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#1
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new system bootup woes
Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? Any ideas? |
#2
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new system bootup woes
Adam wrote:
Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? If the system powers up to where the power supply fan runs then start looking a the motherboard. Any post codes? Indicator lights on motherboard? Reseat RAM. Check CPU, remove all cards except video (if not using onboard) and see if it posts then. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
#3
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new system bootup woes
On 12/16/2014 10:20 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Adam wrote: Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? If the system powers up to where the power supply fan runs then start looking a the motherboard. Any post codes? Indicator lights on motherboard? Reseat RAM. Check CPU, remove all cards except video (if not using onboard) and see if it posts then. What does your voltmeter say? |
#4
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new system bootup woes
"mike" wrote in message ... On 12/16/2014 10:20 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Adam wrote: Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? If the system powers up to where the power supply fan runs then start looking a the motherboard. Any post codes? Indicator lights on motherboard? Reseat RAM. Check CPU, remove all cards except video (if not using onboard) and see if it posts then. What does your voltmeter say? Oh boy, that's new to me. I'll see if I can find any "how to" links on troubleshooting with a voltmeter. |
#5
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new system bootup woes
Adam wrote:
Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. Oh, that "trouble" since there can only be one. It's a secret trouble. Doesn't sound like an OS problem since the unidentified "trouble" is probably to get it powered on which is before the OS is even loaded by the BIOS. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Not really. PSUs that have crapped out by not being able to handle the load can still spin their own fan(s). Did you notice if the CPU's fan is spinning, too? If using a mechanical HDD, do you hear it spin up on power on? How many HDDs are connected? Tried with just one? Did you populate all mobo RAM slots with matched memory modules? Or did you mix them? They have a warning on their spec page saying "AMD 100 series CPUs support up to DDR3 1066MHz. With ASUS design, this motherboard can support up to DDR3 1333MHz." Did you disconnect all USB devices and then retest that the "trouble" went away? Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? Do you have a separate daughtercard for the video? Or are you using onboard video? If a daughtercard, did you remember to hook up the PSU 4-pin connector to the video card's extra power connector? The mobo has a 24-pin power connector. The PSU may come with a 20+4 connector: 20 pins in one connector with an ancilliary 4-pin connector you add (slide on or rotate and snap into place). Did you use 24 pins from the PSU to the 24-pin power connector on the mobo? Did you connect an 8-pin connector from the PSU to the 8-pin power connector on the mobo? The manual says "Do not forget to connect the 4-pin/8-pin EATX12 V power plug; otherwise, the system will not boot." With modular PSUs, sometimes users hook up only the minimal connects and omit some crucial ones. Do you have 2 high-end PCI-e x16 video cards? If so, Asus recommends a 1000W PSU. |
#6
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new system bootup woes
Adam wrote:
"mike" wrote in message ... On 12/16/2014 10:20 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Adam wrote: Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? If the system powers up to where the power supply fan runs then start looking a the motherboard. Any post codes? Indicator lights on motherboard? Reseat RAM. Check CPU, remove all cards except video (if not using onboard) and see if it posts then. What does your voltmeter say? Oh boy, that's new to me. I'll see if I can find any "how to" links on troubleshooting with a voltmeter. Now you understand why I "bench test" on the kitchen table first, before putting the system in the computer case. You don't absolutely need *any* wiring to the front panel at all, for a bench test. But what I do instead, is keep a push button switch with two connector pins on the end, which slide over the PWR and Ground pin pair. That's for turning the system on. I can also slip a screwdriver tip between those two pins, to bridge them and start the system. That requires a good deal of care and dexterity, and is only practical when the motherboard is sitting on the kitchen table. http://i61.tinypic.com/28bgwf9.gif On the picture there, you can see that header has a "dangerous pair" in the SPKR pin area. Don't bridge that +5V pin if you can possibly manage it, to any adjacent Ground pins. It's another one of those situations where there may be no protective fuse in the path. ******* In the past, some Antecs have had wiring errors in USB or Firewire cables (that's a 2x5 on the