Old Stock Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor Self-healing

This post is a continuation of thread:
"Speaker For PC Internal BIOS Computer Motherboard Mini Onboard Case
Buzzer Board Beep Alarm NEW."

The new title above provides searchable entries.

The service life of electrolytic capacitors is 17 years

Capacitor 'leakage' had got so bad, the system shut down immediately.
After
much fiddling, the beep speaker is now giving beep codes, 'Continuous
short
beeps: Power error'. This is progress. 'Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor
Self-healing' means maintaining +5 voltage. My NEW PSU does that. I see
the
PS/2 mouse glows red.

After 24 hours 'self-healing', it is time to worry about bad caps. One
near
the PCIe graphics slot is anomalous. Instead of being bowed-out, its
head
has a bowed-in dimple, like it expanded and then contracted. It does not
feel hot to the touch, but touch reveals it is loose. Maybe Electrolytic
Capacitor leakage was so great it melted the solder? Since it looks bad,
maybe it can be removed and tested. What are the consequences? I can
work
without PCIe graphics for a while, but I will need it later.



My recollection is that this re-forming of old electrolytics must be done
very carefully if it is to be successful. The old-school method was to
connect the cap to a variable power supply with a suitable current
limiting resistor and to slowly and either smoothly or in small
increments increase the voltage to the rated value. This was to take
place over at least a half hour IIRC. I did it a few times in the past
and it was generally successful. I see no way that it could be easily
carried out on a MB with scores (hundreds?) of caps of various voltages.

Sometimes it is necessary to cut one's losses and pitch old hardware as
not worth the time and money to get it working. I found an early-90s
server-class EISA server MB in my storeroom cleaning and actually thought
about trying to get it working but pretty quickly gave up on the idea.
Just not worth the effort although it might make a good display in a
computer history museum.

Thanks John,

My GA-EP45-DS3L is virgin.

The GA-EP45-DS3L is still a hot item in the marketplace:

(2019)
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard...DS3L-rev-10#ov

(2020)
https://www.ebay.com/p/74075851

(out of stock)
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813128345

I have installed it in a new COUGAR MX330 Gaming PC Case. All components
of this build are new. The problem seems to be that BIOS V1.0 (2008) is
not comfortable with specs on new parts. If I can get it booted with best
old parts, then I can upgrade BIOS and tweak settings. New Gigabyte device
drivers are on a DVD-RW. Booting up the Internet on a new build is a
nightmare. Every piece of old OS & application software wants to be
upgraded at once. Fortunately I have a WiFi AP that is super slow. Only
after things have settled down is it safe to use a Fast WiFi AP.

The work has only begun. And I didn't even mention the joy of upgrading
old to new, CPU & RAM etc. The easy route is Used not 'Virgin'.

Here is a recent Youtube video about Louis Rossmann working on an Apple
board, that explores similar concepts:

"What is an ACTIVE short and how does it differ from a NORMAL short circuit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7RwlTbHTQ&t=920s

Louis Rossmann

Published on Dec 26, 2019"

///

The crucial issue is 'what component gets hot?'

[massive snippage]
Thanks John,

My GA-EP45-DS3L is virgin.

The GA-EP45-DS3L is still a hot item in the marketplace:

(2019)
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard...DS3L-rev-10#ov

(2020)
https://www.ebay.com/p/74075851

(out of stock)
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813128345

I have installed it in a new COUGAR MX330 Gaming PC Case. All components
of this build are new. The problem seems to be that BIOS V1.0 (2008) is
not comfortable with specs on new parts. If I can get it booted with best
old parts, then I can upgrade BIOS and tweak settings. New Gigabyte
device drivers are on a DVD-RW. Booting up the Internet on a new build is
a nightmare. Every piece of old OS & application software wants to be
upgraded at once. Fortunately I have a WiFi AP that is super slow. Only
after things have settled down is it safe to use a Fast WiFi AP.

The work has only begun. And I didn't even mention the joy of upgrading
old to new, CPU & RAM etc. The easy route is Used not 'Virgin'.

Here is a recent Youtube video about Louis Rossmann working on an Apple
board, that explores similar concepts:

"What is an ACTIVE short and how does it differ from a NORMAL short
circuit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX7RwlTbHTQ&t=920s

Louis Rossmann

Published on Dec 26, 2019"

///

The crucial issue is 'what component gets hot?'

