: Graphics card not inserted properly
Continuous short beeps: Power error

Since I have not heard any beeps when the table says I should, that would
imply a problem with the front panel connecter. I'll be back after Xmas
duties.


It requires a working motherboard+CPU combo.
Then you'll get beep codes on SPKR.

SPKR is not polarized. Just make sure the span
is correct for the connector (some OEM cases might
have a 1x2 connector, while some retail motherboards
use a 1x4 pattern). You can use connector strips and
lift the tab on each, to shift wires within shells
and make the correct connector for the job.

The SPKR body should be electrically isolated from
the two wire leads. The wire leads go to the speaker
coil, and the coil moves in and out with the cone.
Even so, a few computer cases here use plastic
mounts for SPKR.

The front panel header is reasonably bulletproof.

RESET and POWER are SPST momentary contact switches, normally open.
You push the button, and the switch closes for a moment.

The LEDs are polarized as you say. The LED is rated
for 5V PIV (Peak Inverse Volts) so cannot be harmed
by reversing the leads. Each driving circuit has
a series resistor to limit current flow. If they don't
light, you reverse the 1x2 connector and try again.

Normally the spacing and span of various signal
assignments on the Front Panel connector, avoids
the possibility of shorting two power pins placed
next to one another. If there is a SPKR section
of a Front Panel connector, the "hot" end should
not be near a GND pin. The ones I've looked at,
generally have fairly safe signal assignments.
While there are connectors on a computer that get
crushed and you cannot visually check them,
the Front Panel connector isn't one of the ones
where people habitually do bad things. I don't
think I've had any reports of anyone managing to
start a fire using nothing but a Front Panel header
problem :-) (If you pinch the "hot" wire of SPKR
between the computer case door and the computer
case, which is GND, then the wire will get smoked.
And that has happened. Normally those wires aren't
sitting near the door.)

You can get a "no beep" condition, by using a
reset button crushed in the ON position. Usually
OEM computer cases are the ones with sufficiently
cheesy buttons on the front of the computer, to
make incidents like this possible. I have one
computer here, where the buttons are such,
I know that some day that's how those buttons
will fail. The buttons speak of cheapness.

Paul
 




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