motherboard end, leading to a front panel mounted connector). So I would not hook up the front panel I/O wiring at all. On a couple Antec cases here (I have at least three of them), I use the multimeter, set to ohms range, to verify the cable wiring is correct. It's just easier to *not* use Antec front wiring, than be bothered to do that. None of my Antec front USB ports are hooked up, for this reason. I'm too lazy to correct the errors by moving the pins around in the 2x5 end. ******* I take it, OCZ had you do the "unconnected supply" test ? For that one, you bridge PS_ON# to GND on the ATX cable. Bringing the logic level low on PS_ON# is what makes the supply fan spin, and the main supply section to function. On page 37 here, that would be the green PS_ON# wire, to an adjacent black GND wire. Some people recommend connecting a dummy load to the supply, in the form of an old (scratch) hard drive or something that draws a similar small amount of power. http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf ******* This is a simplified model of the ATX supply. There are two power generation circuits, and +5VSB is separate from the rest. AC Input ------+--- +5VSB circuit | +--- +3.3/5.0/12V main section When you switch the supply on at the back, the +5VSB starts to produce power immediately. The fan will not be spinning at this point. The +5VSB provides 2 to 3 amps max, and is used as a supervisory voltage, amongst other uses. The ATX power supply is convection cooled at this point, when removing heat from the +5VSB circuit. Due to the modest capacity of the +5VSB, it doesn't get too warm. When the ATX power supply main cable has PS_ON# and GND brought together, that grounds the pullup resistor on PS_ON#. Normally, with a voltmeter, you'd see 5 volts level on PS_ON#, and it's when that level is grounded that the supply runs. The fan begins to spin, and the main voltages begin to be produced. The motherboard would be starting to POST at this point. The case fans would be spinning. If you attempt to start an ATX supply, and you see the PSU fan "twitch" about a half inch of rotation, that means the supply tried to start, but encountered a serious short circuit (current overload) on the outputs. To protect against burning any cables, the ATX supply has latched off. Normally, you'd need to switch off at the back, wait 30 seconds, switch on again, to make another attempt to start the system. The reason the supply "twitches", is the overcurrent is disabled for the first 35 milliseconds, until the PSU has had a chance to charge the output capacitors, and that allows the fans to receive current for 35 milliseconds. The fan blades can only "twitch" in such a short time frame. If the "serious short" is present, when the overcurrent detection is enabled at 35 milliseconds, the power supply immediately shuts off the main section. (The reason you wait 30 seconds, is to give any inrush limiter time to cool off.) In this diagram, the +5VSB is used to power the control circuits. The motherboard logic "latches" the momentary logic low level from the front panel switch, and drives out a "steady" 0.0V level on PSON#. And that's what is used to control the ATX supply. +5VSB (0.0V level +5VSB | means "run please") | Pullup \_ Pullup Resistor \ Resistor | PS_ON# | PWR X----+---- Motherboard ---- Open -------------------+- ... control / logic Collector (to of main | GND X----+ Driver ATX + PSU | | supply) | section (Front GND GND Panel Switch - normally open, momentarily close to operate) By removing any USB panel header or Firewire panel header wiring from the front panel to the motherboard, you're removing a possible place for electrical shorts to happen. Wiring up the PWR button from the front of the case (two wire twisted pair labeled PWR and GND), gives you enough control to turn the system on and off. ******* On an Asus motherboard, there is a green LED which is wired in such a way as to monitor for +5VSB. If the ATX PSU is supplying +5VSB, and the main PSU cable is wired up, the green LED should be glowing. And the LED should not flicker. It should be a solid level for the entire time that the switch on the back of the ATX supply is in the ON position. Asus provides the LED, to tell you when it is safe to work inside the PC. The LED must be completely extinguished, before you work on RAM DIMMs or pull PCI Express cards, that sort of thing. It takes up to 30 seconds for +5VSB to drain, after the ATX PSU is switched off. Paul |
#7
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new system bootup woes
On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 11:00:55 PM UTC-7, Adam wrote:
Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. OCZ tech support is full of it because the only thing a spinning fan indicates for sure is that the +12V rail is putting out at least 5V to 6V, the minimum voltage that most 12V fans need to spin up. It's possible one of the other positive voltage rails isn't putting out anything, and you typically need all 4 positive voltage rails working right for the computer to run, especially the +5Vstandby line, which is separate from the main +5V. A cheap digital multimeter is great for diagnosing PSU problems and a lot of other things, unlike a PSU tester (the ones without digital readouts but just LEDs are useless). Can you borrow a power supply? Over the past couple of years, I've seen several brand new power supplies not work with motherboards until I plugged and unplugged their connectors several times, maybe due to oxidation or a coating on the contacts so try this, 5-10 times. Have you tried turning on the motherboard directly through the 2 power-on header pins on the motherboard? Do this with the front panel cables disconnected. If that works, then you know something is wrong with the cable wiring. See that the memory and any plug-in cards are seated correctly in their sockets. Also test with just one memory DIMM installed (generally it's better to first test a system with just enough hardware installed to let you see something on the screen -- makes it easier to pinpoint the bad hardware). Do your DIMMs have tall heatsinks that may be pressing against the CPU's heatsink? That can prevent computer operation. Another thing to check is the CPU heatsink because if it's not making firm contact, the motherboard will probably turn off, but usually it will start for a second. Sometimes 1 of the 4 CPU heatsink mounting screws or pins is loose. And some heatsinks have terrible mounting hardware on the bottom of the motherboard that can make it easy to create a short. Sometimes the motherboard shorts to the case, usually at one of the mounting holes, a poorly supported corner, or where there's an extra brass mounting post underneath that doesn't line up with any of the holes in the motherboard. A brass post like that can short out traces or even crush tiny surface mount components and ruin the motherboard. What kind of anti-static precautions did you take? Did you do anything foolish, like wear shoes, socks, or long sleeves? |
#8
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new system bootup woes
VanguardLH wrote:
Do you have 2 high-end PCI-e x16 video cards? If so, Asus recommends a 1000W PSU. When debugging a power problem, at system startup the components don't draw "max power". Even a modest power supply, mistakenly connected to a high power system load, should get you to the BIOS screen. Whereas at one time, video cards had high idle current draw, they've improved a lot. And even a gamer card can run cool when it is idle. If you're using older high end video cards, their power can be a bit obnoxious at idle. ******* Startup condition (T=0, BIOS screen time etc...) : Video card - min power, low clock, 10W each on modern cards Processor - likely to be using one core Disk drive - spin-up current of 12V @ 3A for first ten seconds ******* Booted and idle in desktop (maybe 150W max system-wide): Video card - min power, low clock, 10W each on modern cards Processor - likely to be using approximately one core (12V @ 1.1A typ) Disk drive - motor current stable at 12V @ 0.6A or less ******* Booted and playing 3D game, tainted driver, SLI or Crossfire enabled: Video card - 3D clock rate, gaming power level (200W, high end card) Processor - likely to be using multiple cores (draws estimated TDP power) Disk drive - motor current stable at 12V @ 0.6A or less If the computer was unstable when 3D gaming, that might be a sign the supply size is not correct for the load. Asus offers a PSU calculator, but the numbers are too high. For example, a system with no video card, was rated "350W". http://www.service.asus.com/#!psu-calculator/c1ig3 This one was a bit crazy at one time, but they've refined this since then. At one time, some DIMMs were rated at 25W each, whereas you can use Kingston datasheets to get 2-3W estimates for each. So when they say "most trusted", I really prefer the sites to display their estimate for each component for all to see. http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp The "most trusted" power estimator, was shut down years ago. A shame really. It listed the power number it used for each component, so you could judge for yourself how realistic the estimate would be. For example, it would say my video card was 35W, and if I got out my clamp-on DC ammeter and checked, it was pretty close. That site had obtained power measurements for a number of video cards, from somewhere. So it wasn't using the imaginative numbers provided by the manufacturers either. The video card power numbers were "xbitlabs" quality (but predated the existence of Xbitlabs). And that made it a damn nice power calculator site. But they didn't maintain it, and eventually shut it down. It's a lot of work keeping tools like that running properly. The Asus one for example, should be a lot better, because they have the engineers and technicians to do a good job. Paul |
#9
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new system bootup woes
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 22:00:51 -0800, Adam wrote:
I am having trouble with power to brand new system. So send it back to the shop! |
#10
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new system bootup woes
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 22:00:51 -0800, Adam wrote:
Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? Any ideas? Normally there are some leds on the mainboard giving info about its status. Sometimes this is found in a manual..... Stronger connection??? not likely the problem. Edmund |
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