This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my Intel
CPU and cooler:

Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo Explained

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo

by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST

Excerpt:

One of the recent topics permeating through the custom PC space recently has
been about power draw. Intel's latest eight-core processors are still rated
at a TDP of 95W, and yet users are seeing power consumption north of
150-180W, which doesn't make much sense. In this guide, we want to give you
a proper understanding why this is the case, and why it gives us reviewers
such a headache.

What is TDP (Thermal Design Power)?
With every processor, Intel guarantees a specific frequency at a specific
power, often with a particular grade of cooler in mind. Most people equate a
chip's TDP rating directly to its maximum power draw, given that the heat
energy that needs to be dissipated from the processor is equal to the power
consumed in doing calculations. Normally, the TDP rating is that specific
power.

But TDP, in its strictest sense, relates to the ability of the cooler to
dissipate heat. TDP is the minimum capacity of the CPU cooler required to
get that guaranteed level of performance. Some energy dissipation also
occurs through the socket and motherboard, which means that technically the
cooler rating can be lower than the TDP, but in most circles TDP and power
consumption are used to mean the same thing: how much power a CPU draws
under load.

On 29/12/2019 11:01 AM, Norm Why wrote:
[massive snippage]
This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my Intel
CPU and cooler:

It doesn't explore specifics of 'your' CPU and cooler. There is no Q9650 mentioned on that page, in
fact no 'core' CPUs at all. It's about CPUs that are generations newer than your coal-fired museum
piece.

Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo Explained

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo

Q9650 doesn't have turbo mode. Even the QX9650 that I junked years ago didn't have turbo mode
(though it would run at 4 GHz just fine).

by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST

There's a clue above in the date. It's a full decade after your CPU was cutting edge. A decade is a
very long time in IT.

Excerpt:
snipped

FYI I don't run the latest and greatest or spend a fortune on hardware any more. MY current rug is
an ex-lease Dell Optiplex mini-tower with a i7-4790 that came with 16 GB RAM and a 500GB HDD ~18
months ago that cost me $300. Over the next year as I could afford it I fitted a new 600W PSU,
upgraded to 32 GB RAM (it had two free slots), a 250 GB SSD and put a second-hand GTX 960 in it and
it flies. It's even still covered by Dell's 5 year extended warranty, I just transferred it into my
name on-line.

CPU evolution has slowed considerably in the last 5 years so my i7 is still fairly 'contemporary'.
In the previous 5 years however they were still making great leaps and bounds in development. I
leave my PC on all day and I noticed that when I swapped from the QX9650 rig (which by then was
running at 3.0 GHz) to this one my power consumption dropped considerably, enough to show up on my
monthly power bills. When I tested the PCs against each other I found it had halved at idle and was
much less while gaming.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

I presume you also saw Louis Rossmann remove a chip from an Apple board to
make it work. I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of capacitor
wires. Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor.
Unlike you, dinosaurs know how to handle a soldering iron.


"~misfit~" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2019 11:01 AM, Norm Why wrote:
[massive snippage]
This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my
Intel
CPU and cooler:

It doesn't explore specifics of 'your' CPU and cooler. There is no Q9650
mentioned on that page, in fact no 'core' CPUs at all. It's about CPUs
that are generations newer than your coal-fired museum piece.

Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo
Explained

Read the Title and look at the picture. My 95W Intel cooler fan is pictured.
Who gives a F*k about the LGA count? Power is power. 4 Core Intel CPU is
covered. PL1 (power level 1), PL2 (power level 2), and T (or tau) are
relevant electrical engineering for my Q9650 and Paul's suggested E4700.
Intel is Intel, for Xst sake.


https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo

Q9650 doesn't have turbo mode. Even the QX9650 that I junked years ago
didn't have turbo mode (though it would run at 4 GHz just fine).

Who gives a sh*t about your dinky language? Q9650 runs at numerous clock
speeds. You have confused words for reality and instrument measurements.


by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST

There's a clue above in the date. It's a full decade after your CPU was
cutting edge. A decade is a very long time in IT.

Exactly!!!!!! In my industry this is known as current wisdom.

Excerpt:
snipped

FYI I don't run the latest and greatest or spend a fortune on hardware any
more. MY current rug is an ex-lease Dell Optiplex mini-tower with a
i7-4790 that came with 16 GB RAM and a 500GB HDD ~18 months ago that cost
me $300. Over the next year as I could afford it I fitted a new 600W PSU,
upgraded to 32 GB RAM (it had two free slots), a 250 GB SSD and put a
second-hand GTX 960 in it and it flies. It's even still covered by Dell's
5 year extended warranty, I just transferred it into my name on-line.

You are the greatest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CPU evolution has slowed considerably in the last 5 years so my i7 is
still fairly 'contemporary'. In the previous 5 years however they were
still making great leaps and bounds in development. I leave my PC on all
day and I noticed that when I swapped from the QX9650 rig (which by then
was running at 3.0 GHz) to this one my power consumption dropped
considerably, enough to show up on my monthly power bills. When I tested
the PCs against each other I found it had halved at idle and was much less
while gaming.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed
self-promoting software.

Norm Why wrote:
I presume you also saw Louis Rossmann remove a chip from an Apple board to
make it work. I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of capacitor
wires. Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor.
Unlike you, dinosaurs know how to handle a soldering iron.


Dinosaurs are also careful what they wish for.

If that cap is an interference fit, it will be
a bitch to get out. You can cut the cap in two,
but you almost need mechanical assist to do that.
(The power of vice grips, the cutting blade of
diagonal cutters.) I know, because I tested this
method too :-( Then when the two wires are all that's
left of the capacitor, you can heat the fillet and
pull the wire out. But I've had the fillet pull right out
too, making a hell of a mess to clean up (jumper
wire to restore the electrical connection). Computer
motherboards are of poor quality (our boards at work,
you'd never pull a fillet right out).

Even with the right equipment, I've had trouble with
these. Part of the reason for testing, was to see
if the right equipment was magical or not. It's not.
The job was no different with the vacuum station,
than with a blue colored solder pull-it.

https://www.globalindustrial.ca/p/me...soldering-pump

It the leads are an interference fit, then one
job is "pulling the wire" and making sure there
is nothing on the end of the wire that will
snag as it is pulled through. The end of the wire
should not have diagonal pliers to cut it, but
make a clean cut with the cutter on your wire
stripper.

These make a clean cut on the end of a wire or leg,
but they're hard to get close to the work to do that.
The clean cut is made, using the cutting surface
closest to the hinge point. These strip 22-30ga
solid wire, and I used these for lots and lots of
wirewrap connections.

https://images.datacomtools.com/imag...ers/45-120.jpg

Crap like this is what you get at retail, and these
make an awful mess when you need a burr-free cut.
Not recommended. It has something to do with the
fit of the two scissor pieces, and whether there's
enough of a gap to make a sloppy cut. You've probably
seen the yellow ones at the hardware store that look
like this. Again, not recommended (except when you
have no choice of course, like you're in the field
and have no tools and it's all you can get).

https://images.datacomtools.com/imag...ers/45-101.jpg

Diagonal cutters malform the end of the wire, and
diagonal cutters are good for "freeing" the work,
but a separate cleanup cut with the good tools,
removes the mess the diagonal cutter made. It's the
shape of the cutting blades, that causes the problem.
Thus, this is "a blunt tool for decapitation".

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._AC_SS350_.jpg

You can pull the wire in either direction (which ever
direction results in the wire coming out). Then, once
the wire is free and clear, you can use solder wick
or your $9 solder pump, to remove the excess solder before
fitting a new cap.

I'm not sure how you've correctly decided that cap
is the defective one, unless you've already snapped
one of the legs on it or something.

Paul

On 12/29/2019 3:00 PM, Paul wrote:
If that cap is an interference fit, it will be
a bitch to get out. You can cut the cap in two,
but you almost need mechanical assist to do that.
(The power of vice grips, the cutting blade of
diagonal cutters.) I know, because I tested this
method too :-( Then when the two wires are all that's
left of the capacitor, you can heat the fillet and

So true. There are many sorts of components and methods of installation
that demand extreme measures. I use Logitech trackballs and use them
_heavily_ but this exposes a shortcoming in the switches they use for the
left and right buttons. I'm pretty good at repairs and have most of the
necessary tools but with these tiny microswitches the only solution is to
crush them, unsolder the remaining pins, clean the holes with a sucker and
wooden toothpick and then finally get around to installing the new one. I'm
getting pretty good at it though and always keep a trackball in reserve.

On 30/12/2019 8:22 AM, Norm Why wrote:
I presume you also saw Louis Rossmann remove a chip from an Apple board to
make it work. I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of capacitor
wires. Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor.
Unlike you, dinosaurs know how to handle a soldering iron.

How do you know about me? Other than knowing I've watched a few Rossman videos you couldn't be
further from the truth.

FYI I have at least four soldering irons (two of which are temperature controlled) including the
hot-air rework station on my workbench and I know how to use them all. I also have solder paste for
SMD work, rolls of different diameter flux core solder including a couple flavours of lead-free and
several types of flux in several types of applicators.

I have also re-capped multiple mobos in the past but gave that up as a waste of time around
2006-ish era boards when most went to interference fit leads and faulty caps became less common.

"~misfit~" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2019 11:01 AM, Norm Why wrote:
[massive snippage]
This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my
Intel
CPU and cooler:

It doesn't explore specifics of 'your' CPU and cooler. There is no Q9650
mentioned on that page, in fact no 'core' CPUs at all. It's about CPUs
that are generations newer than your coal-fired museum piece.

Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo
Explained

Read the Title and look at the picture. My 95W Intel cooler fan is pictured.

Because cooler fans are cutting-edge tech and what this is all about?

Who gives a F*k about the LGA count? Power is power. 4 Core Intel CPU is
covered. PL1 (power level 1), PL2 (power level 2), and T (or tau) are
relevant electrical engineering for my Q9650 and Paul's suggested E4700.
Intel is Intel, for Xst sake.

You're wrong. (Which is no big surprise as you often post within minutes of a previous post showing
how often it occurs.)

PL1, PL2 etc, (as discussed in that article) are states that only apply to Intels CPUs that change
their operating frequency on the fly. Yours doesn't, nor would that mobo support it if it did.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo

Q9650 doesn't have turbo mode. Even the QX9650 that I junked years ago
didn't have turbo mode (though it would run at 4 GHz just fine).

Who gives a sh*t about your dinky language? Q9650 runs at numerous clock
speeds. You have confused words for reality and instrument measurements.

So above you tell me to read the title (which includes 'turbo') and now you dismiss language?

Oh and FYI the Q9650 doesn't run at "numerous clock speeds" on the fly like a modern processor. For
instance my i7 varies between 0.8 GHz and 4.0 GHz depending on demand. The Q9560 frequency is set
in BIOS and stays at that speed whether you're transcoding a video or the machine is idling while
you're mowing the lawn.

by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST

There's a clue above in the date. It's a full decade after your CPU was
cutting edge. A decade is a very long time in IT.

Exactly!!!!!! In my industry this is known as current wisdom.

Excerpt:
snipped

FYI I don't run the latest and greatest or spend a fortune on hardware any
more. MY current rug is an ex-lease Dell Optiplex mini-tower with a
i7-4790 that came with 16 GB RAM and a 500GB HDD ~18 months ago that cost
me $300. Over the next year as I could afford it I fitted a new 600W PSU,
upgraded to 32 GB RAM (it had two free slots), a 250 GB SSD and put a
second-hand GTX 960 in it and it flies. It's even still covered by Dell's
5 year extended warranty, I just transferred it into my name on-line.

You are the greatest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I figured you to be a self-important and delusional sarcastic SOB. Thanks for proving me right.

The biggest difference between us is that I likely do far more with PCs than you do and I don't
need to bother Paul multiple times an hour for weeks on end doing it. Paul provides an invaluable
service here, has helped me more than once and it pains me to see him keep trying to help you while
you say 'thanks' then head off on a new tangent instead of following his advice.

Anyone with even a general understanding of psychological principles reading your posts would
realise that you're a lonely shut in so desperate for human interaction that you even reply to
yourself. Do you get a little tingle in your pants every time Paul replies to you? Being validated
by such a knowledgeable and charitable person must really help you to keep deluding yourself into
feeling you're not as insignificant and useless as, deep down you KNOW that you are.

If you knew half as much as you think you do then you wouldn't still be here asking for help months
after first posting about this junk-drawer system.

--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.

I presume you also saw Louis Rossmann remove a chip from an Apple board
to
make it work. I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of
capacitor
wires. Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor.
Unlike you, dinosaurs know how to handle a soldering iron.

How do you know about me? Other than knowing I've watched a few Rossman
videos you couldn't be further from the truth.

FYI I have at least four soldering irons (two of which are temperature
controlled) including the hot-air rework station on my workbench and I
know how to use them all. I also have solder paste for SMD work, rolls of
different diameter flux core solder including a couple flavours of
lead-free and several types of flux in several types of applicators.

I have also re-capped multiple mobos in the past but gave that up as a
waste of time around 2006-ish era boards when most went to interference
fit leads and faulty caps became less common.

"~misfit~" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2019 11:01 AM, Norm Why wrote:
[massive snippage]
This is a recent AnandTech EE web page that explores specifics of my
Intel
CPU and cooler:

It doesn't explore specifics of 'your' CPU and cooler. There is no Q9650
mentioned on that page, in fact no 'core' CPUs at all. It's about CPUs
that are generations newer than your coal-fired museum piece.

Why Intel Processors Draw More Power Than Expected: TDP and Turbo
Explained

Read the Title and look at the picture. My 95W Intel cooler fan is
pictured.

Because cooler fans are cutting-edge tech and what this is all about?

Who gives a F*k about the LGA count? Power is power. 4 Core Intel CPU is
covered. PL1 (power level 1), PL2 (power level 2), and T (or tau) are
relevant electrical engineering for my Q9650 and Paul's suggested E4700.
Intel is Intel, for Xst sake.

You're wrong. (Which is no big surprise as you often post within minutes
of a previous post showing how often it occurs.)

PL1, PL2 etc, (as discussed in that article) are states that only apply to
Intels CPUs that change their operating frequency on the fly. Yours
doesn't, nor would that mobo support it if it did.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13544...cted-tdp-turbo

Q9650 doesn't have turbo mode. Even the QX9650 that I junked years ago
didn't have turbo mode (though it would run at 4 GHz just fine).

Who gives a sh*t about your dinky language? Q9650 runs at numerous clock
speeds. You have confused words for reality and instrument measurements.

So above you tell me to read the title (which includes 'turbo') and now
you dismiss language?

Oh and FYI the Q9650 doesn't run at "numerous clock speeds" on the fly
like a modern processor. For instance my i7 varies between 0.8 GHz and 4.0
GHz depending on demand. The Q9560 frequency is set in BIOS and stays at
that speed whether you're transcoding a video or the machine is idling
while you're mowing the lawn.

by Ian Cutress on November 9, 2018 12:00 PM EST

There's a clue above in the date. It's a full decade after your CPU was
cutting edge. A decade is a very long time in IT.

Exactly!!!!!! In my industry this is known as current wisdom.

Excerpt:
snipped

FYI I don't run the latest and greatest or spend a fortune on hardware
any
more. MY current rug is an ex-lease Dell Optiplex mini-tower with a
i7-4790 that came with 16 GB RAM and a 500GB HDD ~18 months ago that
cost
me $300. Over the next year as I could afford it I fitted a new 600W
PSU,
upgraded to 32 GB RAM (it had two free slots), a 250 GB SSD and put a
second-hand GTX 960 in it and it flies. It's even still covered by
Dell's
5 year extended warranty, I just transferred it into my name on-line.

You are the greatest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I figured you to be a self-important and delusional sarcastic SOB. Thanks
for proving me right.

The biggest difference between us is that I likely do far more with PCs
than you do and I don't need to bother Paul multiple times an hour for
weeks on end doing it. Paul provides an invaluable service here, has
helped me more than once and it pains me to see him keep trying to help
you while you say 'thanks' then head off on a new tangent instead of
following his advice.

Anyone with even a general understanding of psychological principles
reading your posts would realise that you're a lonely shut in so desperate
for human interaction that you even reply to yourself. Do you get a little
tingle in your pants every time Paul replies to you? Being validated by
such a knowledgeable and charitable person must really help you to keep
deluding yourself into feeling you're not as insignificant and useless as,
deep down you KNOW that you are.

If you knew half as much as you think you do then you wouldn't still be
here asking for help months after first posting about this junk-drawer
system.

--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed
self-promoting software.

Don't be so modest.

If that cap is an interference fit, it will be
a bitch to get out. You can cut the cap in two,
but you almost need mechanical assist to do that.
(The power of vice grips, the cutting blade of
diagonal cutters.) I know, because I tested this
method too :-( Then when the two wires are all that's
left of the capacitor, you can heat the fillet and

So true. There are many sorts of components and methods of installation
that demand extreme measures. I use Logitech trackballs and use them
_heavily_ but this exposes a shortcoming in the switches they use for the
left and right buttons. I'm pretty good at repairs and have most of the
necessary tools but with these tiny microswitches the only solution is to
crush them, unsolder the remaining pins, clean the holes with a sucker and
wooden toothpick and then finally get around to installing the new one.
I'm getting pretty good at it though and always keep a trackball in
reserve.

The cap in question was damaged. Undamaged caps are flush. Undamaged caps do
not fall away with finger tips.

I've got my soldering iron out to remove traces of capacitor wires.
Monday, I find a 470 uF 16 VDC Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor.